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Fact Checking Michael Jackson’s Christian Faith, Part 5 of 7: Exposing the Lies of the “Youth Minister” Jason Francia

January 31, 2012

Jason Francia in 2005

Now, unto the highlight of this series, and that is the testimony of Jason Francia! He is the son of Blanca Francia, a former Neverland maid who was fired in 1991, and was later paid $20k dollars by Diane Dimond and Hard Copy to give a “tell all” interview about her time at Neverland in December 1993. She said that she saw MJ showering with young boys, and as a result quit her job, when in reality she was fired for theft!

Jason Francia was interviewed by detectives on November 4th, 1993 and March 24th, 1994 because they were fishing for victims, and they were able to successfully cajole him into making an accusation that MJ tickled him under his shorts on several occasions. He was going to be used by cops to bolster their case, but as we all know MJ was never indicted. In December 1994, Blanca Francia and her lawyers threatened to sue MJ over his alleged molestation, and MJ settled out of court with them before they filed their lawsuit.

Before I start analyzing Jason’s testimony, let’s look at what William Wagener had to say about his chance meeting with Jason before the trial started, beginning at 5:48:

Here is an excerpt from Sneddon’s “PLAINTIFF’S MOTION FOR ADMISSION OF EVIDENCE OF DEFENDANT’S PRIOR SEXUAL OFFENSES” pleading, filed on December 10th, 2004. The purpose of this pleading was to get the court’s permission to call the witnesses who would say they had either been molested by MJ, or had witnessed MJ molesting others.  This is Sneddon’s summary of what Jason would eventually testify:

Jason Francia is 24 years old. His mother is Blanca Francia. They live in Santa Maria. Blanca worked as a personal maid to Michael Jackson for about five years. She was one of the few people allowed to enter Michael Jackson’s bedroom and did so regularly to clean. She was also responsible for cleaning his Havenhurst residence in the San Fernando Valley and his “hideout,” a condominium in west Los Angeles. She often brought Jason with her to Neverland. He was between the ages of seven and eleven when his mother Blanca worked for Michael Jackson.

The defendant often played with Jason, gave him gifts and on some occasions money. Jason remembers three separate incidents of sexual conduct by Michael Jackson with him. The first incident occurred at the “hide-out” in west Los Angeles. Jason said that he and Michael were in a red sleeping bag together and he recalls Jackson tickling him. During this tickling, Jackson touched and tickled him in the area of his genitals. He does not recall if there was skin-to-skin touching, but he recalls that his mother walked in on them, was very upset, and told Jason to get out of the sleeping bag.

The second incident also occurred at the Beverly Hills hide-out. Jason was sitting on Jackson’s lap, watching television, and Jackson began to tickle him. Jason remembered that he was wearing a pair of shorts. He said that Jackson’s hand went down the shorts or up the leg, and touched his testicles. Jason was squirming and laughing and found a $100 bill in his shorts later that day. Jason found this money while walking at the City Walk with his mother and he recalled his mother getting very upset about the money.

The third incident occurred in the alcove/loft of the arcade at Neverland. Jason recalled that there were video games, a pool table, and perhaps even a fireplace in this arcade. He specifically remembered a “Street-Fighter” video game in this arcade. He said he was lying on a couch in a “spooning” position with Jackson (i.e., Jason lying on his side in a curled-up position, with Jackson lying right behind him in the same position) when Jackson began to tickle him again. Jason was wearing a pair of baggy orange shorts, a sleeveless shirt and white briefs. During the tickling, Jackson put his hand up Jason’s shorts, under his briefs and tickled his testicles. Jason said this lasted for more than 10 seconds and he does not remember how or why it stopped.

Thereafter Blanca quit her job as Defendant’s maid. When Jason was 13 years old he was interviewed by detectives who were investigating allegations against defendant involving another boy. No criminal charges were filed as a result of that interview. However, Jason’s lawyers settled a claim on his behalf against Michael Jackson for what he believes to be about two million dollars. Today Jason works as a youth pastor with his church and lives in Arroyo Grande.

Here is my complete summary and analysis Jason Francia’s testimony from April 4th and 5th, 2005, starting with his direct examination by Ron Zonen. In this excerpt, Jason talks about his time as a “youth pastor”:

7 Q. Okay. Let‟s go to the mentoring program.

8 Who do you work for in the mentoring program?

9 A. Pete Taylor. It‟s through a church that I

10 belong to, but yet it‟s still its kind of own

11 identity. It‟s Foursquare Youth Programs. That‟s

12 the official title.

13 Q. And the nature of the work, by “mentoring,”

14 what do you mean?

15 A. I‟m the lead mentor. And the ultimate goal

16 is, let me see, the probation department kind of

17 says these kids need to be mentored. They needed to

18 go through three programs. Sometimes community

19 service or community service, mentoring, or some

20 sort of jobs program or something else. And I‟m one

21 of their steps to get off of probation.

22 So what we try to do is match them up with a

23 mentor, and that‟s my job, to try to match them up

24 with mentors. And I take them out the first and

25 third Saturdays of every month and we try — just

26 hang out with them and show them that there‟s

27 something more to life than crime, or than ditching,

28 or than partying, or than drugs, or than anything 4807

1 else. There‟s more to life. We show them there‟s

2 Frisbee golf. I‟ve showed the guys how to change

3 the oil and change a tire.

4 My wife is helping. And she shows them how

5 to cook, make purses with the girls and —

6 Q. You‟ve been doing this for how long?

7 A. I‟ve been doing this, this exact job, for

8 about six months. This type of work for probably

9 since I was 18.

10 Q. Okay. When you were 18, did you start some

11 kind of an internship program dealing with this?

12 A. Yeah, I have started an internship with

13 Santa Maria Foursquare Church. Was — and was

14 pretty much training to be — to work with junior

15 high, to high school, to college-aged people. And I

16 just — I — I wanted to be trained in that, because

17 I have a passion for that, so I started that. I did

18 that for about two and a half years with Santa Maria

19 Foursquare Church.

20 Q. Did you ever work as a youth pastor?

21 A. Yeah. I did that in 2003 to 2004, from my

22 understanding. I can‟t really remember right now.

23 I‟m kind of nervous, just to let you guys know.

24 Q. That‟s okay. What is a youth pastor?

25 A. Well, I was a youth pastor. That was, I

26 guess, my official title. But I worked with

27 13-year-olds to 25- or 26-year-olds. And pretty

28 much — it‟s kind of like its own little church 4808

1 within a church. And you work with junior high and

2 high schoolers. And then what I try to do is

3 address the collegers in a different format. And

4 then I‟ve had the college students help me with the

5 junior highers and high schoolers. So just talk

6 about ethics, God, morals, and doing good.

7 Q. You‟ve been doing htis consistently since

8 age 18?

9 A. Yeah, pretty much.

10 Q. Tell us which church this is again, please.

11 A. The one I was a youth pastor, I did that

12 through Oceano Foursquare. It was really known as

13 Kings Way a long time ago. But pretty much Oceano

14 Foursquare.

In this excerpt, Zonen asks Jason if he ever slept in MJ’s bedroom, and pay attention to his answer:

18 Q. Did you ever spend the night at Neverland?

19 A. Yes. With — yeah, I remember distinctly,

20 because I think I was hearing bats or something, on

21 the ranch, or something, and I couldn‟t sleep, so —

22 but I was sleeping with my mom, like in the same

23 room, in the same area with my mom, and, yeah. I

24 couldn‟t sleep.

25 Q. Were you ever in Michael Jackson‟s bedroom?

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. On how many occasions?

28 A. Two, I think. Two. I‟m pretty sure. 4816

1 Once — one I know for sure, because we were

2 all laying in the bed watching T.V.

3 Q. And who is “we were all”?

4 A. Michael and a bunch of other kids.

5 Q. Okay. Do you know how many?

6 A. I don‟t. Seven. Six. But I don‟t — I

7 don‟t.

8 Q. Do you know any of the names?

9 A. I‟m really bad at names. Even to this day.

It was very typical for MJ to have people – both children and adults – in his bedroom until the wee hours of the morning, watching TV while lying in his bed. This is something that Debbie Rowe mentioned in this interview from 2002 which was part of MJ’s rebuttal to the Martin Bashir deception, starting at 2:55:

In this excerpt, Jason describes the first time that he was “molested”:

24 Was there ever an occasion that you were

25 with Michael Jackson where something happened that

26 made you feel uncomfortable?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Did that happen more than once? 4817

1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Do you have a recollection of these events?

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. Let‟s begin with the first one. What

5 happened?

6 A. Okay. Well, the first time that I felt

7 uncomfortable with him was in the hideout, which is

8 the place in Encino — not in Encino, I‟m sorry. In

9 Hollywood. And — shoot. I was seven and – I

10 don‟t know, at seven years old, I don‟t think —

11 okay. I may have not felt uncomfortable, but then

12 now I think about it, that shouldn‟t have been done.

13 But I didn‟t feel uncomfortable.

14 Q. What happened?

15 A. I was sitting on his lap, and I was young,

16 and I was small. I‟m still thin. I was even

17 thinner then. Sitting on his lap, watching T.V.,

18 which that‟s normal enough in itself. And then

19 we — I was kind of facing the T.V., and he was

20 facing the T.V. as well, so my back was to his

21 chest. And it was — there was just one chair, and

22 there wasn‟t much furniture in that hideout place.

23 And I was just sitting there watching T.V., and so

24 was he. I think we were watching cartoons. And he

25 just started tickling me, which, cool, shoot, I was

26 a tickle guy. I tickled him back, but still kind of

27 from the back, kind of reaching around.

28 And then we went to the floor, I think, but 4818

1 I can‟t completely remember right now. But we

2 somehow got on the floor, tickling still, because

3 I‟m doing what — these little kid things, you know,

4 when you shimmy back and forth.

5 And then I‟m tickling and he‟s tickling, and

6 I‟m tickling and he‟s tickling, and it eventually

7 moved down to — to — to my little private region

8 when you‟re a little kid. I don‟t know if you want

9 me to call it specifically something, but around my

10 crotch area. And I didn‟t — you know, you‟re

11 seven. I didn‟t think it was wrong. Well, I did.

12 Because he‟s tickling, but I‟m laughing, and I‟m

13 tickling him back, trying to get him to stop, but

14 then I‟m tickling too much. I‟m laughing too much.

15 And eventually it stopped. I don‟t know how.

16 Q. Did he actually make contact with your

17 genital area?

18 A. Not skin to skin, but, yeah. Yeah, he was

19 on my clothes, yeah.

20 Q. Do you know for approximately how long?

21 A. Distinctly I can‟t remember. It was a

22 while, though.

23 Q. By a little while, can you give us a sense

24 of it?

25 A. More than three minutes, less than 20. Less

26 than ten minutes, I think.

27 Q. Okay.

28 A. But a while. It was — it was tickling. It 4819

1 didn‟t end soon. It didn‟t end fast.

2 Q. But the amount of time that his hand was

3 actually in the region of your genitalia?

4 A. I cannot remember.

Here is his description of the second time he was abused:

12 Q. Was there another instance?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. Was that also at the hideout?

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. Tell us what happened, please.

17 A. I was watching cartoons again, and probably

18 in the same room, because I think there was only one

19 room in that whole place.

20 And we somehow — I was somehow — there was

21 a sleeping bag involved. I don‟t know — I think I

22 was on top of it. And I was watching T.V., laying

23 down on the ground, and Michael was pretty much

24 behind me, like spooning me. I don‟t know how we

25 got there. I was like eight, eight and a half. It

26 was a little while after. And again with the

27 tickling. But this time it wasn‟t as long, and I

28 was — well, I‟m sorry. It was longer, but I wasn‟t 4821

1 laughing as much, I guess.

Listen to him describe how long the “abuse” lasted! Look at what he uses as a frame of reference to judge the length of the abuse!

5 Q. Was it — were you aware of it happening

6 while it was happening?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And how long was his hand there?

11 A. Two cartoons‟ worth. A cartoon and a half

12 worth.

13 Q. And you were watching cartoons on television

14 at the time?

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. How long is a cartoon? It‟s been a while

17 since I‟ve seen one.

18 A. It‟s been a while for me, too.

19 Does anybody here watch cartoons?

20 Q. Tell us the best of your recollection. We

21 can‟t let them be witnesses at the moment.

22 A. A “Woody Woodpecker” I guess would last

23 four, five minutes.

24 Q. Okay.

25 A. Five, six minutes.

26 Q. So the contact in the area of your genitalia

27 was at least four or five minutes?

28 A. Yeah. 4827

Ok, now here’s the third and last time he claims he was abused, and notice how he asks for a short break so he can compose himself and cry his crocodile tears!

8 Q. Were there ever any other occasions, whether

9 in Los Angeles or any other occasion or any other

10 location where something happened that made you feel

11 uncomfortable?

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. And where was that?

14 A. At the ranch.

15 Q. Do you remember how old you were?

16 A. Ten and a half, ten. I was older.

17 Q. And you have a recollection of this event?

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. There‟s water there also, if you need

20 anything.

21 A. Oh, I was wondering. I thought it was

22 coffee. I was hoping it wasn‟t.

23 Q. No, it‟s water. And feel free to take some

24 if you need some.

25 A. Okay.

26 Q. You think you were about ten or ten and a

27 half?

28 A. Yeah. 4829

1 Q. It was prior to the time that your mother

2 quit her job there?

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. Did you ever go back to Neverland after your

5 mother quit her job there?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Do you remember where this event took place,

8 where at Neverland?

9 A. What, the event?

10 Q. That made you feel uncomfortable.

11 A. Yeah. It was in the arcade room. There was

12 a loft area.

13 Q. Describe what the arcade is.

14 A. A place where there‟s a bunch of video

15 games, and there was a pool table, and I think there

16 was a fireplace. I think that was up in the loft.

17 I think. That was a long time ago. But, yeah, it‟s

18 Street Fighter, the original one, in there, and

19 pool tables, and a couple of other video games.

20 Q. On what part of the arcade were you at the

21 time this happened?

22 A. I was in the loft.

23 Q. Upstairs?

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. Was anybody else up there with you?

26 A. No.

27 Q. Was Mr. Jackson there?

28 A. Yeah. 4830

1 Q. By “other people,” I mean other people than

2 you and Mr. Jackson.

3 A. It was just him and I.

4 Q. Do you recall approximately what time of day

5 or evening it was?

6 A. No. Nighttime.

7 Q. Was your mother working that day?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Were there ever occasions when you were at

10 Neverland and your mother wasn‟t working?

11 A. Yeah, when we‟d have parties and stuff, but

12 I think she‟d still work, because she‟d always walk

13 around cleaning even though she wasn‟t dressed for

14 it.

15 Q. Were there ever occasions when you were at

16 Neverland and your mother was not there?

17 A. No, she was always there.

18 Q. On this occasion, was your mother in the

19 arcade?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Was she working that day?

22 A. Probably.

23 Q. Do you remember where her assignment would

24 have taken her? Did she go to specific locations?

25 A. In the ranch?

26 Q. Yes.

27 A. At the ranch area. She was cleaning

28 everything. 4831

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. She wasn‟t in the arcade.

3 Q. Okay. And what happened when you were in

4 the arcade.

5 A. In the loft?

6 Q. Yes, please.

7 A. I think I was playing Sega Genesis.

8 Q. Tell us what that is, please.

9 A. It‟s — it‟s a video game. I was just a

10 video-game-playing kid.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. There was a video game. There was a T.V. up

13 there, I believe. It was a really big T.V., and I

14 was playing, and then he started tickling me, and I

15 think there was — there was a couch up there,

16 because we somehow managed to end up on the couch.

17 It took a lot of counseling to get over,

18 just to let you know.

19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;

20 nonresponsive.

21 THE WITNESS: I‟m sorry.

22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Let‟s see if we can restrict

23 our answers just to the questions, if we can. I‟ll

24 ask you some questions about that later.

25 You were on the couch. Do you know if both

26 of you were sitting on the couch?

27 A. Hold on.

28 We were laying down on the couch. 4832

1 Q. Okay. How were you laying down? How were

2 you positioned relative to Mr. Jackson?

3 A. Probably about — no, it was in the spooning

4 position again.

5 Q. Okay. Was he behind you or in front of you?

6 A. Behind me.

7 Q. And then what happened?

8 A. We were tickling — well, he was tickling

9 and I was laughing. And — and — and we — it

10 was — he was — he was tickling me in the….

11 So much happening right now. Can we take a

12 break or something?

13 MR. ZONEN: Can we take just a moment, Your

14 Honor?

15 THE COURT: Okay. Sure.

16 MR. ZONEN: Just a break for a moment or

17 two?

In this excerpt, Jason is asked if he ever told anyone about his abuse at the hands of Michael Jackson:

11 Q. Did you tell anybody about that right

12 afterward?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did you tell your mother, ever?

15 A. No. I don‟t even think to this day she

16 knows.

17 Q. All right. At some point in time this

18 became known to somebody; is that right?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. Who did you tell? Who was the first person

21 you told about it?

22 A. Probably God. But —

23 Q. Let‟s go to number two, then. Who was the

24 second person?

25 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike that comment,

26 Your Honor. Nonresponsive.

27 THE COURT: Well, it‟s responsive.

28 Overruled. Go ahead. 4835

1 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Who else did you —

2 A. Who did I tell? I forgot their names, but

3 there was two detectives. Yeah, I told those two

4 guys.

5 Q. Before or after your mother had quit her

6 position at Neverland?

7 A. She had already quit.

Here is where he describes how the detectives picked him up from school one day and tape recorded their interview with him:

8 Q. All right. At some point in time police

9 came to you and said they wanted to talk to you; is

10 that right?

11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

12 THE WITNESS: This is going to be hard for

13 me to get through. Sorry.

14 THE COURT: Okay. The objection is

15 overruled.

16 You may answer.

17 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Go ahead.

18 A. Yeah, they wanted to come and talk to me.

19 I was 13. I was in eighth grade, I think. Yeah.

20 I — yeah.

21 Q. Around 1993?

22 A. Yeah. It was „93, I think, yeah.

23 Q. Did you know in advance that they wanted to

24 speak with you?

25 A. No. Not until the big day that this

26 crappiness started.

27 Q. Okay. At some point in time, they showed

28 up? 4836

1 A. Yeah. They showed up probably around 4:00,

2 because I had judo practice at, like, 6:00.

3 Q. So it was about — I‟m sorry, you had judo

4 practice afterward?

5 A. Yeah, I had to go to judo practice right

6 after, and I don‟t think I went because I was

7 crying.

8 Q. So you think it was about four o‟clock in

9 the afternoon?

10 A. I think they came around four o‟clock.

11 Q. Do you remember how many people came?

12 A. I think two. But I don‟t remember.

13 Q. Was your mother present during the course of

14 that interview?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you know if that interview was

17 tape-recorded?

18 A. Yeah, it was tape-recorded because I

19 listened to the tapes.

20 Q. You listened to it recently?

21 A. Yeah.

22 Q. Do you know if a transcription had ever been

23 prepared of that interview?

24 A. A trans — yeah, it has been.

25 Q. And did you, in fact, review that

26 transcription as well?

27 A. Yeah. While I was reading it, yeah.

As you can see, he read the transcript of his 1993 police interview before giving his testimony. In this excerpt, he states the names of the two lawyers who represented him in 1994, the fact that he was never deposed in the Jordan Chandler investigation, and how he never filed a lawsuit against MJ because he received a settlement.

14 Q. At some point in time, did you have an

15 interview or were you represented by a private

16 lawyer?

17 A. At some point, yeah, in time I was.

18 Q. Do you remember the name of that lawyer?

19 A. Yeah, Terry — Terry Cannon. And Kris

20 Kallman.

21 Q. There were two lawyers who represented you?

22 A. Yeah.

23 Q. Do you know if — was this after this

24 interview?

25 A. Yes, it was after this interview. It was

26 like two months after this interview, I think.

27 Q. Were you ever called for a deposition?

28 A. I was never called for a deposition. 4841

1 Q. Did you ever know a young man by the name of

2 Jordan Chandler, or Jordie Chandler?

3 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; relevance.

4 THE WITNESS: Did I —

5 MR. MESEREAU: Relevance; foundation; move

6 to strike.

7 THE COURT: Overruled.

8 You may answer.

9 THE WITNESS: Did I ever meet him?

10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Yes.

11 A. I probably did, but I — I don‟t remember

12 names. I‟m really bad with names. And I‟m not —

13 Q. Do you know if you were being prepared at

14 any time to give a deposition in a case involving

15 Mr. Chandler?

16 A. No. What — prepared by — I don‟t know

17 what you mean by “prepared.”

18 Q. Did your attorneys ever talk to you about

19 the possibility of your going in and giving a

20 deposition?

21 A. No. I don‟t think so. I don‟t remember.

22 Q. At some point in time, was there a

23 settlement of some kind of a case involving you and

24 Mr. Jackson? We‟re not going to get into the

25 specifics of the amounts, but was there a

26 settlement?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Do you know if a lawsuit was ever actually 4842

1 filed?

2 A. No. I don‟t think so, no. Because there

3 was a settlement, so there was no lawsuit.

Here is Jason’s description of the intense 5 years of “counseling” that he needed to overcome his “traumatic” experiences! (From age 13 to 18!)

11 Q. Okay. Was — did you go into counseling at

12 this time?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. And —

15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; relevance.

16 THE WITNESS: Oh, I‟m sorry.

17 MR. ZONEN: I think it‟s relevant.

18 MR. MESEREAU: And leading.

19 THE COURT: I‟ll allow the question. The

20 question and answer was, “Yes.”

21 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: For what period of time did

22 you stay in counseling?

23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Relevance; 352.

24 MR. ZONEN: I believe it‟s appropriate under

25 People vs. Bledsoe and Shirley.

26 THE COURT: Go ahead. I‟ll allow the

27 question.

28 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: For what period of time did 4843

1 you stay in counseling?

2 A. Shoot, like a week after the sheriffs

3 interviewing me, or police, or whoever they were.

4 And —

5 Q. That‟s when it started?

6 A. Till I was 18, yeah.

7 Q. Till you were 18?

8 A. Yeah.

That’s the end of his direct examination; now unto the cross examination by Mesereau! This is when it gets really entertaining! You’re about to see why the some of the jurors laughed at him during their break!

First, Mesereau asks Jason when did he learn that his mother Blanca was paid $20k for her Hard Copy interview, and he didn’t know about it until two days prior to testifying!

28 Q. Okay. Now, the prosecutor mentioned the 4846

1 fact that your mother, at one point many years ago,

2 went on the television show Hard Copy, right?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And at some point you learned about that,

5 right?

6 A. At some point I learned about what?

7 Q. Your mom going on the television show Hard

8 Copy?

9 A. At some point I learned about it, yes.

10 Q. Okay. And at some point you learned that

11 she took $20,000 to go on the T.V. show Hard Copy,

12 correct?

13 A. No.

14 Q. You don‟t know anything about that?

15 A. I do not.

16 Q. You‟ve never heard that to date?

17 A. I have heard of it today.

18 Q. When did you first learn that your mother

19 have gone on the T.V. show Hard Copy and accepted

20 $20,000?

21 A. Right now. Well, it may actually — two

22 days ago, I think.

Here’s where he is asked when he told his lawyers about being molested by MJ, and he says he doesn’t think he did!

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When did you first, if you

10 remember, talk to a lawyer about anything Mr.

11 Jackson allegedly did?

12 A. What he — when did I tell somebody or tell

13 the lawyer? Repeat that.

14 Q. Yeah, when did you first meet a lawyer to

15 talk about your claim regarding Mr. Jackson‟s

16 behavior?

17 A. I don‟t remember.

18 Q. Do you know approximately when it was?

19 A. I think the only — I don‟t think I ever

20 told Terry or Kris if he molested me or not.

Here is where he has trouble remembering the two lawyers he mentioned under direct examination with Zonen, and then he magically remembers telling them of his abuse!

21 Q. Okay. Now, Terry is who?

22 A. Terry?

23 Q. Terry is the lawyer?

24 A. Terry is a lawyer.

25 Q. That‟s Terry Cannon, correct?

26 A. Correct.

27 Q. And Kris is who?

28 A. Kris — I forgot his last name. He‟s a 4850

1 lawyer.

2 Q. You mentioned him in response to the

3 prosecutor‟s questions. Didn‟t you say Kris was a

4 lawyer?

5 A. I don‟t remember the prosecutor‟s questions.

6 Q. Do you have a lawyer named Kris?

7 A. Right now? No.

8 Q. Have you ever had a lawyer named Kris?

9 A. I believe so.

10 Q. And do you know Kris‟s last name?

11 A. That‟s what I just said. I don‟t remember.

12 Q. Okay. Now, did I hear you just say you

13 never told either lawyer that you had been molested?

14 A. I don‟t — I‟m sorry?

15 Q. Did I hear you just say that you never told

16 either lawyer you‟d been molested?

17 A. I said I didn‟t know. That‟s what I said.

18 Q. You told the lawyers you didn‟t know?

19 A. No, I told you I didn‟t know.

20 Q. You told me you didn‟t know whether or not

21 you had told any lawyer you‟d been molested, right?

22 A. Not any lawyer.

23 Q. Okay. I‟m not understanding you.

24 A. I‟m not understanding you either.

25 Q. Let me rephrase the question.

26 A. Okay.

27 Q. Did you ever tell Attorney Terry Cannon

28 you‟d been molested? 4851

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And did you ever tell Attorney Kris you‟d

3 been molested?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Approximately when did you do that?

6 A. I don‟t remember. I was young.

7 Q. Do you know approximately what year it would

8 have been?

9 A. I‟d go with „94 or „93 or „95.

In this excerpt, he admits that he told his mother Blanca about being molested at age 14 or 15, while he was in “counseling”, and admits that he spoke too quickly when he denied ever telling her under Zonen’s direct examination:

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling the jury

24 that at some point — excuse me. Let me start

25 again.

26 As of today, you‟re telling this jury you‟ve

27 never told your mother what you claim Mr. Jackson

28 did to you, right? 4852

1 A. I believe in counseling. I never told her

2 specifics on — that I was molested, but I did in

3 counseling tell her that I was molested.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. But it was in — shoot. It was a crying

6 time for —

7 Q. Okay. I‟m not asking you about the details.

8 Just answer my questions.

9 A. It was just hard for me to remember because

10 I was crying.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. So — I was young, and I was 14 or 15.

13 Q. So when you told the jury earlier that you

14 never told your mother about this, that wasn‟t true,

15 right?

16 A. I‟m sorry, I probably spoke quickly.

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Let me rephrase it.

28 When you told the jury, in response to the 4853

1 prosecutor‟s questions, that you had never told your

2 mother you were molested, that wasn‟t true, right?

3 A. I was mistaken.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. Okay. In fact, you had told your mother

7 that you were molested, right?

8 A. Yeah, I must have misunderstood his question

9 with the — with the details of it. I never told my

10 mom that I was molested three times by Michael

11 Jackson. My mom, I don‟t even think to this day,

12 knows that I was molested three times and the

13 specifics of it. If she does, then she does, and

14 that sucks.

In this excerpt, Jason says he didn’t tell his mom about his abuse before she did Hard Copy, and when he describes how sheriffs just “came one day and surprised him” at school, the jury laughs, and is scolded by Judge Melville. (Don’t confuse this incident with the other incident of them laughing directly at Jason’s testimony during a court break.)

23 Q. Are you telling the jury that before your

24 mother went on Hard Copy, you never discussed what

25 you claim Mr. Jackson did to you with your mother?

26 A. Yeah, I‟m pretty sure that I never told my

27 mom that he molested me before Hard Copy.

28 Q. And before sheriffs came to talk to you for 4854

1 the first time, had you told anyone that you had

2 been molested by Michael Jackson?

3 A. I don‟t think so, no.

4 Q. They just kind of came one day and surprised

5 you?

6 (Laughter.)

7 A. Yeah.

8 THE COURT: Just a moment, Counsel.

9 (To the audience) I‟m not going to put up

10 with that.

11 THE WITNESS: Thanks.

12 THE COURT: If there‟s any laughing again,

13 I‟ll remove people from the courtroom.

14 Go ahead, Counsel.

Let’s stop for a moment and dwell on this important fact: Jason and Blanca Francia didn’t go to the police with their accusations; the police “just kind of came one day and surprised” Jason because they were looking for any “victims” that would bolster their case against MJ! And as you’ll see later on, they bullied Jason into making a false confession!

A few days before testifying, Jason met with prosecutors to review a transcript of his November 1993 interview with police:

18 Q. You have reviewed the tape and transcript of

19 your first interview with the sheriffs, correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And when did you review that interview?

22 A. Like when did I listen to the tapes again?

23 Is that what you‟re asking?

24 Q. Yes.

25 A. Sunday.

26 Q. And how did you get the tape?

27 A. Chris – I don‟t know his last name – gave

28 them to me. 4855

1 Q. Is that the lawyer?

2 A. No. He‟s not a lawyer, I don‟t think.

3 Q. Is he a sheriff?

4 A. It‟s a tall man.

5 Q. Is he a sheriff?

6 A. I don‟t know. I believe so.

7 Q. How did you run into him?

8 A. I met him when I met all these gentlemen.

9 Q. The prosecutors?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. Okay. So Chris was with the prosecutors

12 when you met them last, right?

13 A. I‟m sorry?

14 Q. Chris was with the prosecutors when you

15 spoke to the prosecutors, correct?

16 A. Yes.

It seems Zonen tried to prepare Jason for his testimony by having him review the transcript of his 1993 interview with Detectives Russell Birchim and Vince Neglia!

9 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, did someone tell you to

10 review that transcript before you testified?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who told you to review that transcript

13 before you testified?

14 A. I‟m under some pressure. Mark — it‟s not

15 Mark. It‟s Russ. I‟m so bad with names.

16 Q. Is it Prosecutor Zonen, who just asked you

17 questions?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. Okay. Did he tell you you‟d be asked

20 questions about that?

21 A. About —

22 Q. What you said in that interview in 1993?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. Did he tell you to study it carefully

25 and make sure you knew what you said and didn‟t say,

26 right?

27 A. Actually, he didn‟t say, “Study it

28 carefully.” 4859

1 Q. Did he tell you to read it?

2 A. He told me to review it.

Here’s where it starts getting hysterical! Jason told police in 1993 that he “blacked out” during his abuse!

16 Q. In that interview, you told the police you

17 were sitting on Mr. Jackson‟s lap, correct?

18 A. In the „93 11 — is that this one that

19 you‟re reviewing right now?

20 Q. Yes.

21 A. The one you showed me? Yes.

22 Q. Yes. And you told them that at one point,

23 he started tickling you and you started tickling

24 him, right?

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. And then you told the police, “I have this

27 blackout. I can‟t remember anything else,” right?

28 A. Yeah. I — I tried to black everything out. 4861

1 Q. I understand. But I just want to go forward

2 and ask you some questions about it.

3 A. Oh, okay.

4 Q. But on that particular date, you told the

5 police that you had blacked everything out after you

6 and Mr. Jackson started tickling, right, tickling

7 each other, correct?

8 A. Yeah.

Ok, now prepare to roll on the floor and start laughing! Jason told police that he “has to work on that” when he was asked by police to explain what happened! What on earth would he have to “work on” if he was telling the truth?

14 Q. Well, you told the police you had a blackout

15 and didn‟t remember anything after — after you and

16 Mr. Jackson were tickling each other, right?

17 A. I blocked it out. I didn‟t blank it out.

18 I just didn‟t never want to repeat that stuff again.

19 Q. Okay. Do you remember, in one of your

20 police interviews, the police telling you, “This is

21 what happened, right?” And you said, “Well, I‟ll

22 have to work on that”? Do you remember using words

23 like that?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Okay. Have you looked at the transcripts of

26 both your police interviews?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Okay. Just looked at the one in „93? 4863

1 A. I believe so.

In this excerpt, Mesereau reminds Jason of what he initially told police, which was a flat out denial of any abuse at the hands of MJ! Jason said that he said that to police because he was “fighting with everything he had”, which indicates that they were harassing him into a confession!

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Early in your interviews,

12 you denied being touched in your private areas,

13 didn‟t you?

14 A. Yeah. I was scared.

15 Q. They were pretty long interviews, weren‟t

16 they?

17 A. I believe so. Yeah, they were. They were

18 long in my time. To a kid, an hour‟s a long time.

19 Q. Do you remember in your first police

20 interview in 1993 telling the police, “I‟ll just say

21 this out flat. I don‟t remember him trying anything

22 with me except for the tickling”? Do you remember

23 that?

24 A. Do I remember saying that?

25 Q. Yes.

26 A. No. But I‟ve heard that on the voice.

27 Yeah, I was fighting them with everything I had.

In this excerpt, Mesereau reads to Jason his quotes from 1993 about the tickling games that he and MJ played on each other, and notice how he said they tickled each other! Jason also admits to denying any molestation early in the interview, but then admitting it after the police “twisted his arm” for it!

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling

27 the police in that interview, “We started tickling

28 each other and my mom just grabbed me and, „Let‟s 4867

1 go‟”?

2 A. I don‟t remember.

3 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

4 show you a page of it?

5 A. Probably would.

6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

7 THE COURT: You may.

8 MR. ZONEN: What page?

9 MR. MESEREAU: It would be page 26.

10 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

11 THE WITNESS: Okay. I see that.

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

13 look at that? Does it refresh your recollection

14 about what you told the police in that interview?

15 A. No, not really.

16 Q. Well, on a number of occasions, you told

17 them, “We tickled each other and then I left,”

18 didn‟t you, words to that effect?

19 A. Yeah. Again, I was fighting with everything

20 I had.

21 Q. I‟m not asking you what you were doing. I‟m

22 just asking if that‟s true, okay? On a number of

23 occasions, you said, “We just tickled each other and

24 then I left,” right?

25 A. Okay.

26 Q. Is that correct?

27 A. Yes. And then I also told them that he

28 molested me. 4868

1 Q. On many occasions in that interview you

2 denied being molested, didn‟t you?

3 A. Yeah, at first.

4 Q. And the police kept leaning on you to admit

5 you had been molested, true?

6 A. It wasn‟t like a twisting the arm. It

7 was — I was again fighting. I didn‟t want to be

8 embarrassed at school. I didn‟t want to be

9 embarrassed anywhere. I was 13.

10 Q. So you were lying to the police?

11 A. Yeah. I was at first.

Jason also denied that MJ was “touchy-feely”:

20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember in that

21 interview being asked, “Is Mr. Jackson

22 touchy-feely?” And you said, “I don‟t remember.

23 I distinctly don‟t remember”?

24 A. I don‟t remember that interview.

25 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

26 you that page?

27 A. If you show me the page, I‟m still not going

28 to remember. 4869

1 Q. Well, you‟ve —

2 A. I could — if it says on the transcript,

3 then I‟ll say, okay, I said it when I was younger.

4 But I don‟t remember right now.

Here Jason admits that he told police it was “fun” being tickled by MJ!

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Remember telling the

25 police you just remember the tickling; it was fun?

26 A. It was fun to be tickled, to laugh. That‟s

27 fun.

28 Q. Okay. That‟s what you told the police in 4870

1 that interview, correct?

2 A. What I‟m telling you right now is that it‟s

3 fun to laugh. I don‟t know what I told them.

4 Q. Might it refresh your recollection if I just

5 show you a page of transcript?

6 A. I‟ll agree with it if it says it on there,

7 but I — to remember that all right now, I don‟t

8 remember.

Here is where Mesereau asks Jason about the specifics of the settlement money that he extorted out of MJ, which he never discussed with his mother!

19 Q. At some point you and your mother settled a

20 case with Mr. Jackson, correct?

21 A. I don‟t remember signing papers.

22 Q. You‟re how old today?

23 A. I‟m 24.

24 Q. And you‟re telling the jury you don‟t know

25 whether you and your mother ever reached a financial

26 settlement with Mr. Jackson?

27 A. There was a financial settlement.

28 Q. Okay. And when did you learn about that? 4872

1 A. I believe I was 17.

2 Q. Do you remember signing documents in that?

3 A. At 17, I don‟t remember.

4 Q. Okay. Do you remember looking at that

5 agreement?

6 A. At 17, I did not look at that agreement.

7 Q. And now, at 17, you knew that your mother

8 had already gone on television attacking Mr.

9 Jackson, right?

10 A. When she was on Hard Copy, is that what

11 you‟re talking about?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. Yes. At 17, I heard she had already been on

14 Hard Copy.

15 Q. And at some point she met with Attorney

16 Larry Feldman, did she not?

17 A. I don‟t know.

18 Q. Okay. But at 17, you certainly knew that

19 your mother had hired attorneys who were threatening

20 to sue Mr. Jackson if they didn‟t get some money,

21 right?

22 A. No, I do not.

23 Q. Didn‟t know anything about that at 17?

24 A. Call me a stupid kid. I didn‟t know.

25 Q. Okay. But you certainly learned about it at

26 some point?

27 A. Yeah. I learned about it at some point.

28 Q. Which did you learn about the fact that your 4873

1 lawyers were threatening to go public and sue Mr.

2 Jackson unless you and your mother got money?

3 A. All of that stuff I don‟t know about. I

4 knew that there was a settlement. I don‟t know how

5 they fought, or what they argued about, or what they

6 talked about.

7 Q. You‟ve never discussed it with your mom?

8 A. About — I have never discussed what, the

9 settlement?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. Yes, I have.

12 Q. Have you ever discussed how the settlement

13 came about with your mom?

14 A. No.

This is where he admits that he isn’t sure if he ever signed a settlement with MJ, and that he and his mom never talked about her settlement because of their “weird” relationship!

10 Q. At the age of 24, and as you sit here today,

11 you don‟t know if you ever signed a settlement

12 document with Mr. Jackson?

13 A. That is correct.

14 Q. As you sit here today, at the age of 24, do

15 you know if your mother ever signed a settlement

16 document with Mr. Jackson?

17 A. I think she did.

18 Q. Do you know if any money has come your way

19 through a settlement with Mr. Jackson?

20 A. Money has, yes.

21 Q. Okay. And when did you first learn about

22 that?

23 A. I answered that I thought. At 17.

24 Q. Okay. And you‟ve had many discussions with

25 your mom about that, right?

26 A. No. We — me and my mom have a weird

27 relationship. Well, not a weird relationship. We

28 just don‟t talk about much stuff. 4875

Here is where Mesereau grills Jason about the aggressive interrogation tactics of the police, and Jason once again admits he was fighting them, and he told them he wasn’t gay:

1 Q. Okay. Do you remember constantly telling

2 the people who interviewed you in 1993 that you

3 didn‟t remember Mr. Jackson doing anything improper?

4 A. I don‟t remember now, but I — in listening

5 to the tapes, I remember when I was — at first I

6 was denying everything.

7 Q. You‟ve told the police that he tickled you,

8 you tickled him, you both laughed, and then you went

9 home, right, early in the interview?

10
A. I think I told him that I blacked it out

11 or — yeah.

12 Q. And you told the police at one point as they

13 tried to get you to say he had molested you, you

14 said, “If I don‟t remember, I don‟t remember,”

15 right?

16 A. Yeah.

17 Q. The police kept trying to tell you to say

18 that Mr. Jackson put his hands somewhere that was

19 improper, right?

20 A. No, they didn‟t.

21 Q. Do you remember these long paragraph

22 questions where they‟d say, essentially, “Admit to

23 us he did something improper”?

24 A. They said, “If he did something, then tell

25 us.” That‟s what I remember. You could give me

26 that, and I‟ll read it.

27 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

28 you one of the paragraph questions they asked you? 4876

1 A. Well, this is — I‟m telling you what I

2 remember. It‟s not going to change my memory.

3 Q. It‟s not going to change your memory to look

4 at the transcript?

5 A. No. What I remember is them telling me, “If

6 he did something, then tell us.” And I was, “No,

7 I‟m not gay.” I was fighting it again.

8 Q. You repeatedly told them, “I have nothing to

9 tell you. I don‟t remember anything,” right?

10 A. I‟m sorry?

11 Q. You repeatedly told them you had nothing to

12 tell them because you didn‟t remember anything

13 improper?

14 A. In the very beginning, yeah.

At this point, Mesereau and Jason are going back and forth, and out of frustration Mesereau asks Judge Melville to instruct Jason to answer his questions!

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember anything

7 that happened after you went to the floor during the

8 first time you say you were improperly touched?

9 A. Isn‟t that the same question that you just

10 asked?

11 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, could the witness

12 be instructed to respond?

13 MR. ZONEN: I‟m not certain as to the —

14 THE COURT: Just a moment.

15 (To the witness) The problem we have is you

16 don‟t get to object to his questions. If the

17 District Attorney wants to object, he can. If the

18 District Attorney doesn‟t object, then you just

19 answer the question.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay.

Mesereau catches him in another lie in this exchange where he forces Jason to admit that, once again, he initially denied by abused by MJ!

9 Q. In your interview in 1993, the police asked

10 you if Mr. Jackson rubbed your penis, and you said,

11 “No,” correct?

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. Right?

14 A. In the beginning, yeah.

15 Q. Well, pretty late in the interview, wasn‟t

16 it?

17 A. I have no clue.

18 Q. You said, “It was a tickling. He didn‟t rub

19 me there,” correct?

20 A. Oh. Okay. If we‟re going that —

21 Q. Is that right?

22 A. Yeah, he was playing with my stuff, not

23 rubbing it. In a stroking manner.

24 Q. I know the point you‟re trying to make to

25 the jury, but I‟m just asking you the facts, okay?

26 MR. ZONEN: I think that‟s argumentative.

27 THE COURT: Sustained.

28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You told the police that, 4880

1 “He never rubbed me there. It was just a tickling,”

2 correct?

3 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

4 THE COURT: Overruled.

5 You may answer.

6 THE WITNESS: One more time.

7 THE COURT: I‟ll have the court reporter….

8 (Record read.)

9 THE WITNESS: I don‟t remember.

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

11 recollection if I show you a transcript?

12 A. I don‟t remember. I‟ll say I don‟t

13 remember, but I‟ll agree with what the transcript

14 says.

15 Q. Okay. Well, I‟m not trying to put words in

16 your mouth. Would you like to look at it?

17 A. Okay.

18 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

19 THE COURT: All right.

20 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

21 MR. MESEREAU: 45.

22 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

23 THE WITNESS: Okay.

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

25 look at that transcript?

26 A. I did.

27 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

28 you told the police in that interview? 4881

1 A. No. But in reading it, it said, “Well,

2 yeah” in the very beginning of that sentence.

Jason claims that he was first molested at age 7, then again at age 8, and the last time he was 10, which means these tickling games took place in 1987, 88, and 90.

1 Q. Okay. So let me just, for the record, get

2 your ages each time. The first time you were around

3 seven, right?

4 A. Sounds about right. Seven, seven and a

5 half.

6 Q. The next time you were around eight?

7 A. Eight, eight and a half, or nine. Yeah.

8 Q. And the third time you‟re how old, do you

9 think?

10 A. Ten, ten and a half.

Here is where Jason admits that Sneddon was at his first counseling session!

24 Q. You said that you‟ve done some therapy,

25 right?

26 A. That I‟ve gone through counseling, yeah.

27 Q. Yes. And without going into what you said,

28 because that‟s confidential — 4887

1 A. Okay.

2 Q. — have you done anything, exercises or

3 anything, to try and refresh your memory about what

4 happened in „87 or „88?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Okay. And has any representative of the

7 police department been involved in any of your

8 counseling sessions?

9 A. No, I don‟t think so. Well, there was the

10 one time that the — that I first met Mr. Sneddon, I

11 think that‟s his name. And it wasn‟t a counseling

12 session. But Mike Craft, which was my counselor,

13 was there.

14 Q. Was there with Mr. Sneddon present?

15 A. I think he was there, but I was 13.

16 Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, was Mr.

17 Sneddon talking to your counselor?

18 A. I don‟t know.

19 Q. Okay. This is 12 years ago, approximately?

20 A. In „93.

21 Q. Okay. Okay.

22 A. Or „94.

23 Q. Okay. But you don‟t know what your

24 counselor or Mr. Sneddon said to each other, right?

25 You wouldn‟t know?

26 A. I wouldn‟t know.

27 Q. Okay. Do you know how long Mr. Sneddon and

28 your counselor met? 4888

1 MR. ZONEN: Objection; assumes facts not in

2 evidence, that they met.

3 THE COURT: Overruled.

4 You may answer.

5 THE WITNESS: I don‟t even know if they met.

6 I don‟t even — well, they had to have met because

7 they were in the same room, if they were in the same

8 room. But I don‟t know.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know where they

10 were in the same room?

11 A. Yeah, when they were in front of me.

12 Q. Do you know where that room was?

13 A. Yeah, it was in where I got my counseling.

14 It was my counselor‟s office.

15 Q. So Mr. Sneddon came to your counselor‟s

16 office, correct?

17 A. That‟s what it — I‟m telling you this,

18
because I think I remember meeting him there.

19 Q. Okay. Do you know if your counselor‟s been

20 in touch with Mr. Sneddon?

21 A. I don‟t.

22 Q. Do you know if he‟s spoken to Mr. Sneddon at

23 any time other than that day?

24 A. I don‟t.

Here’s another memory lapse from Jason! He describes not remembering that he told police that he didn’t know if MJ touched him in his arcade! This is also one of the most important excerpts of his testimony, because he admits that the police were “pushy” with him, and he was trying to tell them what they wanted to hear so that he could get out of there! This excerpt concludes the first of two days of testimony.

15 Q. And in that 1993 interview, when it came to

16 talking about what happened at the arcade, you

17 didn‟t know if he‟d really touched you improperly,

18 right?

19 A. I knew.

20 Q. Well, you kept responding, “I don‟t know,”

21 and then you‟d say, “If he really did touch, it was

22 in the arcade”?

23 A. No —

24 Q. And you were asked, “Do you think he did

25 it?” And you said, “I don‟t know”?

26 A. I knew.

27 Q. But you told the police you didn‟t know,

28 correct? 4893

1 A. I don‟t remember. If you bring that thing

2 to me again, I‟m going to — yes.

3 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look

4 at it?

5 A. Yes, bring it over.

6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 THE WITNESS: You should just drop one off.

9 Okay.

10 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

11 MR. MESEREAU: That would be 57 and 58.

12 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

13 THE WITNESS: Okay.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

15 look at those pages?

16 A. I did.

17 Q. Does looking at those pages refresh your

18 recollection about what you have told the police —

19 A. No.

20 Q. — in „93?

21 A. I was 13. Eleven years ago.

22 Q. You weren‟t even sure you were tickled at

23 all. Remember that?

24 A. I don‟t remember that I — I knew.

25 Q. Remember telling the police, “You guys are

26 pushy”?

27 A. Yeah. I remember telling the police that.

28 Q. Okay. And after they kept pushing you, you 4894

1 finally said, “You know, I think he did tickle me,”

2 right?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Do you remember that? Do you remember at

5 first saying you didn‟t know, and then after —

6 A. Yeah, I remember saying at first, “I don‟t

7 know.”

8 Q. And after telling the police, “You guys are

9 pushy,” you eventually finally said, “Yes, he

10 tickled me,” right?

11 A. I believe that‟s how it went.

12 Q. Okay. You kind of went back and forth

13 during the interview, didn‟t you? One second you‟d

14 say, “He tickled me,” and the next second you‟d say

15 you‟re not sure, right?

16 A. I was trying to figure out how to get out of

17 there.

18 Q. I understand. And you remember exactly how

19 you felt in 1993 during the interview, right?

20 A. The feeling of, yeah, crying and crappiness.

21 Q. Okay. Do you remember the police kept

22 trying to get you to say he‟s a molester?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

25 you what one officer said to you about that?

26 A. Bring it over.

27 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

28 MR. ZONEN: Perhaps the witness could 4895

1 indicate whether it would refresh his recollection.

2 THE WITNESS: It wouldn‟t.

3 THE COURT: When he said “Bring it over,”

4 that sort of means like he‟ll see if it refreshes

5 his recollection.

6 THE WITNESS: Okay.

7 THE COURT: It‟s a shortcut. Go ahead.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: We‟re down to the last seconds

10 here. Run.

11 (Laughter.)

12 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

13 MR. MESEREAU: 60.

14 MR. ZONEN: What line, please? It‟s not

15 numbered. Never mind.

16 MR. MESEREAU: Towards the bottom. Towards

17 the bottom.

18 THE WITNESS: Okay.

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You‟re 13 years old.

20 You‟re sitting there, and one officer said to you —

21 THE COURT: Wait a minute now. Are you going

22 to ask him if it refreshes his memory?

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

24 look at that transcript? Does it refresh your

25 recollection that an officer looked at you said —

26 THE COURT: Just a moment, Counsel.

27 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

28 THE COURT: He said, no, it didn‟t refresh 4896

1 his recollection.

2 All right. This is the end of the day.

3 (Laughter.)

4 See you tomorrow.

5 THE COURT: Go to bed one hour early.

6 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)

As you can see from that exchange, the police were trying to coerce Jason into making a false confession, and they succeeded! This was the M.O. of the police department in 1993 as they searched for anyone that they could use to corroborate Jordan’s lies. Another example of someone who was bullied during his interrogation (but did NOT give in and make a false accusation) is actor Corey Feldman! The audiotape of his 1993 police interview was leaked during the trial, and in it you can clearly hear the police badgering Corey about his relationship with MJ. But what’s most disturbing and frightening is the fact that he Corey really was molested, and he names his abuser, but the police IGNORE HIM!

Notice that Corey mentions how MJ slept on a cot while he was in the bed, and that MJ prayed with him before going to sleep!

Here is an interview from last year where Feldman further discusses child abuse in Hollywood, and the role it played in the death of his friend, fellow child actor Corey Haim:

Here is his testimony from April 5th, 2005. Mesereau starts by asking him if he discussed his testimony with anyone, and notice the prosecutors said he did a “good job”, and that he asked his pastor to pray for him!

16 Q. Mr. Francia, we were discussing yesterday

17 your first interview with two police detectives

18 which took place on November 3rd, 1993, okay?

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. That‟s where we left off.

21 Now, did you discuss your testimony

22 yesterday with anyone after you left the courthouse?

23 A. Yeah.

24 Q. Who did you discuss it with?

25 A. My wife.

26 Q. Anyone else?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Did you discuss it with any prosecutor? 4902

1 A. No, I was kind of nervous. I said, “How‟d

2 it go?” And they smiled and they said, “It went

3 well.”

4 Q. And which prosecutor told you that?

5 A. I can‟t specifically remember, but it was

6 one of them.

7 Q. Okay. Did you discuss anything else with

8 one of them?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you talk with any sheriff about your

11 testimony?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Were you on the phone last night with anyone

14 about your testimony?

15 A. No. I did tell my pastor this morning that

16 I was on the stand, and if he could pray for me.

17 But other than that, that was it.

18 Q. Anyone else?

19 A. Nope.

Here Jason is asked about the true reasons why MJ gave him money! MJ would pay him money for reading books and getting A’s! Jason said he didn’t remember saying it back then, but did remember “saying it on the tape”. Talk about a contradiction, eh?

20 Q. Okay. Now, yesterday you told the jury that

21 Mr. Jackson had given you some money, correct?

22 A. Right.

23 Q. And you told them he had given you

24 hundred-dollar bills, right?

25 A. Right.

26 Q. Isn‟t it true that when you were originally

27 interviewed by the police, you told them that Mr.

28 Jackson would give you money each time you read a 4903

1 book?

2 A. Yeah, he also said that, as well. Yeah,

3 he‟d give me $20, I think it was.

4 Q. And you told the police that you remember

5 him having a room full of books, and you said every

6 time you complete a book, he‟ll pay you some money,

7 right?

8 A. I don‟t remember that, but I remember

9 listening to it on the tape.

10 Q. But that was your voice on the tape,

11 correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. You also told the police that Mr.

14 Jackson told you one time that if you got A‟s in

15 school, he would also pay you every time you got an

16 A, correct?

17 A. Yes. That is correct. I remember — I

18 don‟t remember him saying that, but I remember it on

19 the tape.

20 Q. And that was your voice on the tape?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. Telling it to the police, correct?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. Okay. When you met with the prosecutors

25 before you testified, did anyone tell you not to

26 mention that when you talked about money?

27 A. No.

28 Q. Okay. You just forgot? 4904

1 A. I‟m sorry?

2 Q. You just forgot yesterday?

3 MR. ZONEN: Objection; argumentative.

4 THE COURT: Overruled.

5 You may answer.

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you were responding

7 the prosecutor‟s questions —

8 THE COURT: Wait. He has a question pending.

9 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, I‟m sorry.

10 THE COURT: I overruled the objection.

11 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question?

12 THE COURT: The question was, “You just

13 forgot yesterday?”

14 THE WITNESS: I have no idea what you‟re

15 referring to. I just forgot about what?

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: About Mr. Jackson paying

17 you money for, one, reading a book —

18 A. No —

19 Q. — and, two, getting A‟s.

20 A. I didn‟t remember that, but I remember

21 saying that on the tape.

Jason is once again questioned by Mesereau about the bullying tactics of the police, and for him to want to hit the police in the head is indicative of his level of frustration with them!

20 Q. Do you remember stating in that interview,

21 “They made me come out with a lot more stuff I

22 didn‟t want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to

23 get up and hit them in the head”? Do you remember

24 that?

25 A. No.

26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

27 you the transcript of that?

28 A. Probably not. But you can show it to me 4908

1 anyway.

2 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

3 THE COURT: Yes.

4 MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

5 MR. MESEREAU: 30.

6 THE WITNESS: Okay.

7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

8 look at that page of the transcript?

9 A. I have.

10 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

11 you‟ve said?

12 A. No, it does not.

13 Q. Do you remember anything you said in that

14 interview at the moment?

15 A. Not really.

In December 2004, Jason met with his lawyer and prosecutors, and ironically he requested that the interview not be recorded! But it was recorded anyway.

11 Q. Do you remember when that interview began,

12 you requested that your interview not be

13 tape-recorded?

14 A. I don‟t remember that.

15 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

16 you a report on that interview?

17 A. Okay. Sure.

18 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

19 THE COURT: Yes.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay.

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

22 look at that report?

23 A. I read the first paragraph.

24 Q. And does it refresh your recollection that

25 you requested that your interview not be

26 tape-recorded?

27 A. It does not, but I probably said that.

28 Q. Okay. You don‟t know for sure, though? 4912

1 A. No.

Jason goes on to say that he made that request because tape recording is “weird”! But pay attention to this exchange, because Mesereau points out some bombshell exculpatory evidence! Each and every instance of “molestation” was preceded by a tickling contest! This is indicative of the playful relationship MJ had with Jason!

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Why didn‟t you want your

25 interview in December of 2004 with the prosecutors

26 tape-recorded?

27 A. I don‟t know.

28 Q. You don‟t have any idea why you made that 4917

1 request?

2 A. Tape-recording is weird. I don‟t know. No,

3 I don‟t.

4 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling Prosecutor

5 Zonen in the December 2004 interview regarding the

6 first incident you described – okay? – that you and

7 Mr. Jackson were in a tickle contest? Do you

8 remember that?

9 A. I do not. I don‟t know whether it was the

10 first interview or the second interview that we

11 talked about Michael molesting me.

12 Q. Well, actually, in the December interview,

13 you told Prosecutor Zonen that, in all three

14 instances that you described where you claim you

15 were inappropriately touched, every incident was

16 preceded by a tickling contest between you and Mr.

17 Jackson, right?

18 A. I don‟t know.

19 Q. Would it refresh your recollection just to

20 show you the report?

21 A. You can show it to me, but I don‟t know

22 whether it was the first or the second.

23 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

24 THE COURT: Yes.

25 THE WITNESS: Okay.

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

27 review that page of the report?

28 A. I didn‟t read the whole page. I read that 4918

1 paragraph.

2 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

3 you told Prosecutor Zonen in that December 6th,

4 2004, interview?

5 A. It doesn‟t — I don‟t — it doesn‟t help

6 remembering, but —

7 Q. Well, you told him that all three events

8 that you described were preceded by a tickling

9 contest, correct?

10 A. I don‟t remember.

11 Q. You and Mr. Jackson were in a contest as to

12 who could tickle the most, correct?

13 A. I just said I don‟t remember that. I don‟t

14 mean to sound like I‟m wasting your time, but this

15 is kind of hard being up here, and —

16 Q. No, please don‟t. Just respond to my

17 questions, if you would, please.

18 A. Okay. Sorry.

Jason then admits that he asked that his mother’s November 19th, 2004 interview not be recorded as well! He didn’t know at first that his mom was interviewed in November 2004, but then suddenly remembered he was at that meeting, and requested that he not be tape recorded.

19 Q. Now, on November 19th, 2004, Prosecutor

20 Zonen and Auchincloss interviewed your mother at the

21 District Attorney‟s Office, right?

22 A. I don‟t know. Me and my mother don‟t talk

23 about that stuff much.

24 Q. Well, you were present, weren‟t you?

25 A. Now I remember, yes.

26 Q. Now you remember?

27 A. Yeah. I was present there.

28 Q. You not only were present, but you also 4919

1 requested that that not be tape-recorded, correct?

2 A. Probably.

3 Q. You don‟t know?

4 A. I don‟t know.

5 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look

6 at that report?

7 A. No. But bring it on up.

8 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

9 THE COURT: No, he said it wouldn‟t.

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You‟re not willing to look

11 at it?

12 A. It‟s not about me willing. I‟m willing to

13 look at it, but it‟s not going to help.

14 Q. Well, that was last November you had that

15 interview with your mom and these prosecutors,

16 correct?

17 A. Again, this is all difficult.

18 Q. I know it‟s difficult, but you‟re saying you

19 don‟t remember that interview?

20 A. You just said I met with my mom and I was

21 there, and I didn‟t remember until you said that,

22 and then I remembered.

23 Q. Do you remember you and your mom both

24 requested that the interview not be tape-recorded?

25 A. I do not.

26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to see

27 what it says in the report about that?

28 A. Bring it over. It — yeah. Bring it over. 4920

1 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

2 THE COURT: Yes.

3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

4 look at the page of that report?

5 A. Yeah, I read the first paragraph.

6 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about you

7 and your mother both requesting no tape-recording?

8 A. No, it does not.

9 Q. Okay. You don‟t remember one way or the

10 other about that?

11 A. Right.

Memory lapse alert! Memory lapse alert! Here Jason admits that he doesn’t remember his interviews from October, November, or December 2004!!

12 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, on that particular day,

13 and I‟m referring to November 19th, 2004, you were

14 interviewed as well, correct?

15 A. Was this when my mother was present?

16 Q. Yes.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. Do you remember you were interviewed on that

19 day?

20 A. I think I was just there for my mom.

21 Q. Well, actually, they interviewed your mom

22 first and then they interviewed you second, correct?

23 A. I don‟t remember that.

24 Q. Okay. They interviewed you for about an

25 hour, didn‟t they?

26 A. They may have.

27 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

28 you the report about that? 4921

1 A. No.

2 Q. You‟re not willing to look at it?

3 A. I‟ll look at it. I‟ll look at it, but no,

4 it probably won‟t.

5 Q. You don‟t remember an hour interview on

6 November 19th, 2004?

7 A. Again, the issue is it‟s all kind of

8 blending in together.

9 Q. You do remember the December interview with

10 Prosecutor Zonen, right?

11 A. You asked me that —

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. Go ahead, ask it again. Do I remember the

14 December interview?

15 Q. Yes.

16 A. I remember it taking place. I don‟t

17 remember what specific was asked.

18 Q. Actually, let me clarify the date.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. Okay. I‟m talking about the report. You

21 were interviewed on October 18th, 2004, by

22 prosecutors, right?

23 A. I‟m sorry?

24 Q. You were interviewed on October 18th by

25 prosecutors, correct?

26 A. Of 2004?

27 Q. Yes.

28 A. I believe that was the first time that I met 4922

1 these guys, but I don‟t know.

2 Q. And then you were interviewed approximately

3 a month later on November 19th, right?

4 A. You got a bunch of hands raised behind you.

5 THE BAILIFF: Mr. Mesereau, could you check

6 if it‟s on? I guess they can‟t hear you back there.

7 THE WITNESS: Sorry, that‟s what was kind of

8 distracting me.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: I had mentioned a December

10 date. Actually, you were interviewed in October and

11 November of 2004, right?

12 A. October, November, December. I don‟t know.

Here’s another example of how the police bullied him in 1993!

2 Q. Okay. All right. Now, you admitted that at

3 the beginning of your first interview with sheriffs

4 in „93, you said that Mr. Jackson had not touched

5 your genital area, right?

6 A. I said that at the very beginning.

7 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: It was only after you were

10 pushed real hard by the sheriffs that you began to

11 say anything like that, true?

12 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

13 THE COURT: Sustained.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And at one point a sheriff

15 actually used a curse word to get you to say

16 something, correct?

17 A. I don‟t remember that, but you could show me

18 the thing.

19 Q. Okay. But as you sit here today, you don‟t

20 remember, right?

21 A. I don‟t remember the four-letter word.

22 Everybody in junior high cussed.

23 Q. How about the word “bullshit”?

24 A. What about it?

25 Q. Do you remember a sheriff telling you that?

26 A. I don‟t, but I think I remember listening to

27 it on the tape.

28 Q. Do you remember in that interview one 4927

1 sheriff telling you, “Mr. Jackson is a molester,”

2 and the other saying, “He makes great music, he‟s a

3 great guy, bullshit”? Do you remember that?

4 A. I don‟t remember that specifically, but I

5 think I remember hearing it on the tape, which was

6 my voice, or his voice.

7 Q. You do remember a sheriff‟s voice saying

8 that, right?

9 A. I don‟t remember right now of „93, but I

10 remember listening to the tape.

11 Q. Okay. And a sheriff said that to you,

12 correct?

13 A. I believe so.

14 Q. And the sheriffs complained that, “Mr.

15 Jackson has a lot of money” in that interview,

16 right?

17 A. I believe he did say that, but can I look at

18 the paper?

19 Q. Sure.

20 May I approach, Your Honor?

21 THE COURT: Yes.

22 THE WITNESS: Okay.

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

24 look at the transcript?

25 A. I did.

26 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

27 the sheriffs said to you about Mr. Jackson in the

28 interview? 4928

1 A. I don‟t remember that specifically, but

2 reading it in the transcript, I remember reading

3 that in the transcript when I read it on Sunday,

4 when I reviewed the tape.

5 Q. And even after sheriffs said to you, “He‟s a

6 molester, he‟s a great guy, makes great music,

7 bullshit, he has lots of money,” you still said he

8 had never touched your genital area, right?

9 A. I believe so. Probably towards the

10 beginning again.

In this excerpt, Mesereau traps Jason with yet another one of his initial denials of abuse by MJ, and a frustrated Mesereau is chastised by Judge Melville for being too vague as to which interview he is referring to! He also asks Jason how he could remember crying during an interview he if doesn’t even remember the interview!

26 Q. Okay. You were asked to describe what Mr.

27 Jackson did with his hands, and your response was,

28 “He tickled me,” true? 4932

1 A. I don‟t know. I was probably crying then.

2 Q. Would you like to review the transcript, see

3 if it refreshes your recollection?

4 A. Sure.

5 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. May I approach, Your

6 Honor?

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: By the way, if you don‟t

9 remember the interview, how do you know you were

10 crying?

11 A. Because I usually cry when we‟re talking

12 about the molestation.

13 Q. Okay. Okay. Again, do you remember saying

14 to the police officers in response to their

15 question, “What did he do with your penis?” You

16 said, “He tickled me”?

17 A. I thought you were going to bring me that

18 thing.

19 Q. Would you like to see it?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. Do you remember describing what Mr. Jackson

24 did as tickling?

25 A. Do I remember describing what Michael

26 Jackson did as tickling?

27 Q. Yes.

28 A. Like tickling my penis or — 4933

1 Q. Yes.

2 A. Are we talking the first or second or third

3 incident?

4 Q. I don‟t know.

5 MR. ZONEN: Well, I‟m going to object as

6 vague.

7 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling

9 the interviewers in that second interview in 1994,

10 when they asked you what Mr. Jackson did with your

11 penis, you said, “He didn‟t really touch it, he was

12 above my shorts”? Do you remember that?

13 A. Are we talking first or second or third?

14 Q. I believe you were just answering their

15 questions.

16 MR. ZONEN: Objection; vague.

17 THE COURT: Sustained.

18 Counsel, you‟re going to have to direct —

19 if you‟re going to question in this manner, you‟re

20 going to have to direct it to specific times. There

21 were three interviews.

22 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I‟m sorry, Your Honor.

23 THE COURT: And you‟re being unfair to the

24 witness in my opinion.

In this excerpt, Jason is asked about yet another one of his denials, and when he tries to give a long and convoluted answer, he s chastised by Judge Melville:

20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I‟m going to try

21 and direct my questions to a particular interview,

22 one of the four that you had, and direct them to one

23 of the three events that you have described when you

24 claim Mr. Jackson improperly touched you, okay?

25 Now, directing your attention to the second

26 interview, which is in 1994 – okay? – and directing

27 your attention to the first event that you have

28 described where you claim Mr. Jackson improperly 4935

1 touched you – okay? – do you remember — excuse me.

2 Isn‟t it true that, when asked about the first event

3 in that second interview, you said Mr. Jackson

4 didn‟t really touch your penis?

5 A. I don‟t —

6 MR. ZONEN: What page?

7 MR. MESEREAU: 60.

8 THE WITNESS: No, I don‟t remember.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

10 recollection if I show you a page of that

11 transcript?

12 A. Bring it over.

13 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

14 THE COURT: Yes.

15 THE WITNESS: Okay.

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

17 look at that page?

18 A. I have. Well, not the tape. I‟ve read

19 those two little sentences there.

20 Q. Does it refresh your recollection of what

21 you told the people who were interviewing you about

22 that first event during the interview in 1994?

23 A. It does not refresh my memory. But in

24 reading it —

25 THE COURT: Wait. That‟s the end of your

26 answer.

27 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sorry.

28 THE COURT: Listen to the question and just 4936

1 answer the question asked.

Mesereau pins Jason down again and forces him to account for what he told police in 1994 when he said that he’s “working on that” in response to a question of whether he remembered what he said in the first interview.

19 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling the

20 interviewers, when you were asked do you remember

21 anything that he said, you said, “No, I‟m working on

22 that”?

23 A. No.

24 MR. ZONEN: I‟ll object as to which

25 interview; vague.

26 MR. MESEREAU: In the second interview, I‟m

27 sorry.

28 Q. In the second interview — let me rephrase 4941

1 the question. I‟ll withdraw it.

2 In the second interview in 1994 – okay? —

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. — that was recorded – all right? – when

5 asked if Mr. Jackson said anything to you about

6 whether you should discuss what happened, do you

7 remember telling the interviewers, “No, but I‟m

8 working on that”?

9 A. I do not remember that.

10 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

11 you the transcript?

12 A. No. But — you could bring it over.

13 Q. Well, I can‟t unless you‟re willing to see

14 if it refreshes your recollection.

15 A. Okay. Bring it over. I‟ll give it a shot.

16 I‟ll read it just to see if it refreshes my memory.

17 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

18 THE COURT: Yes.

19 MR. ZONEN: Page, Counsel?

20 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. Pages 105, 106.

21 THE WITNESS: Okay.

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

23 review those pages —

24 A. I have.

25 Q. — of your transcript?

26 Do they refresh your recollection about what

27 you said on that subject?

28 A. No, it does not. 4942

1 Q. It doesn‟t.

2 A. Sorry.

Here’s something that will make you laugh out loud! Jason admits that he first learned that MJ was sued for money at age 16 when money “became an issue for him”!

25 Q. Looking back, when is the first time you

26 recall you knew someone else had sued Mr. Jackson

27 looking for money?

28 A. Probably 16. 4943

1 Q. Excuse me?

2 A. I was probably 16. Because that‟s when

3 money started being an issue for me.

That excerpt ends Mesereau’s cross examination. Zonen asked a few more questions under re-direct examination, and three things that stand out are that 1) he never told his wife about his “molestation”, 2) he did tell his pastor about it, and 3) he told his mother about it only after he started getting counseling, but didn’t tell her any details. You would think she would demand to know the details, right?

Mesereau declined to re-cross examine Jason, and after reading my summary of his testimony, it’s easy to see why! Interestingly, Jason said that MJ “needs to move away” as he left the witness stand. As we all know, those words were prophetic, as MJ moved to Bahrain after his acquittal. (Although I’m sure Jason didn’t imply that MJ should move away to avoid the press!)

5 Q. Mr. Mesereau asked you yesterday questions

6 about whether you talked to your mother about what

7 had happened, and if so, to what extent.

8 Did you ever have a conversation with your

9 mother where you told her that you were molested?

10 A. I think I told her that I was molested in

11 counseling, because then she shared that she was

12 molested as well.

13 Q. Okay. Did you ever tell her the details of

14 the molestation?

15 A. No.

16 Q. What had happened, how it happened, how

17 often it happened, any of those types of details?

18 A. I don‟t think so.

19 Q. To this day, have you ever?

20 A. To this day. My wife found out on the

21 stand.

22 Q. The details you had not yet told your wife?

23 A. Right.

24 Q. Have you ever told anybody the details other

25 than your therapist?

26 A. My pastor.

27 Q. Your pastor?

28 A. And I don‟t think I told him the details. 4948

1 MR. ZONEN: Thank you. I have no further

2 questions.

3 THE COURT: Recross?

4 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions, Your

5 Honor.

6 THE COURT: All right. You may step down.

7 He needs to move away.

8 MR. SNEDDON: Don‟t forget your jacket.

Now, after reading that summary of Jason’s ENTIRE testimony, it’s pretty easy to see why the jury didn’t take his claims seriously, right? It’s too bad the general public wasn’t informed about the facts of his testimony! Let’s look at what the Santa Maria Times had to say about Jason’s testimony!

Former Jackson victim finishes testifying

A 24-year-old Santa Maria man who said Michael Jackson molested him on three occasions as a child wrapped up his testimony this morning.

During cross examination, Jackson attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. quizzed the man on four interviews he had with law enforcement between 1993 and 2004. Mesereau was unable to reveal any inconsistencies in the story.

At times Mesereau was vague about which specific interview and incident of molestation he was referring to, prompting Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville to briefly interrupt questioning.

“You/re being unfair to the witness, in my opinion,” Melville said.

The man, whose mother was a housekeeper for the singer, also spoke of how his perception of Michael Jackson changed during his childhood.

“In fifth grade I told my friends that I knew Michael Jackson and they thought it was cool …. In junior high it/s no longer cool to know someone who has issues with kids,” the man said.

The man, who testified Monday about how tickling contests with Jackson escalated into fondling, said today that after two of the incidents Jackson put a ,100 bill in his shorts.

Mesereau referred to previous interviews the man gave in which he said Jackson also offered him money to read books and get good grades. The man said he never received any money for either of those deeds.

“Throughout my whole life, grades were a problem,” the man said, provoking some chuckling in the courtroom.

The Santa Maria Times, following its established policy, is not identifying those who allege they were abused by Jackson, even though they are being named in court.

* Staff writer Quintin Cushner can be reached at (805) 739-2217 or by e-mail atqcushner@pulitzer.net.

April 6,2005

Can you believe that? Mesereau was “unable to reveal any inconsistencies in the story”? Are you freaking kidding me? Maybe we should contact Quintin Cushner and ask him if he even bothered to read Jason’s testimony! There were so many inconsistencies that the jurors LAUGHED at his testimony during a court break after he was done testifying!

Here is a compilation of the media’s coverage of Francia’s testimony! Notice how the reporter asked Sheriff Jim Thomas why the police decided to interview Jason despite the fact that he never filed a complaint, and he said it’s because a Neverland employee told them to!

Conservative commentator Matt Drudge summed up the reason why so many people thought MJ was guilty oh so succinctly when he said the following on his radio show on 2005 (which can be heard in this post):

Matt Drudge: I think if you did a pulse poll, of people listening to these local talk shows, they would say 95% that Michael Jackson did all this. They would say that, because it’s based on the coverage! It’s based on the coverage!

Here’s yet another example of the slezy media coddling MJ’s accusers! Maureen Orth’s “C.S.I. Neverland” article, which was published in June 2005 (before the acquittal), said the following about Francia’s testimony (notice how she relies on the fallacy of telling half-truths, how she tries to emphasize Francia’s religious convictions in order to win symphathy for him, and that she confirms that the jurors laughed at his testimony during their break!):

Jason Francia, the handsome son of a former personal maid at Neverland, was the only young man to come forward and tell the jury that Michael Jackson had molested him, beginning when he was seven. After five years of therapy, the devout evangelical Christian said, he now works as a mentor to troubled young people and as a salesman of auto parts. He was 17, he said, when he learned that his mother, Blanca Francia, had agreed to a $2.4 million settlement with Jackson over three allegations of fondling him, and he had found out only two days prior to taking the stand that she had sold her story to tabloid TV for $20,000.

Francia testified that twice at Jackson’s “hideout” apartment in Los Angeles the pop star had engaged him in tickling games during which he would move his hands over the boy’s genitalia on the outside of his shorts. “Pretty much at every tickle thing there was money,” he said, adding that both times Jackson gave him a hundred-dollar bill. As he described a third time, at Neverland when he was about 10 and Jackson’s hands were inside his pants, his eyes welled up with tears, and he had to stop. When detectives questioned him in 1993, during the investigation into the Chandler case, he was 13 and at first denied that anything untoward had happened to him. A short time later, however, he disclosed details to the police.

During a break the judge took for a conference at the bench in the middle of Francia’s testimony, I was alarmed by the indifference of the jurors. The young man sitting in the witness-box before them had just gone through one of the most humiliating ordeals of his life, but they did not exhibit the slightest sign of empathy. They ignored him as they laughed and talked together. I suddenly wondered if we have not all watched so much Dr. Phil and Oprah that we can no longer distinguish between real pain and entertainment.

Here are the complete questions asked by the police that Mesereau used as examples of their bullying methods on Jason, taken from the SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF OPPOSITION TO DISTRIC ATTORNEY’S MTION FOR ADMISSION OF ALLEGED PRIOR OFFENSES pleading . After telling cops that he doesn’t remember being inappropriately touched by MJ, Det. Neglia responds with the following:

Detective Neglia: Okay, but what I am getting at is that maybe I am not being obvious enough. What I am saying is maybe he put his hands someplace on you where he shouldn’t have. Maybe he put his hands on you someplace that made you feel uncomfortable. And that’s why you are not remembering. It’s like there is a little bit of “Oh. I can’t remember that guy’s name and I don’t remember his last name, and I just don’t remember that. No I don’t want to remember that, no I can’t remember.” It’s a little of bit of a different kind of not remembering, one is because you are choosing not to, and one is that you just can’t call back the uh, the event. And I think of what you doing is tickling and all this stuff, is trying forcing yourself not to remember. And you also kind of got to the one where you’re saying that fourth time at the party you said something like, “That was the time.” What time was it?

Jason: What was the time?

Later in the interview, the detecives tell Jason Francia that MJ is currently molesting Macaulay Culkin:

Det. Neglia: I realize how hard this is. I realize how painful it is to think of these things you tried so hard not to think about but you are doing fine. And you are also helping the kid that he is bothering now.

Jason Francia: What do you mean he’s bothering?

Det. Birchim: He’s doing the same thing.

Jason Francia: Macauly Culkin.

Det. Neglia: Only he’s getting a lot more into it. Like your mother pulled you out of there. Macaulay’s mother is not going to pull him out of there. They are feeding him.

Det. Birchim: He’s doing worse stuff.

Det. Neglia: It’s much worse with him.

The police go on to implicate Corey Feldman as another victim, and suggest that Jason can help them pull Eddie and Frank Cascio away from MJ while he’s on tour! (Although none of them are mentioned by name, it’s easy to know who they’re referring to.)

Det. Neglia: He’s a junkie now. he gets arrested, he doesn’t act or anything, he gets high. He packs his nose with cocaine and he’s going to die by the time he is 22 years old.

Jason Francia: How old is he?

Det.Neglia: About 21. But that’s the kind of life he is living, and it’s got to do with being exposed to people like this, and having nobody to protect them and to take them out.

Det. Birchim: Like you had your mom.

Det. Neglia: Like your mom pulled you out and you’re, you’re candid, and you’re honesty with us is going to help us. To pull the next kid out. it might even, be too late for Macauly already. But these kids that he’s traveling with are on tour right now. Maybe we can pull them out of it…

Here is an article from February 1994 that refers to Blanca Francia’s concern over having Jason talking to police without her being present:

Officials Desperate To Nail Michael Jackson

Newsday

February 07, 1994
The child sex abuse case against Michael Jackson has taken a new – and ugly – turn.
Prosecutors in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara counties are scrambling to salvage what’s left of their criminal investigations into sex abuse allegations against the pop music star.
Los Angeles District Attorney Gil Garcetti urged state legislators last week to amend a law that now prohibits forcing people who say they have been sexually assaulted to testify in criminal proceedings.
If passed, the change would take effect immediately and allow Garcetti to compel the 14-year-old boy with whom Jackson reached an out-of-court settlement last month to testify in any criminal trials growing out of his widely reported charge that the superstar sexually abused him.
That would be a real act of legal brinksmanship.
If the lawmakers give Garcetti the power he seeks and the boy – whose doctors say he needs to put this matter behind him – refuses to testify, what would he do? Send the boy to jail?
Law enforcement officials in Santa Barbara County have taken a different – if no less desperate – approach in their pursuit of criminal charges against Jackson.
Investigators from the county sheriff’s office recently arranged for the 13-year-old son of Jackson’s former maid to see a therapist. The boy was first interviewed by police after his mother told them he had spent time alone with Jackson. According to his mother, the child has repeatedly denied being abused in any way by the pop music star. The offer of a therapist was made after the woman, an immigrant from Central America, complained about meetings and phone conversations sheriff’s deputies had with the boy while she was not present.
It made her “feel uncomfortable,” she said in a deposition, that she didn’t know what the deputies were talking about with the young boy.
When she asked them “who should I talk to” about her concerns, they arranged for the woman and her son to see separate therapists at the county’s expense, she said in the sworn statement. Not surprisingly, a senior official of the Santa Barbara sheriff’s department told People magazine last week that the boy who brought the original sex abuse charge against Jackson “is not the only victim out there.”
This week, a grand jury will be convened in Santa Barbara County to hear testimony concerning the Jackson case, and the bill Garcetti is pushing will be introduced in the state assembly.
And the line between justice and injustice is getting harder and harder to find.

When you look at the way that Francia and Feldman (and others) were interviewed by police, it’s clear that the police were seeking a conviction, and not justice! In fact, on October 28th, 1993, MJ’s defense attorney Bert Fields wrote a letter to Police Chief Willie Williams about the bullying tactics that the LAPD officers were using during their interviews of children, including telling the children that they had nude photos of them!

Here are nine warning signs that an alleged victim may have been pressured into making a false accusation (taken from the article The Fallibility of Forensic Interviewing), and you’ll see that many of them apply to Jason Francia and Corey Feldman:

The Analysis of Child Interviews

The New Jersey Supreme Court found nine factors sufficient to justify a

pretrial taint hearing:

(a) Absence of spontaneous recall;

(b) Interviewer bias against defendant – a preconceived idea of what the child should be

disclosing;

(c) Repeated leading questions;

(d) Multiple interviews;

(e) Incessant questioning;

(f) Vilification of defendant;

(g) Ongoing contact with peers and references to their statements;

(h) Use of threats, bribes and cajoling; and

(i) Failure to videotape or otherwise document the initial interview sessions.

The above factors were to be considered, if a hearing is held, in determining whether a

child’s testimony is tainted and should be suppressed. Other indicators of faulty interviewing not only exist, but they can be quantified – allowing for an objective analysis.

It’s a good thing that MJ was able to hire Mesereau, but if he had not been available, I know of someone who would have been a perfect fit to defend MJ! Who is this person, you ask?

It’s Ed Chernoff! Yes, THE Ed Chernoff who defended Conrad Murray!

Did you know that his law office (Stradley, Chernoff, & Alford) defends people who have been falsely accused of child abuse? Pay attention to what Chernoff’s law firm says about police investigations!

Sex Crimes Against Children

Standing as the Voice of Reason to Protect and Defend the Accused

If you’ve been accused of a sex crime involving a child — whether child says they were molested, or you’re charged with possession of Internet child pornography — you’ve entered the realm of nightmares. Even if you are completely innocent, you are facing an uphill battle against state police and Child Protective Services, and possibly federal child sex crimes authorities.

When you are in a fight for your reputation and your freedom, you want heavy hitters on your side. Contact the Houston sex crimes defense attorneys at the Harris County law office of Stradley, Chernoff & Alford, Call 713-489-2358 for a thoughtful, realistic free consultation.

Defense for Felony or Misdemeanor Sex Charges

At Stradley, Chernoff & Alford, we defend people facing any child sex crime charge, including:

  • predatory sexual assault
  • child solicitation
  • possession of child pornography
  • sexual abuse of children or child molestation
  • statutory rape
  • indecent exposure or lewd conduct
  • fondling or sexual battery
  • sexual assault
  • indecency with a child
  • aggravated sexual assault of a child

Former Prosecutors Fighting for Your Defense

When you work with the defense lawyers at Stradley, Chernoff & Alford, you are no longer alone with the emotional burden of a sex crime charge. Our team of former prosecutors and former DA’s are all board-certified specialists in criminal law, certified by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. We fight to protect our clients at every stage of their criminal case.

Police Investigations and Polygraph Tests

The inclination of a person falsely accused of this crime is to cooperate unconditionally with the accusing government. The impulse is to shout his innocence from the rooftops and rationalize with the investigating officials with the hope of stopping the insanity. Unfortunately, innocence alone will not stop this train.

Children tend to be believed when sexual accusations are made. Well meaning adults, especially those with care taking responsibilities, have an overriding interest in protecting the child at all costs. This bias drives the sex crime investigation and it will likely persist throughout, despite the many protestations of innocence from the accused.

The good news is, the madness can be stopped, and if you are reading this before you have been formally charged with a crime, you have a much better chance than most of avoiding prosecution. Information can be provided to the police that will enable them to close their investigation without recommending charges. Each case varies, but a lawyer who has superior experience in handling Sexual Assault of a Child cases will know how to get this case specific information to the officer in the right way

Not all police officers are reasonable, however our experience has been that most officers are willing to work with us when they are made to understand that we are not interested in impeding their investigation. In fact, we are trying to help them make the right charging determination. No officer is interested in being grilled on the stand for arresting an innocent man.

If you are already charged with this horrendous crime, don’t lose hope. All the way down the prosecutorial time-line, there are ways to get your case dismissed. On many occasions we have convinced the Grand Jury that there was insufficient evidence to indict. Even after indictment, months of court appearances, discovery and trial settings, we have had many cases dismissed. If the case makes it to trial, a conviction is not a foregone conclusion. If you are well represented by a lawyer who is supremely experienced in these types of cases, you can be acquitted. In fact, the majority of sex crime cases we have tried have resulted in acquittals

In some child sex crime cases it can be effective to talk to the police early in the process. But you should never talk to the police without your lawyer present.They are not on your side — we are.

Child accusers and witnesses can be easily misled or confused, and legal intervention early on can sometimes lead to charges being dropped or reduced. Defense lawyers with years of years of experience in Texas criminal courts, we know when to step forward to help a police investigation.

Did the police suggest a polygraph test to prove your innocence? People facing serious criminal charges — especially innocent people — are often quick to take a lie detector test to “prove” their innocence. Unfortunately, polygraph tests are unreliable. That’s why the results aren’t allowed in court.

Worse yet, a false positive on a lie detector test can give the impression that you are guilty. So before you take that test, cooperate with the police, or talk to Child Protective Services, talk with a lawyer.

As soon as you suspect you will be, or have been, accused of a child sex crime, contact the Houston law office of Stradley, Chernoff & Alford. When the stakes are high, put our experienced criminal defense team on your side.

You can talk to one of our lawyers for free: Call 713-489-2358

Se Habla Español

Update: on June 17th, 2012, the law firm of Stradley, Chernoff & Alford announced that they were closing down! What interesting karma! David Walgren went on to become a judge, and Ed Chernoff’s law firm dissolved!

And here are some interesting comments from some MJ fans:

Here are bullet points that you should use when discussing Jason Francia’s testimony with skeptics or haters:

  • Jason Francia was the son of Blanca Francia, a former Neverland employee who was fired for theft, and sold lies about MJ to Diane Dimond for $20k dollars.
  • After the Chandler allegations became public, the police were in search of corroborating victims in order to bolster their case, and they sought Jason; he and Blanca did not seek police!
  • In two interviews that took place in November 1993 and March 1994, Jason initially denied being molested, but police bullied him into a confession by saying “This is what happened, right?”, “Admit to us he did something proper!”, “He’s a great guy, bullshit!”, and they lied and told Jason that other children had been molested by MJ. Jason told police “I’ll have to work on that” when asked about his story.
  • Jason denied any abuse by saying “I’ll just say this out flat, I don’t remember him trying anything with me except for the tickling!”, “You guys are pushy!”, and “They made me come out with a lot more stuff I didn’t want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to get up and hit them in the head!”
  • He said he “blacked out” during his interrogations with police. He eventually claimed he was touched on his genitals three times by MJ while being tickled in 1987, 1988, and 1990 by saying “You know, I think he did tickle me”.
  • Each of the tickling sessions were playful, innocent horseplay, which Jason readily consented to and enjoyed! MJ also paid Jason money for completing books and getting A’s in school.
  • After the police “convinced” Jason that he was molested, he attended counseling for 5 years, and Sneddon attended the first session.
  • Blanca and Jason hired lawyers and threatened MJ with a civil lawsuit in late 1994/early 1995, and MJ was advise to settle out of court before the lawsuit was filed in order to avoid irreparable damage to his career. The settlement was for $2.4 million dollars, and did not preclude the Francia from cooperating in a criminal trial. (Hence they’re participation in the 2005 trial!)
  • He didn’t know his mother Blanca was paid $20k by Hard Copy until two days before testifying, and he didn’t know about Blanca’s settlement with MJ!
  • Jason participated in three police interviews in October, November, and December 2004, but couldn’t remember important details from those interviews, despite claiming to remember details from his 1993 and 1994 interviews!
  • Mesereau was able to effectively show the inconsistencies in Jason’s testimony, and the jurors laughed at his testimony during a break!
  • Here is another summary of Jason’s testimony from the Michael Jackson: And Justice For Some blog. For more information on how Jason and his mother were able to extort $2.4 million dollars from MJ, read this post.

So there you have it. I have used this post to show you how Michael’s enemies have put their “faith” into action, and how even a former youth pastor could get swept up in “Michael-mania” (and I’m not talking about buying his albums! I’m talking about lying in court!)

This was one of the longest and most detailed posts that I have ever written, and it’s a sneak preview of what’s to come later this year as I summarize and analyze EVERYONE’S testimony from the 2005 trial.

After all that tedious work  and research, let’s end this post on a hilarious note! I want to inject some laughter and entertainment here, so let’s enjoy the Christian hate group known as the Westboro Baptist Church as they cover some of MJ’s greatest hits!

Read it!

God’s Mad!

God Hates The World!

In the final part of this series, I will highlight Christians who have DEFENDED Michael Jackson!

*  *  *

Updated by vindicatemj on February 2, 2012:

David, thank you for the detailed post. It enabled me to also make some conclusions which I would like to share.

1.  Why do the prosecution, defense and the judge  are somewhat battling about which number interview it was? Isn’t it the same whether it was the first (Nov.1993) or second (March 1994) interview?

No, it is absolutely not the same.

In his 2005 testimony Jason says again and again that back in 1993 he was initially shy, ashamed, didn’t want to disclose the truth, etc. but towards the end of the interview he finally blurted it out.

This is an example of what he says in reply to ghastly, horrendous, totally unacceptable leading questions of the police which should have never been asked:

5 Q. And even after sheriffs said to you, “He‟s a
6 molester, he‟s a great guy, makes great music,
7 bullshit, he has lots of money,” you still said he
8 had never touched your genital area, right?
9 A. I believe so. Probably towards the
10 beginning again.

So now Jason tries to convey the idea that he denied “touches” only in his initial statements, but opened up towards the end of the 1993 interview, right? To see whether he is telling the truth now let us look at the SECOND interview he gave four months later, in March 1994:

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling
9 the interviewers in that second interview in 1994,
10 when they asked you what Mr. Jackson did with your
11 penis, you said, “He didn‟t really touch it, he was
12 above my shorts”
? Do you remember that?
13 A. JASON: Are we talking first or second or third?

This is when the judge interferes because it is top important to know which number interview it was:

18 THE COURT: Counsel, you‟re going to have to direct –
19 if you‟re going to question in this manner, you‟re
20 going to have to direct it to specific times. There
21 were three interviews.
22 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I‟m sorry, Your Honor.

Q. BY MR. MESEREAU:
25 Now, directing your attention to the second
26 interview, which is in 1994 – okay? – and directing
27 your attention to the first event that you have
28 described where you claim Mr. Jackson improperly 4935
1 touched you – okay? –
2 Isn‟t it true that, when asked about the first event
3 in that second interview, you said Mr. Jackson
4 didnt really touch your penis?

5 A. I don‟t –
6 MR. ZONEN: What page?
7 MR. MESEREAU: 60.
8 THE WITNESS: No, I don‟t remember.
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your
10 recollection if I show you a page of that
11 transcript?
12 A. Bring it over.

It doesn’t matter what Jason “doesn’t remember” now – what does matter is that in 2005 he says he disclosed the truth by the end of the first interview but the transcripts from 1993 and 1994 prove the opposite – not only didn’t he say so in the FIRST interview, but even in the SECOND interview with the police he was still saying that all MJ did was simple tickling and there were no sensitive touches!

The same is proven by this episode from the trial where Thomas Mesereau and Jason Francia discuss the first interview – even at the end of it he was still saying that it was nothing but tickling:

9 Q. In your interview in 1993, the police asked
10 you if Mr. Jackson rubbed your penis, and you said,
11 “No,” correct?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Right?
14 A. In the beginning, yeah.
15 Q. Well, pretty late in the interview, wasn‟t
16 it?
17 A. I have no clue.
18 Q. You said, “It was a tickling. He didn‟t rub
19 me there,” correct?

20 A. Oh. Okay. If we‟re going that –

The only episode where he more or less thinks that it could probably involve touching was the third one – which allegedly took place in the arcade – when he was three years older. The 1993 transcript says the following about it:

15 Q. And in that 1993 interview, when it came to
16 talking about what happened at the arcade, you
17 didn‟t know if he‟d really touched you improperly,
18 right?
19 A. I knew.
20 Q. Well, you kept responding, “I don‟t know,”
21 and then you‟d say, “If he really did touch, it was
22 in the arcade”?

23 A. No –
24 Q. And you were asked, “Do you think he did
25 it?” And you said, “I don‟t know”.
26 A. I knew.
27 Q. But you told the police you didn‟t know,
28 correct? 4893
1 A. I don‟t remember. If you bring that thing
2 to me again, I‟m going to — yes.

Never mind again what he says in 2005 – what is important is what he said then, and he said “he didn’t touch” about the first two episodes, and repeatedly said “I don’t know” about the third one.

Actually in his 1993 interview Jason said it pointblank that he didn’t remember “anything with him except for the tickling”! He even said “trying” anything with him – so there was not even an attempt! And it was only towards the end of Jason’s second interview with the police that something changed his story…

19 Q. Do you remember in your first police
20 interview in 1993 telling the police, “I‟ll just say
21 this out flat. I don‟t remember him trying anything
22 with me except for the tickling”? 
Do you remember
23 that?
24 A. Do I remember saying that?
25 Q. Yes.
26 A. No. But I‟ve heard that on the voice. [on the tape]

So throughout the first interview in 1993 and at the beginning of the second 1994 interview he consistently said that it was nothing but tickling. Whatever change took place it was only by the end of the 1994 interview when Jason finally agreed to say something which was expected of him by the police. The reason for that was most probably the enormous pressure they exerted on him.

Let us remember it.

2. Another thing I wanted to mention is the first episode of tickling – when Jason was 7 – the way it is described by Jason in 1993 and 2005 and by his mother Blanca in 2005.

The comparison will tell us the TRUTH about that scene:

The transcript of 1993 says:

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling
27 the police in that interview, “We started tickling
28 each other and my mom just grabbed me and, „Let‟s go‟”?

… 16 Q. Well, on a number of occasions, you told
17 them, “We tickled each other and then I left,”
18 didn‟t you, words to that effect?
19 A. Yeah. Again, I was fighting with everything
20 I had.
21 Q. I‟m not asking you what you were doing. I‟m
22 just asking if that‟s true, okay? On a number of
23 occasions, you said, “We just tickled each other and
24 then I left,
” right?
25 A. Okay.

In his testimony at the 2005 trial Jason’s story about the “first time” dramatically changes (as if now he remembers it better!):

14 Q. What happened?
15 A. I was sitting on his lap, and I was young,
16 and I was small. I‟m still thin. I was even
17 thinner then. Sitting on his lap, watching T.V.,
18 which that‟s normal enough in itself. And then
19 we — I was kind of facing the T.V., and he was
20 facing the T.V. as well, so my back was to his
21 chest. And it was — there was just one chair, and
22 there wasn‟t much furniture in that hideout place.

23 And I was just sitting there watching T.V., and so
24 was he. I think we were watching cartoons. And he
25 just started tickling me, which, cool, shoot, I was
26 a tickle guy. I tickled him back, but still kind of
27 from the back, kind of reaching around.
28 And then we went to the floor, I think, but 4818
1 I can‟t completely remember right now. But we
somehow got on the floor, tickling still, because
3 I‟m doing what — these little kid things, you know,
4 when you shimmy back and forth.
5 And then I‟m tickling and he‟s tickling, and
6 I‟m tickling and he‟s tickling, and it eventually
7 moved down to — to — to my little private region
8 when you‟re a little kid. I don‟t know if you want
9 me to call it specifically something, but around my
10 crotch area. And I didn‟t — you know, you‟re
11 seven. I didn‟t think it was wrong. Well, I did.
12 Because he‟s tickling, but I‟m laughing, and I‟m
13 tickling him back, trying to get him to stop, but
14 then I‟m tickling too much. I‟m laughing too much.
15 And eventually it stopped. I don‟t know how.
16 Q. Did he actually make contact with your
17 genital area?
18 A. Not skin to skin, but, yeah. Yeah, he was
19 on my clothes, yeah.
20 Q. Do you know for approximately how long?
21 A. Distinctly I can‟t remember. It was a
22 while, though.
23 Q. By a little while, can you give us a sense
24 of it?
25 A. More than three minutes, less than 20. Less
26 than ten minutes, I think.
27 Q. Okay.

And this is what his mother Blanca Francia says in 2005 about the same “first” episode – the picture is totally different (and not only because they think it was in different places). It is different from Jason’s 2005 story but is fully consistent with what Jason said about it in 1993!

17 A. The first time, it was — I think it was in
18 Encino.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. That I remember that I walked in, because I
21 had the key to that room, too.

15 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Just tell us what you saw
16 with Jason.
17 A. Well, he was sitting on his lap.
18 Q. Okay. And what concerned you?
19 A. And I walked in, and he was sitting on his
20 lap, and Mr. Jackson was just reclining, reclining
21 to the back.

22 Q. Reclining?
23 A. Reclining to the back.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. And having my son in his lap.
26 Q. And where was Jason positioned on his lap?
27 A. His legs.
28 Q. Okay. And what did you do? 5013
1 A. I just told my son to get out. And he
2 was — I remember he say, “No, I’m fine.”
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You told your son to get out?
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. Did he do so?
11 A. No.
12 Q. What did you do then?
13 A. I think I push him, and — oh, he was –
14 some kind of — reading a book or coloring. And Mr.
15 Jackson say, “I want him to read,” or “I’m reading a story”,
16 something like that.

17 Q. Did you take your son off of his lap?
18 A. Yeah. Yes.

So both Jason in 1993 and Blanca in 2005 are essentially telling us one story:

– the boy wasn’t watching TV. He was reading a book.

– he was positioned on Michael’s legs and not in the crotch area

– the boy was sitting on his legs because there was only one chair in the room

– Michael was not pressing himself on the boy as he was reclining to the back of the chair

– now Jason says he “doesn’t remember” how it ended

– but his mother does. She just took him off Michael’s lap and they left

– so there was no “floor” scene AT ALL.

So what Jason Francia said about that episode in 2005 is a FLAT LIE.

3. The third thing worth mentioning is the fact that Jason started talking of “crappiness” only when the police arrived to ask questions (and not when the alleged “molestation” took place).

He says it not just once, but twice. He calls the day the crappiness started a big day and he cried so much after that visit that he didn’t go to judo practice:

23 Q. Did you know in advance that they wanted to
24 speak with you?
25 A. No. Not until the big day that this
26 crappiness started

The next time he mentions crappiness in connection with his interview at the police station. He cried again and changed his words trying to figure out what was the best way to “get out of there”:

12 Q. Okay. You kind of went back and forth
13 during the interview, didn‟t you? One second you‟d
14 say, “He tickled me,” and the next second you‟d say
15 you‟re not sure, right?
16 A. I was trying to figure out how to get out of
17 there.
18 Q. I understand. And you remember exactly how
19 you felt in 1993 during the interview, right?
20 A. The feeling of, yeah, crying and crappiness.

Considering that two months after the police entered the picture the Francias approached lawyers and Jason did not tell them a word about the alleged molestation (as he says in his 2005 testimony), I wondered at what other pretext they could threaten to file a suit if the lawyers did not even know that “molestation” was an issue?

I think the only other possible pretext was the damage done to the family by Michael involuntarily involving them in all this “crappiness”.

The boy cried a lot, gave interviews under enormous pressure, was terribly uncomfortable wanting to hit them on the head and had to go into therapy after that. What’s interesting is that he  didn’t have to go into therapy during the 3 years of alleged “molestation” – no, he had to do therapy only after those infamous interviews.

From the way Jason describes it all this trauma was most probably the result of him being emotionally abused by the police, and not MJ. The lawyers could very well approach Michael for compensation for the damage the whole situation caused to the boy. By the way the damage was indeed there – only it wasn’t Michael’s fault – and this is probably why Michael agreed to give him money.

He probably just felt sorry for him.

Update! September 23, 2012

A few days ago Corey Feldman argued with a few MJ fans on Twitter about his relationship with MJ, and the critical comments that he made in 2005 that insinuated that MJ was guilty.

In 2005, Feldman gave an interview to – surprise, surprise – Martin Bashir, and in it he described an incident from the late 80’s or early 90’s at MJ’s “Hideout” condominium, where he noticed a magazine with graphic photos of venereal diseases on MJ’s coffee table. Feldman asked MJ about that magazine, and after a short conversation about the risks of STDs, the two quickly moved on to the next subject. However, years later Feldman recalled this incident because, to him, it seemed eerily similar to the charges that MJ was facing in 2005 of showing porn to his under-aged “victims” as part of his “grooming” process.

Subsequently, Feldman regretted the interview because he agreed to it under false pretenses; he was under the impression that his life and career would be the main focus of the interview, but instead Bashir only used Feldman’s quotes about MJ in order to further fan the flames of outrage against MJ. Here’s an excerpt from an interview that he gave to the New York times in July 2005:

Meanwhile, Mr. Feldman says he now tries to stay out of the tabloids, but it has not been easy. In February he made news in an interview with the British journalist Martin Bashir, in which he said that he had come to a sickening realization that the molestation charges against Mr. Jackson might be true. Mr. Feldman,  had a falling-out with Mr. Jackson in 2001, says that he was shocked by the verdict. But he sounds even more upset at Mr. Bashir. “Bashir approached me with doing a 20/20 retrospective about my career,” Mr. Feldman explained. “He said he would ask about Michael, but it would only be a small portion of the show. We shot 36 hours of footage, and it was a 20-minute Michael Jackson piece. Tricked again.”

I’m gullible,” Mr. Feldman says. “The world needs a scapegoat, plain and simple. Somewhere, there was an electoral ballot, and I was nominated”.

Here are a few of Feldman’s tweets from September 20th, 2012, in which he thoroughly denied ever being molested by Jackson, and confirmed that he and Jackson looked through a book about STDs, not pornography!

73 Comments leave one →
  1. June 9, 2016 11:03 am

    I’ve been surfing on-line more than 3 hours nowadays, yet I by no means discovered any attention-grabbing article like yours.

    It is lovely worth enough for me. In my view, if all webmasters
    and bloggers made just right content as you did, the web can be
    a lot more useful than ever before.

  2. stacy2 permalink
    November 20, 2015 4:35 am

    Is Jason Francia claiming that MJ molested him once a year for 3 years? I’m just trying to make sure that I’m reading this correctly.

  3. February 6, 2013 3:18 am

    Many thanks for spending time in order to publish “Fact Checking Michael Jackson’s Christian Faith, Part 5 of 7:
    Exposing the Lies of the “Youth Minister” Jason Francia Michael Jackson
    Vindication 2.0”. Thank you once again ,Elizabeth

  4. lacienegasmiles permalink
    September 23, 2012 4:42 pm

    He’s not defending MJ, he defends himself. He wants to ride on MJ’s coat tails now, but in 2005 he was out giving interviews to Bashir and others to trash talk MJ. He’s always denied being touched by him, but he helped reinforce the negative POV of MJ in public. He can claim whatever, it doesn’t change that at Michael’s lowest point he wanted to sell MJ out.

    I mean, that article even says it all:

    In February he made news in an interview with the British journalist Martin Bashir, in which he said that he had come to a sickening realization that the molestation charges against Mr. Jackson might be true. Mr. Feldman, had a falling-out with Mr. Jackson in 2001, says that he was shocked by the verdict.

    I have no time for his proclamations of MJ love now. “You have no idea of the love between us” or whatever he tweeted. Whatever.

  5. sanemjfan permalink
    September 23, 2012 1:51 pm

    I added an update at the end of this post that includes photos of Corey Feldman’s recent tweets defending MJ and denying that he was ever abused by him. He was attacked by fans who accused him of betraying MJ during the trial by insinuating that MJ showed him porn in the early 1990’s, but Feldman verified that it wasn’t porn, but a book with photos of STDs.

  6. stacy permalink
    July 20, 2012 8:19 pm

    Jason claimed he refused to testify in criminal court in 1994 because he was “ashamed” and afraid that fellow schoolers will mock him.

    Policement explained him numerously that his name and image will be unknown to media, ones are protected by law. The only way how Jason could be ridiculed by fellow schoolers if he himself confessed to them. And Jason understood this all, he was 14, and he was informed numerously by police that it is totally safe for him to testify.

    So he refused to testify not because he was embarrased and ashamed. Jason told his story to therapists in sessions, to policemen, to lawyers. But all of sudden he was shy to tell about in court with full personality protection to jail his molester once for good.

    Is this because mother and son were not shy or embarrassed to meet FIVE civil plaintiff lawyers in 1994-1996 years (Jason admitted talking to lawyers), starting from Larry Feldman, threatening to file civil suit against Jackson with nasty hearings that would last for 7 years?

    Is this because Jason got $2m and his mother $400 000 — the sum she earns, as maid, in 20 years?

  7. sanemjfan permalink
    June 21, 2012 3:29 pm

    I updated the post to include the news that Ed Chernoff’s law firm has closed! You know what they say about karma……..

Trackbacks

  1. April 11th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Bob Jones, Stacy Brown, June Chandler, and Dwayne Swingler, Part 1 of 4 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  2. April 5th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Jason Francia (Cross Examination), Kris Kallman, Blanca Francia (Direct & Cross Examination) « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  3. April 4th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Jesus Salas (Direct & Cross Examination), Jason Francia (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 4 of 4 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  4. March 18th, 2005 Trial Summary: 1108 Prior Bad Acts Evidence Hearing (No Witnesses Testified), Part 1 of 2 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  5. March 15th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Gavin Arvizo (Cross Examination), Terry Flaa, Jeff Klapakis, and Steve Robel (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 4 of 4 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  6. February 28th – March 1st, 2005 Trial Analysis: Summary of Sneddon and Mesereau’s Opening Statements « Vindicating Michael
  7. It’s Not Up To Michael Jackson’s Fans To Prove That He Was Innocent; It’s Up To Michael Jackson’s HATERS To Prove That He Was GUILTY! « Vindicating Michael
  8. Michael Jackson’s Enemies Are LITERALLY One Big Happy Family! « Vindicating Michael

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