March 4th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Direct and Cross Examination of Davellin Arvizo, Part 2 of 2
Next, Mesereau questions her about her family’s interactions with the DCFS in the 1990’s, and Davellin’s testimony further exposes the absolute dysfunction in her family! There was domestic violence by both parents, the children were abused, and Davellin was forced to find out as a teenager that her father had once sexually abused her! She didn’t know until her mother told her about it in front of police!
14 Q. Were you ever interviewed by the Department
15 of Children & Family Services during the 1990s.
16 A. One lady had came over to the East L.A.
18 Q. Do you know approximately when that was.
19 A. No, I don’t.
20 Q. Okay. Were you interviewed.
21 A. I don’t remember if I was.
22 Q. Do you know if Gavin was interviewed.
23 A. I don’t remember if any of us were. I know
24 she spoke to my mom; but I don’t know if we were
25 interviewed. I don’t remember.
26 Q. Did you ever talk to your mom about that
28 A. No. 872
1 Q. Ever discussed it with your mom.
2 A. No.
3 Q. You don’t know what happened.
4 A. I don’t remember.
5 Q. Okay. Now, at some point you reported your
6 father to the Los Angeles police, right.
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. Okay. Did you ever discuss with your mother
9 in advance what you were going to say to the police.
10 A. No, I didn’t.
11 Q. Never talked about it at all with her.
12 A. I kept it to myself for a couple days,
13 because I was scared.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Still scared of him. And then I told her
16 what happened. And then she told me we should tell
17 the police.
18 Q. Okay. And did you call the police.
19 A. She called the police, and then the
20 detective came over.
21 Q. Okay. You told the police that you were
22 being abused five times a week — five times a week,
24 A. We were abused every day, more than once, by
25 my father.
26 Q. Okay. Were you there when your mother was
28 A. I — I don’t remember if she was 873
1 interviewed. I just remember the detective coming
2 to the East L.A. apartment.
3 Q. Okay. And did you accuse your father of
4 falsely imprisoning you.
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, did your
7 mother accuse your father of falsely imprisoning
9 A. Not that I remember.
10 Q. Okay. And did you accuse your father of
11 terrorist threats.
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. Did your mother accuse your father of
14 terrorist threats.
15 A. Not that I remember.
16 Q. All right. And you accused your father of
17 willful harm to a child, right.
18 A. I don’t know what that is.
19 Q. Okay. Okay. But were you present when your
20 mother told the LAPD that your father had molested
22 A. No, but I had heard when he had asked her,
23 “If you want to get anything off your chest,” and
24 she said, “Yes,” and that’s when they went to the
25 kitchen area of the East L.A. apartment.
26 Q. But when you were interviewed by the police,
27 you never told them your father had molested you,
28 did you. 874
1 A. Because they weren’t asking me about that,
2 and I didn’t know. I was very young.
3 Q. Okay. Okay.
4 Have you ever discussed with your mother
5 what your father did to you.
6 A. They were both present that day.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. He had — she had said, “Well, I never told
9 Davellin that.” And he says, “Well” — he said,
10 “Well, she doesn’t need to know anyways.”
11 It was just a horrible experience for me to
12 find out that he did that to me when I was young.
13 Q. And you found that out through your mother.
14 A. From both of them. Because he had agreed to
15 it when I was standing right there. Because they
16 were having an argument, and my mom screamed it out
17 at him.
18 Q. And your father agreed he had done that.
19 A. Yeah.
However, the story of her being abused by her father is contradicted by what she said to family acquaintance Carol Lemere in 2000; Davellin told Lemere that Janet forced her to lie and say she had been abused by her father, even though she said it wasn’t true! You can read Lemere’s statement about this issue on page 27 of this document.
In this excerpt, Mesereau continues to ask Davellin about her mother’s solicitations for money from celebrities and police officers to pay for Gavin’s medical expenses, and Davellin continues to deny them, but her denials will be proven false later on in this trial:
13 Q. Okay. To your knowledge – and I’m only
14 asking what you know – who made contributions to
15 help Gavin pay for medical bills.
16 A. We never asked anybody for medical bills, to
17 help pay for it.
18 Q. Never did. Never asked Chris Tucker.
19 A. Never asked him for help.
20 Q. Never asked Louise Palanker.
21 A. We have medical insurance. We don’t need
22 help with our medical bills.
23 Q. Did you ever ask Louise Palanker.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Ever ask Chris Tucker.
26 A. No.
27 Q. Were the fund-raisers at The Laugh Factory
28 for medical expenses. 877
1 A. I don’t know. I was too young. I don’t
3 Q. Have you ever discussed the purpose of those
4 fund-raisers with your mom.
5 A. I don’t know. You’ll have to ask David.
6 Q. Did you ever discuss those fund-raisers with
7 your mom.
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you ever see an ad in a newspaper in
10 El Monte which said that Gavin’s chemotherapy
11 treatments cost $12,000 apiece. Did you ever see
12 that ad.
13 A. I don’t remember about that. All I remember
14 is Gavin’s picture. I don’t remember anything that
15 was in the newspaper.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. It was too long ago.
18 Q. Okay. Do you ever remember police officers
19 in Los Angeles having a fund-raiser to raise money
20 for Gavin’s medical bills.
21 A. They didn’t have a fund-raiser for us. What
22 the Los Angeles Police Department did was, Officer
23 Lassak brought his old Christmas tree for us. And
24 that’s all I remember them doing.
25 Q. Do you know who spoke to them about Gavin’s
27 A. Officers.
28 Q. Yes. 878
1 A. Officer Lassak spoke to the police
2 department about it.
3 Q. Who is Officer Lassak.
4 A. I met him through my LAPD Explorers.
5 Q. He was a friend of your mom, right.
6 A. He was a friend of the family, yes.
7 Q. Okay. And you — the last couple of years,
8 you’ve spoken to him from time to time.
9 A. I haven’t spoke to him.
10 Q. Did you ever see your mother speak to him.
11 A. I haven’t seen her speak to him. I work.
12 I’m a full-time student and full-time worker.
13 Q. Do you have any knowledge of your mother
14 speaking to Andrew Lassak of the LAPD.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Excuse me, Your Honor. I’m
16 going to object. At what point in time. Vague.
17 MR. MESEREAU: Sure. I’ll rephrase it, Your
19 Q. During the period of time, say, from January
20 to June of 2003, do you recall ever seeing Andrew
22 A. I don’t — the last time I saw him, we were
23 living at the East L.A. apartment and I was still
24 involved in Explorers.
25 Q. And approximately when was that, if you
27 A. I don’t remember. In the year 2001. I
28 don’t remember. 879
1 Q. Do you know if your mother was in contact
2 with Andrew Lassak during 2003.
3 A. I know he would come and visit us once in a
4 while, but I don’t know.
5 Q. Do you know about your mother approaching
6 Andrew Lassak about raising money to pay for Gavin’s
7 medical expenses.
8 A. She never approached him that way.
9 Q. Now, how do you know that.
10 A. Because that never happened.
11 Q. It never happened.
12 A. No.
13 Q. And you’re not aware of any LAPD police
14 officers trying to raise, you know, funds to pay
15 Gavin’s medical expenses.
16 A. No. Not that I remember. Not that I know
18 Q. Did you know anything about Chris Tucker
19 sending $2,000 to your mom.
20 A. No. I don’t know that.
21 Q. Did you ever discuss that with Chris Tucker.
22 A. No. We’re not going to bring up anything
23 like that.
24 Q. Do you know if Fritz Coleman helped arrange
25 to raise any money for Gavin’s medical expenses.
26 A. I don’t know. Our medical bills are paid by
27 insurance. I don’t know —
28 Q. And I agree with you on that. That’s why I 880
1 have to ask you about this.
2 Did Fritz Coleman ever get involved in a
3 fund-raiser for Gavin at The Laugh Factory.
4 A. I didn’t know about the fund-raisers. The
5 only one that I know is the one I met Chris at.
6 Q. At The Laugh Factory, right.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. The fund-raiser to pay for Gavin’s medical
9 costs, right.
10 A. I guess it was a fund-raiser. But it was
11 just like a graduation, like we had. It didn’t look
12 like a fund-raiser or anything. It just looked like
13 a get-together.
Later on in his cross-examination, Mesereau asked Davellin about her interactions with Bashir prior to the filming of his scene with Gavin in September 2002. Davellin mentioned that she thought it was a “personal video” that was being shot by Bashir, similar to the one that was shot below in 2000, as Gavin was battling his cancer:
17 Q. Okay. So you’ve never really discussed with
18 Gavin what appears in that documentary.
19 A. No. Well, when they were filming it, I was
20 standing right there. So….
21 Q. Did you meet Mr. Bashir.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And was the day of the taping the first time
24 you met Mr. Bashir.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Did you ever discuss what Mr. Bashir was
27 doing with him.
28 A. No. We didn’t talk to Mr. Bashir. We just 895
1 said hi.
2 Q. Okay. But after you and Gavin and Star were
3 taped, did you go home and discuss what happened
4 with your mom.
5 A. We just told her that we got filmed, but we
6 thought it was just one of his personal videos.
7 Q. Okay. And when you say “personal video,”
8 what are you talking about.
9 A. Like because Gavin had been taped before,
10 during his cancer, with Star. And it was just a
11 personal video, like for Mr. Jackson.
12 Q. And that was a personal video about Gavin’s
13 recovering from cancer, right.
14 A. No, this was during his cancer.
15 Q. But it was about him trying to recover from
16 it, wasn’t it.
17 A. I don’t know.
18 Q. Did you ever see it.
19 A. I just saw it once.
20 Q. Where did you see it.
21 A. At Hamid’s house.
Later on in his cross-examination, Mesereau questioned Davellin about the positive statements that she made about Jackson in her interview with private investigator Bradley Miller. Davellin said she couldn’t remember making any positive statements, and when Mesereau asked her if showing her the transcript of her interview would refresh her recollection, she said it wouldn’t!
15 Q. All right. You indicated that an
16 investigator named Bradley Miller took a recorded
17 statement from your whole family.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Right.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And that was at Jay Jackson’s apartment,
23 A. Yes, it was.
24 Q. And Jay Jackson was actually in and out,
25 wasn’t he.
26 A. No, he was sitting right there.
27 Q. Okay. So you’re at Jay Jackson’s home, with
28 Jay Jackson sitting there, and an investigator is 914
1 taking a statement. And nobody complains about
2 Dieter, Konitzer, Frank, Vinnie, Schaffel, or
3 anybody, right.
4 A. I don’t think it was at that point. He just
5 asked us to speak of things of my father.
6 Q. Okay. But I’m asking if your mother at that
7 point ever called the police or did anything that
8 suggested that Ronald, Dieter, Frank, Vinnie,
9 anybody was causing problems.
10 A. I guess — I don’t know. You have to ask
11 her what she thought.
12 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, when you were being
13 interviewed by Brad Miller, he asked you about
14 David, right.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you talked about things like child
17 endangerment and terrorist threats, right.
18 A. I don’t remember what I said. All I know is
19 I talked about David.
20 Q. Okay. You talked about abusive behavior by
21 him, right.
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling Brad Miller
24 that Michael is a father to all of you.
25 A. I don’t remember what I said on the tape.
26 It was very long ago. All I remember is the key
27 point was on David.
28 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling Brad Miller 915
1 Michael has given your family safety, love, and
2 everything you’ve ever wanted.
3 A. I don’t remember what I said. All I
4 remember is the key point was about David.
5 Q. Okay. Would it refresh your recollection if
6 I just showed you a transcript of what you said.
7 A. No, it wouldn’t. I would have to hear my
8 own voice.
9 Q. You don’t want to see this.
10 A. No, it’s okay.
11 Q. Okay. Okay. Did your mother ever tell you
12 that, “We’re being forced to make positive
13 statements about Michael Jackson in the interview
14 with Brad Miller”.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Excuse me, Your Honor. I’m
16 going to object as to what point in time. Vague;
17 lack of foundation.
18 THE COURT: Sustained; time.
19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: We’re talking about
20 Sunday, February 16th, 2003. Okay. And that’s the
21 approximate time you were at Jay Jackson’s apartment
22 being interviewed by Brad Miller, right.
23 A. You’re asking me what.
24 Q. Well, I’m asking you if that sounds like the
25 approximate time you were interviewed by Brad
27 A. I don’t know the date. All I know is that
28 he came to Jay Jackson’s house. 916
In this excerpt, Mesereau was able to catch Davellin in another lie, and this was a major coup for the defense, as it undermined one of the allegations against Jackson. Davellin told Sneddon under direct examination that Jackson poured a glass of wine and handed it to Davellin to drink as he and her brothers were in the wine cellar, but Mesereau got her to admit that she did not tell that to investigators during her police interviews in 2003 and 2004! Davellin said she “didn’t know she had to say every little detail”:
20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Ms. Arvizo, you testified
21 yesterday that you went into the arcade area at
22 Neverland one time.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. A juke box was moved and you went into a
25 wine cellar, correct.
26 A. No, I had saw some people going down in the
27 staircase, so I just followed.
28 Q. Okay. And you’ve testified that you saw 926
1 Michael Jackson pouring wine, correct.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You said that Michael Jackson gave you a
4 glass of wine to drink, right.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you said it tasted —
7 A. Funny.
8 Q. Funny.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You didn’t want to drink it, right.
11 A. I only took a couple of sips, yes.
12 Q. Okay. Do you remember you were interviewed
13 by the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Department July 6th,
14 2003, and asked questions about that.
15 A. I know I was asked questions about it, yes.
16 Q. You were asked by a Santa Barbara sheriff
17 how you knew it was wine, right.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And your answer was, you knew it was wine
20 because it’s a wine cellar and there’s nothing else
21 to be drinking in a wine cellar, right.
22 A. Yes, there is wine bottles along the left
24 Q. Never told them you had seen Michael Jackson
25 pouring wine from any bottle, correct.
26 A. They never asked me that question, but I did
27 see him.
28 Q. Well, they asked you how you knew it was 927
1 wine, and your answer was, “They were in a wine
2 cellar and there’s nothing else to be drinking in a
3 wine cellar,” correct.
4 A. I’m not going to grab a cup off the counter.
5 It was handed to me.
6 Q. Well, why didn’t you tell that to the Santa
7 Barbara sheriffs then.
8 A. They didn’t ask me about it.
9 Q. Well, they actually did. Would it refresh
10 your recollection to show you the police report.
11 A. I just told them about the building. And
12 they said how did I know it was wine. Because it
13 was a wine cellar.
14 Q. But yesterday, you said you saw Michael
15 Jackson pouring a bottle of wine into a cup, true.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. That’s not what you told the sheriffs on
18 that day, right.
19 A. Well, I was in a wine cellar also. I didn’t
20 know I had to say every little detail. I was young
21 back then. I didn’t know I had to say every little
22 detail for it to be right. Different things come
24 Q. Okay. On that particular day, you never
25 said you saw Michael Jackson pouring wine and you
26 never even told them that he gave you wine, right.
27 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as
28 argumentative and asked and answered. 928
1 THE COURT: Sustained.
2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did someone tell you that
3 when the defense lawyer asks you questions in court,
4 if you’ve got a problem, to say, “I was very young
5 and I just don’t remember”.
6 A. No, that’s — I have no way of knowing,
7 because it was years ago. I was very young.
8 Q. Did you ever use that stock phrase in
9 answering any of the prosecutor’s questions.
10 A. I don’t know. Maybe I did; maybe I didn’t.
11 I don’t know.
12 Q. Now, nobody told you that, when in trouble
13 or when in doubt, that’s what you say.
14 A. Nobody told me what to say. When I say it,
15 it’s from me.
I want to take a moment to point out an important defense cross-examination technique that Mesereau that he just demonstrated in the above excerpt. During a speech at Cumberland School of Law in the Spring of 2007, Mesereau spoke about getting a witness to “reveal their flawed character, inherent dishonesty, or rehearsed testimony”, because doing so causes them to lose credibility in front of the jury, and Davellin certainly lost credibility when Mesereau pointed out her rehearsed “I was very young” answers to numerous questions! Mesereau encouraged Davellin to keep repeating that response by asking her similar questions about events that happened in the past, and she fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
In deciding what you wish to accomplish in a witness examination, you are always weighing costs and benefits. Everything you do has a benefit and a drawback associated with it. If your goal is to get the witnesses to reveal their flawed character, inherent dishonesty or rehearsed testimony, it is harder to accomplish this if you ask questions that require tight control. It may be that asking a “how” or “why” question is worth the candle no matter what the witness says. In fact, if you think a witness has blindly rehearsed a response that the jury will see through, you may want to encourage that response. The price you have learned about in your trial practice class may be worth paying in order to reap a greater benefit in the trial.
Next, Mesereau questions Davellin about her family’s trip to the Laugh Factory after finishing their interview with Bradley Miller at Jay Jackson’s house, and Davellin denies having any knowledge of why her family didn’t complain about being held against their will at Neverland to Jamie Masada or Bill Dickerman:
16 Q. Okay. You mentioned that, at one point, you
17 drove to The Laugh Factory on Sunset, right.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And The Laugh Factory is on a corner on
20 Sunset in Los Angeles, right.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You’ve been there many times, right.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you said you met a lawyer at The Laugh
25 Factory, right.
26 A. I didn’t know who he was. I just saw — I
27 just was introduced that he was Bill. I just ran up
28 there real quick to give my mom the message that 929
1 Vinnie had given me. I didn’t know who he was.
2 Q. But correct me if I’m wrong, you were in a
3 car, you drive to The Laugh Factory, right. Your
4 mom gets out, right.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. She goes into The Laugh Factory, right.
7 A. Her and Gavin go in together and Vinnie
8 asked us to stay.
9 Q. And they see a civil lawyer in there, right.
10 A. I didn’t know who he was at that point.
11 Q. But you do know now, right.
12 A. I still kind of really don’t know.
13 Q. Well, you’ve had meetings with him.
14 A. I know he’s a lawyer, but I don’t know.
15 Q. How many times have you met with him.
16 A. Once.
17 Q. And when was that, approximately.
18 A. I don’t remember.
19 Q. Well, let me ask you this: Your mother went
20 into The Laugh Factory and met with Jamie Masada and
21 a lawyer named Dickerman, right.
22 A. I just saw him there. I didn’t know he was
23 a lawyer at that point.
24 Q. And to your knowledge, your mother never
25 complained that anybody’s being falsely imprisoned
26 or abused or told what to say or restrained or
28 A. You got to ask her. I don’t know. 930
1 Q. Have you ever discussed what she said to
2 that lawyer with her.
3 A. I don’t know.
4 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to
5 object to that question. Lack of foundation. And
6 also, it could be a violation of attorney-client
8 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, that privilege
9 was waived a long time ago.
10 MR. SNEDDON: No, it wasn’t.
11 THE COURT: I’ll allow the question.
12 Actually, there is — the question and the answer
13 was given before the objection. The question was,
14 “Have you ever discussed what she said to that
15 lawyer with her.”
16 “Answer: I don’t know.”
17 Next question.
18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: To your knowledge, when
19 your mother and Gavin got out of the car, went into
20 The Laugh Factory, saw a lawyer, saw Jamie Masada,
21 they never complained that anyone was being held
22 against their will, to your knowledge, right.
23 A. All I knew is that they were going in to see
24 Jamie Masada. I walked in, saw Bill, Mr. Masada, my
25 mom and Gavin sitting there, and I gave my mom the
26 message Vinnie had given me, and I walked right out.
27 I don’t know what they said. I don’t know what
28 happened. 931
1 Q. And you’ve never, to this day, discussed
2 with your mother what was said.
3 A. No.
Next, Mesereau asks Davellin if she or her family tried to get help during their visit to the federal building to get their passports for their trip to Brazil. Davellin asserted that her family didn’t try to get help because Jackson’s people were “that scary”:
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You left Jay Jackson’s and
17 you went to The Laugh Factory, right.
18 A. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I
19 don’t remember.
20 Q. When you left Jay Jackson’s after the
21 tape-recorded statement, did you go to Neverland or
22 The Laugh Factory.
23 A. I think that’s the point I went to The Laugh
24 Factory. I’m not sure.
25 Q. Okay. Did you leave Major Jay Jackson at
26 his residence.
27 A. Yeah.
28 Q. Did Vinnie pick you up at Major Jay 934
1 Jackson’s home.
2 A. I think it was Vinnie. Because Vinnie’s the
3 one that brought us to The Laugh Factory, but I’m
4 not sure. But I know he was the one that took us to
5 The Laugh Factory.
6 Q. Okay. Did Vinnie take you to Hamid
7 Moslehi’s home as well.
8 A. No. It was Hamid that came and picked us up
9 at Neverland.
10 Q. What kind of car did Vinnie drive.
11 A. They had the — it’s like a silver Buick. I
12 think it was a Buick. I’m not sure.
13 Q. Do you remember when you went to get a
15 A. I kind of do, but I know we went to, like,
16 an office-type place, but —
17 Q. Well, it was a federal building, wasn’t it.
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. And that was in Los Angeles, right.
20 A. Yes, it was.
21 Q. And Vinnie drove you; is that correct.
22 A. Yes. Yes, it is.
23 Q. And he parked the car somewhere near the
24 federal building, right.
25 A. I guess, yeah.
26 Q. And you were with your mom, right.
27 A. Yeah, we were all together.
28 Q. With Gavin and Star, right. 935
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You parked your car, and all of you got out
3 of the car and walked into the federal building,
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you ever hear anybody scream, “Help,
7 we’re being held against our will,” or words to that
9 A. No.
10 Q. There were federal employees and agents all
11 over that building, right.
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. And nobody said a word, right.
14 A. Yeah. They’re that scary.
Here’s another blow to the prosecution: Davellin admitted that both she and her mother lied to the DCFS during their interview! Davellin lied about bringing a friend with her to Neverland, and she admitted that Janet lied about never leaving the guest cottage at Neverland.
15 Q. Your mother came up with the idea of calling
16 Michael Jackson “Daddy,” right.
17 A. No.
18 Q. You testified yesterday that your mother
19 never came out of the cottage, right.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And that’s not true, is it.
22 A. That is true.
23 Q. Your mother was in the theater from time to
24 time, was she not.
25 A. No.
26 Q. You were never in the theater with your
27 mother and your brothers watching a film at
28 Neverland. 936
1 A. On the first visit, I think we went and all
2 saw something. That was the very first visit of —
3 with David and everything. But other than that, I
4 don’t remember us going in the theater.
5 Q. Do you remember the time you, your mother,
6 Gavin and Star and Michael Jackson were in the
7 theater and your mother asked everyone to “kneel
8 down and say a prayer to Daddy”.
9 A. I don’t remember that.
10 Q. Do you ever remember being in the theater at
11 Neverland with your mother, Gavin, Star and Michael
13 A. I don’t remember that.
14 Q. Do you ever remember being with your mother
15 at this zoo at Neverland.
16 A. On the very, very first visit when we all
17 came up together with David, we did go to the zoo.
18 Q. Are you saying that, after that, your mother
19 never left her cottage.
20 A. My mom didn’t leave her cottage.
21 Q. Were her meals served at the cottage, to
22 your knowledge.
23 A. Yes, they were brought to her.
24 Q. Three times a day.
25 A. I think it’s — I don’t know. I wasn’t
27 Q. Do you remember, your mother told the three
28 social workers from the Los Angeles Department of 937
1 Children & Family Services that she’s always at the
2 main residence.
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Remember, she told those workers that she’s
5 there all times of day.
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. Do you think your mother was lying.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you think your mother lied throughout
10 that interview.
11 A. Somewhat. I don’t know. But I know those
12 comments can’t be true.
13 Q. And that was the day you lied about bringing
14 girlfriends to Neverland, right.
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. And you’re telling this jury that you’ve
17 never brought any girlfriend to Neverland.
18 A. No.
19 Q. But you told it to the Los Angeles
20 Department of Children & Family Services.
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Did you discuss with your mother ahead of
23 time that you were going to tell those social
24 workers that you bring your girlfriend to Neverland.
25 A. Not that I remember, no.
26 Q. You don’t remember ever talking to your mom
27 about what you were going to say.
28 A. Not that I remember, no. 938
1 Q. Okay. Were you in the room when your mother
2 told her lies to the social workers.
3 A. I don’t know if it was all lies. I don’t
4 know. I don’t remember what was said.
5 Q. But you remember some of them were lies,
7 A. Yeah, I remember — when you tell me certain
8 things, I do remember.
Mesereau then continued to ask Davellin about why she and her family never tried to get help during their shopping sprees:
26 Q. You testified when you were at the Calabasas
27 Inn, you went shopping, right.
28 A. Yes. 942
1 Q. Where did you go shopping.
2 A. For the suitcases, we went to an outlet
3 mall. And then for the clothes, we went to like a
5 Q. And you went to a number of stores in the
6 mall where you bought clothes, right.
7 A. No, we just went to one department store.
8 That’s all I remember.
9 Q. Do you recall anyone in that department
10 store saying words to the effect, “Help, we’re being
11 restrained or held against our will.”
12 A. No, none of us said that. Vinnie was with
13 us the whole time.
14 Q. You said you went to a — was it a
15 Walgreen’s where you had a photo taken.
16 A. Yes, we did.
17 Q. Where was that Walgreen’s located, if you
19 A. Near Calabasas, I guess. It was when we
20 were at Calabasas.
21 Q. When you went into the Walgreen’s, do you
22 recall anybody saying words to the effect, “Help,
23 we’re being held against our will”.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay. Do you recall security personnel in
26 any of those malls.
27 A. I don’t remember.
28 Q. Do you recall security personnel in 943
2 A. I don’t think so.
3 Q. Do you recall security personnel in the
4 store you went and bought clothes at.
5 A. There was — I don’t remember seeing any.
6 Q. Where did you eat that day when you were
7 shopping; do you know.
8 A. I don’t remember.
9 Q. It was not at the hotel, right.
10 A. I think there was the one time he took us to
11 eat somewhere. I don’t remember.
12 Q. But you certainly don’t recall your mom or
13 anybody telling anybody at the restaurant, “Help us,
14 we’re being restrained or held against our will,”
16 A. No, I don’t.
17 Q. Okay. How long were you in Walgreen’s; do
18 you know.
19 A. 20 minutes.
20 Q. And you had your photo taken.
21 A. All of us did.
In this excerpt, Mesereau asked Davellin about her knowledge of her family’s actions during the JC Penney lawsuit. He wanted to know if she knew about Gavin and Star being told by Janet to write their version of events down on paper in order for them to be scrutinized and edited by Janet, and he also asked Davellin about whether she knew that Janet told people that David’s brother Ray was a member of the Mexican Mafia and would kill people if given the order. These questions were asked because David Arvizo told Mesereau’s private investigator that Janet forced Star and Gavin to memorize a script of events for the JC Penney case in order to sound more believable in court, and Mary Holzer (a paralegal for the law firm that represented Janet during the JC Penney case) told Mesreau’s private investigator that she was told by Janet that she would be killed by Ray Arvizo if she told anyone that Janet was lying about being sexually assaulted by those JC Penney security guards.
22 Q. Okay. Have you ever discussed the J.C.
23 Penney case with your dad.
24 A. Which dad. My stepfather or David.
25 Q. David.
26 A. No.
27 Q. Never talked to him about it at all.
28 A. No. 944
1 Q. And I think I asked you this earlier. If I
2 did, I apologize. You never discussed the J.C.
3 Penney case with Gavin or your mom, right.
4 A. None of them.
5 Q. Okay. Ever see your mom, during the J.C.
6 Penney case, ask your brothers to write out what
7 happened and then go over it with them.
8 A. No. The only — the only writing I saw was
9 David would sit at the kitchen table and write, but
10 that’s the only writing that I saw.
11 Q. Never saw your mother do it.
12 A. Never saw her write anything.
13 Q. Was David writing about what happened at
14 J.C. Penney.
15 A. I don’t know what he was writing, but I
16 think that he liked to do notes or whatever. I
17 don’t know.
18 Q. But why do you remember that when I
19 mentioned J.C. Penney.
20 A. Because that’s — that’s the only notes that
21 I remember.
22 Q. About J.C. Penney.
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. So you remember David writing notes about
25 J.C. Penney.
26 A. Yeah.
27 Q. Do you remember what he did with those
28 notes. 945
1 A. I don’t know. I guess he was just reviewing
2 what he thought or what happened to him or whatever.
3 I don’t know what he was writing about, really. But
4 I know that he would write a lot.
5 Q. About J.C. Penney, right.
6 A. I guess so. You have to ask him. I don’t
7 know what he was writing.
8 Q. But clearly, if this jogs your memory a
9 little bit, it must have been the time of that case
10 you saw David writing things out.
11 A. Yeah. He’s not really good with —
12 memory-wise, so I don’t know. You’ll have to ask
14 Q. Okay. Did you see David talking to your mom
15 about what he was writing.
16 A. I don’t remember what happened. I was too
17 young to remember. And all I remember about that
18 case is Gavin’s elbow, and we came and picked him
19 up. He was hurting and Star’s head was hurting.
20 That’s all I remember. I wasn’t involved in that
21 case at all.
22 Q. Okay. Okay. Do you recall your mom saying
23 that David’s brother Ray will have people killed.
24 A. David had said that.
25 Q. Pardon me.
26 A. David had told me that.
27 Q. Well, have you ever told people that your
28 mom talked about that. 946
1 A. No. David was the one that told that to me.
2 Q. Okay. Told you that he had a brother Ray
3 that can have people killed.
4 A. Well, I know he has a brother Ray, and David
5 always said, “Oh, my brother has connections,” and
6 stuff like that. And when he held me in that car
7 that time, that’s when he told me all those threats
8 and stuff.
9 Q. But your mom’s never discussed it, to your
11 A. No, she —
12 Q. Never talked about it.
13 A. No.
On February 28th, 2005 Mesereau filed a motion titled “MEMORANDUM REGARDING THE USE OF J.C. PENNEY ISSUES IN DEFENSE OPENING STATEMENT”, which included interviews with David Arvizo and Mary Holzer.
Here is an excerpt of David Arvizo’s interview Mesereau’s private investigator, where he describes how Janet ordered Gavin and Star to study and memorize a script of what happened during their arrest at J.C. Penney every day for a whole year before their depositions! (pages 9-10)
Here is an excerpt of Mary Holzer’s interview with Mesereau’s private investigator where she discusses how Janet Arvizo enrolled her children in acting classes in order to train them to say whatever she wanted to them to say. (pages 48-49):
For more information on Janet’s shakedown of J.C. Penney, please read this post.
In this exchange, Mesereau chides Davellin for giving what appears to be a rehearsed and scripted answer multiple times to his questions, and is himself admonished by Judge Melville for arguing with the witness (refer to the quote by Mesereau earlier in this post about his technique of getting witnesses to repeat rehearsed answers):
23 Q. Okay. Do you know Arlene Kennedy.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Who was Arlene Kennedy.
26 A. She was the owner of the dance studio that
27 we went to.
28 Q. When did you last talk to her; do you know. 948
1 A. A while ago. I don’t remember.
2 Q. Do you remember your mother telling Mrs.
3 Kennedy that the press were causing havoc after the
4 Bashir documentary.
5 A. I don’t remember. I know they were, but I
6 don’t remember if she told her or not.
7 Q. Okay. Your mother constantly complained
8 about the press causing problems after Bashir,
10 A. Well, they’d mainly go to my grandparents’
11 house. Only one person came to the East L.A.
12 apartment. And my grandparents are old and just —
13 she just wanted to protect them and not have them go
14 through that.
15 Q. But you just said the press was causing
16 havoc, right.
17 A. Yeah, at my grandparents’ house. That’s
18 where they would go.
19 Q. But your mother always complained about the
20 press causing problems, after Bashir, for your
21 family, right.
22 A. Well, they are family. Those are my
24 Q. No, your mother was complaining about what
25 the press was trying to do to you and Gavin and Star
26 and she, right.
27 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to
28 object as vague as to when and where; lack of 949
2 MR. MESEREAU: Sure. I thought I said after
3 the Bashir —
4 MR. SNEDDON: Well, that’s wide open.
5 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: All right.
7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Shortly after the Bashir
8 documentary, your family was hassled by media, true.
9 A. Just one came to the East L.A. apartment
10 where we were at. The rest were constantly going to
11 my grandparents’ house.
12 Q. Now, it sounds like you’ve memorized that
13 answer, because you’ve said the same identical
14 answer so many times.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative. Ask
16 that be stricken.
17 THE COURT: Sustained as argumentative.
18 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll withdraw it.
19 Q. After the Bashir documentary, is it true
20 that your mother spoke to a lot of people in your
21 presence and complained about the media.
22 A. Yes. The media that was going to my
23 grandparents’ house. That’s where my mom’s, like,
24 driver’s license and everything is registered at.
25 Q. After the Bashir documentary, didn’t your
26 mother constantly complain about the way Gavin was
28 A. One reporter — okay, one — there were two 950
1 of them together, but it was one that came to the
2 East L.A. apartment. The rest were going to my
3 grandparents’ house. That’s all I remember.
4 THE COURT: Just a moment. You’re not
5 listening to the question. He’s not asking you what
6 happened. He’s asking you about a complaint.
7 Would you read the question back to her.
8 (Record read.)
9 THE WITNESS: No. Only one came to the
10 apartment, and I don’t know.
11 THE COURT: Just — no, just answer the
13 THE WITNESS: No.
14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you go over that
15 answer with anyone before you testified today.
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you — in your meeting with Mr. Sneddon,
18 did you talk about what your response to that
19 question was going to be.
20 A. No, we didn’t talk about that.
21 Q. Did anyone tell you to memorize that answer
22 and just repeat it every time you were asked that
24 A. No.
25 Q. You’d agree that whenever you’re asked that
26 question, the same identical words come out.
27 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object, and ask
28 that be stricken and counsel be admonished. This is 951
1 like the fourth time within the last five minutes.
2 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll withdraw it.
3 MR. SNEDDON: I’ll order — ask that the
4 jury be ordered to disregard the statement of
6 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.
7 You’re admonished not to argue with the witness.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, sir.
In this excerpt, Mesereau asks Davellin about Janet’s claims that actor George Lopez stole $300 dollars from Gavin:
9 Q. You said George Lopez was a close friend of
10 your family, correct.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And when did you last see George Lopez.
13 A. It was during Gavin’s cancer, because
14 David’s the one that demolished that relationship.
15 Q. Did you meet with him a number of times.
16 A. He would go to the hospital and visit Gavin.
17 Q. And were you there when he visited Gavin.
18 A. Yes, he would bring him, like, a little toy
19 car and stuff.
20 Q. Did you ever see him at The Laugh Factory.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. How many times, if you can estimate.
23 A. We saw him much — he was the one that was
24 our personal one that they had chosen for us, to
25 teach us how to do our little comedy acts.
26 Q. Did he teach you and your brothers how to do
27 comedy routines.
28 A. While we were at The Laugh Factory, yes. 952
1 Q. Was he part of the class you took there.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. At some time, your father had a falling out
4 with George Lopez, right.
5 A. What do you mean by that. Like the
6 relationship was gone.
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. Well, because of David’s fault, yes.
9 Q. Okay. At some point, your mother accused
10 George Lopez of stealing 300 bucks from Gavin,
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did you ever hear anything about that.
14 A. No. I never heard anything like that.
15 Q. Well, you certainly heard something about
16 why the relationship ended —
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. — right.
19 And you’re blaming that all on David, right.
20 A. Yes. Because he went and he argued with
22 Q. Do you know what he argued about.
23 A. All I know is it was an open event, and he
24 went to argue with George about — I don’t know what
25 it was about. And after that, George didn’t — told
26 him he didn’t want to see him ever again.
27 Q. After that event, did George ever see your
28 mother, you, Gavin or Star again. 953
1 A. He didn’t come and see us anymore.
2 Q. Did you try to reach him.
3 A. No. David had told us that George didn’t
4 want to see us anymore.
Mesereau finished up the day’s testimony by asking Davellin about an incident where Gavin shot both her and Janet with a BB gun after they returned home from Neverland! She also claimed that she had no knowledge of her brothers ever being caught in the wine cellar alone at Neverland.
4 Q. Now, getting back to your comments that you
5 saw a change in your brother at some point.
6 Remember those comments you made in response to the
7 prosecutor’s questions.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you have any knowledge of an event where
10 Gavin —
11 THE COURT: They can’t hear you now.
12 THE BAILIFF: You have your book on the
13 microphone. You turned it off.
14 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, the book’s on the….
15 Q. Do you recall an event where your brother
16 Gavin shot your mother with a BB gun.
17 A. Yes, I do. He shot me also.
18 Q. When did that happen.
19 A. That was after we came back from — after we
20 left Neverland for good.
21 Q. Okay. And he took a BB gun and shot the two
22 of you.
23 A. Yes, he did. He was always — from the
24 point that he left Neverland, he had changed
25 dramatically into an aggressive person.
26 Q. But he never was aggressive in school before
27 he had gone to Neverland, is that what you’re
28 saying. 955
1 A. No, he never got into fights and stuff at
2 school, not that I remember. He was just very
4 Q. But he was thrown out, wasn’t he.
5 A. No, he was never thrown out of school.
6 Q. Was he ever thrown out of class, to your
8 A. I don’t know.
9 Q. You don’t know.
10 A. Gavin had never been aggressive to me and my
11 mom before.
12 Q. Are you aware of your brothers, Star and
13 Gavin, ever being caught in the wine cellar at
14 Neverland alone.
15 A. No. They were always with Michael.
16 Q. How do you know that.
17 A. Because that’s — I never saw them anywhere
18 by themselves. If I did see them, they were with
20 Q. Didn’t you say that you didn’t hang out with
21 them at Neverland.
22 A. Yeah, but I would go around the ranch. And
23 every time that I saw them passing by, or I would go
24 in a room that they were, like, in the office or
25 anything, they were with him.
26 Q. Did you ever learn that Gavin and Star were
27 caught breaking into the wine cellar at Neverland
28 without Michael Jackson anywhere in sight. 956
1 A. No, I never heard of that.
2 Q. Did you ever learn that Gavin and Star were
3 caught with alcohol at other parts of Neverland
4 without Michael Jackson ever being there.
5 A. Not that — I never heard of that ever.
6 Q. Never heard of that at all.
7 A. No.
8 Q. Okay.
9 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
11 THE COURT: I can tell it’s late Friday
12 afternoon. Can’t you.
13 Let me have counsel approach for a second.
14 MR. SNEDDON: May I go this way, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: Yes.
16 (Off-the-record discussion held at sidebar.)
17 THE COURT: We’ve had a very serious
18 conference here. We’re going to quit ten minutes
19 early. I can — I can tell when things are going
22 Let me remind you, you know, the
23 admonishment applies every day, every minute. But
24 we’re going — we’ve gone through a long week here,
25 and now we’re going to go through a weekend. And
26 it’s extremely important that you keep in mind that
27 you don’t talk to anybody about the case or anything
28 related to the case, don’t watch news reports or 957
1 listen to television, none of that.
2 Remember the admonition. It’s extremely
3 important. People are watching you. You know,
4 you’re — people in the community are watching you.
5 And it’s just — just so important that you follow
6 this admonition.
7 And another important admonition is don’t
8 form any opinions about this case until you’ve heard
9 all the evidence, you’ve heard the instructions of
10 the law, and you’ve had an opportunity to hear
11 counsel argue their — how they think the facts and
12 the law come together for your judgment.
13 If you reach the judgment before all of that
14 happens, you would be short-changing one side or the
15 other, or both sides. Certainly the system of
16 justice. So let’s keep an open mind, and I’ll see
17 you Monday at 8:30.
18 One final thing. I’m announcing now that
19 the grand jury transcript is unsealed.
20 And Lorna, that has to be in the minutes.
21 THE CLERK: All right.
22 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:20 p.m.)
Davellin contradicted her earlier statement about the change in Gavin’s behavior by saying that he was more aggressive when he returned home from Neverland for the last time (and, as a result, shot her and Janet with a BB gun), when earlier, under Sneddon’s direct examination, she asserted that Gavin became more withdrawn and anti-social:
28 Q. Now, would you describe to the ladies and 795
1 gentlemen of the jury what changes that you
2 observed, after he left the ranch, in Gavin’s
4 A. He didn’t want nobody to talk to him. He
5 didn’t want to be hugged. He didn’t want to be
6 kissed. He didn’t want to do nothing. He just
7 wanted to be by himself. He didn’t want to talk to
8 me. He didn’t want to talk to anybody. It just
9 hurts, because I’m his older sister.
Davellin’s testimony concluded on March 7th, 2005, and Star Arvizo’s direct examination started that same day. It will be the next post in this series: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/05/25/march-7th-2005-trial-analysis-davellin-arvizo-cross-examination-and-star-arvizo-direct-examination-part-1-of-3/