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March 14th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Gavin Arvizo (Cross Examination), Part 1 of 4

June 17, 2012

There was no witness testimony on Friday, March 12th, and Mesereau’s cross examination of Gavin resumed on March 14th. He challenged Gavin’s previous statements that Jackson told him that “men must masturbate”, when he initially told detectives that it was his grandmother who told him that! When Gavin realized that he was caught in his own lie, he tried to explain that it was a weird coincidence that Jackson first taught him that, and then after escaping from Neverland his grandmother just happened to teach him the same thing, but not in the same exact words! Gavin tried to cover his lies by saying that he was “sure” that he told detectives in another interview that Jackson told him to masturbate!

21 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued)

22 BY MR. MESEREAU:

23 Q. Mr. Arvizo, on Thursday you testified about

24 how you learned what masturbation was. Remember

25 that.

26 A. I believe so.

27 Q. Pardon me.

28 A. I believe so. 1797

1 Q. Okay. And you testified that Mr. Jackson

2 told you what masturbation is, right.

3 A. Uh-huh.

4 Q. Is that true.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you testified to the jury that Mr.

7 Jackson said that if men don’t masturbate, that they

8 can get to a level where they can — might rape a

9 girl. Remember that.

10 A. Uh-huh.

11 Q. Do you remember saying that.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Do you remember being interviewed by the

14 Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Department on a number of

15 occasions.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And do you remember who interviewed you.

18 A. Most likely Steve Robel or Paul Zelis.

19 Q. Do you remember being asked, “Before we get

20 started on the next set of questions, can you

21 describe to us what your opinion is, what you think

22 masturbation is.” Do you remember one of the

23 sheriffs asked you that during an interview.

24 A. I believe so.

25 Q. And you knew those interviews were being

26 recorded, right.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Remember you said, “My grandma explained it 1798 

1 to me. She told me that — that your — the only

2 reason is because like if — if men don’t do it, men

3 might get to a point where they might go ahead and

4 rape a woman”. Do you remember saying that to the

5 sheriffs.

6 A. I believe so.

7 Q. Why did your story change between that

8 interview and your testimony last Thursday.

9 A. Well, what do you mean “changed”.

10 Q. Well, you told the police your grandmother

11 made that quote to you, and you came into court

12 under oath and told the jury Mr. Jackson made that

13 quote to you.

14 A. That didn’t change. Because Michael tried

15 to explain to me first. And I — he was more

16 pushing on me that men have to masturbate.

17 Now, later when I came back from Neverland,

18 I guess my grandmother saw that I was very confused

19 about sexuality and things like that. And my

20 grandmother explained to me a lot of things.

21 Q. So it just so happened that after Mr.

22 Jackson told you, “If a man doesn’t do it, they may

23 get to a point where they rape a woman,” your

24 grandmother made the almost identical quote to you.

25 Is that what you’re saying.

26 A. Not really. She didn’t make the same exact

27 thing that Michael said. But I’m not exactly sure

28 what my grandmother said. I know my grandmother 1799

1 explained a lot of things to me.

2 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

3 you a transcript of your sheriff’s interview.

4 A. Probably.

5 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: Yes.

7 MR. MESEREAU: Whoops, I’m sorry.

8 Your Honor, I spilled a little water with my

9 notebook, so —

10 THE BAILIFF: How about you put that over

11 here.

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Arvizo, have you had a

13 chance to look at that page of transcript.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

16 you told the sheriffs about what masturbation was.

17 THE COURT: Just a moment, Counsel.

18 THE WITNESS: It refreshes my —

19 THE COURT: Just a moment. Let’s take care

20 of one thing at a time.

21 You may start again on that.

22 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, thank you, Your Honor.

23 Q. Mr. Arvizo, have you had a chance to look at

24 that page of transcript of your sheriff’s interview.

25 A. Uh-huh.

26 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

27 you told the sheriffs your grandmother said.

28 A. It refreshes — I can recall what my 1800

1 grandmother was telling me. She was — she saw that

2 I was embarrassed about things like masturbation and

3 growing up, and my mother was telling me that it’s

4 okay to do it. And Michael was telling me that you

5 have to do it.

6 Q. Well, Mr. Arvizo, I understand your

7 position. But when the sheriffs asked you what

8 masturbation was, you didn’t say, “Mr. Jackson told

9 me if a man doesn’t do it, he may rape a woman.”

10 You said if — “My grandmother told me that if a man

11 doesn’t do it, he may rape a woman,” correct.

12 A. I believe so. That’s what you showed me.

13 But —

14 Q. And between the time of that interview —

15 MR. SNEDDON: Excuse me.

16 Your Honor, he was about to say something

17 when he got cut off by counsel.

18 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, I apologize. I had no

19 idea.

20 THE WITNESS: But —

21 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me. Go ahead.

22 THE WITNESS: But that still doesn’t mean

23 that Michael did not tell me.

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: But what you’re telling

25 the jury is it was sort of a coincidence that both

26 your grandmother and Michael used almost the

27 identical phrase about raping a woman.

28 A. Both my grandmother and Michael were trying 1801

1 to talk to me about the — pretty much the birds and

2 the bees story.

3 Q. Okay. And they pretty much said the

4 identical thing, is that what you’re telling me.

5 A. Not exactly.

6 Q. Not exactly.

7 A. No.

8 Q. Well, the quotes are almost identical,

9 aren’t they.

10 A. You see, Michael was trying to tell me that

11 I have to masturbate. My mom — my grandmother was

12 actually telling me — giving me the talk. Michael

13 was just talking about masturbation.

14 Q. But your grandmother said to you, “If men

15 don’t do it, men might get to a point where they

16 might go ahead and rape a woman,” correct.

17 A. Michael also told me that.

18 Q. Well — so you’re saying they basically said

19 the same thing.

20 A. My grandmother said it’s okay to do it,

21 because sometimes, some men, they can’t control

22 themselves and might do that.

23 Q. But in that police interview, you never

24 mentioned that Michael Jackson had said that to you,

25 did you.

26 A. I’m sure in one of the other transcript I

27 mentioned about Michael.

28 Q. Not in that interview, correct. 1802 

1 A. But I’m sure in another one I did.

Here is what Gavin said during his grand jury testimony about his grandmother teaching him about masturbation:

Next, Mesereau questioned Gavin about his memory of the facts of the JC Penney case; Gavin denied speaking about the case with his mother, which is a bald faced lie because, according to his father David, Janet gave her children scripts to memorize for their deposition! You can read about it in this document in pages 7-25.

2 Q. Okay. I’d like to ask you just about the

3 allegations in the J.C. Penney case, okay. We’re

4 not going to go into the evidence, just what the

5 allegations were. Okay.

6 A. Uh-huh.

7 Q. Do you remember that case.

8 A. Uh-huh.

9 Q. And you and your mother Janet sued J.C.

10 Penney, correct.

11 A. I think we did. I’m pretty sure we did.

12 Q. Okay. And originally your family sued for

13 battery, false imprisonment and infliction of

14 emotional distress, right.

15 A. I don’t know.

16 Q. Okay. Later on, your mother amended the

17 complaint to add sexual assault. Do you remember

18 that.

19 A. Not really.

20 Q. Do you remember that you were asked

21 questions about that in a sworn deposition.

22 A. I don’t remember being asked about my mom

23 being — whatever.

24 Q. Do you remember being asked questions about

25 your mother’s allegations that J.C. Penney guards

26 fondled her breasts in a parking lot.

27 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

28 object; 403. 1803

1 THE COURT: Sustained.

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember that case

3 at all.

4 A. Um, a little bit. I mean, I was in the

5 middle of my chemotherapy.

6 Q. Okay. Your chemotherapy was going on at the

7 same time.

8 A. At the same time as those depositions.

9 Q. Okay. And how many — how many appointments

10 for chemotherapy had you had at that point, if you

11 know.

12 A. They would have it once a month — once

13 every three weeks, actually. Then I had ten rounds.

14 And I wasn’t like a regular kid that had cancer that

15 would just go in for a few hours and get one bag of

16 chemotherapy. I would go there for a week, in the

17 hospital, and — in a bed, and they would give me

18 chemotherapy.

19 Q. Okay. And approximately when did the

20 chemotherapy end.

21 A. June 2001.

Next, Mesereau questioned Gavin about the discrepancy between his timeline of being abused by Jackson, first within a few days of leaving Neverland, and then within a few weeks of leaving Neverland. Gavin denied that he spoke in detail to Sneddon about the case to refresh his memory over the long weekend, but admitted that they talked for “around 15 minutes” about Gavin’s “history”. Gavin was very coy, so Mesereau specifically asked Gavin if he spoke with Sneddon about his former teachers, and Gavin finally admitted that he had.

During their meeting, Sneddon asked Gavin about Mr. Geralt, and Gavin claimed that he told Sneddon about some of the disciplinary problems that he had when he was in his class a few years prior. When asked by Mesereau if there was anything else he discussed with Sneddon, Gavin initially couldn’t remember, but then Mesereau reminded him of their discussion of Mr. Alpert, the Dean of Gavin’s middle school. On Saturday, March 12th, Sneddon had a meeting with Mr. Alpert, and in it Mr. Alpert stated that Gavin twice denied being abused by Jackson when he was called into his office, shortly after the airing of the documentary. The reason that Sneddon and his prosecution team met with Gavin over the weekend is because they were totally unaware Mr. Alpert’s claims, and they notified Gavin at 5:00PM to let him know of their emergency meeting for later that night.

Gavin claimed that he told Sneddon that he “believed” he had a conversation with Mr. Alpert, but he “really didn’t remember too good”. However, Mesereau challenged him, and Gavin finally admitted that he indeed told Mr. Alpert that Jackson had not abused him.

Here is how the media reported this bombshell information:

Potential Surprise Witness in Jackson Trial

March 14, 2005

Prosecutors and defense attorneys in the molestation trial of Michael Jackson have interviewed a former teacher of the alleged victim, and sources tell ABC News that the teacher claims that the accuser told him that “nothing happened” between himself and “The King of Pop.”

The 15-year-old alleged victim return to the stand for cross-examination as testimony resumed today in Jackson’s trial. The boy, who was 13 at the time he was allegedly molested by Jackson, spent time at the singer’s Neverland ranch in California and appeared with him on the 2003 British documentary “Living With Michael Jackson.” Jackson, 46, has pleaded not guilty to 10 charges that include felony conspiracy with 28 overt acts involving child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion.

In a secret meeting on Saturday, Santa Barbara County, Calif., prosecutor Tom Sneddon and Jackson’s defense attorneys interviewed the teacher from Burroughs Middle School in Los Angeles, where the alleged victim was a student while he and Jackson were friends. According to sources, the teacher said that the young accuser told him in the spring of 2003 — after “Living With Michael Jackson” aired and after the alleged molestation occurred — that “nothing had happened between Michael Jackson and him.”

Thomas Forsyth, an attorney for the teacher, said the interview lasted approximately one hour and that he expects his client to be called as a witness. In testimony today, Jackson attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. confronted the alleged victim in cross-examination about what he told the teacher, who was identified in court as Jeffrey Alpert. The boy admitted telling Alpert, “Michael didn’t do anything to me.”

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=578291&page=1#.T6yjeKyF9iE

 

22 Q. Okay. Do you remember last Thursday I asked

23 you when these alleged acts of masturbation by

24 Michael Jackson occurred. Do you remember that.

25 A. Uh-huh.

26 Q. And within an approximately 20-minute period

27 you first said a couple of days before you left with

28 Jose Salas, right. 1804

1 A. What do you mean.

2 Q. Jesus Salas, excuse me.

3 A. Couple days before I left with Jose Salas.

4 Q. Yes. You said a couple of days before you

5 left Neverland with Jose Salas the masturbation

6 occurred. Do you remember that.

7 A. No, I did not say that.

8 Q. You didn’t say that.

9 A. No, I said that it happened approximately

10 the last two weeks of when we left Neverland for

11 good.

12 Q. Well, first you said a few days, and then

13 you said a week, and then you said a couple of

14 weeks, right.

15 A. Maybe you said that it was a few days.

16 Q. Did you discuss over the weekend these facts

17 with anybody.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did you discuss the case with anybody over

20 the weekend.

21 A. I had a brief conversation with Mr. Sneddon.

22 Q. Okay. And what did you talk about.

23 A. We talked about certain things that you

24 might ask me.

25 Q. And like what.

26 A. Just things about me.

27 Q. Pardon me.

28 A. Things that you might ask about me. 1805

1 Q. Like what.

2 A. Like my history.

3 Q. Your history.

4 A. Uh-huh.

5 Q. And what do you mean, your “history”.

6 A. In school maybe.

7 Q. Pardon me.

8 A. In school maybe.

9 Q. And what did Mr. Sneddon say to you about

10 that.

11 A. He just told me to answer honestly.

12 Q. And what else did he talk to you about.

13 A. That’s pretty much it right there.

14 Q. How long was the discussion.

15 A. 15 minutes.

16 Q. Did he say anything to you about an

17 interview he had with a witness over the weekend.

18 A. With a witness besides me.

19 Q. Yes.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Did he ask you anything about one of your

22 teachers at school.

23 A. Um, yes. He asked me about it.

24 Q. And who was that.

25 A. My teacher.

26 Q. Yes.

27 A. It’s — he wasn’t really my teacher. His

28 name is Richard Geralt. 1806

1 Q. What did Mr. Sneddon say to you about

2 Mr. Geralt.

3 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object. It

4 assumes facts not in evidence that I said anything.

5 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase the question,

6 Your Honor.

7 THE COURT: All right.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did Mr. Sneddon say

9 something to you about Mr. Geralt.

10 MR. SNEDDON: Same objection.

11 THE COURT: Overruled.

12 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question.

13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did Mr. Sneddon say

14 anything to you over the weekend about Mr. Geralt.

15 A. He didn’t have to tell me anything. I told

16 him everything. I told him the facts about Mr.

17 Geralt.

18 Q. Let me ask the question again. Did Mr.

19 Sneddon over the weekend say anything to you about a

20 Mr. Geralt.

21 A. He asked me about Mr. Geralt, so it’s kind

22 of knowing, I guess.

23 Q. What did he ask you about Mr. Geralt.

24 A. He asked me what do I know of Mr. Geralt.

25 Q. And did you tell him.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. What did you tell him.

28 A. I told him about — that I knew Mr. Geralt. 1807 

1 Q. Excuse me.

2 A. I told him that I knew of Mr. Geralt.

3 Q. Did you tell him anything else.

4 A. About Mr. Geralt.

5 Q. Yes.

6 A. I told him about school and how Mr. Geralt

7 was.

8 Q. And what did you tell him.

9 A. About Mr. Geralt.

10 Q. Yeah. What did you tell him about Mr.

11 Geralt and school.

12 A. I told him that — about a time when he —

13 he was a detention teacher. And I had detention,

14 and I was in there.

15 Q. Pardon me.

16 A. I was in his detention.

17 Q. Okay. What else did you tell Mr. Sneddon

18 about Mr. Geralt.

19 A. I told him that one time when I was in

20 detention, I was sitting there, and he told us we

21 had to do work, our homework. I didn’t have a

22 pencil. So I asked him, “Mr. Geralt, may I have a

23 pencil.” And then he put me against the wall,

24 because I asked if I could have a pencil.

25 Q. Did you tell Mr. Sneddon anything else about

26 Mr. Geralt.

27 A. Uh-huh.

28 Q. What else. 1808

1 A. That sometimes in the middle of his class he

2 would go outside and smoke a cigarette.

3 Q. What else.

4 A. Um, that he always tried to handle his

5 classes as if he was a drill sergeant.

6 Q. Okay. What else.

7 A. I told him a story about — that detention.

8 Q. Okay. What did you tell him.

9 A. I told him there was one time that I was in

10 detention, same — and then when I was against the

11 wall, I asked Mr. Geralt, “Why is it that I’m

12 against the wall. I would like to do my work as you

13 told me to do.”

14 Q. What else did you tell Mr. Sneddon.

15 A. And then Mr. Geralt asked me, he said if I

16 was on drugs. He said that if I was on — doing

17 marijuana or doing crack or something, and he told

18 me he was going to give me a drug test.

19 Q. What else did you tell Mr. Sneddon.

20 A. I told him that I was — “Mr. Geralt, I’m

21 not on drugs.” And then Mr. Geralt said that he’s

22 going to call the cops, and this and that, because

23 he was saying that I was on drugs. But he was doing

24 it in a way that he was making fun of me.

25 Q. Now, Mr. Geralt was a teacher, correct.

26 A. He was a teacher at the school.

27 Q. At what school.

28 A. John Burroughs Middle School. 1809

1 Q. Did you tell Mr. Sneddon anything else about

2 Mr. Geralt.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What else did you tell him.

5 A. I — then I told Mr. Geralt that, “Why is it

6 that you’re going to call a police officer here who

7 would rather be doing something more important than

8 something as my minute and dumb as this.”

9 Q. And anything else you told Mr. Sneddon about

10 Mr. Geralt.

11 A. And then after I told Mr. Geralt that, he

12 realized that I was right, and he put his phone

13 away. And then he called the campus supervision.

14 And then he kept on going on that I was doing drugs

15 and this and that. He said he — he was just saying

16 stuff like that.

17 And then he went into — he called campus

18 supervision, and then they took me into the office.

19 And then I told the teachers what happened, and they

20 said they know how Mr. Geralt is.

21 Q. Did you tell Mr. Sneddon anything else when

22 you spoke to him over the weekend.

23 A. No. We talked about a lot — we talked

24 about a few things. I don’t remember too much.

25 Q. You don’t remember too much.

26 A. Well, I do, and — I don’t remember the

27 exact things, I mean, word for word.

28 Q. Why don’t you just tell us generally what 1810

1 you talked about.

2 A. My history, mostly.

3 Q. Pardon me.

4 A. My history.

5 Q. Your history.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Please tell the jury what you told Mr.

8 Sneddon about your history.

9 A. I just told you.

10 Q. Anything else come up in that discussion.

11 A. Yeah.

12 Q. What else.

13 A. Are you trying to specify something.

14 Q. No, I’m just simply asking you to tell the

15 jury what you told Mr. Sneddon when you spoke to him

16 over the weekend about your testimony in this case.

17 A. Please be specific.

18 Q. Well, I’m just asking you. I wasn’t in the

19 conversation. What else do you remember. Please

20 tell the jury anything else that was discussed.

21 A. Talked about my father.

22 Q. Did you talk about a Mr. Alpert.

23 A. Oh, yes. Yes, we did.

24 Q. Did I just jog your memory a little bit

25 about that.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Did Mr. Sneddon tell you he had been in an

28 interview with a Mr. Alpert on Saturday. 1811 

1 A. Yes. Well, I don’t know if — no, he said

2 if I was — if Mr. — the dean, Alpert, interviewed

3 me or talked to me.

4 Q. And did he ask you questions about any

5 discussions you ever had with Dean Alpert at John

6 Burroughs School.

7 A. Yeah, he asked some questions about it.

8 Q. In fact, Mr. Arvizo, he asked you whether

9 you had been interviewed by Dean Alpert and whether

10 you had confessed to him that Mr. Jackson never did

11 anything to you of a sexual nature, right.

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. Why didn’t you say that at the beginning.

14 A. I told Mr. Alpert that he didn’t do anything

15 to me.

16 Q. You told Dean Alpert that twice, correct.

17 A. I don’t know how many times I told him.

18 Q. Well, that was the reason Mr. Sneddon

19 telephoned you, wasn’t it, as far as you knew.

20 A. What do you mean.

21 Q. Mr. Sneddon telephoned you —

22 A. Oh, telephoned.

23 Q. — to ask you whether you had ever confessed

24 to Dean Alpert that Michael Jackson never did

25 anything to you of a sexual nature, right.

26 A. I don’t remember Mr. Sneddon calling me and

27 asking me that question.

28 Q. You don’t recall Mr. Sneddon asking you any 1812

1 questions like that over the weekend.

2 A. Over the weekend, if Michael had done

3 anything to me.

4 Q. No, Mr. Arvizo. Let me just — let me just

5 try and rephrase it, if I have confused you.

6 Mr. Sneddon called you over the weekend,

7 right.

8 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

9 object. That’s a misstatement of his testimony and

10 it assumes facts not in evidence that I called him.

11 THE COURT: Sustained.

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did Mr. Sneddon telephone

13 you over the weekend.

14 A. No, he did not.

15 Q. Did you telephone Mr. Sneddon over the

16 weekend.

17 A. No, I did not.

18 Q. Did you engage in a conversation with Mr.

19 Sneddon over the weekend.

20 A. Yes, I did.

21 Q. Where did that conversation take place.

22 A. In a house.

23 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Sneddon come to see you.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Did you go to see Mr. Sneddon.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Where did you go to see Mr. Sneddon.

28 A. In a house. 1813

1 Q. In his house.

2 A. In a house.

3 Q. Okay. Who was with you, if anybody.

4 A. Detective Robel. Mr. — Ron, Gordon and

5 Mr. Sneddon, and I believe Mr. Mag was there.

6 Q. Okay. Let me just get it straight. Mr.

7 Robel was there from the Santa Barbara Sheriffs,

8 right.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Mr. Sneddon was there, right.

11 A. The attorneys were there.

12 Q. Prosecutors. Prosecutor Zonen was there,

13 right.

14 A. All of the district — all of the attorneys

15 were there.

16 Q. Prosecutor Auchincloss was there, right.

17 A. Auchincloss.

18 Q. Yes. The fellow seated right to my left.

19 A. Oh, Gordon, yeah.

20 Q. Anyone else there besides those four.

21 A. Mag.

22 Q. Who.

23 A. Mag. I don’t know his full name.

24 Q. Okay. Is this another sheriff.

25 A. No, this is an attorney.

26 Q. Another prosecutor.

27 A. He’s another attorney.

28 Q. So you met with four prosecutors and a Santa 1814

1 Barbara Sheriff over the weekend, right.

2 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

3 object again. It assumes facts not in evidence that

4 all of those people were present during the meeting.

5 MR. MESEREAU: I think that’s what he just

6 said.

7 MR. SNEDDON: No, he didn’t.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you meet over the

10 weekend with three prosecutors.

11 A. No.

12 Q. Did you meet with four prosecutors.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did you meet with any prosecutors.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Who were they.

17 A. One, Mr. Sneddon. And Steve Robel — and

18 Detective Steve Robel was present.

19 Q. Okay. Was anyone else present.

20 A. They were there, but they were in another

21 room.

22 Q. Okay. Who was there but in another room.

23 A. Ron, Mr. Zonen, Gordon and Mag.

24 Q. Okay. I’m not hearing that. Is it Meg or

25 Mick.

26 A. Mag.

27 Q. Mag. Okay. And as far as you know, Mag’s a

28 prosecutor, correct. 1815 

1 A. Yes, I believe so.

2 Q. Okay. Now, what day did you have this

3 meeting.

4 A. I believe it was yesterday.

5 Q. And approximately what time did the meeting

6 take place.

7 A. 6:00, maybe 7:00.

8 Q. So that would be last evening, right.

9 A. Uh-huh.

10 Q. Did you learn in advance that the meeting

11 was going to take place.

12 A. A couple hours before.

13 Q. And how did you learn the meeting was going

14 to take place.

15 A. They — they told me.

16 Q. Okay. Who’s “they”.

17 A. Detective Steve Robel told me.

18 Q. Okay. Did he call you on the phone.

19 A. No, he told me.

20 Q. Did he call you on the phone.

21 A. He told me.

22 Q. Okay.

23 A. No, did he not call me on the phone.

24 Q. Did you call him on the phone.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Did he show up at your house.

27 A. No. I don’t live up here.

28 Q. I’m just trying to ask you how you found out 1816

1 about the meeting. That’s all I’m asking.

2 A. I told you, he told me.

3 Q. Okay. Where did he tell you about the

4 meeting.

5 A. He told me at a house.

6 Q. Where you’re staying, right.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Okay. Did he come to the house.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. Approximately what time did Mr. Robel

11 come to the house to tell you there was going to be

12 a meeting that evening with all the prosecutors.

13 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

14 object to that question. There was no meeting with

15 all those prosecutors. Misstatement of his

16 testimony.

17 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it, Your Honor.

18 THE COURT: All right.

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Arvizo, at

20 approximately what time yesterday did you learn you

21 were going to travel to another location to meet

22 with Mr. Sneddon and others.

23 A. Um, other — it was around maybe 5:00 or

24 something like that.

25 Q. Okay. And you obviously attended the

26 meeting, right.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Do you know if the conversation was 1817

1 recorded.

2 A. I don’t believe it was recorded.

3 Q. Do you know if anyone was taking notes.

4 A. Um, no, I don’t think anyone was taking

5 notes.

6 Q. Okay. Did anyone tell you what the purpose

7 of the meeting was.

8 A. No.

9 Q. No one explained why you were having a

10 meeting last night.

11 A. No. They told me that Tom was going to have

12 to talk to me about some things.

13 Q. Okay. And Mr. Sneddon did talk to you about

14 some things, correct.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And he talked to you about an interview that

17 had been conducted on Saturday, right.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did Mr. Sneddon ever tell you he had

20 conducted an interview with a Mr. Alpert on

21 Saturday.

22 A. No, did he not tell me that he conducted an

23 interview.

24 Q. Okay. Did he ever tell you he had spoken

25 with Mr. Alpert.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. And what did he say about that.

28 A. He asked me about Mr. Alpert. 1818

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. What I knew.

3 Q. And did he ask you if you ever had a meeting

4 with Mr. Alpert, correct.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you told him you did, right.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. You told him you met —

9 A. I told him that I’m pretty sure I did — I

10 did. Because I didn’t really remember too good.

11 Q. You didn’t remember too good that you had

12 told Mr. Alpert that Mr. Jackson had never touched

13 you sexually.

14 A. Well, I believe it happened, because he was

15 a dean of the school. And so — I’m pretty sure I

16 had a conversation with him.

17 Q. Okay. And did you tell Mr. Sneddon you were

18 pretty sure you had had a conversation with Dean

19 Alpert at John Burroughs School.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Did you tell Mr. Sneddon approximately when

22 you had that discussion.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did Mr. Sneddon ever ask you when you had

25 that discussion.

26 A. No.

27 Q. Where did the discussion with Dean Alpert

28 take place. 1819

1 A. I don’t remember. It was probably in his

2 office.

3 Q. Okay. And the purpose of the discussion was

4 what, if you know.

5 A. It was probably about Michael.

6 Q. Okay. You say “probably about Michael”.

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 Q. But you’re not sure.

9 A. I’m not sure what the whole conversation was

10 about.

11 Q. Okay. But sometime in that conversation,

12 Dean Alpert looked you in the eye and said, “Are

13 these allegations that Mr. Jackson sexually abused

14 you true,” right.

15 A. Uh-huh.

16 Q. And you said they were not true, right.

17 A. Yeah. I told him that Michael didn’t do

18 anything to me.

19 Q. Okay. Mr. Alpert asked you twice whether or

20 not Michael Jackson had ever done anything of a

21 sexual nature to you, correct.

22 A. I don’t know if he asked me twice.

23 Q. Well, the first time he asked you, you shook

24 your head “No,” right.

25 A. I don’t know.

26 Q. And the second time he asked you, you said

27 to him, “No, he did not touch me in any sexually

28 inappropriate way,” correct. 1820

1 A. I don’t know.

2 Q. You don’t know.

3 A. I’m pretty sure I told him that.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. But, I mean, I don’t know how exactly it

6 happened.

Mesereau then pivoted back to Mr. Geralt, and when he asked Gavin if he had some disciplinary problems, Gavin answered that he had a LOT of disciplinary problems! Mesereau’s goal was to show that Gavin was street tough, and capable of lying and being disruptive, and was not the perfect angel that the media painted him as. Gavin admitted to fighting and talking out lout, among other things. He also claimed to have been an advisor to the ROTC club, and admitted that he had issues with other students in the club. Gavin also rationalized his disrespect towards Mr. Geralt by saying that Mr. Geralt “brought himself down to Gavin’s level” by accusing him of being on drugs during an afterschool detention session.

7 Q. Okay. Now, based on what you’ve already

8 said, you also discussed a teacher named Geralt,

9 right.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. When I started asking you questions about

12 your discussion with Mr. Sneddon, the first person

13 you mentioned was Mr. Geralt, correct.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Mr. Geralt was also a teacher at the school,

16 right.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. And in summary, you had some

19 disciplinary problems with Mr. Geralt, right.

20 A. I had a lot of disciplinary problems.

21 Q. Excuse me.

22 A. I had a lot of disciplinary problems.

23 Q. You had a lot of them.

24 A. Uh-huh.

25 Q. What disciplinary problems did you have.

26 A. I would get into fights sometimes at school.

27 Q. Pardon me.

28 A. I would get into fights sometimes at school. 1821

1 Q. Okay. You got into a lot of them, didn’t

2 you.

3 A. Not a lot. I got into a few.

4 Q. Okay. And were you ever asked to leave the

5 school.

6 A. No, I don’t think so.

7 Q. Were you ever asked to leave class.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. And approximately when did that

10 happen.

11 A. Um, well, a lot of teachers at John

12 Burroughs Middle School, once anyone even talks out

13 of turn, they’ll send you out of class.

14 Q. Well, you got up in class and accused

15 Teacher Geralt of having his balls in his mouth,

16 right.

17 A. His balls in his mouth.

18 Q. Yes.

19 A. No, because I was never in one of his

20 classes.

21 Q. Do you deny doing that.

22 A. I don’t even remember ever doing that.

23 Q. Were you in any programs after school with

24 Teacher Geralt.

25 A. I believe he was an ROTC instructor.

26 Q. Okay. So you were in ROTC at the time,

27 right.

28 A. No. Not exactly. Because I had so much 1822

1 experience in that field of marching, and military,

2 military aspects, he — they liked me being an

3 advisor there.

4 Q. Well, you were accused by Mr. Geralt of

5 being totally disruptive in that program, right.

6 A. In the ROTC program.

7 Q. Yes.

8 A. I don’t remember that. I remember them

9 loving me there because the whole — the whole —

10 their whole cadet corps was disciplined, and — and

11 knew what they were doing. It was getting better at

12 marching.

13 Q. And you accused the cadet core of being

14 stupid, right.

15 A. I might have called a few cadets — that

16 they looked stupid with their uniforms. But — if

17 their uniforms look ugly, that they need to make

18 them look better. But I don’t think I remember

19 calling the whole core stupid.

20 Q. Now, you said you were accused of being on

21 drugs, right.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And you say that was false, right.

24 A. Yes. I don’t — will never go on drugs.

25 Q. Okay. Who accused you of being on drugs.

26 A. Mr. Geralt.

27 Q. Okay. And did he ask you if you were on

28 drugs. 1823

1 A. He was doing it in a way that he was trying

2 to make fun of me.

3 Q. Were you escorted away from the other

4 students at one point.

5 A. During the detention.

6 Q. Yes.

7 A. Actually, all of the students in there were

8 kind of cheering me on because they all knew how

9 Mr. Geralt is, and no one’s ever stood up to him

10 before.

11 Q. But you stood up to the teacher, right.

12 A. I was already standing up, so —

13 Q. Excuse me. I’m sorry, I didn’t hear what

14 you said.

15 A. I guess so.

16 Q. You did stand up to Teacher Geralt, right.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. You confronted him, right.

19 A. Yes, after he had brought himself down to my

20 level by doing those things. By not — see, because

21 I believe teachers are higher than me because I’m

22 just a student. When a teacher does something like

23 that and makes fun of me and tries to say I’m on

24 drugs, he’s no longer the level of a teacher, he’s

25 come down to my level.

26 Q. And you were angry about that, right.

27 A. Um, I felt as if he was — didn’t deserve

28 respect as a teacher. 1824

1 Q. Didn’t deserve respect as a teacher.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Okay. So you did not respect him because

4 you didn’t think he deserved it, right.

5 A. I didn’t respect him as a person.

6 Q. And you told him that, didn’t you.

7 A. I didn’t tell him those exact words.

8 Q. Pardon me.

9 A. I didn’t tell him, “I don’t respect you.”

10 I didn’t tell him in those exact words.

11 Q. Okay. Did Teacher Geralt do anything to

12 discipline you, that you can recall.

13 A. He gave me detention once, I think.

14 Q. Okay. And when you say “detention,” what do

15 you mean.

16 A. Detention with him again.

17 Q. Excuse me.

18 A. A detention with him again.

19 Q. Okay. And what was detention. What did he

20 take you do.

21 A. He had us go in this — the auditorium,

22 because there was a lot of kids. Well, first we’d

23 be in his classroom, and usually there would be a

24 lot of kids, so we would usually move over to the

25 auditorium because it was bigger, and then we would

26 do our homework in there. It was after school.

27 Q. Okay. Since we’re on the subject of school,

28 I’d like to just ask you some questions about your 1825

1 experiences at school. Okay.

2 A. Uh-huh.

Mesereau continued to question Gavin about his different disciplinary problems at school, and one important and prophetic criticism of Gavin came from a teacher who said that Gavin “had great acting skills”.  Here’s the excerpt where Mesereau asks Gavin about this criticism, and Gavin denies knowing about it.

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: She also said you appeared

24 to have good acting skills, right.

25 A. I don’t know if she said that.

26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

27 you her memo to Mr. Davy.

28 A. Probably not, because I never saw the memo 1839

1 before.

2 Q. Well, do you recall her ever saying anything

3 to the effect, “You have good acting skills”.

4 A. No.

After going through Gavin’s disciplinary history at school, Mesereau shifts back to the meeting with Mr. Alpert about whether Gavin had been abused by Jackson, and Gavin once again confirmed that he denied any abuse to Mr. Alpert.

24 Q. Let me get back to your conversation with

25 Mr. Sneddon last night. Did he ask you who Jeffrey

26 Alpert is.

27 A. He asked me who Dean Alpert was.

28 Q. And did you tell him who Jeffrey Alpert is. 1843

1 A. I don’t know if Dean Alpert was the same

2 Jeffrey Alpert, because, I mean, I only call him

3 Dean Alpert. So I don’t know if we’re talking about

4 the same guy, because there’s — I think there’s

5 another guy named Alpert there.

6 Q. Okay. Did you tell Mr. Sneddon you knew who

7 Dean Alpert was.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Did you tell him when you first met Dean

10 Alpert.

11 A. Yes. Well —

12 Q. What did you tell Mr. Sneddon.

13 A. Well, I didn’t really tell him when I first

14 met him, but I told him that I knew that I met him.

15 Q. Okay. Did the conversation begin with a

16 discussion about Mr. Alpert or Mr. Geralt.

17 A. I believe it was about Mr. Geralt first.

18 Q. Okay. And you told Mr. Sneddon your history

19 with Mr. Geralt, right.

20 A. I told him about that one story that I told

21 you.

22 Q. Pardon me.

23 A. I told him about that one story that I told

24 you.

25 Q. Okay. And after you finished telling Mr.

26 Sneddon about your experiences with Mr. Geralt, did

27 you then start talking about Mr. Alpert.

28 A. No, he asked me if I remember who Mr. Alpert 1844

1 was.

2 Q. Okay. Now, you were sent to Mr. Alpert’s

3 office many times for disciplinary problems,

4 correct.

5 A. Uh-huh.

6 Q. Generally fights, correct.

7 A. Um, not really. Because I didn’t want to

8 fight in the seventh grade — well, every time I

9 would get into a fight, I would be sent there. I

10 got into one fight in seventh grade with an eighth

11 grader, and I’m not — I remember one fight, but I

12 know I got into more than one in the eighth grade.

13 Q. Okay. But you were — you had a lot of

14 meetings with him about —

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. — allegations, at least, that you were a

17 discipline problem, right.

18 A. No, I had meetings with him because I was a

19 disciplinary problem.

20 Q. Okay. Okay. And do you know approximately

21 when Dean Alpert called you in his office to ask you

22 if any of these allegations involving Michael

23 Jackson were true.

24 A. I believe it was after I came back from

25 Neverland.

26 Q. Pardon me.

27 A. I’m pretty sure it was after I came back

28 from Neverland, the eighth grade. 1845

1 Q. Okay. And he looked at you, and he said,

2 “Look at me, look at me, Gavin. I can’t help you

3 unless you tell me the truth. Did any of this

4 happen. Did anything bad happen.” Remember that.

5 A. Um, yeah, I believe so.

6 Q. And your response was, “No, nothing

7 happened,” right.

8 A. Yeah.

In this excerpt, Mesereau confronts Gavin with cards that he and his family sent to Jackson, and although he initially denied it, he was forced to admit that he called Jackson “daddy” once Mesereau presented him with the cards. Gavin also confirmed that he wanted to travel to New York to watch Jackson record his music, but was unable to reach him throughout 2001.

9 Q. Okay. You used to send a lot of letters and

10 cards to Michael Jackson, correct.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. When did you begin sending letters and cards

13 to Michael Jackson.

14 A. When I met him, I guess.

15 Q. Excuse me.

16 A. When I met him.

17 Q. Would that be the first trip to Neverland.

18 A. Yeah, I don’t think I gave him a card

19 when — the first day I met him, but, I mean, it was

20 probably around the times that I knew him.

21 Q. You also were sending cards to his assistant

22 named Evvy, right.

23 A. Yes. She was a really nice lady.

24 Q. Please tell the jury who Evvy is.

25 A. I think she’s like the assistant to Michael

26 or something like that.

27 Q. You sent a card to her saying that you loved

28 her, right. 1846

1 A. Yeah — I believe I did.

2 Q. Yeah, your whole family did, right.

3 A. I think we did.

4 Q. Said, “Evvy, sweetheart, we love you,”

5 right.

6 A. I don’t know if we said that, but I mean —

7 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

8 show you a copy of a card.

9 A. Sure. Yes.

10 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

11 THE COURT: Yes.

12 MR. SNEDDON: Could I see the card for just

13 a second.

14 THE WITNESS: It’s —

15 THE COURT: Just a moment. He’s just showing

16 you the card, remember.

17 THE WITNESS: Okay.

18 THE COURT: Now he’s going to ask you if it

19 refreshes your recollection.

20 THE WITNESS: All right.

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

22 look at that card.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about

25 sending a card to Evvy.

26 A. A little bit. Because I knew we sent cards

27 to Evvy.

28 Q. Okay. You called her a sweetheart and said 1847

1 you loved her, right.

2 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

3 object to that question, because counsel’s not laid

4 the foundation that he recognizes the handwriting as

5 being his.

6 THE WITNESS: That’s my mom’s —

7 THE COURT: Just a moment.

8 MR. SNEDDON: Lack of foundation.

9 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll go into it, Your Honor.

10 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.

11 THE COURT: You may answer. I’ll have the

12 question — do you want the question read back.

13 THE WITNESS: Yes.

14 (Record read.)

15 THE WITNESS: Yes.

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And you used to write

17 cards to Michael and call him “daddy,” correct.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And you would refer to yourself as his son,

20 right.

21 A. Well, I called him “daddy,” and then he

22 would call me his son.

23 Q. Well, you yourself wrote to him and said,

24 “To Daddy Michael, from your son Gavin,” correct.

25 A. That’s probably after he called me “son.”

26 Q. Let me just ask you the question again,

27 because you got to answer the question.

28 A. Okay. 1848

1 Q. Isn’t it true that you sent a letter to

2 Michael Jackson, you addressed it to “Daddy Michael,

3 from your son Gavin”.

4 A. I mean, I’m — I don’t know every letter I

5 ever sent to him, but, I mean, I probably did.

6 Q. Do you remember doing that.

7 A. Not really.

8 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

9 show you that, the letter.

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

12 THE COURT: Yes.

13 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

15 look at that document.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about

18 sending Michael Jackson a letter that said, “To

19 Daddy Michael, from your son Gavin”.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Do you remember sending another card to

22 Michael Jackson that said, “I miss you, Daddy

23 Michael”.

24 A. I don’t know — I probably did send him

25 that.

26 Q. Do you know for sure if that happened.

27 A. Not for sure, but I’m pretty sure I did.

28 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just 1849

1 show you the card.

2 A. Yes.

3 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: Yes.

5 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes.

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Have you had a

7 chance to look at that document.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about your

10 sending a card to Michael Jackson that said, “I miss

11 you, Daddy Michael”.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. How often would you send cards or

14 letters to Michael Jackson.

15 A. I’d probably send them maybe once a month or

16 something like that.

17 Q. And you used to ask him for his phone

18 numbers, right.

19 A. He would give me some of his phone numbers.

20 Q. Pardon me.

21 A. He would give me some of his phone numbers.

22 He gave them.

23 Q. But correct me if I’m wrong, did you tell

24 the jury last week that he gave you phone numbers

25 that ended up not working.

26 A. No, I told you he gave me phone numbers, and

27 after a while they didn’t work.

28 Q. And you would then routinely ask him for 1850

1 numbers that did work, right.

2 A. Not really routinely. But, I mean, I asked

3 him.

4 Q. Okay. Do you know approximately when you

5 began sending letters or cards to Michael Jackson.

6 A. Probably when the numbers didn’t work no

7 more, and all we had was Evvy to talk to.

8 Q. Do you remember sending a letter to Michael

9 Jackson that said, “I love you, Daddy Michael. And

10 tell my little brother and little sister that I love

11 and care about them. Thank you for everything,

12 Daddy Michael. Thank you for being my Daddy

13 Michael. Thank you for helping me be happy and beat

14 cancer.” Do you remember sending him a letter like

15 that.

16 A. Not really, but I mean I probably did.

17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

18 show you the card, or a copy of the card.

19 A. Yes.

20 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

21 THE COURT: Yes.

22 THE WITNESS: Oh, I remember.

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

24 look at that copy of a card.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And does it refresh your recollection that

27 you wrote to Michael Jackson yourself and thanked

28 him for helping you beat cancer. 1851

1 A. I remember that card.

2 Q. Pardon me.

3 A. I remember that card.

4 Q. You did write to Michael Jackson yourself

5 and thanked him for helping you beat cancer,

6 correct.

7 A. I wrote that in the letter, yes.

8 Q. Okay. You used to also write letters to

9 Michael Jackson’s children, right, Prince and Paris.

10 A. I might have.

11 Q. You called Michael, Prince and Paris your

12 very best friend — friends in the world, right.

13 A. I don’t know.

14 Q. Do you recall doing that.

15 A. No.

16 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

17 you a copy of that card.

18 A. Yes.

19 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

20 THE COURT: Yes.

21 THE WITNESS: I don’t remember writing that.

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You don’t remember that.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you remember writing any letters that

25 were addressed to Michael, Prince and Paris.

26 A. My writing doesn’t — no.

27 Q. You don’t recall ever doing that.

28 A. No. My writing doesn’t look that good. 1852

1 Q. Pardon me.

2 A. My writing doesn’t look that good.

3 Q. Okay. Now, you used to write Evvy, Michael

4 Jackson’s personal assistant, and thank her for what

5 she had done for you, correct.

6 A. Yeah, I would thank her for, like, setting

7 up stuff and helping us.

8 Q. What nice things had Evvy done for you.

9 A. She would like — when I would — she helped

10 me set up the AOL account with the Internet.

11 Q. I’m sorry, I can’t —

12 A. She helped me set up the Internet on the

13 computer that Michael —

14 Q. What else did she do for you.

15 A. She was just a really nice lady. I mean, we

16 would call her and she would be really nice to me.

17 Q. Do you recall ever writing to Michael

18 Jackson about his injuring his foot.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And tell the jury what you told Michael

21 Jackson about that.

22 A. I just told him, like, I hope he feels

23 better, or stuff like that.

24 Q. You told him that your family was praying

25 for him, true.

26 A. I think so.

27 Q. You said you felt sorry about his foot being

28 broken, right. 1853

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And you said you couldn’t wait till you

3 could play at Neverland again, right.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. You called him “daddy” in that letter,

6 right.

7 A. Yes, I believe so.

8 Q. Is that true.

9 A. I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure I did.

10 Q. Okay. You reminded him that he keeps all of

11 his promises, right.

12 A. Yeah, he would tell me he keeps every

13 promise he says.

14 Q. Okay. And you reminded him of that in your

15 letter at one time, right.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And you said, “I wish I could be with you in

18 New York and watch you record your music stuff.”

19 Remember that.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

22 show you a copy of this letter.

23 A. Yes.

24 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: Yes.

26 THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah, I remember that.

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

28 look at that document. 1854

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And you wanted to go to New York and be with

3 Mr. Jackson in a recording studio, right.

4 A. I guess. I mean, yeah.

5 Q. And that didn’t happen, right.

6 A. No.

7 Q. You never traveled with Mr. Jackson to New

8 York.

9 A. I never traveled with Mr. Jackson.

10 Q. You called him the nicest, most loving

11 person in the world, right.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You said, “I love you, Daddy Michael,”

14 right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. You said, “Thank you, Daddy Michael, for

17 being my best, best friend forever and ever,” right.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. You sent another card to him and it

20 said, “Here’s a little something to make you feel

21 better while your leg is healing. Ha ha, ha ha.

22 Love you. Love, your son Gavin.” Do you remember

23 that.

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. Do you remember doing that.

26 A. Yes. Yes.

27 Q. Okay. Do you remember sending him a card

28 asking him to, “Please come back, I miss you, I love 1855

1 you”. Do you remember that.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

4 you a copy of that card.

5 A. Yes.

6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

9 look at that document.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Does it refresh your recollection.

12 A. Not really.

13 Q. Okay. You don’t recall saying words to

14 Mr. Jackson, “Come back, I miss you, I love you”.

15 A. I mean, because I probably did, but I don’t

16 really remember sending a letter.

17 Q. Okay. Now, to your knowledge, other members

18 of your family were sending cards to Mr. Jackson as

19 well, right.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. You sent a lot of cards that were

22 signed, “Your son, Gavin,” true.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. All right. You used to refer to Michael as

25 your best friend, right.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. You used to refer to him as “cool,” right.

28 Right. 1856

1 A. I don’t know if I said “cool,” but I

2 probably did.

3 Q. You said you liked being in the music studio

4 at Neverland.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Were you ever in his music studio at

7 Neverland.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Were you with Michael Jackson.

10 A. Yes.

To be continued: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/march-14th-2005-trial-analysis-gavin-arvizo-cross-examination-part-2-of-4/ 

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6 Comments leave one →
  1. lynande51 permalink*
    June 18, 2012 8:47 pm

    All those cards! All those letters! ” I love you Daddy Michael, I love Prince,and Paris like a brother and sister” Good grief the only one being “groomed” in this case was Michael!.He was being groomed for the Arvizo version of the badger game. An age old con game look it up. It has a few variations but that is sure what this is. Here is an excerpt from Diane Dimond on Larry King the night of Michael’s arrest.

    KING: Before I read Michael’s statement, I want comments from our panel. Diane, what do you think of this?

    DIANE DIMOND, COURT TV: Well, I’ve heard that Michael Jackson did a two-pronged attack back in February, when he heard that this — or when he felt that this mother might be taking some steps detrimental to him. No. 1, he hired Mark Geragos. And number two — actually, he took three steps. No. 2, he brought in a videocamera into Neverland when the family was there, the young boy’s mother and their two siblings, and he started the tape rolling and then had them talk about what a great guy he was. So now they have on video the complainants talking about how Michael Jackson was so generous, how they called him Daddy, how Neverland was wonderful and so was he.

    And No. 3, I hear that he realized allegations were on the way. He remembered love letters — that’s how they’re described, love letters — that he had written to this 12-year-old boy that were in the boy’s home. At the time, the boy, the mother, the family was up at Neverland. Someone somehow was dispatched, I’m told, by the Michael Jackson camp down to their Los Angeles-area apartment, and suddenly, those letters disappeared.

    KING: Could that have been this…

    DIMOND: That’s what Mr. Sneddon and the sheriff were looking for when they went into Neverland, that stack of love letters.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/24/lkl.00.html
    Yes that stack of love letters that Janet Arvizo had told them that Michael had written. Funny thing is that was one of the things that she originally wanted back from Michael when William Dickerman was writing letters of demand to Mark Geragos. When they searched Brad Millers office it was to find the love letters that Janet said were taken from a hiding place in the bottom of a pottedplant container. The problem is that Janet did not realize that the entire move had been video taped, not by Brad Miller but by the movers he hired and it was turned over to him. Their belongings were then placed in a storage building and remained there until the SBSD paid for it to be taken out and returned to the Arvizos.Here is the onventory return from Brad Millers Office.
    http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/120403irsw211.pdf
    And let’s add the inventory return from Neverland so you can see just how many of these letters that these people sent to their victims.
    http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/120403irswnlr.pdf

    And the most fun of course is Diane Dimond who would like every one to remember that Michael once wrote a note or letter the Jordan that was described as a love letter. Only if your name is Victor Gutierrez and youfanatasize about it like he does because you see “love letters” were part of the Chandler story too. Here is an excerpt from Ray Chandler showing us the “love letter” Michael wrote to Jordan (from The Veritas Project)

    Chandler’s assumption that Jackson is gay is also supposed to be supported by a “love letter” Jackson allegedly wrote to Jordan:

    “[Boy’s name], you’re not only my cousin but also my best friend. I can’t stop loving your mother and sister. I have found true love in all of you. If more people were like us the world would change instantly. I have such golden dreams for you. I want you to be a giant in the industry. You are my new inspiration. I love you. Doo doo head. Applehead. Disneyland soon. Love, doo doo. Call soon, bye, doo

    Considering the time of year that this was supposedly written doesn’t it sound more like grammar school graduation card? It also looks like he loves June more than Jordan in this letter.

    • Rodrigo permalink
      June 18, 2012 10:16 pm

      Didn’t the Arvizo’s send similar letters to other celebs though? That was just a cutesy little ploy to keep themselves attached to who they were leeching from.
      The media exaggerated those claims of ‘love letters’ by using Michael’s exchange of letters to other kids in the past as the backbone, Which if they knew would help them promote him as a pe-le, they would have highlighted…but those letters were purely innocent, so they had nothing to go on. If there was anything, they would have been all over it, so…

      Michael sounded as though he was thanking Jordan for blessing him with a new family, which we all know pissed off Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler. Has anyone ever noticed that Michael tried playing the family man with these people? It’s like he wanted to fill in the role of being a husband and a father…which does make sense imo.

      • lynande51 permalink*
        June 18, 2012 11:19 pm

        Yes and we are going to include the court pleading that have a couple of them to “Wheezy” Palanaker when her testimony is summarized. They sure are good.

  2. Rodrigo permalink
    June 18, 2012 12:10 am

    Kids are way more advanced and knowledgeable than most would assume, I know I was, lol.

    And that’s actually one of the things that upset Michael. Where he said innocence meant nothing to kids anymore, which I agree with. It’s unfortunate that children are exposed to such adult things, where they smoke and swear, etc. That’s what Michael tried to shied kids from and advised others to do the same.

  3. June 17, 2012 10:58 pm

    LOl, this is one of my “favourite” parts-when Gavin “confuses” Michael with his grandma. I knew very little about the allegations before I discovered this site a few months ago, but that was instrumental in making me believe Michael over the Arvizos.

    Here’s the re-enactment of this day in court, for those of you who are interested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c1kqYwx8Zc

    One interesting thing to note is that these re-enactments were pretty unbiased, up until the day Jason Francia showed up. They kept saying “The court room where Michael jackson is facing charges of child abuse” but after Francia showed up they used the word “molestation” and were not as fair to Jackson. In the one above, they seem to be taking Michael’s side.

    Also, didn’t you guys find it interesting that Gavin knew what the word masturbation meant, but he claimed in the police interview that he didn’t know what ejaculation was? I mean COME ON! (No pun intended). They had to describe it to him as “white stuff coming out.” (It was in Larry Nimmer’s documentary, that clip, which I think is now off Youtube). You learn this in health class when you’re like 11. Go to any 8th grade class and do a survey. 90% of kids will know what ejaculation is, but most won’t know what masturbation is. And there isn’t a single kid who would know masturbation but not the other. And also, Mesereau in the cross examination, was asking Gavin about his password on the computer or something, and it was “sexy” something, so he was trying to show the jury Gavin wasn’t some innocent little kid. That’s also in the video above.

    Speaking of which, I remember seeing on some random site a clip to a newspaper article that showed Jordy was involved in writing the screenplay for that movie (men in tights or whatever) that Evan did; so involved that they (the director or producer) wanted to give him actual CREDIT for it. I’ve never watched the movie, but from what I hear, there’s a lot of inappropriate things in it.Did you guys ever see that article? It’s interesting that both of Michael’s accusers were very knowledgeable about sexuality.

    Keep up the great work! 😀

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