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April 4th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Jesus Salas (Direct & Cross Examination), Jason Francia (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 1 of 4

November 14, 2012

Auchincloss’s direct examination continued today and he began by asking Jesus Salas about the protocols at Neverland concerning the treatment of guests, primarily children. Auchincloss tried to trap Salas into saying that Jackson demanded special treatment for the children who visited the Neverland, but Salas stated that everyone was treated like royalty!





27 Q. Good morning, Mr. Salas.


28 A. Good morning. 4649


1 Q. I’m not sure exactly where I left off, but


2 I’d like to begin by going back to generalities


3 about Neverland.


4 As far as your relationship with Mr. Jackson


5 concerning your employment as house manager, can you


6 characterize the level of control that Mr. Jackson


7 maintained over Neverland and over the main house?


8 A. I would say pretty high.


9 Q. And as far as in terms of how demanding he


10 could be, could you characterize that as well?


11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


12 foundation.


13 THE COURT: Sustained.


14 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I can be more specific.


15 Q. How demanding he was about the level of his


16 service that was provided to him by his employers.


17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


18 foundation.


19 THE COURT: Sustained.


20 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Who was it that


21 determined what — which guests — well, let me back


22 up.


23 How was it determined, if you know, whether


24 a guest would be coming to Neverland or not?


25 A. I did not know that.


26 Q. Okay. And would guests of Neverland be


27 allowed to bring their own guests to Neverland; do


28 you know? 4650

1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Calls for


2 speculation; foundation.


3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: If you know.


4 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.


5 You may answer.


6 THE WITNESS: I do not know that either.


7 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. The guests of


8 Neverland would be whose guests?


9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation; calls


10 for speculation.


11 THE COURT: Foundation is sustained.


12 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Do you know if people


13 were allowed on Neverland without Mr. Jackson’s


14 permission?


15 A. I believe that if they weren’t allowed by


16 Mr. Jackson, I don’t think they would come in.


17 Q. Okay. And do you know who would determine


18 how long a guest was allowed to stay at Neverland?


19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation; calls


20 for speculation.


21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It’s a foundational


22 question.


23 THE COURT: You may answer that “yes” or


24 “no.”


25 THE WITNESS: I believe they didn’t have no


26 time —


27 THE COURT: Just a moment. He’s just asking


28 if you have the knowledge. He’s not asking you what 4651


1 the knowledge is. Do you know who determined how


2 long a guest could stay? Yes or no.


3 THE WITNESS: No, I didn’t.


4 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: How were children


5 treated at Neverland?


6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


7 foundation.


8 THE COURT: Sustained.


9 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Can you — when you


10 were at Neverland, Mr. Salas, when you were house


11 manager, did you observe at any time Mr. Jackson


12 with child guests?


13 A. Yes, I did.


14 Q. And did Mr. Jackson ever inform you of the


15 level of the service he expected of his child


16 guests?


17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;


18 foundation.


19 THE COURT: Overruled.


20 You may answer.


21 THE WITNESS: He was — he always expected


22 the best, to be treated the best.


23 Q. BY MR AUCHINCLOSS: If a child wanted


24 something at Neverland, had a request, or let’s say


25 food, a movie, any special request of that nature,


26 would that request be fulfilled by the employees?


27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


28 foundation; calls for speculation. 4652


1 THE COURT: Overruled.




3 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Do you know if that’s


4 the way Mr. Jackson wanted it?


5 A. That is correct.


6 Q. How do you know that?


7 A. Because of what he told me, that — whatever


8 the guests needed, we needed to provide that for


9 them.


10 Q. And did you notice whether or not this level


11 of service or treatment as far as the children went,


12 did you notice if it affected those kids’ behavior


13 in any way?

14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


15 foundation.


16 THE COURT: Sustained.


17 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did you ever have a


18 chance to observe the children — well, let me ask


19 you this: Were the children basically given


20 whatever they wanted?


21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


22 THE COURT: Sustained.


23 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Mr. Salas, please


24 characterize for me, if you would, in general, the


25 level of service and — well, I think you’ve said


26 before that the children were allowed the best


27 treatment, the best service, true?


28 A. That is correct. 4653


1 Q. Give me an example. What are you talking


2 about when you say that?


3 A. Well, the best service I’m talking about, if


4 they wanted to see a movie and have their meal at


5 the theater or any of that kind of stuff, I mean,


6 they — I would make sure that they would get it


7 that way. Or if they wanted to eat like anywhere


8 else, if they wanted to eat. If guests called me,


9 or the kids called me, they wanted to eat in the


10 train depot, I would make sure that that’s where


11 they get their meal, or whatever they asked for.


12 Q. If they wanted candy, were they given candy?


13 A. Absolutely.


14 Q. If they wanted to play at the amusement


15 park, could they do it?


16 A. Absolutely.


17 Q. Were there any rules about that?


18 A. No.


19 Q. As far as when and how they would play?


20 A. Well, there was some rules, you know, for


21 their safety, you know.


22 Q. Yes.


23 A. Yes. But other than that, there wasn’t any


24 other rules.


25 Q. Did you have golf carts at Neverland?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Were the children allowed to use them?


28 A. There was some kids that they were allowed 4654


1 to use them.


2 Q. Who decided who got to use the golf carts?


3 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.


4 THE COURT: Sustained.


5 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Are you aware who


6 allowed the children these privileges of using the


7 golf carts?


8 A. I had some control on that. We had security


9 or we’d have security there. Many times kids, they


10 were told they weren’t allowed to drive certain


11 cars, but they were some kids that they were allowed


12 to drive them.


13 Q. If Mr. Jackson said, “Let this kid drive a


14 golf cart,” would that kid be allowed to drive the


15 golf cart?


16 A. I would say yes.


17 Q. Tell me about the theater at Neverland.


18 Could you describe it for me?


19 A. Well, it’s a full-sized theater with a candy


20 bar, ice cream. It’s got pretty much anything that


21 a kid can enjoy.

Next, Auchincloss questioned Salas about the movie theater, and he described how there were beds built into the walls of the theater for sick kids who were too ill to sit up and watch the movies (which is something that impressed Oprah during her tour of Neverland in 1993!):

17 Q. Tell me about the theater at Neverland.


18 Could you describe it for me?


19 A. Well, it’s a full-sized theater with a candy


20 bar, ice cream. It’s got pretty much anything that


21 a kid can enjoy.


22 Q. Are there any unusual features as far as


23 where you can watch the movie?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.


25 THE WITNESS: Yes, there’s an upstairs —


26 THE COURT: Just a moment.


27 MR. MESEREAU: Vague and foundation.


28 THE COURT: Overruled. 4655


1 You may answer.


2 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Go ahead.


3 A. There’s an upstairs room where people can


4 sit up there and watch the movie if they want to.


5 Q. Are there any beds in the theater?


6 A. Yes, there’s two rooms downstairs with two


7 facilities for kids that they can sit in there or


8 lay in bed and watch a movie, if that’s what they


9 want.


10 Q. Is the theater ever closed? I mean, does it


11 have hours, I guess is my question? Is it —


12 A. Pretty much when Mr. Jackson is on the


13 property, we always kept the place open.


14 Q. When he had some what?


15 A. When Mr. Jackson is on property.


16 Q. I see.


17 A. We pretty much keep the place open for —


18 you know, for guests or himself.


19 Q. All night long?


20 A. All night long.

At the 3:35 mark in this clip, Oprah describes how impressed she was that Jackson installed beds in the walls of the movie theater:


In this excerpt, Salas is grilled about the frustrations that Jackson had with Frank Cascio bringing guests to Neverland without his permission; he testified that Jackson vented his frustrations with Cascio to him after the Arvizo family left Neverland for the final time on March 12th, 2003:

12 Q. All right. Mr. Salas, I show you People’s


13 Exhibit No. 20. We’ve shown this to you before.


14 You’ve identified it as Frank Tyson.


15 You mentioned that at some point during your


16 employment, Mr. Tyson — you mentioned something


17 about a problem with Mr. Jackson that Mr. Tyson had.


18 Do you recall that testimony?


19 A. Yes, I did.


20 Q. How do you know about that problem?


21 A. I believe about Mr. Jackson’s frustrations.


22 Q. Okay. You were present when Mr. Jackson


23 expressed some from frustrations?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


25 THE COURT: Overruled.


26 You may answer.


27 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.


28 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: And what was — can you 4658


1 tell us what he was frustrated about?


2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.


3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’ll withdraw and reask.


4 THE COURT: Okay.


5 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did Mr. Jackson tell


6 you what he was frustrated about? That’s yes or no.


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. What — did Mr. Jackson tell you what was


9 frustrating him?


10 A. He did not know about Frank bringing people


11 at Neverland Valley without his permission.


12 Q. Okay. Bringing guests without Mr. Jackson’s


13 permission?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. Who was it that informed Mr. Jackson of this


16 issue?


17 A. I don’t know.


18 Q. Okay. And you have previously identified


19 People’s Exhibit 35 as the Arvizo family; is that


20 right?


21 A. That is correct.

22 Q. You recall the time when the Arvizo family


23 visited Mr. Jackson in the year 2003?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Was this frustration that Mr. Jackson


26 expressed with Mr. Tyson before, or after, or during


27 the time that the Arvizo family was present at


28 Neverland in 2003? 4659


1 A. That was after the family was there.


2 Q. After the family left?


3 A. Yes.

Next, here is a long excerpt where Salas recounts his recollections of his observations of Ronald Konitzer and Dieter Weisner. Auchincloss wanted to establish to the jury the type of relationship that Jackson had with them in order to show the plausibility that they would conspire to hold the Arvizos against their will at Neverland:

4 Q. All right. I show you People’s Exhibit No.


5 17. You’ve previously identified this individual as


6 Dieter.


7 Tell me, when was the first time you met


8 Mr. — Dieter, do you know his last name? Maybe


9 I’ll ask you that question first.


10 A. No, I don’t remember his last name.


11 Q. We’ll just refer to him as “Dieter.” When


12 was the first time you met Dieter?


13 A. I believe it was early or mid 2002.


14 Q. Okay. And where did you meet him?


15 A. I met him at Neverland Valley.


16 Q. Can you tell me about the circumstances?


17 How is it that you met him, under what


18 circumstances?


19 A. Well, he came to the ranch as a guest, and


20 stayed there for a while. That’s how I met him.


21 Q. Okay. So, we’re in mid 2002. Dieter comes


22 and visits. Do you know how long he visited for?


23 A. Not exactly sure, but I believe he stayed


24 there for a couple of weeks the first time he came.


25 Q. Was Mr. Jackson there at the time?


26 A. Yes, he was.


27 Q. Was Mr. Jackson there before Dieter came on


28 the property, if you recall? 4660


1 A. I don’t remember.


2 Q. When Dieter left the property, do you know


3 if Mr. Jackson left with him?


4 A. I’m not exactly sure if they did. But there


5 was a few times that they left together.


6 Q. Okay. So Dieter visited the property again


7 after that first time?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. How many times, if you can estimate?


10 A. Not exactly sure, but he came, I don’t know,


11 maybe about three or four times after that.


12 Something like that.


13 Q. All right. And you said that — some of


14 those times. Do you know how many times Mr. Jackson


15 left with him, when Dieter left?


16 A. I don’t.


17 Q. Do you know how many times Dieter arrived on


18 the property with Mr. Jackson, if at all?


19 A. I would say about a couple times.


20 Q. Show you People’s Exhibit 18, which you’ve


21 identified as Ronald. Do you know Ronald’s last


22 name?


23 A. I believe his last name is Konister.


24 Q. Konister?


25 A. Something like that.


26 Q. Okay. We’ll refer to him as “Ronald.”


27 How — when was the first time you met Ronald?


28 A. It was at the same time I met Dieter. 4661


1 Q. Did Dieter come on the property with Ronald


2 in that period, the first visit he came?


3 A. They both came together.


4 Q. Did they leave together?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. And when — did Ronald ever come back to the


7 property after that?


8 A. Yes, he did.


9 Q. How many times?


10 A. He came back about — I believe about


11 another couple times.


12 Q. And during the times that he visited the


13 ranch, did Ronald ever come to the ranch with Mr.


14 Jackson?


15 A. I believe he came once, if I can recall.


16 Q. Did he ever leave the ranch with Mr.


17 Jackson?


18 A. I — I’m going to say no on that one.


19 Q. Okay. And while Mr. — while Ronald was on


20 the property, was — I think you said the first time


21 Ronald came with Dieter, and they were there the


22 entire time together; is that right?


23 A. That is correct.


24 Q. During those subsequent visits of Ronald,


25 was Dieter on the property?


26 A. Yes, he was.


27 Q. Did you ever see these two men together?


28 A. Yes. 4662


1 Q. How often?


2 A. Daily basis.


3 Q. Daily basis?


4 A. Uh-huh.


5 Q. Did you ever see these two men with Mr.


6 Jackson?


7 A. Yes, I did.


8 Q. How often?


9 A. Oh, I’m going to say at least they try to


10 have a meeting once a day.


11 Q. Do you know what Ronald’s — well, let me


12 back up.


13 Do you know what Dieter’s relationship was


14 to Mr. Jackson?


15 A. No, I don’t.


16 Q. Do you know if it was — dealt with


17 friendship, business, or a combination?


18 A. I would say it was more business.


19 Q. Why do you say that?


20 A. Because of what they were discussing about


21 business in Europe.


22 Q. You heard them talking about business?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. What about Ronald, how would you


25 characterize Ronald’s relationship on the same


26 continuum?


27 A. Same category.


28 Q. Mostly business? 4663


1 A. Mostly business.


2 Q. During the time that the Arvizo family was


3 on the property, was at Neverland in 2003, did you


4 ever observe Ronald on the property at the same


5 time?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. How about Dieter?


8 A. The same.

Next, Salas is questioned about the Arvizo family, and as you would expect by now, he tried to make a mountain out of a molehill by asking Salas to discuss the sleeping arrangements of Gavin and Star. Pay close attention to Zonen’s question about the comings and goings of the Arvizos; instead of asking if they “escaped” Neverland, he asked simply if they had “left” Neverland!

27 Q. Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about the


28 Arvizos, okay? In 2003, what members of the Arvizo 4666


1 family were visiting Neverland?


2 A. It was just the kids and the mother.


3 Q. Okay. So the three children, Davellin,


4 Star, Gavin, and the mother?


5 A. And the mother.


6 Q. Do you know her name?


7 A. Janet.


8 Q. Okay. Did you participate in bringing them


9 to Neverland in any fashion on that visit, first


10 visit, in 2003 I’m talking about?


11 A. Yes, I picked them up at Santa Barbara


12 Airport.


13 Q. Okay. And was Mr. Jackson with them at that


14 time?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. And you drove to Neverland Ranch?


17 A. That is correct.


18 Q. Now, you testified that you would stay very


19 late pursuant to your employment at Neverland.


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. And you’d arrive pretty early, around 7:00,


22 I think you said?


23 A. That is correct.


24 Q. Were you in a position to see who spent the


25 night in Mr. Jackson’s room?


26 A. Yes, I was aware of who was sleeping there.


27 Q. Okay. And during the time that the Arvizo


28 boys, or let’s say the Arvizo children, were at 4667


1 Neverland Ranch, can you tell me where the two boys


2 would sleep?


3 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague as to time.


4 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m talking about the


5 period in 2003. The visit in 2003.


6 MR. MESEREAU: I repeat the objection. It’s


7 vague.


8 THE COURT: Sustained.


9 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: In 2003, you said that


10 you brought the Arvizo family to Neverland. How


11 long did they stay on that — on that particular


12 visit?


13 A. Not exactly sure how long they stayed. But


14 I would say they stayed a week or two, something


15 like that.


16 Q. And did they — they then left the ranch for


17 a period of time?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. How long did they leave the ranch for,


20 about, before they came back?


21 A. I would say about another two weeks.


22 Q. Okay.


23 A. Something like that.


24 Q. And then when they came back to the ranch,


25 how long did they stay?


26 A. That time, I believe they stayed about


27 another, I would say, two weeks, three weeks.


28 Somewhere around there. 4668


1 Q. All right. When they left that time, did


2 they return to the ranch?


3 A. Yes, they came once again.


4 Q. Okay. And how long did they stay the third


5 time?


6 A. About another week.


7 Q. Okay. When they left the third time, how


8 long — did they ever return to the ranch?


9 A. That was the last time I saw them.


10 Q. Okay. Now, this period of these visits that


11 you’ve just described, of visiting the ranch,


12 leaving, visiting, leaving, visiting, and visiting


13 one third time, over what period of time did all of


14 these visits take, if you can estimate in terms of


15 weeks, months? How many weeks or months did it take


16 for all of these visits to take place?


17 A. I would say about five weeks, something like


18 that.


19 Q. All right. Now, tell me how detailed your


20 recollections are about exact dates and exact


21 periods of time concerning this, the visits by the


22 Arvizos.


23 A. I — I don’t remember the dates, okay.


24 Q. Okay.


25 A. It’s just —


26 Q. Are you giving us your best estimates?


27 A. That is the best.


28 Q. Are you — but are you exactly sure about 4669


1 the time periods and the amount of time?


2 A. I’m pretty sure about the time of them being


3 there. But not exact —


4 Q. When you say “the time,” do you mean the


5 dates, or the amount of time?


6 A. The amount of time.

Salas made an egregious error in this next excerpt! He stated that Jackson was at Neverland “pretty much all the time” during the period of time that the Arvizos were coming and going. This is a statement that Mesereau would challenge during his cross examination….


7 Q. Okay. So during this period of time that —


8 these three visits that you talked about that the


9 Arvizos visited Neverland, was Mr. Jackson there


10 during that period of time?


11 A. Yes, he was.


12 Q. Do you know if he was there the entire time


13 or if he had periods where he was gone?


14 A. I would say that he was there most of the


15 time. Pretty much all the time.


16 Q. Okay. Are you sure whether or not he — do


17 you have a specific recollection of whether he left


18 or not and came back; do you know?


19 A. I don’t.

Salas was next asked about where Gavin and Star slept, and he gave a very surprising answer: Salas stated that Star and Gavin were trying to sleep with Mr. Jackson! Also, pay attention to the loaded questions that Auchincloss asked about the children who spent the night in Jackson’s room; he asked if they formed any “special bonds” with Jackson, and if they had any “common characteristics”, which falls in line with the prosecution’s assertion that Jackson only formed “special bonds” with children who “looked” a certain way (e.g. young, male, white, blonde hair, etc.). Much to the delight of the prosecution, Salas said that it was mostly boys who slept in Jackson’s bedroom.

20 Q. During the time — these three visits —


21 during that period of time in which Mr. Jackson was


22 on the property, on Neverland – okay? – can you tell


23 me where the Arvizo boys slept?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Again, vague as to time.


25 Vague as to what visit. Vague as to what portion of


26 the visit.


27 THE COURT: Sustained.


28 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I can tighten that up. 4670


1 Q. Let’s do them one at a time, okay? We’ll do


2 the first one. During the first visit in 2003 of


3 the Arvizo family, during the period of time that


4 Mr. Jackson was on the property, can you tell me


5 where the Arvizo boys slept?


6 A. There was times that they slept in the


7 guesthouse. Okay. There were times that they sleep


8 with — with Mr. Jackson.


9 Q. Okay. And during the time that — during


10 this second visit when they left and came back, can


11 you tell me, during that second visit, where did the


12 Arvizo boys sleep?


13 A. That would be about the same. They sleep


14 with Mr. Jackson. Most of the time I believe that


15 they were trying to sleep with Mr. Jackson.


16 Q. And same question for the third visit.


17 A. And that’s going to be the same answer.


18 Q. Okay. Now, you said that they had a guest


19 room.


20 A. That is correct.


21 Q. Did — let me ask you, first of all, while


22 you were manager, house manager, did you notice if


23 any other children slept in Mr. Jackson’s room,


24 other than the Arvizos?


25 A. There was some other kids.


26 Q. Was it unusual for a kid who was sleeping in


27 Mr. Jackson’s room to also have a guest room?

28 A. No, not really. 4671


1 Q. Did you see Mr. Jackson interact with these


2 children who spent the night in his room?


3 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


4 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Foundational question.


5 THE COURT: Overruled.


6 You may answer.


7 THE WITNESS: He would spend time, because he


8 would play with them.


9 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: And while — and I’m


10 just talking about the year that you were house


11 manager. While you were house manager, how often


12 would he play with these children?


13 A. I would say anytime that he had some spare


14 time he would play with the kids.


15 Q. Okay. Would it be — you tell me. Would it


16 be daily?


17 A. He would try to be with them daily.


18 Q. As far as the children visiting the ranch,


19 did you notice whether or not Mr. Jackson formed —


20 appeared to form any special bonds with certain


21 children?


22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


23 foundation.


24 THE COURT: Sustained.


25 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Over the period of


26 time, and I’m talking just about the time that you


27 were manager of the ranch, you mentioned that you


28 would see the children play with Mr. Jackson, true? 4672


1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. Where would you see them play?


3 A. Well, they would go to the park. They would


4 go for a walk. They would go bike riding. Or they


5 have quads, and they would ride the quads


6 everywhere.


7 Q. Quads, what — what are quads?


8 A. The four-wheelers.


9 Q. Those are motorized vehicles?


10 A. Right.


11 Q. Did you see them in the house?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. Did you see them having meals together?


14 A. Yes, I did.


15 Q. Would you see this on a daily basis?


16 A. Pretty much.


17 Q. So over that period of time, did you notice


18 whether or not he formed any special bonds with


19 certain children?


20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague and


21 foundation.


22 THE COURT: Sustained.


23 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: These children who


24 spent the night in Mr. Jackson’s room, did they


25 share any common characteristics?


26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


27 foundation.


28 THE COURT: Overruled. 4673


1 You may answer.


2 THE WITNESS: Go ahead and ask me the


3 question again.


4 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. The question is,


5 the children that spent the night in Mr. Jackson’s


6 room that you’ve talked about, did they share


7 anything in common, any common characteristics?


8 MR. MESEREAU: Vague; foundation.


9 Objection.


10 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did they have anything


11 in common?


12 Sorry.


13 THE COURT: All right. Objection sustained.


14 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Do you know if these


15 children, whether or not — did you notice the age


16 of these children?


17 A. They were around 10, 11. Around that age.


18 Q. Did you notice what gender they were?


19 A. No, I don’t.


20 Q. Did you notice whether they were boys or


21 girls?


22 A. Well, yes, they were mostly boys.


23 Q. Did you ever see anyone else sleep in Mr.


24 Jackson’s room other than these children?


25 A. Pretty much it was just the boys. That’s


26 about it.

Next, Salas was questioned about the alcohol at Neverland. As a house manager, Salas was responsible for stocking the alcohol, so he was well aware of the security protocols concerning the handling and storage of it. Salas testified that, although he never saw Jackson drinking alcohol, he did see Jackson exhibiting what appeared to him to be the effects of alcohol, including being drunk (although this obviously could have been prescription drugs, which Jackson was taking due to back pains and other medical issues):

27 Q. You previously testified that there was


28 alcohol on Neverland, true? 4674


1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. And I think you said you were somewhat


3 responsible for stocking the alcohol at Neverland as


4 house manager?


5 A. That is correct.


6 Q. Did Mr. Jackson drink?


7 A. Yes, he did.


8 Q. Are you aware of what his drinks of choice


9 were, what he liked to drink, in terms of alcohol?


10 A. Well, he drink wine and vodka also.


11 Q. Okay. Where was the wine stored on the


12 property?


13 A. Most of the wine, it was in the wine cellar.


14 We also have wine in the house.


15 Q. Where in the house?


16 A. In the refrigerators.


17 Q. In the kitchen area?


18 A. Right.


19 Q. And the vodka, where was that kept?


20 A. In the kitchen.


21 Q. Okay. Was there any — was it any secret at


22 Neverland that Mr. Jackson drank alcoholic


23 beverages?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague; calls for


25 speculation; foundation.


26 THE COURT: Sustained.


27 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Mr. Salas, were you


28 ever told by anybody that Mr. Jackson’s drinking was 4675


1 to be concealed from anybody?


2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay;


3 foundation.


4 THE COURT: Sustained.


5 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: On which basis, Your


6 Honor?


7 THE COURT: Hearsay.


8 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did you see Mr. Jackson


9 drinking at Neverland?


10 A. I never saw him drinking.


11 Q. Have you ever seen him exhibiting the


12 effects of drinking?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. On how many occasions?


15 A. Well, lately it was on a pretty much regular


16 basis.


17 Q. A regular basis?


18 A. Right.


19 Q. Did you ever see Mr. Jackson where he


20 appeared to have been drinking a great deal, that he


21 appeared to be drunk?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. Did you ever see him appear to be drunk —

24 well, let me ask you this: Was there ever any


25 effort that you saw to conceal this fact that Mr.


26 Jackson had been drinking, that he was drunk, to


27 conceal that fact from his children?


28 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague; leading; 4676


1 foundation.


2 THE COURT: Foundation; sustained.


3 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Mr. Salas, when you saw


4 Mr. Jackson when he was drunk, did you ever see him


5 in the presence — in that condition, in the


6 presence of his children?


7 A. Yes, I did.


8 Q. On more than one occasion?


9 A. Yes.


10 Q. Can you tell me how many or approximate?


11 A. Well, I couldn’t tell you exactly how many


12 times, but it was quite a few times.


13 Q. During that period of time — and tell me —


14 let’s get time specific here. What time frame are


15 we talking about? Is this when you were house


16 manager?


17 A. That is correct.


18 Q. During that period of time did you ever see


19 Mr. Jackson make any effort to conceal his condition


20 from his children?


21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;


22 foundation; calls for speculation.


23 THE COURT: I’m going to allow an answer to


24 that question, but again, it’s a foundational


25 question.


26 So it can only be answered “yes” or “no.”


27 I’ll have the court reporter read it back to you.


28 We’re asking do you have this knowledge. 4677


1 (Record read.)


2 THE WITNESS: Can you ask me the question a


3 different way?




5 Q. My question is, during the period of time


6 when you saw Mr. Jackson when he was drunk in the


7 presence of his children, did Mr. Jackson do


8 anything to hide the fact that he had been drinking


9 or that he was drunk when that occurred, when you


10 saw that?


11 MR. MESEREAU: Same objection.


12 THE COURT: Overruled.


13 You may answer.


14 THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge.

Here is Salas’ recollection of his lack of any knowledge of the Arvizo children being in the wine cellar, although he remembered that there were other children throughout the years who went down there. Salas also was asked to describe the times that he served Jackson alcohol in the presence of children:

15 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: You said that wine is


16 stored in the wine cellar. Is there any hard liquor


17 that’s ever kept in the wine cellar?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. What kind of hard liquor?


20 A. There’s some whiskey, I believe. Some


21 tequila. Pretty much that’s it.


22 Q. And was there whiskey and tequila in the


23 wine cellar during the time that the Arvizo children


24 were there in 2003?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. Did you ever see kids go into the wine


27 cellar, any kids, during your period of time as


28 house manager? 4678


1 A. Yes.


2 Q. And did you ever see the Arvizo kids go into


3 the wine cellar?


4 A. I never saw them down in the wine cellar.


5 Q. Did you ever see them come out of the wine


6 cellar?


7 A. No.


8 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any reports, as


9 house manager, that the Arvizo children were in the


10 wine cellar?


11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


12 THE COURT: Overruled.


13 You may answer.


14 THE WITNESS: Not specifically the Arvizo


15 kids.


16 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. Have you ever


17 served wine or any alcoholic beverage to Mr. Jackson


18 when he was in the presence of children?


19 A. Yes, I did.


20 Q. On more than one occasion?


21 A. I would say that was a couple times.


22 Q. Do you remember any of the children that


23 were with him when you served him alcoholic


24 beverages, or wine, let’s say?


25 A. I’m not exactly what kids were in there, but


26 I know the Arvizos were there, the kids, and some


27 other kids that were there as well.


28 Q. Okay. Now, tell me, was there a time when 4679


1 you brought him some wine and four glasses?


2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


3 THE COURT: Sustained.

Salas was asked to describe the first few times that he recalled serving alcohol to Jackson in the presence of children. The importance of this particular incident will be revealed later on in this trial when Jackson’s young cousin Rijo testified that Jackson went to the bathroom right before Salas delivered the alcohol, and Star and Gavin (who were in Jackson’s bedroom with him) took the alcohol, ran to the upstairs suite, and drank some of it:

4 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. Tell me — you


5 said there was a couple of times that you brought


6 Mr. Jackson wine in the presence of children. Tell


7 me about the first one you remember. When was it?


8 A. It was at nighttime.


9 Q. Do you remember when it was in terms of the


10 year that you served as house manager,


11 approximately?


12 A. Well, it was — I would say it was January


13 somewhere. January, somewhere around there.


14 Q. Of 2002, 2003?


15 A. 2003.


16 Q. And about what time of night?


17 A. It was about — I would say it was about


18 nine o’clock.


19 Q. And where did you go, what room?


20 A. I went to Mr. Jackson’s bedroom, upstairs.


21 Q. And what did you bring to Mr. Jackson’s


22 bedroom?


23 A. I brought some glasses, and some wine.


24 Q. What type of wine; do you remember?


25 A. I don’t remember the type of wine.


26 Q. Do you remember whether it was red or white?


27 A. I want to say that it was a white wine.


28 Q. What type of glasses did you bring? 4680


1 A. Glass — it was just glass wines.


2 Q. I’m sorry?


3 A. Glass wines.


4 Q. Wine glass?


5 A. No, let me back up. It was just glasses,


6 normal glasses.


7 Q. Normal glasses?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Were they tall glasses or short glasses?


10 A. Short glasses.


11 Q. Can you describe them?


12 A. Short glasses.


13 Q. And who ordered this wine?


14 A. Mr. Jackson.


15 Q. Did you talk to him personally?


16 A. Yes.


17 Q. What did he tell you?

18 A. He called me and asked me to bring some


19 glasses to his room and some wine.


20 Q. Did he tell you how many glasses?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. How many?


23 A. Four of them.


24 Q. All right. So you brought the — and did


25 you do as he ordered you to do?


26 A. Yes, I did.


27 Q. And when you delivered this wine, did you


28 deliver it to his bedroom? 4681


1 A. Yes, I did.


2 Q. Did you deliver it to the lower portion of


3 his bedroom or the upstairs portion?


4 A. Just to the lower portion.


5 Q. Was Mr. Jackson or any of the children


6 present when you delivered this wine?


7 A. Yes, there were.


8 Q. Who was present?


9 A. The kids that were there. Gavin, and I


10 believe it was also Frank’s brothers, the ones that


11 were there. But let me tell you something else. He


12 also ordered some sodas with that.


13 Q. Okay. So what do you mean, “some sodas”?


14 A. He also asked me to bring some sodas with


15 that order.


16 Q. Tell me what you mean by “sodas.”


17 A. Yes, just the normal soda cans.


18 Q. Soda drinks?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. Now, you have previously talked to the


21 sheriffs about this incident, haven’t you?


22 A. Right. Right.


23 Q. And described for them that you brought a


24 bottle of wine and glasses?


25 A. Uh-huh.


26 Q. Let me back up. Let me back up.


27 So you brought some wine and glasses, and


28 some sodas? 4682


1 A. Uh-huh.


2 Q. Let’s move on to the second incident first,


3 okay?


4 Tell me about the second incident. When did


5 that occur?


6 A. That was — it was also — it was also


7 nighttime.


8 Q. Nighttime?


9 A. Right.


10 Q. About what time?


11 A. That time it was about around eleven


12 o’clock. Somewhere around 11:00.


13 Q. And was this before or after the incident


14 that you just described?


15 A. That was after.


16 Q. And who placed the order on this occasion?


17 A. Mr. Jackson.


18 Q. And what did he order?


19 A. Some more wine.


20 Q. Okay. Did he also ask for glasses?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. How many glasses?


23 A. This time I believe it was just one glass.


24 It was just for him.


25 Q. Okay. And who was present when that — when


26 you delivered that wine?


27 A. I’m not exactly sure who was there, but I


28 believe this time it was himself at night. 4683


1 Q. But I’m talking about — you said there were


2 two times that children were present when you served


3 him. I’m talking about the second time that


4 children were present.


5 A. Yeah, that time I’m not exactly who was


6 there, how many of the kids were there.


7 Q. You’re not sure?


8 A. No, I’m not sure.


When Salas spoke to sheriff’s investigators about the first incident, he forgot to mention that he also delivered sodas for Gavin, Star, and Rijo! Why does this not surprise me?

9 Q. All right. Now, let’s go back to this


10 time — this first incident where you said that you


11 served wine and soda. You have been interviewed


12 about this by the sheriff’s department, right?


13 A. That is correct.


14 Q. And you were interviewed back in, I believe


15 it was, 2003; is that right?


16 A. That’s correct.


17 Q. And when you talked to the sheriff’s


18 department about this, you never mentioned anything


19 about any soda?


20 A. No, I didn’t.


21 Q. And why is that?


22 A. I don’t know. It just — it just flip out


23 right now to my mind.


24 Q. You just remembered it just this second?


25 A. Right.


26 Q. And you said that you came back and the


27 bottle of wine was empty?


28 A. That is correct. 4684


1 Q. Was there any other liquor you brought?


2 A. No, that was the second time —


3 Q. I’m talking about the first time.


4 A. No, that was it.


5 Q. And when you came back, was the bottle


6 empty?


7 A. Yes, it was.

Here is where Salas describes the complaints that he received about the “Los Olivos” kids who were caught in the wine cellar by themselves one morning in October 2002. They were described by Salas as being “drunk” and “intoxicated”, and there was also a second incident where they appeared to have been drinking inside of the main house :

8 Q. Okay. The wine cellar. You said you didn’t


9 ever have any complaints of — hear of any


10 complaints regarding the Arvizos. Did you ever have


11 any other complaints of any other children in the


12 wine cellar?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. And do you know which children they were?


15 A. When I was given those complaints, it was


16 about the kids from Los Olivos.


17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. If I could have the


18 Elmo again, Your Honor, please.


19 Q. Showing you People’s Exhibit 45. Is that


20 one of the kids you’re talking about?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. 46?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. That’s one of the kids?


25 A. That’s correct.


26 Q. And 47.


27 A. That is correct.


28 Q. Okay. Are there any other kids that you’re 4685


1 referring to, or is that everybody that we’re


2 talking about?


3 A. No, I did get some other complaints about


4 some other kids which wasn’t these kids.


5 Q. Okay. Now, these three kids that — I think


6 you’ve identified them as being from Los Olivos


7 previously, correct?


8 A. That’s correct.


9 Q. We’ll call them “the Los Olivos boys,” okay?


10 A. Okay.


11 Q. Now, the Los Olivos boys, you said you had a


12 complaint, complaints regarding them in the wine


13 cellar. What was the nature of the complaint?


14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


15 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It’s offered to explain


16 conduct.


17 THE COURT: Whose conduct?


18 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Mr. Salas’s. And I can


19 tell you at sidebar where I’m going, if you like.


20 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.


21 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did you personally ever


22 see the Los Olivos boys in the wine cellar?


23 A. Not in the wine cellar, but I saw them come


24 out.


25 Q. You saw them coming out of the wine cellar.


26 And when you saw them coming out of the wine cellar,


27 what time of day are we talking about?


28 A. Early in the morning, around eight o’clock 4686


1 in the morning.


2 Q. And during that previous — let’s say the


3 ten hours — well, let’s see, let me back up.


4 Do you know if Mr. Jackson was in the wine


5 cellar with them?


6 A. That early morning, or late night, early


7 morning, Mr. Jackson was with the kids.


8 Q. And when you saw these kids come out of the


9 within cellar, did you notice whether or not they


10 exhibited any signs of being intoxicated?


11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


12 THE COURT: Overruled.


13 You may answer.


14 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.


15 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Tell me what you saw.


16 A. When I saw the boys coming out of the


17 arcade, which is where the wine cellar is, the kids


18 weren’t acting normal. So I approached one of them,


19 and I said, “Are you okay?” That’s when I noticed


20 that the kids were drunk.


21 Q. How drunk were they, if you could


22 characterize it?


23 A. I would say that they were — what would you


24 call it? I mean, you can tell that they were drunk.


25 I mean, I could see that they had been drinking.


26 Q. What were they doing that made you believe


27 they’d been drinking?


28 A. The way they were acting. I mean, they 4687


1 weren’t just normal. Something was wrong with the


2 kids.


3 Q. Did you notice any other times when these


4 three boys had been drinking, and it was apparent to


5 you that they had been drinking?


6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;


7 relevance; foundation.


8 THE COURT: Overruled.


9 You have may answer.


10 THE WITNESS: Your question was what date?


11 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: No, my question —


12 you’ve told us about one incident where you noticed


13 the three Los Olivos boys had been drinking. I want


14 to know if you ever observed a second time that


15 these same boys had been drinking.


16 A. Yes, there was a second time.


17 Q. And when was that?


18 A. I want to say it was — it was after that


19 one. Not exactly sure, you know, how many weeks


20 after that. But I would say it was two, three weeks


21 after that one.


22 Q. And when was the first time, approximately?


23 A. I want to say it was in October when I saw


24 those kids the first time.


25 Q. 2002? 2003? You tell me.


26 A. It was 2002, I believe.


27 Q. Okay. And where did you see these boys the


28 second time when they appeared to have been 4688


1 drinking?


2 A. At the house.


3 Q. Inside the house?


4 A. Yes. Well, they were everywhere, but, yes,


5 they were in the house.


6 Q. Was Mr. Jackson on the property at that


7 time?


8 A. Yes, he was.


9 Q. Had these boys been spending any time with


10 Mr. Jackson that day?


11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.


12 THE COURT: Sustained.


13 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Had you observed


14 whether or not Mr. Jackson had spent any time with


15 these boys earlier that day?


16 A. I don’t believe that day he spent time with


17 them. They were alone.


18 Q. Okay. Did you see the boys all — during


19 the entire time they were on the property?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. You were with them the entire time?


22 A. No.


23 Q. So do you know whether or not they spent


24 time with Mr. Jackson for certain?


25 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;


26 foundation.


27 THE COURT: Argumentative; sustained.


28 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. So what portion 4689


1 of that day did you spend actually observing the


2 boys? Let me back up. Let me back up. How long


3 were these boys on the property that particular day?


4 A. They were there till twelve o’clock, one


5 o’clock.


6 Q. At night?


7 A. Uh-huh.


8 Q. Or one o’clock in the morning, I guess?


9 A. One o’clock in the morning, yes.


10 Q. And when did they arrive?


11 A. They arrived around noontime.


12 Q. And how much of that time — so that’s about


13 12 hours, right?


14 A. Right.


15 Q. How many of those hours were they in a place


16 that you could see them, where you were actually


17 seeing them?


18 A. Well, they were back and forth, and they


19 were everywhere, so I really didn’t have a control


20 of watching them or any of that stuff.


21 Q. Okay.


22 A. But they were back and forth in the house,


23 back at the park, different places.


24 Q. Do you know where they got their alcohol?


25 A. No, I don’t.


26 Q. Were you responsible for cleaning the wine


27 cellar?


28 A. Yes. 4690


1 Q. Did you observe any other incidents where


2 Mr. Jackson was in the wine cellar with children? I


3 mean, did that happen on other occasions? And I’m


4 confining this just to the time you were house


5 manager.


6 A. No, I don’t.


7 Q. Do you know? You don’t recall any other


8 times?


9 A. Not that I can remember.

After being grill about the alcohol at Neverland, Salas was next questioned about the pornographic magazines that he observed there, as well as Jackson’s collections of dolls and mannequins that were located in his office. As expected, the prosecution tried to insinuate that Jackson had those mannequins due to a sexual fetish, and asked ridiculous questions about whether or not his children had ever seen them:

10 Q. Okay. Now, during the time that you were


11 house manager, did you ever observe any adult


12 magazines in Mr. Jackson’s private quarters?


13 A. Yes, I did.


14 Q. Did these magazines feature nudity?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. And where were these — which room were


17 these magazines in?


18 A. They were on the first floor on the left


19 side in one of the bathrooms.


20 Q. Were those magazines there in that bathroom


21 during the time that the Arvizos were at Neverland?


22 A. Yes.


23 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Madam Clerk, may I


24 double-check with you? I have three items I’m


25 marking. I want to double-check and make sure these


26 numbers haven’t been used. 777, 778, and 779.


27 THE CLERK: No, they haven’t.


28 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: All right. Thank you. 4691


1 May I approach, Your Honor?




3 Q. Mr. Salas, I show you People’s Exhibit 777.


4 Can you identify that for me, please?


5 A. Yes. These are some statues that were in


6 Mr. Jackson’s office.


7 Q. I show you People’s Exhibit 778. Would you


8 please identify that for me?


9 A. Yes, they were also in his office.


10 Q. And People’s Exhibit 779?


11 A. Yes. That is correct. They were in his


12 office.


13 Q. Okay. Thank you. Can you tell me where


14 these statues were located?


15 A. They were located in Mr. Jackson’s office.


16 They were placed on different stands.


17 Q. Were they on display?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. Over what period of time are we talking


20 about?


21 A. Well, they have been there a long time.


22 Q. Were they there the entire time you were


23 house manager?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Were they there during the time that the


26 Arvizos were present on the property?


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. Were they there — did Mr. Jackson’s 4692


1 children ever visit that office?


2 A. Yes.


3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, I’d like to


4 offer into evidence People’s Exhibit 777, 778 and


5 779 at this time.


6 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.


7 THE COURT: It’s admitted. All three.


8 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: All right. If I may


9 publish these, Your Honor.


10 THE COURT: All right.


11 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: All right. Showing you


12 People’s Exhibit 777, is that an accurate depiction


13 of one of the dolls that you saw in Mr. Jackson’s


14 office?


15 A. That is correct.


16 Q. Or statues. Whatever they are.


17 778, there are two photographs there. Do


18 those photographs accurately depict the dolls that


19 were present during the period of time that you were


20 house manager in Mr. Jackson’s office?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. And 779; same questions. Were those — are


23 those accurate depictions of what you observed in


24 Mr. Jackson’s office during the time that you were


25 house manager?


26 A. That is correct.

Next, Salas was questioned about the fact that he took the Arvizos to the parents of Janet Arvizo late one night at their request, and about any special rules concerning how they were to be treated at Neverland. Salas stated that he was told by Janet that she was not “allowed” to leave the ranch:

27 Q. All right. Going back to the period of time


28 when the Arvizos were on the property, was there – 4693


1 and I want to talk about the first visit, the first


2 visit in 2003, after you picked up the Arvizos from


3 the airport.


4 You previously testified that they were at


5 Neverland for a period of approximately two weeks.


6 Mr. Salas, during that period of time did you


7 observe the Arvizo family to be restricted in any


8 way?


9 A. That is correct.


10 Q. In what way were they restricted?


11 A. I believe they weren’t allowed to leave


12 Neverland Valley Ranch.


13 Q. And why do you say that?


14 A. Because I had a talk to the mother and she’s


15 the one that told me.


16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, that’s hearsay.


17 Move to strike.


18 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Goes to state of mind.


19 Also offered to explain this witness’s conduct


20 later.


21 THE COURT: I will admit it for the limited


22 purpose of explaining the conduct of Jesus. It’s


23 not to be used for the truth of the matter asserted


24 by Janet.


25 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: All right.


26 Q. So at some point, did you personally help


27 the Arvizo family to get out of Neverland?


28 A. Yes, I did. 4694


1 Q. How did you do that?


2 A. I took them down to L.A.


3 Q. You drove them personally?


4 A. Yes, I did.


5 Q. Did you take — use — I take it you used


6 one of Mr. Jackson’s cars?


7 A. That is correct. I got a phone call from


8 her, and she wanted to talk to me about something.


9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


10 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It’s offered for the same


11 purpose.


12 THE COURT: It’s nonresponsive. Sustained.




14 Q. So tell me what precipitated your conduct of


15 helping the Arvizos by taking them off the property.


16 What happened? What was it that made you do that?


17 A. Like I said, she called me at my office and


18 wanted to talk to me. So I came over, and I thought


19 it was something that I needed to take care of, you


20 know, in the room. And she asked me to —


21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, hearsay, Your


22 Honor.


23 THE COURT: I’ll admit it for the limited


24 purpose again to explain what he’s doing, not for


25 the truth of the matter that she asserted.


26 THE WITNESS: So she asked me — she told me


27 if I can drive them down to L.A., that she wanted to


28 leave the property. 4695


1 So I ask her, you know, “What’s the reason?


2 Why do you want to leave the property?” She was


3 very —


4 MR. MESEREAU: Same objection.

5 THE COURT: Sustained after he started on


6 another subject.




8 Q. Can you tell me what her emotional state was


9 at the time?


10 A. She was very upset.


11 Q. How was she demonstrating that she was


12 upset?


13 A. Crying.


14 Q. What time of — what time of the day or


15 evening are we talking about here when this


16 happened?


17 A. We’re talking about nighttime.


18 Q. Nighttime?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. Did she express any — did she express any


21 fear while you were talking to her?


22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


23 THE COURT: Sustained.


24 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: When you were talking


25 to her, did she appear to be fearful of something?


26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


27 THE COURT: Sustained.


28 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Tell me about any other 4696


1 emotional — expressions of emotion that she had, if


2 you noticed any.


3 A. Well, she looks very preoccupied. She was


4 just — she wasn’t comfortable there. She just


5 wanted to leave the property.


6 THE COURT: All right. Let’s take our break.


7 (Recess taken.)

To be continued:

3 Comments leave one →
  1. November 17, 2012 12:07 pm

    From Jones’ YT

  2. November 16, 2012 8:08 am

    I know here’s Michael many miles away and he is somehow responsible because he didn’t want them to get in trouble for it?

  3. nannorris permalink
    November 15, 2012 7:13 pm

    I find it interesting that the prosecutor would bring up these local kids being drunk on the premises, yet I dont recall them testifying in this case that they were drinking with Jackson..I would assume the prosecutors went and interviewed them..If they said they were drinking with Jackson , they would have made them come in and testify to it , to back upi the Arvizo stuff….All this shows me is they are using this to dirty MJ up but know he wasnt drinking with those kids , same as the Arvizo boys..
    Reminds me of how Starr said they were making obscene phone calls on the plane and yet they didnt bring people in who were supposed to be the recipient of the calls..I would think they would have gone looking for those people , through the phone records , after all they found a record of a call to Neverland and the town where the Arvizo, grandparents lived …so they should have had a record of those calls and who they went to.. they must have realized that it never happened..kid was lying….

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