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April 4th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Jesus Salas (Direct & Cross Examination), Jason Francia (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 2 of 4

November 17, 2012

After taking a short recess, Salas was asked about the alcohol at Neverland again, specifically it’s storage. After the Los Olivos boys were caught leaving the wine cellar in October 2002, the keys to the cellar were stored in a safe to help restrict access to the cellar.

1 THE COURT: Go ahead, Counsel.


2 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Thank you, Your Honor.


3 Q. Before I continue where I left off with the


4 Arvizos, Mr. Salas, I wanted to ask you a couple of


5 questions about — one involving the wine cellar.


6 At some time during your occupation as the


7 house manager, was there a safe that was put in to


8 keep some of the keys to various places, including


9 the wine cellar?


10 A. Yes, there was.


11 Q. And where was that safe put in?


12 A. It was in the — inside the house in what we


13 call the maids’ room.


14 Q. When was that safe put in?


15 A. It was during the time that we noticed the


16 kids were having access to alcohol.


17 Q. The Los Olivos boys?


18 A. That is correct.


19 Q. And can you help me out with the time frame


20 in terms of what we’re — 2002 or 2003?


21 A. 2003.


22 Q. 2003?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. You said that it was October of 2002 when


25 the problem occurred with the Los Olivos boys.


26 A. Yes, but we didn’t took action until after


27 that. It took us a while to put the key away.


28 Q. Have you previously told detectives that it 4702


1 was in the — it was around December of 2002 that


2 the safe was put in?


3 A. I must have said that. I mean, I could be


4 wrong.


5 Q. Do you have a clear recollection of exactly


6 when the safe went in?


7 A. I don’t know.


8 Q. Do you recall that the safe was there when


9 the Arvizos were there?


10 A. Yes, it was in, the safe.


11 Q. All right. And the wine cellar key, was it


12 kept in that safe?


13 A. That is correct.

Next, Salas described in more detail the ride that he gave to the Arvizos to their grandparents home; it was his idea to use Jackson’s Rolls Royce. Salas told Jackson’s bodyguard Chris Carter that he was taking them away because it was late at night, and he didn’t know exactly who to tell, and Ronald Konitzer wasn’t there at that time. Janet complained to Salas about her fears of Dieter Weisner and Ronald Konitzer, and asked to be driven to her parent’s home.

The next day, Frank Cascio told Salas that the Arvizos were not to leave the property without first notifying him, and told Salas not to do it again. When Janet asked Salas a second time to leave the property, he refused per Frank’s instructions. (The prosecution used this as “proof” that there was a conspiracy to hold them captive at Neverland, and Cascio was part of it.)

14 Q. All right. So when you took the Arvizos


15 from Neverland, what car did you use?


16 A. I used the Rolls Royce.


17 Q. And who was it that decided to use that


18 particular car? Whose decision was that?


19 A. It was my decision.


20 Q. Had you previously done some driving for


21 Mr. Jackson? I know you previously testified you


22 did the limo drive to Neverland. But other than


23 that, had you previously done some driving for


24 Mr. Jackson?


25 A. Yes, I did.


26 Q. And did you previously use that car on


27 occasion?


28 A. Yes. 4703


1 Q. Did you tell anybody that you were taking


2 the Jacksons — or did you tell anybody that you


3 were taking the Arvizos off property?


4 A. Yes, I did.


5 Q. Who did you tell?


6 A. I told Mr. Jackson’s bodyguard, Chris


7 Carter.


8 Q. And why did you tell Chris?


9 A. Because it was not my decision to make to


10 take the family off the property without telling


11 somebody.


12 Q. Okay. Was Dieter on the property at the


13 time?


14 A. Yes, he was.


15 Q. Was Ronald on the property at the time?


16 A. No, he wasn’t.


17 Q. Was Frank on the property at the time?


18 A. Yes, he was.


19 Q. Was there a reason you didn’t tell Dieter or


20 Frank that you were taking them off the property?


21 A. It was late, and the reason I didn’t told


22 them, it was because I didn’t know who to tell, so I


23 told Chris about the situation.


24 Q. Okay.


25 A. And so —


26 Q. Did Miss Arvizo express to you, during that


27 period of time, that she was fearful of anything?


28 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading. 4704


1 THE COURT: Sustained.


2 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did Miss Arvizo express


3 concern to you over any particular individuals at


4 Neverland?


5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


6 THE COURT: Overruled.


7 THE WITNESS: Yes, she did.


8 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Who was she concerned


9 about?


10 A. It was Dieter and Ronald.


11 Q. Was she concerned about Frank at all?


12 A. She didn’t really say too much about Frank.

13 Q. So you drive her off the property. Where


14 did you take her and her children?


15 A. Down south, L.A.


16 Q. Did you take her to a residence?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. Was it a house or an apartment?


19 A. It was a house.


20 Q. And was it the place — did she direct you


21 to the location where she wanted to go?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. Did you get in any trouble for taking the


24 Arvizos off the property?


25 A. Yes, I did.


26 Q. Tell me about that.


27 A. Well, the next day, I was told that they


28 weren’t supposed to leave the property. 4705


1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


2 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I can ask a couple of


3 other questions that will tighten it up, Your Honor.


4 THE COURT: All right. I’ll strike the


5 answer.


6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: And this answer will be


7 offered in furtherance.


8 Q. Who told you you were in trouble?


9 A. The first person that told me, it was Frank.


10 Q. Frank Tyson?


11 A. Uh-huh.


12 Q. And what did Frank tell you?


13 A. He told me not — that they weren’t supposed


14 to leave the property. They were supposed to be


15 notified first.


16 Q. Who was supposed to be notified first?


17 A. Him.


18 Q. Did he tell you how to handle yourself in


19 the future?


20 A. Yes, he did.


21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


22 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’ll rephrase.


23 THE COURT: Sustained.


24 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did he make any remarks


25 to you concerning the future?


26 A. Yes, he did.


27 Q. What did he say?


28 A. Not to make — I mean, if it was a second 4706


1 time, not to do that anymore.


2 Q. Not to let the Arvizos off the property if


3 they come back?


4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


5 THE COURT: Sustained.


6 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.


7 THE COURT: Stricken.


8 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Did anybody else tell


9 you that you did the wrong thing?


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. Who was that?


12 A. Dieter.


13 Q. What did Dieter tell you?


14 A. Same thing.


15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


16 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Same purpose.


17 THE COURT: Overruled. It’s admitted for the


18 limited purpose under the conspiracy instruction


19 that I talked to you about earlier. Go ahead.


20 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Tell us what Dieter


21 told you.


22 A. He told me the same thing; that next time I


23 should tell them about the situation first.


24 Q. Did the Arvizos — well, let me back up.


25 When Miss Arvizo was talking to you about her desire


26 to leave the ranch, did you speak English with her?


27 A. Yes, I did.


28 Q. Did you ever speak with her in a different 4707


1 language?


2 A. No.


3 Q. Okay. Are you fluent in Spanish?


4 A. Yes, I am.


5 Q. Do you know if she is?


6 A. No, I don’t.


7 Q. Around — well, let’s talk about when they


8 returned to the property. You said a short time


9 after the first — they first left Neverland, the


10 Arvizos returned.


11 A. That’s correct.


12 Q. Were you there when that happened?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. And when they returned to the property, did


15 Mrs. Arvizo ever ask you to transport her off the


16 property on that occasion, on the second visit?


17 A. Yes, she —


18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading; hearsay.


19 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Also offered to explain


20 conduct.


21 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. And


22 I’ll admit it for the limited purpose of explaining


23 his behavior. Go ahead.


24 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: What was your answer?


25 A. Yes. Yes, I was.


26 Q. And when did she make that request of you,


27 in relationship to the time that she arrived?


28 A. I would say it was — it was about a week 4708


1 when she asked me again.


2 Q. And did you take her off the property that


3 time?

4 A. No, I didn’t.


5 Q. Why not?


6 A. Because I was told not to do that anymore.


7 Q. Now, at some point the Arvizos left


8 Neverland —


9 A. Yes, they did.


10 Q. — for the final time.


11 Have you ever seen them since that time?


12 A. That was the last time I saw them.

Auchincloss finished his direct examination with a question about whether Salas remembered the “special event” that took place during his interview with police; the event that he was referring to was the raid on Neverland:

13 Q. Do you recall when you were first


14 interviewed about the general facts that you’ve just


15 described for us by law enforcement?


16 A. Yes.


17 Q. And was there anything special about that


18 particular day when you first spoke to law


19 enforcement?


20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague; leading.


21 THE COURT: Overruled.


22 You may answer.


23 THE WITNESS: When you said about special,


24 what do you mean?


25 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Was there anything


26 unusual that happened on that date —


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. — that you’re aware of? 4709


1 A. Yes, it was.


2 Q. What was it?


3 A. That was when the police came over to Mr.


4 Jackson’s house.


5 Q. The day of the search warrant?


6 A. The day of the search, yes.


7 Q. Do you remember what month that was?


8 A. It was November.


9 Q. Okay. So you told the police about this,


10 helping the Arvizos, on the same day as the search


11 warrant was issued, or executed, I should say; is


12 that accurate?


13 A. That is correct.


14 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Thank you, Mr. Salas. I


15 have no further questions.


16 THE COURT: Okay. Cross-examine?


17 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor.

Salas’ cross examination by Mesereau began with the details of his interview with Jesus Castillo (who was one of Mesereau’s investigators) on January 9th, 2005. During this interview, Salas stated that Gavin and Star only slept in the lower portion of Jackson’s bedroom, not upstairs, and that all guests (not just children) get first class service at Neverland:





21 Q. Good morning.


22 A. Good morning.


23 Q. Is it Mr. Salas or Salazar?


24 A. Salas.


25 Q. Salas, okay. My name is Tom Mesereau and I


26 speak for Michael Jackson, okay?


27 We haven’t spoken before, right?


28 A. I believe we have. Didn’t you call me one 4710


1 time or something like that?


2 Q. I didn’t. That was an investigator.


3 A. It wasn’t you.


4 Q. Okay. You spoke to one of our investigators


5 named Jesus Castillo, correct?


6 A. That is correct.


7 Q. And you spoke to him around January 9th,


8 2005, right?


9 A. Must have been, yes.


10 Q. Okay. Okay. And do you know — where did


11 that interview take place; do you know?


12 A. Yes. Was it the Holiday Inn, Santa Maria?


13 Q. Okay. And approximately how long do you


14 remember speaking with our investigator, Jesus


15 Castillo?


16 A. It took, I would say, about half an hour.


17 Q. Okay. And do you remember you told Mr.


18 Castillo that when you told the police that you


19 remembered Gavin and Star sleeping in Mr. Jackson’s


20 room, you meant the lower portion of the two-level


21 suite, correct?


22 A. That is correct.


23 Q. You told Mr. Castillo that Mr. Jackson’s


24 room has an upstairs portion and a downstairs,


25 correct?


26 A. That is correct.


27 Q. And you told him that you never saw Gavin or


28 Star sleeping in Mr. Jackson’s bed located upstairs, 4711


1 right?


2 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’ll object; foundation.


3 THE COURT: Overruled.


4 You may answer.


5 THE WITNESS: That is correct. I never saw


6 them sleeping in the bed. I saw them out of bed,


7 not sleeping.


8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Right. The only place you


9 ever saw Gavin or Star sleeping was in the


10 downstairs portion of Mr. Jackson’s room, right?


11 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; foundation.


12 THE COURT: Overruled.


13 You may answer.


14 THE WITNESS: That is correct.


15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. And you remember


16 many guests of Mr. Jackson sleeping in his room,


17 sometimes upstairs and sometimes downstairs, right?


18 A. That is correct, if you’re talking about the


19 boys, yes.


20 Q. Yeah. He had guests come and sleep from


21 time to time —


22 A. That is correct.


23 Q. — in that suite, correct?


24 A. That is correct.


25 Q. Sometimes you’d see them upstairs, sometimes


26 you’d see them downstairs, right?


27 A. That is correct.


28 Q. Okay. Now, one time you suspected that 4712


1 Gavin might have been drinking at a dinner table,


2 right?


3 A. That is correct.


4 Q. But you never saw Gavin drinking, right?


5 A. That is correct.


6 Q. And his family used to have dinner at the


7 dinner table, right?


8 A. That is correct.


9 Q. His mother used to have dinner at the dinner


10 table, correct?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you questions


13 about whether or not children have a lot of freedom


14 at Neverland, right?


15 A. Right.


16 Q. And your answer was basically they do,


17 right?


18 A. That is correct.


19 Q. And so do their parents have freedom at


20 Neverland, correct?


21 A. That is correct.


22 Q. The prosecutor asked you about something


23 along the lines of first-class service. Do you


24 remember that?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. And you said that Mr. Jackson liked to have


27 his guests get high-quality service, right?


28 A. That is correct. 4713

1 Q. But when you said that, you were also


2 including adult guests, correct?


3 A. Right.


4 Q. And when you were there and you saw Janet


5 Arvizo there, she was getting first-class service,


6 true?


7 A. Yes, she was.


8 Q. Do you remember a period of time when Janet


9 Arvizo was there with her former husband, David


10 Arvizo? Do you remember that?


11 A. One time, yes.


12 Q. And they both were entitled to first-class


13 service, correct?


14 A. That is correct.


15 Q. And when Janet came with just her children,


16 she had all the privileges that guests get at


17 Neverland, right?


18 A. That is correct.


19 Q. She was able to enter the main residence,


20 right?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. She was able to order food when she wanted,


23 correct?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. She could sit at the dinner table at the


26 main house and have dinner, or lunch, or breakfast,


27 right?


28 A. That is correct. 4714


1 Q. She also was allowed to enter the kitchen


2 and sit at that bar area and order breakfast when


3 she chose, right?


4 A. That is correct.


5 Q. She also ordered room service when she


6 wanted, right?


7 A. That is correct.


8 Q. And do you know which quarters she stayed


9 in?


10 A. If I remember, it was on Unit 4.


11 Q. And that’s one of the most beautiful rooms


12 on that property, isn’t it?


13 A. Yes, it is.


14 Q. It’s a room where Elizabeth Taylor and


15 Marlon Brando request to stay, or used to request to


16 stay from time to time, correct?


17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; relevancy.


18 THE COURT: Sustained.


19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Janet was entitled to the


20 same service that guests like Elizabeth Taylor and


21 Marlon Brando would get, correct?


22 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; relevancy.


23 THE COURT: Overruled.


24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Right?


25 A. That is correct.


26 Q. And when you told the jury that the theater


27 would be open day and night, adult guests also were


28 allowed to go into the theater day or night, right? 4715


1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. And when you told the prosecutor that there


3 was some rooms in the theater with beds in them,


4 adults could use those rooms, true?


5 A. That is correct.


6 Q. The prosecutor talked about candy and sodas


7 and food being available at all hours of date. They


8 were also available for adult guests, correct?


9 A. That is correct.


10 Q. And isn’t it true that Mr. Jackson wanted


11 his adult guests to have special, classy service,


12 right?


13 A. That is correct.

Next, Salas testified about the policies and procedures that were followed when children visited Neverland. He confirmed that Jackson was never in charge of the busloads of children who would visit Neverland (it was the adults who chaperoned them), and had little interaction with the vast majority of children who visited.:

14 Q. Now, you saw kids at Neverland visiting when


15 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, correct?


16 A. That is correct.


17 Q. And typically, if kids visited Neverland


18 when Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, there were rules that


19 were supposed to be followed for safety, as you


20 said, right?


21 A. That is correct.


22 Q. And typically, it was their parents or


23 whatever adults were with them that appeared to be


24 in charge of them, correct?


25 A. That is correct.


26 Q. And you saw busloads of children from


27 various locations visit Neverland from time to time,


28 correct? 4716


1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. And to your knowledge, Mr. Jackson wasn’t in


3 charge of all of those busloads of children, was he?


4 A. No, he wasn’t.


5 Q. In fact, most of the time when lots of kids


6 would visit Neverland, some other adult appeared to


7 be in charge of those kids, right?


8 A. That is correct.


9 Q. And adults and children would visit


10 Neverland and be given tours of Neverland, right?


11 A. That is correct.


12 Q. Who typically would give those tours?


13 A. We assigned different people, employees of


14 Neverland Valley.


15 Q. And tell the jury how a tour would be


16 conducted when children and adults would visit


17 Neverland.


18 A. They were —


19 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Relevancy;


20 beyond the scope.


21 THE COURT: Overruled.


22 Go ahead.


23 THE WITNESS: They would arrive at Neverland


24 Valley Ranch, park on the outside parking lot, walk


25 to the train station. And from there, they were


26 picked up either by train or walk, whatever they


27 preferred to do, okay, take them back to the


28 theater. Enjoy, you know, the petting zoo. They 4717


1 were allowed to visit where they wanted to. I mean,


2 we had a schedule for them and took them everywhere,


3 the property, to show them the place and enjoy the


4 place. And they ended up at the theater and at the


5 park.


6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And you would schedule


7 lots of tours from time to time, right?


8 A. That is correct.


9 Q. Sometimes you’d have a couple of hundred


10 children visiting with adults, correct?


11 A. That is correct. Sometimes more than that.


12 Q. What’s the largest number of kids you


13 remember visiting at one time to Neverland?


14 A. I would say about 300, 300 kids.


15 Q. And did they come with adults who were in


16 charge of them?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. Okay. And did you arrange tours for these


19 children as well?


20 A. Yes. We assigned the personnel to give them


21 a tour, yes.


22 Q. Okay. And sometimes, if Michael Jackson was


23 on the premises, he would come out and say hello,


24 right?

25 A. That is correct.


26 Q. But he never was in charge of what these


27 kids did, right?


28 A. That is correct. 4718


1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; vague as to


2 “kids.”


3 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer’s in.


4 Next question.


5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Who would prepare the


6 schedule to indicate whether children were coming to


7 Neverland on a particular day?


8 A. I believe that came from L.A. office.


9 Q. And would it be posted somewhere?


10 A. Yes. All Neverland personnel got a schedule


11 of the kids coming to Neverland.


12 Q. And would you get a schedule typically the


13 day before or that morning?


14 A. Normally we got it, like, two days before, a


15 day before, yes.


16 Q. And as part of your work, you had to look at


17 the future schedule every day, didn’t you?


18 A. That is correct.


19 Q. Because almost every day something unusual


20 or special would be going on at Neverland, right?


21 A. That is correct.


22 Q. And how long did you work at Neverland?


23 A. The total was 20 years.


24 Q. During that 20-year period, would it be


25 accurate to say that many, many thousands of


26 children came through, right?


27 A. That is correct.


28 Q. They came from Los Angeles, right? 4719


1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. They came from Santa Barbara, right?


3 A. Right.


4 Q. They came from foreign countries, right?


5 A. That is correct, yes.


6 Q. Based upon your experience over 20 years,


7 Neverland was a real attraction for children around


8 the world, wasn’t it?


9 A. Yes, it was.


10 Q. And you considered a major part of your


11 responsibility to be making sure that Neverland was


12 kept up properly so that when children from all over


13 the world came, they’d have a good time, right?


14 A. That is correct.


15 Q. Over 20 years, it may have been hundreds of


16 thousands of children you saw visit, right?


17 A. That is correct.

Pivoting back to Salas’ interview with his investigator, Mesereau made him confirm that he stated that at no time did anyone forcibly keep the Arvizos at Neverland ranch, at no time was she locked in her room, and she never made any complaints about her treatment during her first trip home with Salas:

18 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you about the time


19 Janet Arvizo asked you to drive her to Los Angeles,


20 okay?


21 A. Correct.


22 Q. You told Jesus Castillo, our investigator,


23 that at no time did anyone forcibly keep her at


24 Neverland Ranch, right?


25 A. That is correct.


26 Q. And at no time was she ever locked in her


27 room, right?


28 A. Not that I was aware of. 4720


1 Q. And at no time was she kept at Neverland


2 Ranch against her will, right?


3 A. That is exactly what I said, yes.


4 Q. She called you upset and asked you to take


5 her home and you did so, right?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. You took her, yourself, in December; is that


8 correct? Do you remember what month you took her


9 yourself in the Rolls Royce?


10 A. It was December or January, somewhere around


11 there. Pretty bad on dates.


12 Q. And then she came back, what, in less than a


13 week?


14 A. I would say in about a couple weeks,


15 thereabout.


16 Q. She came back, and then, a few weeks later,


17 wanted to leave again, right?


18 A. That is correct.


19 Q. And you arranged transportation for her to


20 leave again, right?


21 A. Yes, I had to call a limo.


22 Q. And that was, as far as you know, the last


23 time you ever saw the Arvizos, correct?


24 A. Correct.


25 Q. When you drove Ms. Arvizo and her children


26 in the Rolls Royce, she never made any complaints


27 about the way she’d been treated at Neverland,


28 right? 4721


1 A. That is correct.


2 Q. She never said she’d been abused at


3 Neverland, right?


4 A. That is correct.


5 Q. She never said her children had been taken


6 advantage of at Neverland, right?


7 A. That is correct.


8 Q. But she didn’t seem to like Dieter or


9 Ronald, right?


10 A. That is correct, yes.


11 Q. And she told you she was concerned about


12 media attention on her family, right?


13 A. She mentioned about that, yes.


14 Q. Her concerns to you were media attention and


15 the fact that she didn’t like Dieter, right?


16 A. That is correct, yes.


17 Q. She never complained about anything else,


18 did she?


19 A. No.


20 Q. In fact, she told you she respected and


21 liked Michael Jackson, right?


22 A. Yes, she did.


23 Q. She never complained to you about Michael


24 Jackson at all, did she?


25 A. Never.


26 Q. When you drove her in the Rolls Royce, she


27 was in the front seat with you, right?


28 A. Yes. 4722


1 Q. Her children were in the back seat, right?


2 A. That is correct.


3 Q. And you and she spoke during that three-hour


4 trip, right?


5 A. She didn’t spoke too much, but, yes, she


6 did.


7 Q. Did you speak to her very much when she used


8 to stay at Neverland?


9 A. No.


10 Q. Okay. And in — on that trip, excuse me,


11 Janet Arvizo never complained that she was being


12 taken out of the country against her will, did she?


13 A. No, she never said anything.


14 Q. Do you remember when she returned, you


15 think, within the next couple of weeks?


16 A. It was in the next couple of weeks, yes.


17 Q. Do you remember seeing her suddenly show up


18 with her children again?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. And do you know what time of day that was?


21 A. I believe it was afternoon.

22 Q. Did you talk to her when you saw her return?


23 A. Yes, I did.


24 Q. You never got the impression she was there


25 against her will at that point, did you?


26 A. No, I didn’t.


27 Q. The last time Janet and the kids left


28 Neverland, do you know who drove them home? 4723


1 A. Yes, I called a limousine service.


2 Q. So you took her in a Rolls Royce one time,


3 and the last time it was a limousine service that


4 you arranged, true?


5 A. That is correct.


6 Q. Do you remember any other times that Janet


7 and the children left Neverland?


8 A. That was the last time I saw them.


9 Q. So you’re only personally aware of two times


10 where they left Neverland; is that right?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. That you had anything to do with?


13 A. That is correct.

In this excerpt, Salas testified that it was not Jackson’s decision to lock the keys to the wine cellar in a safe:

14 Q. Okay. Now, the prosecutor asked you about a


15 safe that was brought onto the property to lock


16 keys. Do you remember that?


17 A. Uh-huh.


18 Q. And if you remember, whose idea was it to


19 put a safe where the keys could be locked?


20 A. It was the ranch manager idea and my idea.


21 Q. Did you discuss it with Michael Jackson?


22 A. No, we never did.


23 Q. You just ordered a safe?


24 A. We just ordered a safe.


25 Q. And you put the keys in the safe?


26 A. That is correct.


27 Q. And before that, where were the keys kept?


28 A. They were kept in the same room, behind 4724


1 the — behind the door to the entry to the room,


2 yes.


3 Q. Is that the entrance to the wine cellar?


4 A. No, no, no. That’s the entrance to the


5 maids’ room.


6 Q. Okay. Okay. But they were hung out in open


7 view, right?


8 A. That is correct, yes.

Next, Salas testified that the combinations to the locks to Jackson’s room were so well known by so many kids that they had to be routinely changed. This information was very crucial for the defense because it showed what the Arvizo boys were not the only children to gain access to Jackson’s room. Not only did Jackson complain about the young children that would get into his room, but he complained that Frank Cascio would bring guests into his room as well (although Salas could not answer those questions due to Judge Melville sustaining Auchincloss’s objections)

9 Q. Do you remember Frank Tyson’s sister, Marie


10 Nicole?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Do you remember her staying at Neverland?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. Do you remember her walking around the


15 property and playing with Michael Jackson?


16 A. Yes, I do.


17 Q. Was it your impression that the family was


18 close to Michael Jackson?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. Did you see Frank Tyson’s parents visit from


21 time to time?


22 A. That is correct, yes.


23 Q. And do you remember their names?


24 A. I don’t. Sorry.


25 Q. Did you see Frank Tyson’s brothers visit


26 from time to time?


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. Okay. You talked about a combination to Mr. 4725


1 Jackson’s room. Remember that?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. And did you always have that combination?


4 A. Yes, I did.


5 Q. Do you know if anyone else had it, to your


6 knowledge?


7 A. Ranch manager.


8 Q. What about staff who cleaned the room? Did


9 they typically have it?


10 A. Yes. Yes. We have — we had another guy


11 there that also had it, know the combination of the


12 room.


13 Q. And that combination was changed


14 periodically, right?


15 A. My time there, we changed it about a couple


16 times.


17 Q. Okay. Do you remember it being changed


18 because too many people seemed to have it?


19 A. We noticed there was so many kids going into


20 the room, so we figured we change the combination,


21 yes.


22 Q. Do you remember Michael Jackson complaining


23 that Frank was going into his bedroom when Michael


24 was out of town?


25 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; hearsay.


26 THE COURT: Sustained.


27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Was it your understanding


28 that Frank could get into that room on occasion? 4726


1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; foundation.


2 THE COURT: Sustained.


3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know whether or not


4 Frank seemed like he could get into Michael’s


5 bedroom from time to time?


6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; foundation.


7 THE COURT: Sustained.


8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you ever observe Frank


9 in Michael Jackson’s bedroom?


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. Did you ever see Marie Nicole in Michael


12 Jackson’s bedroom?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. And again, when I say “bedroom,” we’re


15 talking about two levels, right?


16 A. That is correct.


17 Q. It’s a rather large area, isn’t it?


18 A. That is correct, yes.


19 Q. And on the lower level, people can sit down


20 and enjoy themselves, can’t they?


21 A. That is correct. Yes.


22 Q. What do you recall there being on the lower


23 level of Michael Jackson’s bedroom when you were


24 working there?


25 A. I just recall that it was a peaceful area


26 that people can sit and enjoy themselves there.


27 Fireplace or — it was pretty peaceful place to be.


28 Q. And he would entertain people in the lower 4727


1 portion of his bedroom, correct?


2 A. That is correct, yes.


3 Q. People would get served food there, correct?


4 A. That is correct, yes.


5 Q. People would get served drinks there, right?


6 A. That is correct.


7 Q. And you say there’s a fireplace?


8 A. There’s a fireplace there.


9 Q. People would sit around the fireplace and


10 chat, correct?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. And sometimes they did it when Mr. Jackson


13 was there, and sometimes they did it when he wasn’t


14 there, right?


15 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Foundation;

16 assumes facts.


17 THE COURT: Overruled.


18 You may answer. Do you want the question


19 read back?


20 MR. MESEREAU: Do you want — I’m sorry.


21 THE WITNESS: Answer it?


22 THE COURT: Yes. Do you want the question


23 read back?


24 THE WITNESS: No, I understood the question.


25 Pretty much when Mr. Jackson wasn’t there,


26 nobody was allowed to go into his room.


27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: There were times when he


28 let people in, weren’t there? 4728


1 A. Yes, there was.


2 Q. And they would have some fun when Mr.


3 Jackson wasn’t even there, right?


4 A. That is correct, yes.


Just to show the jury how comfortable Salas was at Neverland, Mesereau asked him if he had ever brought his daughter to visit, and he confirmed that not only had she visited Neverland, but she played with Jackson on several occasions:

5 Q. Okay. Now, approximately what year did you


6 start working at Neverland?


7 A. Since the beginning, do you mean?


8 Q. Yes.


9 A. I would say in ‘83, 1983.


10 Q. ‘83?


11 A. Uh-huh.


12 Q. So, there was a point in time where your


13 daughter used to visit Neverland, right?


14 A. That is correct.


15 Q. And what is her name?


16 A. Sandra.


17 Q. Sandra used to visit when she was


18 approximately five years old, right?


19 A. Five, six, yes.


20 Q. She used to play with Michael Jackson,


21 right?


22 A. Yes, that is correct.


23 Q. He used to give her gifts, right?


24 A. That is correct, yes.


25 Q. Now, normally do people who work at


26 Neverland bring their children there very often?


27 A. We have — they have what is called “Family


28 Day,” yes. 4729


1 Q. And please tell the jury what “Family Day”


2 is.


3 A. Family Day is a day where it’s open for the


4 employees to bring all your family and have access


5 to all the facilities there, yes.


6 Q. And how often does that happen?


7 A. Once a year at least.


8 Q. And that’s a big event at Neverland, right?


9 A. That is correct, yes.


10 Q. And Michael Jackson closes Neverland off for


11 other visits and lets all of the help and their


12 family take over pretty much, right?


13 A. Yes, sir.


14 Q. And it starts in the morning, doesn’t it?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. Goes late into the evening, right?


17 A. Yes.

In this excerpt, Salas describes his duties at Neverland, the protocols for using the petting zoos, and other facets of everyday life at Neverland:


18 Q. Now, you mentioned a petting zoo before.


19 Please tell the jury what the petting zoo is.


20 A. The petting zoo is a place where they have


21 just little animals for kids, where they can go and


22 play with the animals. We have — I mean, they have


23 a variety of animals where kids can, pretty safe, go


24 and touch the animals.


25 Q. And what kind of animals do you have in the


26 petting zoo?


27 A. Well, they have llamas. They have deers.


28 They are rabbits. They have pigs. Birds. What 4730


1 else do they have? They have lots of animals.


2 Q. And the petting zoo is primarily designed


3 for kids, correct?


4 A. That is correct, yes.


5 Q. And then you have a larger zoo, right?


6 A. That is correct.


7 Q. And please tell the jury what’s in the


8 larger zoo.


9 A. Well, that’s where you can find the big


10 animals. Like you can find elephants, lions,


11 chimpanzees. You can find llamas and different


12 other animals. Wolfs. Stuff like that.


13 Q. You got giraffes, right?


14 A. Giraffes.


15 Q. There’s a camel?


16 A. Right, exactly.


17 Q. And typically, at least once a day, the


18 trainers walk two elephants through the property,


19 right?


20 A. That is correct, yes.


21 Q. And they walk the elephants through the


22 property, and very often guests, if they follow the


23 rules, can feed them, right?


24 A. That is correct, yes.


25 Q. And Mr. Jackson will pay for bags of


26 doughnuts and goodies to give to the elephants,


27 right?


28 A. That is correct, yes. 4731


1 Q. Is that a once-a-day affair?


2 A. Yes, pretty much once a day.


3 Q. Okay. It’s usually a big thing for kids and


4 their parents, right?


5 A. Right.


6 Q. Now, as part of your duties at Neverland,


7 you often would pay for toys for kids, correct?


8 A. That is correct. Yes.


9 Q. And you would be reimbursed, typically, if


10 you spent your own money on toys, right?


11 A. That is correct, yes.


12 Q. You would get a reimbursement check of —


13 for as much as $11,000 from time to time, right?


14 A. That is correct, yes.


15 Q. And what kind of rules did you follow as far


16 as buying toys for kids is concerned?


17 A. Really wasn’t any rules. We just went and


18 bought some toys.


19 Q. But the prosecutor asked you questions about


20 how influential Mr. Jackson was in running affairs.


21 Didn’t he give you a lot of flexibility in just


22 going out, buying hundreds of toys, and then just


23 charging him for it?


24 A. That is correct, yes.


25 Q. And where would you go buy those toys?


26 A. Toys-R-Us.


27 Q. Okay. Would you drive there yourself?


28 A. Pretty much Mr. Jackson came along or with 4732


1 the kids or some adults, yes.


2 Q. And Mr. Jackson would from time to time let


3 you drive parents and their children to Toys-R-Us,


4 right?


5 A. That is correct. Yes.


6 Q. And he would tell you to buy them whatever


7 they’d like, right?


8 A. That is correct, yes.


9 Q. You’d spend thousands of dollars on these


10 kids, right?


11 A. That is correct, yes.

12 Q. And that was one of your responsibilities as


13 ranch manager, right?


14 A. That is correct. Yes.


15 Q. To try and take care of the children as best


16 you could, right?


17 A. Correct, yes.


18 Q. Now, what are the safety regulations in


19 effect at the zoo, to your knowledge?


20 A. Well, there’s certain regulations for the


21 zoo, especially with the big animals. Again, for


22 the safety of the guests or kids, yes.


23 Q. And you have all these amusement rides as


24 well, right?


25 A. That is correct, yes.


26 Q. Please tell the jury what amusements rides


27 you have for the kids and the parents.


28 A. Well, there’s different rides. The Ferris 4733


1 wheel. They have the merry-go-round. They have a


2 big slide. They have a — oh, got — they have the


3 Sea Dragon. They have various rides also for kids,


4 for small kids, yes.


5 Q. And when you have these busloads of kids and


6 adults show up and they want to use the rides, what


7 safety precautions do you have?


8 A. Well, we have a — we just got to make sure


9 that the kids don’t get hurt. We have regulations


10 for that. We have personnel there guiding the kids


11 and taking care of the kids so nobody gets hurt.


12 Q. And the personnel specialize in the


13 amusement park portion of Neverland, right?


14 A. That is correct, yes.


15 Q. And are they in charge of maintaining the


16 rides, making sure the machinery’s okay?


17 A. That is correct, yes.


18 Q. And were they under your supervision?


19 A. No.


20 Q. Okay. Who was supervising the people who


21 run the amusement park?


22 A. There’s — Neverland has different groups of


23 people, you know, like departments, what we call it,


24 and it was the person in charge of the amusement


25 park.


26 Q. Just like there’s a group in charge of the


27 petting zoo and the bigger zoo, right?


28 A. That is correct, yes. 4734


1 Q. And when these children and these adults


2 visit Neverland, these different groups are all


3 available to make sure kids are safe, right?


4 A. That is correct. Yes.

Next, Salas is questioned about the disciplinary measures used to keep the kids out of trouble, and he confirmed that it’s never been Jackson’s responsibility to personally supervise the busloads of kids who would visit. It’s the PARENT’S and CHAPERONE’S responsibility!

5 Q. Now, when you have hundreds of children


6 running around Neverland, they can sometimes get


7 into all kinds of mischievous situations, right?


8 A. Absolutely, yes.


9 Q. You’ve seen kids caught in the house in


10 various rooms, right?


11 A. That is correct.


12 Q. And they’ve been politely asked to leave,


13 right?


14 A. That is correct, yes.


15 Q. You’ve seen kids trying to get in doors


16 they’re not supposed to get through, correct?


17 A. Correct.


18 Q. You’ve seen kids trying to get into the


19 arcade whenever they can, right?


20 A. That is correct, yes.


21 Q. And kids are sometimes caught with things in


22 their hands, little things they found in the main


23 house and they have — you have to take them away


24 from them, right?


25 A. That is correct, yes.


26 Q. And it’s never been your understanding that


27 Mr. Jackson is personally supervising all of this,


28 right? 4735


1 A. No.


2 Q. In fact, he’s amazingly generous in letting


3 people come into his home and go through it, and see


4 it, right?


5 A. Yes, he is.


6 Q. And this is a large home that has a lot of


7 beautiful antiques, correct?


8 A. That is correct, yes.


9 Q. A lot of family pictures, right?


10 A. That is correct, yes.


11 Q. He has things he’s collected from all over


12 the world, right?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. And he often lets whoever visits come


15 through the house so they can see all of this,


16 right?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. And when he has guests stay over in the


19 guest quarters, I believe you said that they pretty


20 much can walk into that main house when they want,


21 right?


22 A. That is correct, yes.


23 Q. He has staff available all the time to


24 prepare a meal for them if they want one, right?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. And in that kitchen area, you have


27 unlocked — an unlocked refrigerator area, correct?


28 A. That’s correct. It’s open. 4736


1 Q. And they can go in there all the time and


2 get sodas, right?


3 A. That is correct.


4 Q. Juice, right?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. Milk?


7 A. Whatever their choice is.


8 Q. And you’ll find wine in there, right?


9 A. That is correct, yes.


10 Q. And he lets his adult guests go in there and


11 get wine when they choose, correct?


12 A. That is correct, yes.


13 Q. And glasses are nearby if they want a glass,


14 right?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. It’s a very large refrigerator area, isn’t


17 it?


18 A. It is.


19 Q. How many glass doors do you think are on


20 that large refrigerated area?


21 A. Oh, God. About six, eight, something like


22 that.


23 Q. Six or eight transparent doors they can go


24 into to get all kinds of beer, wine, soda, milk,


25 orange juice, right?


26 A. That is correct, yes.


27 Q. And there’s a menu that’s posted on a


28 blackboard most days, right? 4737


1 A. That is correct, yes.


2 Q. And what do you typically find on that menu?


3 A. You find the menu for the food or whatever


4 the people wants to use.


5 Q. There’s usually some special dishes that the


6 staff are preparing for that day, right?


7 A. Exactly, yes. Right.


8 Q. And there also is a standard menu that

9 Michael Jackson printed up that he gives that people


10 have to order from, right?


11 A. That is correct, yes.


12 Q. And you got sandwiches and soup and stuff


13 like that, right?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. And on that bar area where people can come


16 anytime of day, you can sit there and just ask


17 whoever is there to prepare eggs or an omelet,


18 whatever you want, right?


19 A. That is correct, yes.


20 Q. And there are homemade buns and doughnuts


21 that are put on there every day, right?


22 A. Right.


23 Q. Anytime of day, 24 hours a day, you can go


24 into that main house and get what you want, correct?


25 A. That is correct, yes.


26 Q. Even when Mr. Jackson is upstairs with his


27 children, very often people will come downstairs to


28 either see the house or get something to eat, right? 4738


1 A. That is correct, yes.

In order to show the jury that there were legitimate security concerns at Neverland, Mesereau questioned Salas about the security procedures manual, and notice how he answered that “many times” people were caught sneaking into Neverland to try to meet Jackson (this further confirms why Jackson installed the security alarms outside of his bedroom suite).

18 Q. You also have sleeping bags stored down in


19 the area near where the wine cellar is, correct?


20 A. That is correct.


21 Q. Did you work there before Mr. Jackson


22 purchased the property?


23 A. Yes, I did.


24 Q. That wine cellar area was already there when


25 Mr. Jackson purchased the property, right?


26 A. Yes, it was.


27 Q. Now, there is a procedures manual at


28 Neverland that, at least on paper, identifies what 4740


1 people are supposed to do or not do, right?


2 A. That is correct.


3 Q. And security is a concern there, is it not?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. Because if you really look at the perimeter


6 of Neverland, you can get in those fences, can’t


7 you?


8 A. Absolutely, yes.


9 Q. In fact, it’s — it’s easy for anyone to go


10 in or out of those three-rail fences anytime, right?


11 A. Absolutely.


12 Q. And you’ve caught people on the property who


13 tried to get over to Neverland and find Mr. Jackson,


14 correct?


15 A. Many times.


16 Q. And there are roads around the property


17 where cars drive at high speeds, correct?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. And there is also a concern that children


20 will somehow wander on the road, right?


21 A. That is correct, yes.


Here is an excerpt from pages 48-49 of Kit Culkin’s book “Lost Boy”, in which he describes someone who snuck into Neverland and went undetected for a few days:


What the child molestation charges of 1993 did, perhaps above all else, were to insist that Michael forever thereafter, as to everything that he would ever do in life, be viewed solely through a lens of pedophilia. I’ll give but a single “for instance”; one that goes to the well-reported on alarm system just outside Michael’s bedroom and the so-called “secret room” actually in that bedroom. Michael, remember, is a scardey-cat, which isn’t to say that there weren’t times when perhaps he had just cause to be so. Take the helicopters that would buzz Neverland on a daily basis (indeed, often several times a day). One could hear their approach over and above the crackling speech on security walkie-talkies, which always attempted to give their positions (“Moving Northeast. Eleven O’clock. Two Hundred Feet. Copy.”); this before their actual arrival, which would be perfectly deafening. It always gave one the sense that an invasion was taking place. So bad and so frequent did these visits become as to cause Michael at one point to make in-depth inquiries regarding the purchase of the air space directly above his property (such as Manhattan real-estate tycoons are allowed); solicitations which only led to his being told that local zoning laws did not allow for this.


Many of these helicopters contained (none-too-surprisingly) “ladies and gentlemen of the press”, who (we should all well know) have an absolute license under the First Article of the Bill of Rights (also known as the First Amendment to the United States Constitution) to do pretty much as they please, no matter how much it may infringe upon an individual’s right to the pursuit of happiness in the privacy of his or her own home. American freedom, after all, depends on it (the media themselves will tell you this); and it is a license that, when it is not our own personal pursuit and our on personal privacy that is at risk, we all perfectly relish! But, be this as it shamefully may, others of these whirly-bird attack squads were not made up of such girls and boys”, but rather of the merely curious; folks who would gladly pay for a helicopter ride who’s tour included as its centerpiece the buzzing of Michael’s home. To Michael the Scardey-Cat they all represented the specter of hooded terrorists, dressed as perfect ninjas, skidding down ropes onto the property, the better to commit “The Kidnapping of the Century”; and even though (in perfect hindsight) none of this ever did occur, there were other times when no less benign incidents would only go to fed this fear. Take the morning when Michael arose and walked into his private garden, there to find a fan crouched in the bushes; a fan “fanatical” enough (for so comes the word) to enter the property and scale the wall and spend the night there (Can anyone yet remember the just who and the just where of John Lennon’s murder?!). That Michael would respond to such as this by actually outfitting his bedroom with a relatively conspicuous store-bought beam alarm system (one that the entire cleaning staff knew existed and that could be simply stepped over), as well as with a so-called “secret room” (really a closet) to which he could run in times of such emergency should not surprise anyone; indeed, these are things that under like circumstances most any of us would do. But when viewed through the lens of pedophilia, the existence of these could only have a far more sinister purpose.


And that (and all like unto it) was Michael’s problem in a nutshell, and there was little that Michael could thereafter ever do about it. It was the bell that couldn’t be un-rung. It was the genie who wouldn’t return to the bottle. It was the negative that can never be disproved. And it was a problem exacerbated by the fact that Michael couldn’t help (as few of us an) but be himself; his prim and prissy self. Unable to speak words like “sexually molest”, he could only respond in his ever effeminate way by saying, “I would never hurt a child”, which only made him sound more than anything else like a charter member of your local man-boy association. It was a perfectly impossible situation for him. He could get married (twice). He could have children (we think). And while we’re on the subject of “could”, he could have gone out and joined the United States Marine Corps and have won himself a tough-man contest. None of it would or could have mattered, just as all of it would or could only go to make him appear all the more ludicrous. Michael’s reputation remained what it couldn’t help but remain In tatters!; and tatters that were well in need of mending.


To be continued:


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