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April 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Ralph Chacon (Direct & Cross Examination), Adrian McManus (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 2 of 5

December 5, 2012

As you can imagine, after having to quietly sit there and listen to all of that garbage, Mesereau was licking his chops to cross examine Chacon! And he surely didn’t disappoint!

He began by questioning Chacon about his frivolous lawsuit against Jackson, in which he and the other four Neverland employees  sued Jackson for breach of contract, wrongful termination, and sexual harassment. Jackson countersued and claimed that they had stolen property from him, and not only did Jackson win, but the Neverland Five were ordered to pay his legal fees of $1,473,117.61, and as a result a everyone except for Adrian McManus had to file bankruptcy!

Specifically, Chacon was found by the jury to have stolen property from Jackson and a $25,000 dollar judgment was held against him for the value of the stolen property. Additionally, he was found to have acted with fraud, oppression, and malice against Jackson (which Chacon agreed with!)  

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

 

2 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

3 Q. Good morning, Mr. Chacon.

 

4 A. Good morning, sir.

 

5 Q. Mr. Chacon, my name is Tom Mesereau, and I

 

6 speak for Mr. Jackson.

 

7 A. Yes, sir.

 

8 Q. I’d like to ask you a few questions about

 

9 that lawsuit you lost. That was the longest civil

 

10 trial in the history of Santa Maria, right?

 

11 A. I don’t know, sir.

 

12 Q. It went about six months, didn’t it?

 

13 A. I believe so, yes, sir.

 

14 Q. You sued Mr. Jackson and you wanted $16

 

15 million, right?

 

16 A. Well, I don’t know about the 16 million.

 

17 Q. You wanted millions, true?

 

18 A. No, sir.

 

19 Q. Really?

 

20 A. Well, I don’t know, sir. Whatever our

 

21 attorney was — he’s the one who was speaking for

 

22 us.

 

23 Q. Okay. We’ll get into that.

 

24 You sued Mr. Jackson claiming you were

 

25 wrongfully terminated, right?

 

26 A. That’s correct, sir.

 

27 Q. He sued you claiming you had stolen property

 

28 from him, true? 5202

 

1 A. That’s correct, sir.

 

2 Q. The jury found you were not wrongfully

 

3 terminated by Mr. Jackson, correct?

 

4 A. But we were, sir.

 

5 Q. Answer my question, please. Did the Santa

 

6 Maria jury find you were not wrongfully terminated

 

7 by Mr. Jackson?

 

8 A. Yes, sir.

 

9 Q. And they also found you had stolen property

 

10 from Mr. Jackson, correct?

 

11 A. But I didn’t, sir.

 

12 Q. Did the Santa Maria jury find you had stolen

 

13 property from Mr. Jackson?

 

14 A. Yes, sir.

 

15 Q. A judgment was entered against you, Mr.

 

16 Chacon, for $25,000, the value of what you had

 

17 stolen, correct?

 

18 A. For candy bars, sir?

 

19 Q. A judgment was entered against you for

 

20 $25,000, the value of what the Court found you had

 

21 stolen, correct?

 

22 A. Well, if a candy bar is worth that much,

 

23 yes, sir.

 

24 Q. That’s not all you owe Mr. Jackson

 

25 currently, is it?

 

26 A. No, sir. I don’t owe him.

 

27 Q. In fact, Judge Zel Canter of this court,

 

28 entered a judgment against you and your 5203

 

1 co-defendants for $1,473,117.61, correct?

 

2 A. Yes, sir.

 

3 Q. He ordered you pay all of Mr. Jackson’s

 

4 legal fees and costs, correct?

 

5 A. Yes, sir.

 

6 Q. Have you ever paid any of that judgment, Mr.

 

7 Chacon?

 

8 A. No, sir. I filed bankruptcy.

 

9 Q. Now, the jury found you not only stole from

 

10 Mr. Jackson, but you acted maliciously, correct?

 

11 A. No, sir.

 

12 Q. Did a judge find you had acted with malice?

 

13 A. No, sir.

 

14 Q. Is there a judgment against you for acting

 

15 with fraud against Mr. Jackson?

 

16 A. That I know of, no, sir.

 

17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look

 

18 at the judgment?

 

19 A. Yes, sir.

 

20 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

21 THE COURT: Yes.

 

22 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

23 Oh, it’s there, sir. I didn’t know. Yes,

 

24 sir.

 

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

26 look at that judgment, Mr. Chacon?

 

27 A. Do you mean right now?

 

28 Q. Yes. 5204

 

1 A. Yes, sir.

 

2 Q. There is not only a judgment against you in

 

3 favor of Mr. Jackson —

 

4 MR. SNEDDON: Wait a minute. I’m going to

 

5 object. He asked to refresh his recollection. He

 

6 should ask him if it did.

 

7 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.

 

8 THE COURT: That’s correct.

 

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

10 look at the judgment against you, Mr. Chacon?

 

11 A. I looked at that, yes, sir. But I don’t

 

12 remember it.

 

13 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that

 

14 there’s a judgment against you for fraud and

 

15 malice —

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. — in favor of Mr. Jackson?

 

18 A. Yes, sir.

 

19 Q. You never heard of that before?

 

20 A. Well, probably, but I don’t remember.

 

21 Q. After a six-month trial, you don’t remember?

 

22 A. Well, it’s been 12 years also, sir, or so.

 

23 Q. Do you remember stipulating and agreeing

 

24 that you had personally acted with fraud, oppression

 

25 and malice against Mr. Jackson?

 

26 A. Probably so, sir.

 

27 Q. You did that, didn’t you?

 

28 A. No, sir. 5205

 

1 Q. You didn’t stipulate that you had acted with

 

2 fraud, oppression, and malice against Mr. Jackson in

 

3 that case?

 

4 A. Well, yes, sir.

 

5 Q. After a six-month trial, this is a good way

 

6 to get even with him, isn’t it?

 

7 MR. SNEDDON: Argumentative. Object, Your

 

8 Honor. Move to strike.

 

9 THE COURT: Sustained.

During the discovery process of the civil lawsuit, Chacon was evaluated by a therapist, and Chacon told the therapist that he would rather get a million dollars from Jackson then work! He was asked by Mesereau if he had filed for disability, and he stated that he “thought” it was just unemployment compensation.

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you have any motive

 

11 today, sir, to get even with Mr. Jackson?

 

12 A. No, sir.

 

13 Q. Do you remember telling a therapist you’d

 

14 rather get a million dollars from Mr. Jackson than

 

15 work?

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. Do you remember being evaluated by a Ph.D.

 

18 named Dr. Scott Gorsuch?

19 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

20 Q. Do you recall being evaluated by a therapist

 

21 in that lawsuit?

 

22 A. Probably at one point, but I don’t recall

 

23 it, sir.

 

24 Q. Who was your lawyer in that case?

 

25 A. Mr. Ring from Santa Barbara.

 

26 Q. Do you remember, in response to being called

 

27 a malinger, you said, “I’d like just a million from

 

28 Mr. Jackson”? 5206

 

1 A. That’s not true, sir.

 

2 Q. Never happened?

 

3 A. No, sir.

 

4 Q. Do you recall making statements you didn’t

 

5 want to work again?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. Okay. After you left Mr. Jackson, you filed

 

8 for disability, didn’t you?

 

9 A. Yes, sir.

 

10 Q. You weren’t disabled, were you?

 

11 A. I think it was just unemployment, wasn’t it?

 

12 Q. Did you file for disability, Mr. Chacon,

 

13 after you left Mr. Jackson’s employment?

 

14 A. It was unemployment, I believe it was.

Mesereau caught Chacon in yet another lie in this excerpt! Earlier, Chacon stated that he didn’t know that his lawyer asked for $16 million dollars in his lawsuit, but Mesereau impeached him with his deposition from that lawsuit, in which not only did he state that he understood that it was $16 million dollars, but he didn’t think that was enough money for him!

15 Q. Okay. You had a deposition taken in that

 

16 case under oath, correct?

 

17 A. Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. And that was not the first time you had ever

 

19 been deposed, correct?

 

20 A. I don’t understand, sir, what you’re saying.

 

21 Q. You had had your deposition taken in

 

22 lawsuits before that one, true?

 

23 A. No, sir. Not that I recall.

 

24 Q. That was the first deposition you’d ever had

 

25 taken that you recall?

 

26 A. In my life?

 

27 Q. Yes.

 

28 A. Yes, sir. 5207

 

1 Q. Okay. Do you remember being asked if you

 

2 were aware that your attorney wanted $16 million for

 

3 you from Mr. Jackson and you said you understood

 

4 that?

 

5 A. No, sir.

 

6 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to show

 

7 you a page from your deposition?

 

8 A. Yes, sir.

 

9 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

10 THE COURT: Yes.

 

11 THE WITNESS: Where does it say 16 million?

 

12 Oh, okay, I see that.

 

13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

14 look at that page of your deposition?

 

15 A. Yes, sir.

 

16 Q. Remember you said you were aware that your

 

17 lawyer had asked for 16 million?

 

18 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to ask that counsel

 

19 be directed to ask whether it refreshes his

 

20 recollection before he reads.

 

21 MR. MESEREAU: I’m sorry. I will withdraw

 

22 the question.

 

23 Q. Have you looked at that deposition?

 

24 A. Yes, sir.

 

25 Q. You were under oath at the time, correct?

 

26 A. Yes, sir.

 

27 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that you

 

28 admitted you knew your lawyer had asked for $16 5208

 

1 million?

 

2 A. No, sir.

 

3 Q. In fact, you said you didn’t think 16

 

4 million was enough, correct?

 

5 A. No, sir.

 

6 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

7 show you your deposition?

 

8 A. Yes, sir.

 

9 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

 

10 THE COURT: Yes.

 

11 THE WITNESS: That’s on there.

 

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

13 look at that page?

 

14 A. Yes, sir.

 

15 Q. Does it refresh your recollection that you

 

16 didn’t think $16 million was enough to you?

 

17 A. No, sir, I don’t.

 

18 Q. You didn’t say that?

 

19 A. No, I mean, I don’t — now I see it’s

 

20 written down there, yes, sir.

 

21 Q. Well, how much did you want in the lawsuit,

 

22 sir?

 

23 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your

 

24 Honor.

 

25 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In that lawsuit, you tried

 

27 to extort Mr. Jackson, didn’t you?

 

28 A. No, sir. 5209

 

1 MR. SNEDDON: Object; argumentative, Your

 

2 Honor.

 

3 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember being

 

5 asked at the beginning of your deposition, “Have you

 

6 ever been deposed before?” And you said, “Yes”?

 

7 A. No, I don’t recall, sir.

 

8 Q. Might it refresh your recollection to see

 

9 that page?

 

10 A. Yes, sir.

 

11 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

12 THE COURT: Yes.

 

13 THE WITNESS: Okay, sir.

 

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

15 look at that?

 

16 A. Yes, sir.

 

17 Q. Does it remind you that you admitted you had

 

18 been deposed before?

 

19 A. I — I don’t remember. But it’s down there,

 

20 yes, sir.

 

21 Q. Well, you’d been in other lawsuits before

 

22 this, hadn’t —

 

23 THE COURT: Counsel, I believe it’s time for

 

24 our break.

 

25 MR. MESEREAU: Oh.

 

26 (Recess taken.)

After the conclusion of the recess, Mesereau continued to destroy Chacon’s credibility by interrogating him about his frivolous lawsuit. Chacon initially didn’t know if Kassim Abdool had joined him in his lawsuit, but then he magically remembered after some prodding by Mesereau. Surprisingly, Judge Melville overruled Sneddon’s argumentative objection when Mesereau asked about Abdool’s involvement with the lawsuit.

This should come as no surprise, based on what you’ve already read so far about Chacon, but during his employment at Neverland his wages were garnished for failure to pay child support! Mesereau introduced this evidence to show that Chacon had a definite financial motive to frivolously sue Jackson for millions of dollars.

1 THE COURT: Counsel?

 

2 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

 

3 Q. Mr. Chacon, you mentioned to the jury

 

4 someone named Kassim Abdool, right?

 

5 A. Yes, sir.

 

6 Q. And was Kassim Abdool someone you worked

 

7 with at Neverland?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. And I believe you told the jury that he was

 

10 the first person you talked to about your claim that

 

11 Mr. Jackson was molesting young men, correct?

 

12 A. I believe so, yes, sir.

 

13 Q. Kassim Abdool joined you in that lawsuit

14 against Mr. Jackson, correct?

 

15 A. Yes, sir.

 

16 Q. Kassim Abdool also had a judgment against

 

17 him in favor of Mr. Jackson for $1,473,117.61,

 

18 correct?

 

19 A. I believe so, sir, yes.

 

20 Q. Kassim Abdool joined you in trying to get

 

21 millions from Mr. Jackson, right?

 

22 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your

 

23 Honor.

 

24 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

25 You may answer.

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Is that correct?

 

27 A. No, sir. No, sir.

 

28 Q. Oh, he didn’t? 5216

 

1 A. No, sir.

 

2 Q. He wasn’t a plaintiff with you in that case?

 

3 A. Oh, he was, yes, sir.

 

4 Q. You’re saying that Mr. Abdool was not

 

5 looking for millions like you?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. How much did he want, Mr. Chacon?

 

8 A. There wasn’t an amount, sir.

 

9 Q. After a six-month trial, your lawyer didn’t

 

10 ask the jury to award an amount for you, sir?

 

11 A. You’ll have to ask Mr. Ring.

 

12 Q. You were sitting there, weren’t you?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. Did you hear him give a closing argument to

 

15 the jury?

 

16 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

17 object; argumentative.

 

18 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling this jury

 

20 today, under oath, you don’t know how much your

 

21 lawyer asked for in that six-month trial?

 

22 A. I saw it earlier when you showed —

 

23 MR. SNEDDON: Excuse me. I’m going to

 

24 object as argumentative and immaterial.

 

25 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: There was also someone

 

27 named Adrian McManus who joined you in suing Mr.

 

28 Jackson, correct? 5217

 

1 A. Yes, sir.

 

2 Q. And Adrian McManus had worked at Neverland,

 

3 right?

 

4 A. That’s correct, sir.

 

5 Q. And like you and Mr. Abdool, she lost the

 

6 case, correct?

 

7 A. Yes, sir.

 

8 Q. A Santa Maria jury ruled against her as

 

9 well, right?

 

10 A. That’s correct.

 

11 Q. Now, Adrian McManus was also found to have

 

12 stolen property from Mr. Jackson, true?

 

13 A. No, sir.

 

14 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

15 you the judgment?

 

16 A. Yes, sir.

 

17 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

18 object as immaterial with regard to this witness’s

 

19 testimony; beyond his knowledge; no foundation.

 

20 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When did you last talk to

 

22 Adrian McManus?

 

23 A. Probably months; months ago.

 

24 Q. Did you talk about this case at all?

 

25 A. Only if I knew when I was coming down, and

 

26 how she was doing.

 

27 Q. Is that all you discussed about this case?

 

28 A. Yes, sir. 5218

 

1 Q. How long was the conversation?

 

2 A. Oh, couldn’t have lasted more than five

 

3 minutes, because she was at work.

 

4 Q. When did you last talk to Kassim Abdool?

 

5 A. I have not, sir, at all.

 

6 Q. Not at all?

 

7 A. No.

 

8 Q. Okay. When’s the last time you talked to

 

9 him?

 

10 A. Probably the time when we left court here.

 

11 Back then.

 

12 Q. Okay. All right. Now, when you sued Mr.

 

13 Jackson, you had judgments against you in other

 

14 cases, true?

 

15 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

16 object as immaterial.

 

17 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you sued Mr. Jackson,

 

19 the wages you were getting from Mr. Jackson were

 

20 being partially garnished, correct?

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

22 object. Same objection.

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: Financial motive, Your Honor.

 

24 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.

 

25 You may answer.

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Correct?

 

27 A. Yes, sir.

 

28 Q. They were being garnished because you 5219

 

1 wouldn’t pay child support, true?

 

2 A. I was paying child support, sir.

 

3 Q. Then why were they garnished?

 

4 A. I assume that’s the procedure they do when

 

5 they want child support from you.

 

6 Q. You couldn’t just send a check yourself?

 

7 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that —

 

8 THE COURT: Sustained; calls for a legal

 

9 conclusion.

Chacon was so pathetic that he had to ask Det. Birchim for money, although he could not “remember” doing so. Mesereau also attempted to ask Chacon about a lawsuit he filed against a company called Commercial Trade, and a judgment against him for a few thousand dollars from another judge in order to establish Chacon’s financial motive, but Judge Melville sustained Sneddon’s objections. 

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: At one point, you asked a

 

11 Santa Barbara sheriff for money, true?

 

12 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

13 Q. Do you recall ever asking Mr. Birchim for

 

14 some money?

 

15 A. No, sir.

 

16 Q. Are you saying it never happened?

 

17 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

18 Q. Okay. When did you last talk to Russ

 

19 Birchim?

 

20 A. This morning.

 

21 Q. Where did you talk to him?

 

22 A. Here at the courthouse.

 

23 Q. Did you talk about your testimony?

 

24 A. No, sir.

 

25 Q. Okay. So you’re not denying that you asked

 

26 him for money and you’re not denying he gave it to

 

27 you; you just don’t remember, right?

 

28 A. I don’t recall, sir. 5220

 

1 Q. When did you first meet Russ Birchim?

 

2 A. I believe it was back in ‘93, I believe.

 

3 I’m not sure.

 

4 Q. Ever hear of a company called Commercial

 

5 Trade?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. You didn’t have a lawsuit with Commercial

 

8 Trade in 1989?

 

9 MR. SNEDDON: Object as immaterial.

 

10 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know someone named

 

12 Judge Byrd?

 

13 A. No, sir.

 

14 Q. Judge Byrd had a judgment against you for a

 

15 couple thousand dollars, didn’t she?

 

16 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

17 object to this and ask the Court to admonish

 

18 counsel.

 

19 THE COURT: The —

 

20 MR. MESEREAU: It’s all part of the

 

21 financial motive, Your Honor.

 

22 THE COURT: There’s no time frame. The

 

23 problem you’re asking about is when. I don’t know

 

24 that. So I’ll sustain the objection on vagueness.

Once Mesereau was able to establish the foundation, he asked Chacon about the $2,600 dollar judgment against him by Judge Byrd, and he denied knowing anything about it. Typical.

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: At the time you sued Mr.

 

26 Jackson for an amount you don’t remember, isn’t it

 

27 true you had a judgment against you for $2600 by a

 

28 Ms. Judge Byrd? 5221

 

1 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

2 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

3 you your deposition where you talked about it?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

6 THE COURT: Yes.

 

7 THE WITNESS: Oh, yes, sir.

 

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

9 look at that deposition page?

 

10 A. Yes, sir.

 

11 Q. Did it refresh your recollection?

 

12 A. Yes, sir.

 

13 Q. Do you know who Judge Byrd is?

 

14 A. No, sir.

 

15 Q. Okay. Do you know anything about a judgment

 

16 she ever had against you?

 

17 A. No, sir.

Next, Chacon stated that, only after Mesereau presented him a copy of his transcript of his deposition, he did remember asking Det. Birchim for money so that he and his wife could relocate! Earlier in his testimony he couldn’t recall.

18 Q. Okay. Now, when did you first tell Kassim

 

19 Abdool, your co-plaintiff against Mr. Jackson, about

 

20 this alleged molestation you witnessed?

 

21 A. Probably when — when we — when we knew

 

22 that we were going to be subpoenaed to the grand

 

23 jury.

 

24 Q. And approximately when was that?

 

25 A. I believe it was in ‘94 sometime.

 

26 Q. By the way, do you remember testifying that

 

27 Sheriff Russ Birchim delivered money to you?

 

28 A. I don’t recall, sir. 5222

 

1 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

2 you your deposition?

 

3 A. Yes, sir.

 

4 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

5 THE COURT: Yes.

 

6 THE WITNESS: It’s down there, but I don’t

 

7 recall that, sir, at all.

 

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Do you recall

 

9 saying it?

 

10 A. No, sir, I don’t.

 

11 Q. Don’t recall anything about it?

 

12 A. No, sir.

 

13 Q. Okay. It just is down there, right?

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to the

 

15 comment as argumentative.

 

16 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember testifying

 

18 under oath you asked Mr. Birchim for money?

 

19 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

20 MR. SNEDDON: That’s been asked and

 

21 answered.

 

22 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember asking for

 

24 money so your wife could relocate?

 

25 A. Probably — probably so, sir. Yes, sir.

 

26 Q. Okay. Do you remember wanting other bills

 

27 paid?

 

28 A. No, sir. 5223

Next, Chacon claimed that he didn’t know that certain Neverland employees had sold their stories to tabloids, but he admitted the he, Adrian McManus, and Kassim Abdool each sold stories to The Sun tabloid at the advice of their attorney Michael Ring, in order to help pay their legal fees. This is direct contradiction to his earlier direct testimony where he stated that he didn’t talk to anyone about what he saw except for Kassim Abdool:

1 Q. Okay. How long after you told Kassim

 

2 Abdool, your co-plaintiff, about these alleged acts

 

3 of molestation did you speak to anyone from law

 

4 enforcement?

 

5 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

6 Q. Was it years?

 

7 A. Oh, no. No, not years.

 

8 Q. How long was it?

 

9 A. Could have been weeks, days. I’m not

 

10 certain, sir. It’s been a while.

 

11 Q. Did you review any documents to get ready to

 

12 testify today?

 

13 A. No, sir.

 

14 Q. Anyone send you any documents to look at —

 

15 A. No.

 

16 Q. — before you testified today?

 

17 A. No, sir.

 

18 Q. When did you last talk to Mr. Ring about

 

19 your suit against Mr. Jackson?

 

20 A. I haven’t talked to Mr. Ring in years, sir.

 

21 Q. Okay. All right. Now, at the time you

 

22 filed your lawsuit against Mr. Jackson, you knew

 

23 that other former employees at Neverland had sold

 

24 stories to tabloids about Mr. Jackson, didn’t you?

 

25 A. Could you rephrase that, sir?

 

26 Q. Sure. At the time you filed your lawsuit

 

27 against Mr. Jackson, you were aware that other

 

28 former employees at Neverland had sold stories to 5224

 

1 tabloids, correct?

 

2 A. I don’t understand the “others,” sir. Which

 

3 others?

 

4 Q. Blanca Francia?

 

5 A. No, sir.

 

6 Q. Never heard of it?

 

7 A. Oh, yes, I heard of it. But I didn’t — I

 

8 wasn’t aware of that.

 

9 Q. Were you aware of anyone else at Neverland

 

10 who was employed at one point trying to go to a

 

11 tabloid to sell a story?

 

12 A. No, sir.

 

13 Q. Never heard anything about it?

 

14 A. No, sir.

 

15 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear anything about

 

16 Adrian McManus doing that?

 

17 A. Well, we went to a tabloid.

 

18 Q. Which one?

 

19 A. It was The Star.

 

20 Q. And who was “we”?

 

21 A. It was myself, Adrian McManus, Kassim

 

22 Abdool, and I guess that was it.

 

23 Q. And approximately when did you go to this

 

24 tabloid?

 

25 A. We had met at Mr. Ring’s office in Santa

 

26 Barbara.

 

27 Q. And after you met with your attorney, who

 

28 represented you in the lawsuit, you went to a 5225

 

1 tabloid, correct?

 

2 A. Right. Yes, sir.

 

3 Q. And you wanted money for a story, true?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 Q. Who did you meet with at the tabloid when

 

6 you requested money?

 

7 A. Can you rephrase that, sir?

 

8 Q. Yes, sir. Who did you meet with when you

 

9 went to a tabloid to request money?

 

10 A. Oh, there was myself, Kassim, Adrian, and

 

11 whoever the reporter was, and Mr. Ring.

 

12 Q. Your lawyer was there with you, right?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. You did it with your lawyer because you

 

15 thought that negative publicity would pressure Mr.

 

16 Jackson into paying all of you money, right?

 

17 A. No.

 

18 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your

 

19 Honor.

 

20 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was, “No.”

 

21 Next question.

 

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You went to the tabloid

 

23 before the case was tried to a jury, right?

 

24 A. I believe so, yes, sir.

 

25 Q. Had you filed a case before you went to the

 

26 tabloid?

 

27 A. I don’t recall, but I believe so, sir.

 

28 Q. Did you sell a story to the tabloid? 5226

 

1 A. Yes, sir.

 

2 Q. Did you ever hire a broker to help you sell

 

3 other stories to other tabloids?

 

4 A. No, sir.

 

5 Q. Did you ever hear anything about McManus

 

6 doing that?

 

7 A. No, sir.

 

8 Q. Okay. What other tabloids did you speak to?

 

9 A. None, sir.

 

10 Q. Just one?

 

11 A. Yes, sir.

 

12 Q. Just Star?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. But you were aware that McManus went to

 

15 other tabloids, true?

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. Just Star?

 

18 A. Yes, sir.

 

19 Q. Did you ever speak to anyone at Inside

 

20 Edition?

 

21 A. No, sir.

 

22 Q. Okay. How about any other newspaper?

 

23 A. No, sir.

 

24 Q. Now, you wanted to sell information about

 

25 Mr. Jackson allegedly acting wrongfully with young

 

26 men, correct?

 

27 A. Yes, sir. To The Star.

 

28 Q. And you also wanted to sell information 5227

 

1 about his relationship with Lisa Marie Presley,

 

2 correct?

 

3 A. No, sir.

 

4 Q. Never did that?

 

5 A. No, sir.

 

6 Q. Ever hear of any of your co-plaintiffs doing

 

7 that?

 

8 A. That I recall, I don’t recall, sir.

 

9 Q. Don’t recall it at all?

 

10 A. No, sir.

 

11 Q. Okay. Was your story printed, to your

 

12 knowledge?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. Approximately when did that happen?

 

15 A. I don’t know the date, sir.

 

16 Q. Any idea at all?

 

17 A. No, sir.

 

18 Q. Okay. Can’t even estimate, right?

 

19 A. No, sir.

 

20 Q. Okay. All right. How long after you told

 

21 your co-plaintiff against Mr. Jackson, Mr. Kassim

 

22 Abdool, about these alleged acts of molestation did

 

23 you both go to a tabloid?

 

24 A. Oh, I — it wasn’t — it wasn’t right away.

 

25 But I don’t recall when it was.

 

26 Q. Okay. It was before you went to law

 

27 enforcement, wasn’t it?

 

28 A. No, sir. 5228

 

1 Q. Was it after it?

 

2 A. I believe so, sir. I don’t recall.

 

3 Q. Okay. Mr. Chacon, in late ‘93 and early

 

4 ‘94, you told other people that Michael Jackson was

 

5 innocent of molestation accusations, didn’t you?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. Never told that to anyone at the ranch?

 

8 A. No, sir.

 

9 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a tabloid

 

10 called Splash?

 

11 A. Yes, sir.

 

12 Q. What is Splash?

 

13 A. I believe it’s a tabloid.

 

14 Q. Ever met with someone named Peter Burt from

 

15 Splash?

 

16 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

17 Q. Are you saying you don’t recall, or you

 

18 don’t — you didn’t?

 

19 A. I don’t remember, sir, if I did or not.

 

20 Q. So you could have, but you don’t remember?

 

21 A. Could have, but I don’t remember.

 

22 Q. Okay. Do you know somebody named Sandy

 

23 Domz?

 

24 A. Yes, sir.

 

25 Q. Who was Sandy Domz?

 

26 A. She was one of the secretaries at Neverland

 

27 Ranch.

 

28 Q. Okay. Do you recall Sandy Domz ever 5229

 

1 approaching a tabloid?

 

2 A. No, sir.

 

3 Q. Don’t know anything about it?

 

4 A. No, sir.

 

5 Q. All right. Do you recall speaking to a book

 

6 author named Gutierrez?

 

7 A. Yes, sir.

 

8 Q. And approximately when did you speak to a

 

9 book author named Gutierrez?

 

10 A. I believe that was before we went to Star,

 

11 and — but I don’t remember the — I don’t remember

 

12 the date or the time.

 

13 Q. Okay. Do you remember splitting money from

 

14 any tabloids with any other employees or former

 

15 employees of Neverland?

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. You never split money for giving information

 

18 to a T.V. show called Inside Edition?

 

19 A. That I recall, no, sir.

 

20 Q. So you’re not telling the jury you didn’t do

 

21 it, you’re just saying, “I don’t recall”?

 

22 A. Well, I don’t — I don’t think I did it or

 

23 we did it, no, sir.

 

24 Q. You don’t know for sure?

 

25 A. I just don’t recall if we did or not, sir.

 

26 Q. You might have, but you don’t remember,

 

27 right?

 

28 A. I don’t remember. 5230

Chacon and the rest of his goons told incredible lies to Jackson nemesis Victor Gutierrez, and he used these lies in his trashy book “Michael Jackson Was My Lover”. Read this post for a more detailed analysis of Gutierrez’s relationship with the Neverland Five, and read this series of posts for a rebuttal to his book. You can also read this post to see a collection of intimate photographs of Jackson, Jordan Chandler, and many other players from the 1993 case that were included in Gutierrez’s book.

In this excerpt, Mesereau questioned Chacon about some of the other Neverland employees that were also sued by the Neverland Five for “wrongfully interfering with their employment”:

1 Q. Did you ever complain at Neverland that you

 

2 should be paid more money than you were getting?

 

3 A. No, sir.

 

4 Q. Do you remember filing a claim for

 

5 disability with EDD after you left Neverland?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. Okay. Are you saying that didn’t happen?

 

8 A. Well, I filed for unemployment.

 

9 Q. Not disability?

 

10 A. No, sir.

 

11 Q. All right. When is the last time you worked

 

12 at Neverland; do you know?

 

13 A. It’s probably mid ‘94, I believe, or around

 

14 there.

 

15 Q. Now, when you sued Mr. Jackson in Santa

 

16 Maria, you also sued other people at Neverland,

 

17 right?

 

18 A. No, sir.

 

19 Q. You sued James Van Norman, didn’t you?

 

20 A. Oh, yes, sir.

 

21 Q. You sued Tony Coleman?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. You sued Marcus Johnson, correct?

 

24 A. Yes, sir.

 

25 Q. And you sued Bill Bray, right?

 

26 A. Yes, sir.

 

27 Q. And Betty Bailey, right?

 

28 A. Yes, sir. 5231

 

1 Q. And Andrew Merritt, right?

 

2 A. I believe so, yes, sir.

 

3 Q. And you were claiming that they had

 

4 wrongfully interfered with your employment, correct?

 

5 A. Yes, sir, they did.

 

6 Q. And are these some of the people that you

 

7 described as being bodyguards for Mr. Jackson?

 

8 A. Yes, sir, the OSS.

 

9 Q. Yes.

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. You didn’t like the OSS being at Neverland,

 

12 did you?

 

13 A. No, sir.

 

14 Q. You wanted to handle all of the security

 

15 yourself, correct?

 

16 A. Well, there was a time that I was in charge,

 

17 and I knew what I was doing, sir.

 

18 Q. And you felt they didn’t, right?

 

19 A. Well, they shouldn’t have interfered with my

 

20 job.

 

21 Q. Okay. And obviously you lost that claim in

 

22 front of a Santa Maria jury, correct?

 

23 A. Yes.

 

24 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your

 

25 Honor.

 

26 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The claims against the

 

28 people in addition to Mr. Jackson who had worked at 5232

 

1 Neverland, you lost those claims, right?

 

2 A. Yes, sir.

 

3 Q. Now, at the time you sued Mr. Jackson, you

 

4 had complained that you couldn’t pay your rent,

 

5 right?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. Did you ever complain to anyone you couldn’t

 

8 pay your rent?

 

9 A. No, sir.

 

10 Q. Never complained to any sheriff, right?

 

11 A. I don’t recall. I don’t think so, sir.

 

12 Q. Okay. But you don’t know for sure?

 

13 A. No, sir.

Next, Chacon was questioned about the items that he stole from Neverland, which he was ordered to pay $25,000 for by the judge. He claimed he only stole candy bars, but of course we all find that hard to believe……

14 Q. All right. All right. Now, when Mr.

 

15 Jackson sued you for stealing his property, do you

 

16 recall what property he was accusing you of stealing

 

17 from him?

 

18 A. Yes, sir.

 

19 Q. What was the property?

 

20 A. It was candy bars from the theater. And the

 

21 other stuff I’m not sure of, but I believe they were

 

22 referring to my briefcase that had memos, my

 

23 personal memos from my box at the security office.

 

24 Q. Anything else?

 

25 A. No, sir.

 

26 Q. Now, the jury found that the material you

 

27 stole was worth $25,000, correct?

 

28 A. No, sir. 5233

 

1 Q. Well, they entered a judgment against you

 

2 for $25,000 for maliciously converting Mr. Jackson’s

 

3 property, true?

 

4 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

5 object to this.

 

6 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know what the

 

8 amount was, Mr. Chacon?

 

9 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object. It’s the

 

10 same question, just asked a different way.

 

11 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You were found to have

 

13 stolen documents from Mr. Jackson, true?

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

15 object; asked and answered.

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: I don’t think it is.

 

17 THE COURT: That question hasn’t been asked,

 

18 but the ruling that I made is that the issues that

 

19 you can go into are not the issues of the lawsuit.

 

20 It’s the same as the J.C. Penney case. You can go

 

21 into what he said, what he hasn’t said, the same

 

22 exact ruling, and you’re —

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

 

24 THE COURT: The area you’re in now has to do

 

25 with the issues in the lawsuit. So I want you —

 

26 that’s the line we’re trying to walk here.

 

27 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I’ll move on, Your

 

28 Honor. 5234

Mesereau next pivoted to the subject of Chacon’s statements to his landlord Linda Allen, who he told he would be doing an interview with Hard Copy, and that he would buy a new Mercedes-Benz luxury car with the millions of dollars that he would get from Jackson. As expected, Chacon denied all of it!

1 Q. Do you know someone named Linda Allen, Mr.

 

2 Chacon?

 

3 A. Yes, sir.

 

4 Q. Who is Linda Allen?

 

5 A. She was my landlady in Lompoc.

 

6 Q. For how long?

 

7 A. Probably about a year. I’m not for certain

 

8 of the length of time.

 

9 Q. When you were suing Mr. Jackson, you told

 

10 Linda Allen you would soon be able to pay her the

 

11 back rent you owed, right?

 

12 A. No, sir.

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that

 

14 question. The same 403 ruling.

 

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you do that, Mr.

 

17 Chacon?

 

18 A. No, sir.

 

19 Q. Did you ever tell Linda Allen, “I’m going to

 

20 be a star witness against Michael Jackson”?

 

21 A. No, sir.

22 Q. Okay. Ever tell Linda Allen you were going

 

23 to be on the T.V. show Hard Copy to talk about Mr.

 

24 Jackson?

 

25 A. No, sir.

 

26 Q. Did you ever tell Linda Allen you had a gun

 

27 permit because you were a star witness against

 

28 Michael Jackson? 5235

 

1 A. No, sir.

 

2 Q. Ever tell Ms. Allen you were going to make

 

3 two or three million dollars with your suit against

 

4 Mr. Jackson?

 

5 A. No, sir.

 

6 Q. Ever will tell Linda Allen you were going to

 

7 be driving a 450 Mercedes after you won your suit

 

8 against Mr. Jackson?

 

9 A. No, sir.

 

10 Q. All right. None of that rings a bell,

 

11 right?

 

12 A. No. No.

Chacon was then questioned about the stories that he sold to the Splash tabloid, and when he couldn’t “remember” the circumstances of how his desire to sell those stories originated, Mesereau wisely reminded him that he remembered the alleged abuse that he claimed to witness, in spite of the long passage of time, and since he couldn’t remember the circumstances under which he sold the story, then how could his memory of the actual abuse be considered credible? His tabloid stories were based on the abuse that he allegedly witnessed!

13 Q. Okay. Now, in your meeting with the first

 

14 tabloid that you talked to, okay, where Abdool was

 

15 present, who else was there?

 

16 A. I believe Adrian McManus, Abdool, myself,

 

17 Mr. Ring, and whoever represented that tabloid. I

 

18 don’t know, sir.

 

19 Q. Who arranged the meeting?

 

20 A. Mr. Ring.

 

21 Q. Okay. Do you know someone named Gary

 

22 Morgan?

 

23 A. I’ve heard the name before, yes, sir.

 

24 Q. Where have you heard the name?

 

25 A. Probably — maybe he’s the one that

 

26 represented the tabloid. I’m not sure.

 

27 Q. Okay. Did you ever talk to Gary Morgan?

 

28 A. I probably did, but I don’t recall. 5236

 

1 Q. Okay. Do you recall ever being interviewed

 

2 by someone who claimed to be a media broker, meaning

 

3 they could actually get you to various tabloids on

 

4 T.V. or in print?

 

5 A. No, sir.

 

6 Q. Never heard of anything about that, right?

 

7 A. No, sir.

 

8 Q. Did you draft a story for the tabloids at

 

9 Mr. Ring’s office?

 

10 A. Probably, yes, sir. Probably did. I

 

11 don’t — I don’t recall, but I probably did.

 

12 Q. Why do you say you probably did?

 

13 A. Because it’s kind of vague. It’s been a

 

14 long time, and I guess I did. I’m — I would say I

 

15 did, yes, sir.

 

16 Q. Well, it hasn’t been much longer than the

 

17 period of time you claim you remember these events

 

18 about Mr. Jackson, true?

 

19 A. Well, I probably did, sir, draft that —

 

20 Q. Probably did, or you did?

 

21 A. I did.

 

22 MR. SNEDDON: It’s argumentative.

 

23 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was he

 

24 did. Next question.

 

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. And did you draft a

 

26 story for Splash?

 

27 A. I believe that was the tabloid, sir.

 

28 Q. Okay. And after you drafted it, did you 5237

 

1 meet with somebody from Splash?

 

2 A. Whoever it was. I don’t recall, sir.

 

3 Q. Were you personally interviewed by somebody

 

4 from Splash?

 

5 A. We all were, sir.

 

6 Q. Jointly or individually?

 

7 A. Jointly.

 

8 Q. Okay. How long was the interview with

 

9 Splash?

 

10 A. Could have been an hour or so. I’m not for

 

11 certain how long.

 

12 Q. Do you recall telling anyone that you were

 

13 using the money from Splash to help fund your

 

14 lawsuit against Michael Jackson?

 

15 A. Yes, the money went directly to Mr. Ring.

 

16 Q. And that was approximately $17,000, wasn’t

 

17 it?

 

18 A. I don’t know, sir. But whatever it was, he

 

19 did get it.

 

20 Q. So can you estimate what it was?

 

21 A. I can’t, sir.

 

22 Q. Okay. Did you get any money yourself as —

 

23 A. No, sir.

 

24 Q. Do you remember telling people you gave most

 

25 of it to Mr. Ring, but you took about 500 bucks

 

26 yourself?

 

27 A. Well, we had taken 500 bucks, but we gave it

 

28 back to Mr. Ring, because he was our lawyer and he 5238

 

1 needed money.

 

2 Q. Okay. That was to fund the lawsuit where

 

3 you sought millions from Michael Jackson, correct?

 

4 A. Well, that was the lawsuit, sir.

 

5 Q. That was the lawsuit you were trying to fund

 

6 by selling stories to tabloids, true?

 

7 A. No, sir.

 

8 Q. No?

 

9 A. I really don’t understand your question.

 

10 Q. Sure, I’ll rephrase.

 

11 You were taking money from tabloids and

 

12 using it to fund costs of your lawsuit against Mr.

 

13 Jackson?

 

14 A. Oh. Yes, sir. I’m sorry.

Here’s a very important excerpt: Mesereau asked Chacon if it was true that he had denied ever seeing Jackson abuse anyone, and Chacon said it was not true, and when he was asked if someone were to testify that Chacon was lying, would that person be lying, and Chacon answered “yes”. So it’s obvious that Mesereau has someone up his sleeve that will later testify against Chacon, but we’ll have to wait and see who it is! (Hint, hint!)

15 Q. And before you went to Mr. Ring, you had

 

16 told various people that you never saw anything

 

17 inappropriate at Neverland, true?

 

18 A. No, sir.

 

19 Q. You told various people you’d never seen

 

20 Michael Jackson molest anybody, true?

 

21 A. No, sir.

 

22 Q. So if anybody comes into court and says

 

23 that, they’re just not telling the truth, right?

 

24 A. That’s correct, sir.

 

25 Q. Okay.

Here is some additional bombshell testimony: Chacon testified that his story had changed throughout the years, and that he had “remembered” some details (along with Kassim Abdool) about Jackson’s abuse that had been “forgotten” in 1993! Unbelievable! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is one of Sneddon’s star witnesses against Jackson!

25 Q. Okay. When you first met with

 

26 representatives of the sheriff’s department, did you

 

27 tell them everything that you have said today about

 

28 Mr. Jackson allegedly molesting young men? 5239

 

1 A. Um, when you mean a sheriff, a certain

 

2 sheriff, or at the sheriff’s department, or — I

 

3 don’t understand.

 

4 Q. Let me rephrase.

 

5 When you first spoke to a sheriff from Santa

 

6 Barbara, did you tell that sheriff everything you’ve

 

7 said today in court?

 

8 A. No, sir.

 

9 Q. The story has changed considerably since

 

10 your first meeting with a sheriff, true?

 

11 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

12 object to the use of the word “considerably” as

13 argumentative.

 

14 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would you agree that with

 

16 each interview you do, you add more lurid facts

 

17 about Mr. Jackson?

 

18 A. No, sir.

 

19 Q. You would agree your story about what you

 

20 claim he did has changed through the years, has it

 

21 not?

 

22 A. No, sir.

 

23 Q. Didn’t you just meet with Mr. Sneddon the

 

24 other day?

 

25 A. Yes, sir.

 

26 Q. Didn’t you tell Mr. Sneddon you had new

 

27 facts that you forgot in 1993?

 

28 MR. SNEDDON: Well, wait a minute. I’m 5240

 

1 going to object to that question. Your Honor,

 

2 that’s not asked in good faith with regard to the —

 

3 I can’t do it without a speaking objection, but if

 

4 we could approach the bench, because this is not

 

5 right.

 

6 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

7 The question was, “Did you tell Mr. Sneddon

 

8 you had new facts that you had forgot in 1993?”

 

9 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.

 

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You told Mr. Sneddon that

 

11 you forgot to say certain things in 1993 about Mr.

 

12 Jackson allegedly molesting young men, true?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. But now you remembered them in 2005, right?

 

15 A. Vaguely, yes, sir.

 

16 Q. And you said the person that remembered them

 

17 with you is Kassim Abdool, true?

 

18 A. I haven’t talked to Kassim in years.

 

19 Q. Okay. When did you first start work at

 

20 Neverland, Mr. Chacon?

 

21 A. I believe it was in ‘91, sir.

 

22 Q. Okay. You knew that in late ‘93 and early

 

23 ‘94, the media was devoting a lot of attention to

 

24 stories about Mr. Jackson at Neverland, correct?

 

25 A. Well, the media was always at Neverland at

 

26 some time or other, sir.

 

27 Q. Before you chose to go to a tabloid, you

 

28 knew that others were going to tabloids to try and 5241

 

1 tell stories about Mr. Jackson?

 

2 A. No, sir.

 

3 Q. You were the first, right?

 

4 A. That went to the media, to the tabloids?

 

5 Q. Yes.

 

6 A. Yes, sir.

 

7 Q. And when did you go?

 

8 A. It was probably ‘94 sometime.

 

9 Q. But you knew there was a lot of media

 

10 attention before that, correct?

 

11 A. There always has been, sir.

 

12 Q. And you knew people were making money doing

 

13 that, right?

 

14 A. No, sir.

 

15 Q. Weren’t aware of that?

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. Thought they were doing it all for free,

 

18 right, Mr. Chacon?

 

19 A. No, sir.

 

20 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your

 

21 Honor.

 

22 THE COURT: Sustained.

As further proof of how frivolous Chacon’s lawsuit was, during his deposition he testified that he was entitled to money because he was stared at “all the time” by Jackson!  (That quote reminds me of Jackson’s “all the tiiiiiiimmmmmmme” ad libs at the end of “Liberian Girl”.) When asked why he said it (after seeing the transcript of his deposition, of course!), he said it’s because he just wanted to say it!

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you think Mr. Jackson

 

24 is an intimidating-looking individual?

 

25 A. No, sir.

 

26 Q. Do you remember in your deposition you said

 

27 you were entitled to damages because Mr. Jackson

 

28 stared at you? 5242

 

1 A. No, sir.

 

2 Q. Remember you said Mr. Jackson stared, and

 

3 you didn’t know how to take it?

 

4 A. No, sir.

 

5 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

6 you your deposition?

 

7 A. Yes, sir.

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

9 THE COURT: Yes.

 

10 THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay. I remember.

 

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: As part of your damage

 

12 claim, do you remember saying that Mr. Jackson

 

13 stared at you continuously?

 

14 A. Not continuously, sir.

 

15 Q. Well, you said “all the time,” right?

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. You said no one else saw him staring at you,

 

18 right?

 

19 A. No, sir.

 

20 Q. But it bothered you, right?

 

21 A. No, sir.

 

22 Q. Okay. Why did you say it?

 

23 A. I guess just to say it.

Here are some more general questions about Chacon’s employment at Neverland. For example, he was asked about the “no guns” policy at Neverland, which he claimed he never inquired about, and he was asked about the intruders that he apprehended as they trespassed on Neverland. According to Chacon, Jackson “didn’t care” that there were intruders who were caught at Neverland, but obviously isn’t true because he installed the alarms outside of his bedroom suite as a result of intruders!

24 Q. Okay. As part of your damage claim, you

 

25 claimed that employees were threatening you at

 

26 Neverland, right?

 

27 A. Yes, they were, sir.

 

28 Q. All right. And the jury didn’t believe 5243

 

1 that, did they?

 

2 MR. SNEDDON: I’ll object as argumentative.

 

3 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When did you start working

 

5 the graveyard shift at Neverland?

 

6 A. Immediately, sir, when I got hired on.

 

7 Q. Didn’t you gradually work your way into

 

8 that?

 

9 A. Immediately I went to the graveyard. Then

 

10 they shifted me to swings for a while, probably a

 

11 month or so, and then I ended back on graveyard. As

 

12 a matter of fact, I preferred to work graveyard,

 

13 sir, because I had a second job.

 

14 Q. Where was the second job?

 

15 A. In Lompoc.

 

16 Q. What was that?

 

17 A. I worked for Wayne’s Tires.

 

18 Q. Do you remember problems with intruders

 

19 while you worked at Neverland?

 

20 A. Yes, sir.

 

21 Q. And what problems with intruders do you

 

22 remember?

 

23 A. Them coming on property and — and we turned

 

24 them over to the sheriff’s department.

 

25 Q. And how often do you remember that

 

26 happening?

 

27 A. Probably several times, sir.

 

28 Q. Do you recall Mr. Jackson getting nervous 5244

 

1 about that?

 

2 A. No, sir.

 

3 Q. Did he seem to care about it, to you?

 

4 A. He wasn’t even there when we apprehended the

 

5 people.

 

6 Q. He certainly learned about it, to your

7 knowledge, correct?

 

8 A. I don’t know, sir.

 

9 Q. You never talked to him about it?

 

10 A. No, sir.

 

11 Q. And you were not aware of anyone else

 

12 telling Mr. Jackson about these problems with

 

13 intruders?

 

14 A. No, sir.

 

15 Q. All right. Sir, Mr. Jackson had some

 

16 personal security guards because he was worried

 

17 about these intruders being caught on the property,

 

18 right?

 

19 A. I don’t believe so, sir.

 

20 Q. You and the other security people didn’t

 

21 carry any weapons, right?

 

22 A. No, sir, we didn’t.

 

23 Q. And at times, that was a concern of Mr.

 

24 Jackson’s, wasn’t it, that his security personnel

 

25 there didn’t have any weapon to protect him?

 

26 A. I don’t know, sir.

 

27 Q. He had a general policy of not wanting

 

28 people to carry weapons, true? 5245

 

1 A. I don’t know, sir.

 

2 Q. You don’t know at all?

 

3 A. No, sir.

 

4 Q. Did you ever see any of your security team

 

5 carrying a weapon?

 

6 A. No, sir.

 

7 Q. Did you know why?

 

8 A. No, sir.

 

9 Q. Had no idea at all?

 

10 A. No, sir.

 

11 Q. Never inquired?

 

12 A. No, sir.

 

13 Q. When you first joined up, did you ask

 

14 anybody, “Do security people carry weapons at

 

15 Neverland?”

 

16 A. No, sir.

 

17 Q. Were you given any manual to refer to when

 

18 you worked at Neverland?

 

19 A. Yes, sir.

 

20 Q. And what do you know about that manual?

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object; vague.

 

22 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: It’s vague, I’ll rephrase.

 

24 Q. Are you telling the jury that when you

 

25 started working security at Neverland, nobody told

 

26 you, “We have a general policy of having security

 

27 people not carry arms”?

 

28 A. Well, probably so, because nobody was 5246

 

1 carrying arms.

 

2 Q. Did you have a gun permit at the time?

 

3 A. No, sir.

Here’s another convenient memory lapse from Chacon! When asked by Mesereau if he spoke to police before or after he saw the alleged abuse at Neverland, he said he didn’t know!

4 Q. How many meetings did you have with

 

5 representatives of the sheriff’s department before

 

6 you think you told all the facts about what you say

 

7 Mr. Jackson did with young men?

 

8 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

9 object as argumentative; assumes facts.

 

10 THE COURT: Calls for a narrative. You can

 

11 break that question down.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.

 

13 Q. When was your first meeting with any

 

14 representative of the sheriff’s department regarding

 

15 what you claim you saw at Neverland?

 

16 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

17 Q. Do you know approximately when it was?

 

18 A. No, sir, I don’t.

 

19 Q. Was it after you saw the events you

 

20 described today?

 

21 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

22 Q. Well, you’ve given the jury a detailed

 

23 description of the events you claim you saw at

 

24 Neverland, right?

 

25 A. Yes, sir.

 

26 Q. But you’ve forgotten when you talked to the

 

27 sheriffs, correct?

 

28 A. Well, I know I talked to them, but I just 5247

 

1 don’t recall exactly when it was at, sir.

 

2 Q. Do you know approximately when it was at?

 

3 A. It was in ‘94, I believe, sometime.

 

4 Q. Do you know how many meetings you’ve had

 

5 with the sheriffs to date where you have talked

 

6 about Mr. Jackson’s inappropriate behavior?

 

7 A. Well, with the sheriffs, I didn’t talk about

 

8 this, the allegations. But with the grand jury,

 

9 which I went to testify, that was the first time,

 

10 and there was sheriffs present there.

 

11 Q. You testified before a Santa Barbara Grand

 

12 Jury, right?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. And after you testified, no criminal charges

 

15 were brought, right?

 

16 A. Right, sir.

 

17 Q. You went to Los Angeles and talked to

 

18 prosecutors —

 

19 A. No, sir.

 

20 Q. — about what you claim — you never did

 

21 that?

 

22 A. No, sir.

 

23 Q. Didn’t you tell Mr. Sneddon on direct

 

24 examination that you were subpoenaed to a grand jury

 

25 in Los Angeles?

 

26 A. Oh, yes, sir. But I didn’t go.

 

27 Q. You didn’t go. But you went down to be

 

28 interviewed under oath instead of going, true? 5248

 

1 A. Yes, sir.

 

2 Q. And as a result of your interview under

 

3 oath, no charges were ever brought in Los Angeles,

 

4 right?

 

5 A. No, sir.

Here’s another of Chacon’s financial desperation, which surely motivated him to file his frivolous lawsuit: during his deposition, he testified that he was upset that he was only getting paid $9 dollars an hour, while there were new security guards who earned a whopping $12 dollars an hour! What an injustice! I’m sure that extra $3 dollars an hours would have went a long way for him!

6 Q. Do you remember testifying how upset you

 

7 were at Neverland when you learned that other

 

8 employees got raises and you didn’t?

 

9 A. Yes, I believe there was one time.

 

10 Q. And tell the jury what that was all about.

 

11 A. Probably they had hired two or three

 

12 security, and they — I believe they paid them $12

 

13 an hour, and we were only getting $9 an hour.

 

14 Q. And did you complain about it to somebody?

 

15 A. Oh, yes, I did.

 

16 Q. Who?

 

17 A. Probably the lieutenant.

 

18 Q. And what happened?

 

19 A. Nothing ever happened.

 

20 Q. Was Mr. Abdool upset about that also, to

 

21 your knowledge?

 

22 A. I believe so, yes, sir.

 

23 Q. And you and he met and talked about it,

 

24 right?

 

25 A. Pardon me?

 

26 Q. You and he met and talked about it, correct?

 

27 A. Well, we all talked about that in security.

 

28 Q. You lodged a complaint, didn’t you? 5249

 

1 A. No, sir.

 

2 Q. Did you think Mr. Jackson’s security guards

 

3 were being paid more than you?

 

4 A. The new ones, yes, sir.

 

5 Q. How did you know what they were getting

 

6 paid?

 

7 A. I don’t remember. I don’t recall, sir, how

 

8 we found out.

To be continued: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2012/12/08/april-7th-2005-trial-analysis-ralph-chacon-direct-cross-examination-adrian-mcmanus-direct-cross-examination-part-3-of-5/ 

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3 Comments leave one →
  1. lynande51 permalink*
    December 6, 2012 5:19 am

    This is from an excerpt in Diane Dimond’s book “Be Careful Who You Love”.

    • In February 2005, I received an email from former Neverland Security guard Ralph Chacon. It was an open letter to Michael Jackson on the eve of his trial.

    Well, Mike, It’s the showdown. You knew this was coming. I know you have been thinking about how many times you have gotten away with it and you figured that you were invincible because you were at the top of the charts. But what you fail to realize [is] that karma is blind and it’s your turn now.
    Oh, I know that you are upset with those making noise about the “allegations”.
    What did you say once, “Tell a lie enough times and people will believe it?” Remember the night of the Grammy’s and you went on stage in a wheelchair and crutches? Then you got back to Neverland and you threw those crutches out of the limo window and ran inside? Oh, yeah, you know how to play the part.
    Well, this is not a game like the ones that you play with the innocent. Oh, I know about how you paly people against each other. Oh, that is mean and you are so predictable, like the nights you and that little innocent boy played with the Ouija Board and you wanted “things—- you know what I’m saying.
    You have a rude awakening coming, Mike. What are you thinking right at this moment? You know you need help because you’re sexual desires aren’t normal. You need help. Get it before court starts. This is your real conscience talking to you. Wake up MJ

    .

    First let me correct a few little errors here from Chacon. It was the 7th Annual Soul Train Awards broadcast from the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles March 9th, 1993 that Michael performed “Remember The Time” on stage in a gold chair. He had twisted his ankle the night before. On March 11th Michael attends an American Film Industry dinner in honor of Elizabeth Taylor at the Beverly Hilton Hotel in Los Angeles still on crutches.
    Then according to this excerpt from this book it looks like we know the origins of all that voodoo and satanic nonsense (the Ouija Board) that Orth and others like to spout about. Considering the close association of these people and Victor Gutierrez we now know where this came from don’t we. I wonder if that was an attempt to create another “Satanic Ritual” abuse case on the part of Gutierrez. Anybody want to bet that was the direction it was going? Look for a lie in Michael’s life and you will find someone associated with Victor Gutierrez that’s for sure.
    And if this email, whether it was public or not, does not look like someone that wants revenge nothing does. That is of course if it is true but then they were friends of hers on Facebook not that long ago so maybe it is. The arrogant sense of entitlement of these people is appalling.You know what is interesting is that the only one of the Neverland Five that did not file bankruptcy was Adrian McManus. She was having her wages garnished to pay the judgement against her and all of them. I wonder why she doesn’t turn on them instead of beign left to “hold the bag” so to speak. Who know’s there might be money in it for her if she turned on them and told the truth.

  2. shellywebstere permalink
    December 6, 2012 3:21 am

    I believe some docs which are in VG’s book were in the suitcase stolen by Chacon.

Trackbacks

  1. April 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Ralph Chacon (Direct & Cross Examination), Adrian McManus (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 1 of 5 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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