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April 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Ralph Chacon (Direct & Cross Examination), Adrian McManus (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 5 of 5

December 15, 2012

Next, Zonen displayed a Xeroxed copy of $300 dollars in cash that McManus claimed that Jackson paid her in 1994 after her deposition in the Jordan Chandler investigation. She attempted to testify that Jackson called her at her home and asked her to bring him a transcript of her deposition, but Mesereau’s objection was sustained. It was allegedly Jackson’s way of “thanking” McManus for not telling the truth about what she saw in her deposition.

9 Q. I’d like to show you a few exhibits, if I

 

10 may.

 

11 Counsel, you’ve seen these.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: Yeah.

 

13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: I’d like to show you Exhibit

 

14 797 and 798. What are those two exhibits, 797 and

 

15 798?

 

16 A. They’re — they’re — it’s an exhibit of a

 

17 note that Mr. Jackson had given me on an index card,

 

18 along with $300.

 

19 Q. Okay. Those are the two exhibits. One is

 

20 the note and the other is what?

 

21 A. The $300.

 

22 Q. It’s not actually $300 you have in front of

 

23 you, is it?

 

24 A. Half.

 

25 Q. Well, it’s a Xerox or a photocopy; is that

 

26 right?

 

27 A. Right, a Xerox copy.

 

28 Q. Explain what that is. Where did that money 5342

 

1 come from?

 

2 A. Well, I have to tell a story in order for

 

3 that to —

 

4 Q. Let me ask you a question and see if I can

 

5 lead you in that direction. Who gave you the $300?

 

6 A. Mr. Jackson.

 

7 Q. When did he give you that $300?

 

8 A. After he had read my transcript from the

 

9 Jordie Chandler deposition.

 

10 Q. All right. How did he happen to have your

 

11 transcript from the Jordie Chandler deposition?

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.

 

13 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

14 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you give him that

 

15 transcript?

 

16 A. Yes, because he called me at home and asked

 

17 me —

 

18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;

 

19 move to strike.

 

20 THE COURT: I’ll strike after, “Yes.”

 

21 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. Did you have a

 

22 conversation with Mr. Jackson about your testimony

 

23 during the Jordie Chandler deposition?

 

24 A. Yes, I did.

 

25 Q. And that was the deposition you previously

 

26 told us wherein you denied that anything had

 

27 happened that you had seen; is that correct?

 

28 A. That’s correct. 5343

 

1 Q. All right. In the course of that

 

2 conversation with Mr. Jackson, did he ask you if you

 

3 had a copy of that transcript?

 

4 A. Yes, he did.

 

5 Q. Did he ask to see it?

 

6 A. Yes, he did.

 

7 Q. Did you give it to him?

 

8 A. Yes. Yes, I did.

 

9 Q. When did you give it to him? How long after

 

10 that telephone conversation was it that you gave it

 

11 to him?

 

12 A. I believe it might have been the next day.

 

13 Q. And how did you happen to have a copy of the

 

14 transcript?

 

15 A. I had gotten it earlier than usual, than the

 

16 usual wait for a transcript, and I believe I — I

 

17 believe I had called Jan, I think her name was Jan

 

18 Faye, and then they had sent it to me, but I got it

 

19 earlier than you would wait for a deposition.

 

20 Q. Had you already read that transcript before

 

21 you gave it to Mr. Jackson?

 

22 A. Maybe parts of it.

 

23 Q. What was your next conversation with Mr.

 

24 Jackson?

 

25 A. Are you talking about, like, on the phone

 

26 or —

 

27 Q. Well, did you have a follow-up conversation

 

28 about that transcript? 5344

 

1 A. Yeah. He told me that he had read it.

 

2 Q. Did he give it back to you, the transcript?

 

3 A. Actually, I got it back. I told him I was

 

4 going to take it.

 

5 Q. Did he give you anything?

 

6 A. Yes, he did.

 

7 Q. What did he give you?

 

8 A. The $300 and the little note.

 

9 Q. And the note says what?

 

10 A. It said, “Adrian, thanx for everything.”

 

11 Q. And the $300 were in what denominations?

 

12 A. In 100-dollar bills.

 

13 Q. Did you see anything unique about the

 

14 hundred-dollar bills?

 

15 A. Yes, I did.

 

16 Q. What was that?

 

17 A. The serial numbers were all, like, in

 

18 sequence, which was really neat, because I had never

 

19 seen anything like that, and I thought that was

 

20 really neat.

 

21 Q. How did you happen to have a Xerox copy of

 

22 them or a photocopy?

 

23 A. Because — I thought it was so neat that I

 

24 photocopied it, because I had never seen anything

 

25 like that, you know, the sequence of bills like

 

26 that.

 

27 Q. Did you keep the money?

 

28 A. Actually, when — when he gave it to me, I 5345

 

1 called him up at the theater, he was in the theater,

 

2 and I told him I didn’t want the money. And he

 

3 asked me why. And I said, “I just” — “I don’t want

 

4 the money.”

 

5 Q. He didn’t give you the money in person?

 

6 A. He gave me the money, but it was in an index

 

7 card and it was folded.

 

8 Q. Okay.

 

9 A. And he told me to read it, to open it. It

 

10 was in his bedroom. He handed it to me in his room.

 

11 And I didn’t open it right away, because I was

 

12 cleaning.

 

13 And he kept saying, “Open it, open it, open

 

14 it.” And I opened it after he left the room, and I

 

15 saw the $300 and the note was all attached.

 

16 Q. And then you called him?

 

17 A. And I called them. He went to the theater

 

18 and I called him.

 

19 Q. All right. What did you say to him?

 

20 A. And I told him, “I can’t take that money.”

 

21 And he said, “Why?” And I said, “I just can’t take

 

22 it.” And he said — he kept asking, “Why?” And

 

23 then he said, “Well, then give it to your son.”

 

24 Q. Did you do so?

 

25 A. I ended up giving my son some of the money,

 

26 yeah.

 

27 Q. Did you keep the balance of it?

 

28 A. I kept some money. I don’t even recall how 5346

 

1 much.

 

2 Q. The Xeroxes that you’re looking at, the one

 

3 of the note itself, does that accurately reproduce

 

4 the note?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. All right. Now, the other one that shows

 

7 the three hundred-dollar bills, can you tell us why

 

8 it only shows half of the $100 bills?

 

9 A. I don’t understand the question.

 

10 Q. Well, as you look at that exhibit, do you

 

11 see that only half of each $100 bill is depicted in

 

12 that Xerox or that photocopy? Am I right?

 

13 A. Yeah, you’re right.

 

14 Q. And tell me why that is. Tell me why the

 

15 Xerox doesn’t show the entire $100 bill.

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.

 

17 MR. ZONEN: Withdraw that question.

 

18 Q. Do you know why that is? When you — go

 

19 ahead.

 

20 A. Actually, when I photocopied, I photocopied

 

21 both sides, you know, like the front side of the

 

22 bills and then the back side of the bill. But in

 

23 what I turned over in my deposition, the whole bills

 

24 were there. I don’t know why it’s just half.

25 Q. You’ve never seen that before?

 

26 A. I’ve never seen this before.

 

27 Q. All right. To the extent that those are

 

28 three $100 bills with consecutive numbers, do they 5347

 

1 appear to be the same $100 bills?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. And they are, in fact, $100 bills with

 

4 consecutive numbers; is that correct?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 MR. ZONEN: I move to introduce both of

 

7 those exhibits into evidence.

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll object; no foundation.

 

9 She did not recognize the document.

 

10 THE COURT: I’ll admit the documents.

 

11 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

Under cross examination, McManus was grilled about the real reason why she lost the civil case involving herself and her husband; they were guardian ad litems for her brother’s estate, and were found to have willfully and maliciously  stolen the funds in a trust account that was meant for their niece and nephew! They were ordered to repay $30,584.89 plus the attorney’s fees of the plaintiffs, which totaled $5,085.27!

20 CROSS-EXAMINATION

 

21 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

22 Q. Good afternoon, Miss McManus.

 

23 A. Good afternoon.

 

24 Q. We haven’t met. My name is Tom Mesereau and

 

25 I speak for Michael Jackson.

 

26 A. Okay.

 

27 Q. The prosecutor for the government mentioned

 

28 a case you were involved in where you were sued by 5355

 

1 Rosalie Hill, correct?

 

2 A. Correct.

 

3 Q. You were sued by Rosalie Hill as the

 

4 guardian ad litem for two children, correct?

 

5 A. Correct.

 

6 Q. The children were Shane McManus and Megan

 

7 McManus, correct?

 

8 A. Correct.

 

9 Q. And the prosecutor for the government

 

10 mentioned that you didn’t have a lawyer representing

 

11 you, right?

 

12 A. Correct.

 

13 Q. And that case was not tried before a jury,

 

14 right?

 

15 A. Right.

 

16 Q. It was tried before a judge of the Santa

 

17 Barbara Superior Court, correct?

 

18 A. I believe so.

 

19 Q. That was Judge Richard A. St. John, Judge of

 

20 the Santa Barbara Superior Court, true?

 

21 A. I believe so.

 

22 Q. And you and your husband testified before

 

23 Judge St. John, right?

 

24 A. I believe so.

 

25 Q. You told them your position under oath,

 

26 correct?

 

27 A. I believe so.

 

28 Q. And after you told Judge St. John your 5356

 

1 position under oath, he found that you and your

 

2 husband willfully and maliciously defrauded these

 

3 children out of the money in the estate, true?

 

4 A. I believe so.

 

5 Q. Judge St. John found that that money was to

 

6 be held in trust for the benefit of those two

 

7 children, right?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. He found that you and your husband

 

10 dissipated those funds, right?

 

11 A. I believe so.

 

12 Q. He found that you and your husband violated

 

13 that trust, right?

 

14 A. I believe so.

 

15 Q. He entered a judgment against you and your

 

16 husband for $30,000 — excuse me, 30,584.89,

 

17 correct?

 

18 A. I believe so, but I believe it was — I

 

19 thought it was like separate, like — I thought it

 

20 was maybe 17 for me and 17 for my husband. Maybe —

 

21 I don’t know. Maybe that’s right, what you have

 

22 there.

 

23 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

24 show you Judge St. John’s judgment?

 

25 A. Sure.

 

26 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

27 THE COURT: Yes.

 

28 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5357

 

1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

2 look at that judgment?

 

3 A. Right here? Yes.

 

4 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about the

 

5 amount Judge St. John awarded the plaintiffs against

 

6 you and your husband?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. Okay. It was $30,584.89, which was

 

9 principal and interest due, correct?

 

10 A. I believe so.

 

11 Q. And after he entered that judgment, Judge

 

12 St. John also awarded the plaintiffs attorney’s

 

13 fees, right?

 

14 A. I believe so.

 

15 Q. He signed a separate judgment awarding the

 

16 people who sued you and your husband $5,085.27 in

 

17 attorney’s fees and costs, right?

 

18 A. I believe so.

 

19 Q. And in that judgment, Judge St. John also

 

20 found, again, that you and your husband had

 

21 willfully and maliciously stolen the money from

 

22 those children, right?

 

23 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

 

24 THE COURT: Sustained.

Mesereau then attacked her credibility even more by questioning her about the $35,000 dollar judgment that was entered against her for the sketch of Elvis Presley that she believed was drawn by Jackson, the fact that she stipulated that she had acted with fraud, oppression, and malice in her lawsuit against Jackson, and the punitive damages that would have been awarded to Jackson had he not waived the court hearing to decide the amount in exchange for one dollar! (How nice of him! But I guarantee it wasn’t just out of the kindness of their heart; it was because he knew it was pointless because they couldn’t pay it!)

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: All right. Now, that

 

26 lawsuit was before you sued Michael Jackson,

 

27 correct?

 

28 A. I believe so. 5358

 

1 Q. And who did you join with in your suit

 

2 against Michael Jackson?

 

3 A. Kassim Abdool — do you want the names?

 

4 Q. Yes, please.

 

5 A. Kassim Abdool, Ralph Chacon, Melanie Bagnall

 

6 and Sandie Domz.

 

7 Q. And in that case you had a lawyer, right?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. In fact, you had a number of lawyers, right?

 

10 A. Correct.

 

11 Q. And you’ve already identified the lawyers

 

12 that represented you and the other people that sued

 

13 Michael Jackson with you, correct?

 

14 A. Correct.

 

15 Q. Now, that case went to a jury, right?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. That was a jury in this courthouse in Santa

 

18 Maria, right?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. In that particular case, a Santa Maria jury

 

21 held that you had stolen from Michael Jackson,

 

22 right?

 

23 A. I believe so.

 

24 Q. And they awarded Mr. Jackson $35,000 for

 

25 what you personally had stolen from him, right?

26 A. The sketch that I found in the trash, yes.

 

27 Q. That was a sketch he had done of Elvis

 

28 Presley, right? 5359         

 

1 A. Well, I thought it looked like Elvis

 

2 Presley, but I don’t really know for —

 

3 Q. But you tried to sell it to a tabloid,

 

4 correct?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. You did sell it to a tabloid, correct?

 

7 A. Well, I gave it to Gary Morgan.

 

8 Q. You sold it to a tabloid, right?

 

9 A. I believe he did.

 

10 Q. You don’t know for sure?

 

11 A. I don’t know who he actually really sold it

 

12 to, but —

 

13 Q. You certainly inquired at some point,

 

14 correct?

 

15 A. I think I saw somewhere later that it was

 

16 printed, but I don’t remember like what, but it was

 

17 printed.

 

18 Q. But when you sold it, you believed it was a

 

19 sketch by Michael Jackson of Elvis Presley, right?

 

20 A. I thought so.

 

21 Q. And a Santa Maria jury held that you had

 

22 stolen that from Michael Jackson, right?

 

23 A. That’s what they thought, yeah.

 

24 Q. And that was their verdict, true?

 

25 A. I believe so.

 

26 Q. Okay. There was a finding that you had

 

27 acted with fraud and malice against Michael Jackson

 

28 in that case, correct? 5360

 

1 A. I believe — you know, it’s been so long, I

 

2 don’t remember, but probably.

 

3 Q. You actually stipulated that you had engaged

 

4 in fraud, oppression, and malicious conduct against

 

5 Mr. Jackson, true?

 

6 A. You know what, I don’t remember everything.

 

7 It’s been a while, but —

 

8 Q. Would it — excuse me. Would it refresh

 

9 your recollection if I show you that judgment?

 

10 A. Sure. That’s fine.

 

11 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

12 THE COURT: Yes.

 

13 MR. ZONEN: May I see, Counsel?

 

14 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

 

15 table.)

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: Let me withdraw the question

 

17 and ask it again.

 

18 Q. The jury found you had acted with fraud,

 

19 oppression and malice against Mr. Jackson, true?

 

20 A. You know what? Honestly I don’t really

 

21 recall. I don’t know.

 

22 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if you

 

23 see the judgment?

 

24 A. Well, sure.

 

25 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

26 THE COURT: Yes.

 

27 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to 5361

 

1 read that judgment?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about the

 

4 jury in Santa Maria finding that you had acted with

 

5 fraud, oppression, and malice against Mr. Jackson?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. That’s what they held, right?

 

8 A. That’s what they — yeah.

 

9 Q. All right. Now, the total amount — excuse

 

10 me, let me start again.

 

11 The suit began when you and the others sued

 

12 Mr. Jackson, right?

 

13 A. Correct.

 

14 Q. And after you and Ralph Chacon and Mr.

 

15 Abdool and Ms. Bagnall sued Mr. Jackson, he

 

16 responded with a countersuit, correct?

 

17 A. Correct.

 

18 Q. And the countersuit was an allegation that

 

19 you had stolen property from him, right?

 

20 A. I believe so.

 

21 Q. Okay. Mr. Jackson’s suit was a response to

 

22 your suit, right?

 

23 A. Correct.

 

24 Q. Everything began when you and Mr. Chacon and

 

25 Mr. Abdool filed the action, right?

 

26 A. Correct.

 

27 Q. And that’s the action where you were

 

28 represented by Mr. Ring, correct? 5362

 

1 A. Correct.

 

2 Q. Okay. At the end of the case, there was a

 

3 judgment signed by Judge Zel Canter of the Superior

 

4 Court of Santa Barbara in Santa Maria against you

 

5 and Mr. Chacon and Mr. Abdool and Melanie Bagnall

 

6 and Sandie Domz for $1,473,117.61, right?

 

7 A. I believe it was more. I — I thought it

 

8 was 1.6 million each person.

 

9 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

10 show you —

 

11 A. Sure.

 

12 Q. — this?

 

13 May I approach, Your Honor?

 

14 THE COURT: Yes.

 

15 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.

 

16 THE WITNESS: Okay. All right. Uh-huh.

 

17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

18 look at that judgment?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. And does it refresh your recollection about

 

21 the amount?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. Okay. Now, do you recall that Mr. Jackson

 

24 was entitled to have a hearing on what are called

 

25 punitive damages after he won the jury verdict,

 

26 right?

 

27 A. I believe so.

 

28 Q. And Mr. Jackson agreed to waive that portion 5363

 

1 of the trial, correct?

 

2 A. I believe so.

 

3 Q. He did it in return for one dollar, right?

 

4 A. Correct.

McManus was next questioned about her whopping three hour meeting with Zonen and Det. Russell Birchim about her testimony from her lawsuit against Jackson:

5 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you some questions

 

6 about a deposition that you appeared at in the

 

7 Jordie Chandler lawsuit, right?

 

8 A. Correct.

 

9 Q. And I believe you told the jury that you had

 

10 lied under oath in that lawsuit, correct?

 

11 A. Can you repeat that? I’m sorry.

 

12 Q. Yes, sure. I believe you told the jury that

 

13 you lied under oath in that lawsuit, correct?

 

14 A. What jury? During our trial?

 

15 Q. No, let me start the question again. If you

 

16 don’t understand anything I ask you, don’t answer,

 

17 just ask me. I’ll try and rephrase.

 

18 A. Okay.

 

19 Q. In response to the prosecutor’s questions,

 

20 you told the jury that you had appeared at a sworn

 

21 deposition in the Jordie Chandler lawsuit, right?

 

22 A. Correct.

 

23 Q. That was a lawsuit that you knew Mr.

 

24 Chandler’s parents had filed against Mr. Jackson,

 

25 right?

 

26 A. Correct.

 

27 Q. And you appeared and testified under oath in

 

28 a deposition, right? 5364

 

1 A. Correct.

 

2 Q. And you were asked questions by a number of

 

3 lawyers, including Larry Feldman, right?

 

4 A. Correct.

 

5 Q. That deposition took place on December 7th,

 

6 1993, right?

 

7 A. Yes. Correct.

 

8 Q. When have you last reviewed that deposition?

 

9 A. Actually, I never really went through it to

 

10 really review it.

 

11 Q. I’m sorry?

 

12 A. I never really went through it to review it.

 

13 Q. Okay. Before I ask you some questions about

 

14 that deposition, when did you last talk to any

 

15 prosecutor about your testimony in this trial?

 

16 A. Last night.

 

17 Q. And who did you talk to about your testimony

 

18 in this trial from the prosecution side?

 

19 A. Ron Zonen.

 

20 Q. That’s Prosecutor Zonen, who just asked you

 

21 some questions?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. Okay. Did he talk to you about what you

 

24 were going to be asked today?

 

25 A. No.

 

26 Q. Was it a phone call or a meeting?

 

27 A. A meeting.

 

28 Q. Where did the meeting take place with 5365

 

1 Prosecutor Zonen?

 

2 A. In Santa Maria.

 

3 Q. And how long did the meeting last?

 

4 A. A little over three hours.

 

5 Q. Did Prosecutor Zonen give you anything to

 

6 review before you testified today?

 

7 A. No.

 

8 Q. Did you review any documents to prepare for

 

9 your testimony today?

 

10 A. Well, I — I have my deposition from when I

 

11 sued Mr. Jackson, and I did go over that.

 

12 Q. Now, that’s the deposition from your suit

 

13 against Mr. Jackson, right?

 

14 A. Right.

 

15 Q. That’s not the deposition that you gave in

 

16 the Chandler lawsuit, right?

 

17 A. Correct.

 

18 Q. Now, did you review the deposition you gave

 

19 in your suit against Mr. Jackson to prepare for your

 

20 testimony today?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. But you didn’t review your deposition in the

 

23 Chandler case to prepare for your testimony today?

 

24 A. Correct.

 

25 Q. Did Prosecutor Zonen ask you to review that

 

26 deposition in your suit against Mr. Jackson to

 

27 prepare for your testimony today?

 

28 A. No. 5366

 

1 Q. Did he ask you to review any documents

 

2 before you testified?

 

3 A. No.

 

4 Q. You spent three hours with him last night?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. Did that take place at the District

 

7 Attorney’s Office here?

 

8 A. No.

 

9 Q. Where did it take place?

 

10 A. Somewhere in Santa Maria, a home.

 

11 Q. Okay. Was Prosecutor Zonen the only one

 

12 present, besides yourself?

 

13 A. No.

 

14 Q. Who else was there?

 

15 A. During that meeting?

 

16 Q. Yes, please.

 

17 A. Russ Birchim.

 

18 Q. That’s a — Russ Birchim, a Santa Barbara

 

19 sheriff?

 

20 A. I believe so.

 

21 Q. Was anyone else present?

 

22 A. Just them in the room.

 

23 Q. Okay. And during those three hours, they

 

24 went over what you were going to be asked today,

 

25 right?

 

26 A. Well, they went over my depo — Ron went

 

27 over my deposition.

 

28 Q. Did he point to specific pages in your 5367

 

1 deposition?

 

2 A. No.

 

3 Q. Well, your deposition is volume after volume

 

4 after volume, isn’t it?

 

5 A. Yeah.

 

6 Q. How many volumes was your deposition in your

 

7 suit against Mr. Jackson?

 

8 A. You know what? I’m thinking I was deposed

 

9 for eight days. That’s what I think.

 

10 Q. Did Prosecutor Zonen bring a copy of that

 

11 deposition with him to your meeting?

 

12 A. I think he had one.

 

13 Q. Okay. Did he appear to have all of the

 

14 volumes to the deposition with him?

 

15 A. I really don’t know.

 

16 Q. Okay. But he had specific parts he wanted

 

17 to talk to you about, right?

 

18 A. Not really specific parts. Just kind of

 

19 going through it, you know.

 

20 Q. Did you go through all those eight days of

 

21 deposition with Prosecutor Zonen in three hours?

 

22 A. I don’t believe so.

 

23 Q. Okay. Who chose what portions of the

 

24 deposition you were going to look at during the

 

25 three-hour meeting, if you know?

 

26 A. I have no idea.

 

27 Q. Okay. Correct me if I’m wrong, Prosecutor

 

28 Zonen had portions of those deposition volumes he 5368

 

1 wanted to talk to you about, correct?

 

2 MR. ZONEN: Objection as to what he wanted

 

3 to talk about. Vague and speculative.

 

4 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did Prosecutor Zonen

 

6 point out certain portions of those volumes that he

 

7 wanted — that he appeared to want to discuss with

 

8 you?

 

9 MR. ZONEN: Objection as to asked and

 

10 answered and speculative as to what he appeared to

 

11 want to ask.

 

12 THE COURT: I think you need to cut that

 

13 question in half.

 

14 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. All right.

 

15 THE COURT: I’ll sustain the objection.

 

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: During your three-hour

 

17 meeting last night with Prosecutor Zonen, you looked

 

18 at seven or eight volumes of your deposition, right?

 

19 MR. ZONEN: Objection; assumes facts not in

 

20 evidence that she looked at seven or eight volumes

21 of anything.

 

22 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

23 You may answer.

 

24 THE WITNESS: I’m sorry, you lost me. Um,

 

25 can you repeat it?

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Yes, sure.

 

27 During your three-hour meeting last night

 

28 with Prosecutor Zonen, you went through volumes of 5369

 

1 the deposition you gave in your suit against Michael

 

2 Jackson, correct?

 

3 A. I don’t know if it was volumes. It was just

 

4 whatever page had opened, you know.

 

5 Q. Who opened the pages?

 

6 A. It wasn’t me.

 

7 Q. It was Prosecutor Zonen, wasn’t it?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. And he seemed to have certain pages he

 

10 wanted to talk to you about, correct?

 

11 MR. ZONEN: Objection as to what he wanted

 

12 to talk about. Speculative.

 

13 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

14 You may answer.

 

15 THE WITNESS: I have no idea. I just was —

 

16 he was just going through it, period. I don’t —

 

17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And was he asking you

 

18 questions about what you said in that deposition?

 

19 A. No. He was just reading it.

Mesereau then got to the heart of the matter, the most important part of his cross examination of McManus, and questioned her about statements she made during her deposition in the Jordan Chandler investigation on December 7th, 1993.

During that deposition (which was many months before her so-called “harassment” at Neverland began), she stated that she trusted Jackson and would leave her son around him, she never saw Jordan Chandler or Brett Barnes sleep in Jackson’s room, the reason Jordan Chandler’s clothes were in Jackson’s bedroom is because June Chandler brought them into his room in a suitcase, she “couldn’t tell” if Jordan Chandler ever took a shower with Jackson, she had never seen Jackson in a Jacuzzi, and that Jackson’s bedroom alarms were justified for security reasons!

She also admitted that she lied throughout her testimony, but “didn’t really think of it that way”. In reality, she told the truth throughout her deposition with Larry Feldman, and then subsequently lied and said she was lying throughout that testimony in order to maintain credibility with the prosecution.

20 Q. Okay. I’m going to ask you some questions

 

21 about the deposition you gave in the Chandler

 

22 suit —

 

23 A. Uh-huh.

 

24 Q. — on December 7th, 1993, okay?

 

25 A. Sure.

 

26 Q. Do you remember you said under oath that you

 

27 trust Mr. Jackson and you would leave your son alone

 

28 with him? 5370

 

1 A. I don’t recall any of that. I don’t recall —

 

2 I don’t know what I said, because I have not looked

 

3 at that.

 

4 Q. Might it refresh your recollection if I just

 

5 show you that page?

 

6 A. Sure.

 

7 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

8 THE COURT: Yes.

 

9 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance —

 

11 excuse me. Have you had a chance to look at those

 

12 pages of your deposition?

 

13 A. No. Oh, right now? Yes, I’m sorry. Sorry.

 

14 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

15 you said in that deposition?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. You said words to the effect, “I trust Mr.

 

18 Jackson,” and you would leave your son alone with

 

19 him, right?

 

20 A. I believe so.

 

21 Q. Okay. You were asked if you ever saw Jordie

 

22 Chandler in Michael Jackson’s bedroom and you said,

 

23 “No,” right?

 

24 A. Correct, I believe.

 

25 Q. You said you had never seen Brett Barnes

 

26 sleep in Michael Jackson’s room, right?

 

27 A. Probably. I can’t recall everything in

 

28 that. 5371

 

1 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

2 you?

 

3 A. I hate to have you keep coming back, but

 

4 that’s fine.

 

5 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

6 THE COURT: Yes.

 

7 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

 

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

9 look at that page?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

12 you said under oath in that deposition?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. You said you had never seen Brett Barnes

 

15 sleep in Michael Jackson’s room, right?

 

16 A. Correct.

 

17 Q. You didn’t recall when you had met Wade

 

18 Robeson for the first time, right?

 

19 MR. ZONEN: Objection; hearsay.

 

20 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it. I’ll

 

21 withdraw it.

 

22 Q. Do you remember testifying under oath that

 

23 you didn’t recall when you met Wade Robeson for the

 

24 first time?

 

25 MR. ZONEN: Objection; hearsay.

 

26 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

27 You may answer.

 

28 THE WITNESS: Um, actually, I don’t — I 5372

 

1 don’t recall. I didn’t go over that, so I don’t —

 

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

 

3 recollection if you look at that page?

 

4 A. Sure.

 

5 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

6 THE COURT: Yes.

 

7 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

9 look at that page of your deposition?

 

10 A. Yeah.

 

11 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about your

 

12 saying you don’t know when you first met Wade

 

13 Robeson?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. Do you remember testifying you didn’t know

 

16 how many times Brett Barnes had been to the ranch?

 

17 A. Probably.

 

18 Q. Do you know if that’s what you said?

 

19 A. I believe — I don’t know.

 

20 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look

 

21 at the page?

 

22 A. Sure.

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

 

24 THE COURT: Yes.

 

25 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

27 look at that page?

 

28 A. Yes. 5373

 

1 Q. And you testified under oath you didn’t know

 

2 how many times Brett Barnes had been to the ranch,

 

3 right?

 

4 A. I believe so.

 

5 Q. Okay. Do you remember testifying under oath

 

6 that you didn’t know where Brett Barnes slept?

 

7 A. I probably did. I don’t remember.

 

8 Q. Might it refresh your recollection if I show

 

9 you the page?

 

10 A. (Nods head up and down.)

 

11 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

12 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

14 look at that page?

 

15 A. Yes.

 

16 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

17 you said under oath about whether you knew where Mr.

 

18 Barnes slept?

 

19 A. Yeah.

 

20 Q. And what did you say?

 

21 A. I believe I said, “I don’t know.”

 

22 Q. Okay. Now, you knew you were under oath in

 

23 this deposition, right?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. Did Prosecutor Zonen discuss with you last

 

26 night what you were going to say if confronted with

 

27 this sworn deposition in trial?

 

28 A. No. 5374

 

1 Q. Did the issue of what you had said under

 

2 oath in the Chandler deposition ever come up during

 

3 the three hours you spent last night with Government

 

4 Prosecutor Zonen?

 

5 A. No.

 

6 Q. Okay. Do you remember being asked under

 

7 oath in that deposition if you ever saw Jordie

 

8 Chandler’s clothes at the ranch?

 

9 A. I believe that I do recall that.

 

10 Q. Do you remember saying that you saw his

 

11 mother bring them into Mr. Jackson’s room in a

 

12 suitcase?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. Do you remember being asked questions by

 

15 Mr. Feldman about the alarm system in Mr. Jackson’s

 

16 room?

 

17 A. I don’t recall that.

 

18 Q. Remember telling him, “People like to kill

 

19 celebrities, so you have to be careful with your

 

20 life”?

 

21 A. I don’t recall that.

 

22 Q. Okay. Would it refresh your recollection if

 

23 I show you that portion of your deposition?

 

24 A. Sure.

 

25 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

26 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

28 review that page? 5375

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

3 you said under oath to Mr. Feldman on that subject?

 

4 A. Yes.

 

5 Q. You did say, “When you’re a celebrity, you

 

6 live a different life than regular people. I mean,

 

7 people like to kill celebrities, so, you know, he

 

8 has to be careful, you know, with his life.” And

 

9 then —

 

10 MR. ZONEN: I’m going to object as to

 

11 hearsay, reading from a deposition that’s not

 

12 inconsistent with current testimony.

 

13 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, are you telling the

 

15 jury that throughout this deposition you committed

 

16 perjury?

 

17 MR. ZONEN: Objection; calls for a legal

 

18 conclusion.

 

19 MR. MESEREAU: I believe it was raised on

 

20 direction examination by the prosecutor, Your Honor.

 

21 MR. ZONEN: Not issues of perjury.

 

22 THE COURT: I’ll sustain the objection to

 

23 the question as phrased.

 

24 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

 

25 Q. You told Prosecutor Zonen that you

 

26 repeatedly lied under oath in that deposition,

 

27 correct?

 

28 A. Are you — what are you talking about? 5376

 

1 Q. When Prosecutor Zonen asked you some

 

2 questions today in court, remember that?

 

3 A. Okay, yes.

 

4 Q. He asked you if you had lied under oath in

 

5 the Chandler deposition, right?

 

6 A. Right.

 

7 Q. You said you did, right?

 

8 A. Right.

 

9 Q. Do you know how many times you lied under

 

10 oath in the Chandler deposition?

 

11 A. I believe the whole time I did not tell the

 

12 truth on that.

 

13 Q. Did you believe you were committing a crime

 

14 when you did that?

 

15 A. I really didn’t. I really didn’t think of

 

16 it that way.

 

17 Q. Well, let me ask you this: So far, you’ve

 

18 admitted you lied under oath in the Chandler

 

19 deposition for what, a day?

 

20 A. Well, throughout that — throughout that

 

21 deposition, yes.

 

22 Q. And Judge St. John found that you lied in

 

23 that trial, right?

 

24 MR. ZONEN: Objection. Asked and answered;

 

25 argumentative.

 

26 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.

 

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And the jury found you

 

28 didn’t tell the truth in your suit against Mr. 5377

 

1 Jackson, right?

 

2 MR. ZONEN: Objection. Asked and answered;

 

3 and argumentative.

 

4 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

5 Mr. Mesereau, a few questions back, after

 

6 you refreshed her recollection with the transcript

 

7 about “you’re a celebrity,” I sustained an

 

8 objection, and I was incorrect.

 

9 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

 

10 THE COURT: Do you want to reask that

 

11 question? I’ll reverse my ruling on that.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

 

13 THE COURT: So what had happened is she’d

 

14 refreshed her recollection, and then you wanted

 

15 to —

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

 

17 THE COURT: Go ahead.

 

18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember I showed

 

19 you the page of the deposition about what you said

 

20 about “people try to kill celebrities”?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. And did that refresh your recollection about

 

23 what you said on that issue under oath?

 

24 A. I believe so.

 

25 Q. Okay. And as you recall, what did you say

 

26 under oath on that issue?

 

27 MR. ZONEN: Objection; irrelevant.

 

28 THE COURT: Overruled. 5378

 

1 THE WITNESS: I forgot.

 

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

 

3 recollection if I show it to you again?

 

4 A. Yes.

 

5 THE COURT: What I’m going to do is let you

 

6 read it to her. That’s what I stopped you from

 

7 doing. And I’ll allow you to do it.

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

 

9 THE COURT: And he’s going to ask you if

 

10 this is —

 

11 You ask her.

12 (Laughter.)

 

13 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. All right.

 

14 Q. Ms. McManus, this is what you said under

 

15 oath: “But you have to understand now, when you’re

 

16 a celebrity, you live a different life than regular

 

17 people. I mean, people like to kill celebrities,

 

18 so, you know, he has to be careful, you know, with

 

19 his life, and that little sensor benefits him for

 

20 his life.”

 

21 Remember saying that?

 

22 A. I believe so.

 

23 Q. Okay. Now, you weren’t lying when you said

 

24 that, were you?

 

25 A. No.

 

26 Q. In fact, you knew that Mr. Jackson is very

 

27 nervous about his personal security, isn’t he?

 

28 MR. ZONEN: Objection. Speculative as to 5379

 

1 what he is nervous about; lack of foundation.

 

2 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

3 You may answer.

 

4 THE WITNESS: Repeat it, please.

 

5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You knew when you worked

 

6 at Neverland that Mr. Jackson is extremely nervous

 

7 about his security, isn’t he?

 

8 A. I really don’t know.

 

9 Q. Well, when you saw his bodyguards, right?

 

10 A. Are you talking —

 

11 Q. Huh?

 

12 A. Are you talking OSS or just security from

 

13 the house?

 

14 Q. Let me rephrase it. I think I was too vague

 

15 on that one.

 

16 A. Okay.

 

17 Q. During the time you worked at Neverland —

 

18 A. Uh-huh.

 

19 Q. — was it your understanding that Mr.

 

20 Jackson is someone who’s very concerned about his

 

21 personal security?

 

22 A. I really don’t know. I mean — I don’t

 

23 know.

 

24 Q. You knew he had personal bodyguards to

 

25 protect him, right?

 

26 A. Yeah.

 

27 Q. You knew they traveled with him when he went

 

28 on tours around the world, right? 5380

 

1 A. Yeah.

 

2 Q. You knew they were often armed, right?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. And you knew that he was always concerned

 

5 about threats to his personal welfare, right?

 

6 A. I don’t know about that. But, I mean, I

 

7 don’t want to answer that, because I don’t know.

 

8 Q. Did it ever occur to you that he might be

 

9 concerned about his personal welfare?

 

10 A. I — I don’t know. I —

 

11 Q. Okay. You testified under oath that twice

 

12 you saw June Chandler bring her son Jordie’s clothes

 

13 in a suitcase into Mr. Jackson’s room?

 

14 A. I don’t know if it was twice. I know at

 

15 least once. I don’t remember what I said on that.

 

16 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

17 show you that page?

 

18 A. Sure.

 

19 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

20 THE COURT: Yes.

 

21 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

23 look at that page of your sworn deposition?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

26 you said on that subject?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. What did you say? 5381

 

1 A. Twice.

 

2 Q. Okay. You testified that you saw Mrs.

 

3 Chandler open the suitcase and take clothes out,

 

4 right?

 

5 A. I — you know what, I don’t recall.

 

6 Q. Do you remember saying that she would sit

 

7 down on the floor, take clothes out of the suitcase,

 

8 fold them? Do you remember that?

 

9 A. Honestly, no, I don’t remember.

 

10 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

11 you that page?

 

12 A. Yeah. Sorry.

 

13 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

14 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

16 look at that page of your sworn deposition?

 

17 A. Yeah.

 

18 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

19 you said on that subject?

 

20 A. Yes.

 

21 Q. What did you say?

 

22 A. That she would fold the clothes.

 

23 Q. That she would bring the suitcase and get on

 

24 the floor and —

 

25 A. And fold the clothes, yes.

 

26 Q. Remember testifying under oath that you were

 

27 never there at night when Jordie Chandler was in the

 

28 room? 5382

 

1 A. You know what, I don’t recall.

 

2 Q. Remember testifying you said you were never

 

3 at Neverland at night when Jordie was there?

 

4 A. I don’t recall that either.

 

5 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

6 you that page?

 

7 A. Sure. Probably, yes.

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

9 THE COURT: Yes.

 

10 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

12 look at that page of your sworn deposition?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

15 you said about that subject?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. What did you say?

 

18 A. That I wasn’t there at night with Jordie.

 

19 Q. Now, there were many occasions where Jordie

 

20 Chandler, his mother and sister would come to the

 

21 ranch and stay, right?

 

22 A. I believe so.

 

23 Q. Do you remember what his sister’s name was?

 

24 A. Lily.

 

25 Q. Did you ever talk to Lily?

 

26 A. I don’t believe so.

 

27 Q. Do you know what his mother’s name was?

 

28 A. June Chandler. 5383

 

1 Q. Did you ever talk to June Chandler?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. What were your typical hours working at

 

4 Neverland?

 

5 A. They varied, actually.

 

6 Q. Was there a particular time you normally

 

7 punched in?

 

8 A. Sometimes 8:30, sometimes 9:00 in the

 

9 morning.

10 Q. Do you remember testifying that you have

 

11 never seen Mr. Jackson in bed?

 

12 A. I don’t recall.

 

13 Q. Might it refresh your recollection if I show

 

14 you your deposition?

 

15 A. Sure.

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

17 THE COURT: Yes.

 

18 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

20 look at that page?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

23 you said —

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. — on that occasion?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. What did you say?

 

28 A. That I didn’t see him in his bed. 5384

 

1 Q. You’d never seen Mr. Jackson in bed, right?

 

2 A. Right.

 

3 Q. What was your understanding about when you

 

4 were supposed to be at Neverland to do your work?

 

5 A. Well, there was a schedule, and we kind of

 

6 just followed the schedule. But then there were

 

7 times that you didn’t know when you were going to go

 

8 home because of the guests being there late. So you

 

9 come in at a certain time, but that didn’t mean that

 

10 you were going to leave at the time that you were

 

11 scheduled.

 

12 Q. So how would you learn what time you had to

 

13 be there?

 

14 A. I believe there was a schedule that was

 

15 made. You know, like supervisor would make it. And

 

16 you’d be on the schedule at maybe 8:30 or 9:00,

 

17 sometimes maybe till 5:30 or 6:00. But then, like I

 

18 said, if there were guests, you didn’t know what

 

19 time you were going to go home.

 

20 Q. Do you remember testifying you couldn’t tell

 

21 if Mr. Jordie Chandler ever took a shower with Mr.

 

22 Jackson, right?

 

23 A. A shower with Jackson?

 

24 Q. Yes.

 

25 A. Perhaps.

 

26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

27 you that page?

 

28 A. Yeah. 5385

 

1 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

2 THE COURT: Yes.

 

3 THE WITNESS: Yes.

 

4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you taken a look at

 

5 that page?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

8 you said?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. And what did you say?

 

11 A. I said I didn’t — I said I didn’t — I

 

12 don’t know, I just forgot. Sorry.

 

13 Q. You said you couldn’t tell if Mr. Jackson

 

14 ever took a shower with Mr. Jackson, right?

 

15 A. I couldn’t tell. Right. Right.

 

16 Q. You said you’d never seen Mr. Jackson in a

 

17 Jacuzzi, right?

 

18 A. In a Jacuzzi, like taking a bath in a

 

19 Jacuzzi, is that what you’re talking about?

 

20 Q. You said you had never seen Mr. Jackson in

 

21 his Jacuzzi?

 

22 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object as hearsay if it’s

 

23 not inconsistent with current testimony, also vague.

 

24 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You testified under oath

 

26 that you’d never seen Jordie Chandler get ready to

 

27 go to bed, right?

 

28 A. Perhaps. Like I said, I haven’t gone over 5386

 

1 that, and I’m sorry.

 

2 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

3 you that page?

 

4 A. Yeah.

 

5 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach?

 

6 THE COURT: Yes.

 

7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

8 look at that page?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

11 you said?

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. And what did you say about Mr. Chandler on

 

14 that issue?

 

15 A. That I didn’t see him ready to go to bed.

 

16 Q. And you also said you’d never seen him get

 

17 up in the morning, right?

 

18 A. Correct.

 

19 Q. The prosecutor asked you a couple of

 

20 questions about whether Mr. Jackson ever played with

 

21 a pet monkey in his bedroom, right?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. And I believe you said he had; is that

 

24 right?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. Okay. Was that chimpanzee’s name Max?

 

27 A. I believe so.

 

28 Q. When you had your deposition taken in the 5387

 

1 Chandler case, you said you’d never seen a

 

2 chimpanzee in his bedroom, right?

 

3 A. Perhaps.

 

4 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

5 you the deposition?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

8 THE COURT: Yes.

 

9 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

11 look at that page?

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

14 you said under oath at that deposition?

 

15 A. Yes.

 

16 Q. And what did you say?

 

17 A. I said, “No.”

 

18 Q. You said everybody plays with the chimpanzee

 

19 but you’ve never seen it in Mr. Jackson’s room,

 

20 right?

 

21 A. I believe so.

McManus worked at Neverland with Blanca Francia for nine months before Francia was terminated. McManus erroneously stated that Francia quit, when in fact she had been fired for a myriad of reasons, including theft:

22 Q. Okay. Did you work at Neverland when Blanca

 

23 Francia was working there?

 

24 A. Yes, I did.

 

25 Q. And how long did you work at Neverland when

 

26 Blanca Francia was also working there?

 

27 A. I would think maybe nine months.

 

28 Q. Did you share similar responsibilities with 5388

 

1 Blanca Francia?

 

2 A. Are you talking about Mr. Jackson’s room, or

 

3 just as a maid, as an aide?

 

4 Q. Let me rephrase it.

 

5 When you worked at Neverland, what did you

 

6 understand Blanca Francia’s responsibilities to be?

7 A. Blanca had Mr. Jackson’s room. She was his

 

8 personal maid. Although Blanca did help out with

 

9 the other things in the house or the guest units.

 

10 She kind of did a lot of everything.

 

11 Q. And when you worked at Neverland, what did

 

12 you understand your responsibilities to be?

 

13 A. Are you talking about the beginning or —

 

14 Q. Let’s start at the beginning, sure.

 

15 A. Okay. When I started, I was just a regular

 

16 maid, like everybody else. I was in the kitchen

 

17 helping wash dishes. Set tables. I mean, actually

 

18 a lot of different stuff. You know, cleaning the

 

19 guest quarters, the theater, everything, except Mr.

 

20 Jackson’s room.

 

21 Q. When did you begin to clean Mr. Jackson’s

 

22 room?

 

23 A. Actually, about nine months after my

 

24 employment, which was when Blanca quit.

 

25 Q. During the first nine months of your

 

26 employment when Blanca was working there, did you

 

27 ever go into Mr. Jackson’s room?

 

28 A. I can’t recall. 5389

 

1 Q. Do you recall ever having similar

 

2 responsibilities in Mr. Jackson’s house to Blanca

 

3 Francia?

 

4 A. At times, yeah, maybe.

 

5 Q. Were there times when she would clean Mr.

 

6 Jackson’s room on a given day, and on another day

 

7 you would clean Mr. Jackson’s room?

 

8 A. No. No.

 

9 Q. Okay. So you didn’t go near his room for

 

10 the first nine months you worked there, right?

 

11 A. Correct.

 

12 Q. During those nine months, did you and Blanca

 

13 Francia speak to each other?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. Did you speak to each other often during

 

16 those first nine months?

 

17 A. Yes.

 

18 Q. Did you ever learn that Blanca Francia had

 

19 sold a story to a television show?

 

20 A. Um, I heard she did.

 

21 Q. Did you hear she had sold a story for money

 

22 to Hard Copy?

 

23 A. I heard she did.

 

24 Q. Okay. Did you and Blanca ever discuss that

 

25 subject?

 

26 A. No.

 

McManus finally admitted that she was sure that Jackson had drawn that sketch of Elvis Presley, and she sold it to help pay for her lawsuit against Jackson. Unfortunately, just as Mesereau was in the middle of interrogating her about the theft of Jackson’s sketch, Judge Melville ended court for the day:

27 Q. How many — let me rephrase that.

 

28 You sold the sketch to a tabloid, right? 5390

 

1 A. Me personally?

 

2 Q. Yes.

 

3 A. Not me personally. Somebody else did.

 

4 Q. Well, they did it on your behalf, right?

 

5 A. Well, I would probably think so. I don’t —

 

6 yeah.

 

7 Q. Well, how did that person get the sketch?

 

8 A. Gary Morgan had gone to our attorney’s

 

9 office, Mr. Ring, Michael Ring, and that’s where he

 

10 got it, from there, at the attorney’s office.

 

11 Q. Did you bring the sketch to Mr. Ring’s law

 

12 office?

 

13 A. Yes, I did.

 

14 Q. Did you tell Mr. Ring, “I took this from

 

15 Neverland Ranch”?

 

16 A. No, I — actually, I don’t even — I don’t

 

17 even think Michael Ring — I don’t even think he saw

 

18 it. I don’t know if he saw it.

 

19 I told Gary Morgan that I got it out of the

 

20 trash. And I told him he could have it. So that’s

 

21 kind of where that went. And I don’t know what

 

22 Gary —

 

23 Q. Well, you didn’t really say he could have

 

24 it, you sold it?

 

25 A. Actually, I told him he could have it. And

 

26 he went and, I guess, sold it. And then I think he

 

27 said something in the tabloid, I don’t even know

 

28 which one it was, something that I had told him that 5391

 

1 I got it out of Mr. Jackson’s bedroom in the trash

 

2 or something to that — which was not correct.

 

3 Q. You’re telling the jury that Michael Jackson

 

4 did a sketch of Elvis Presley and you picked it out

 

5 of the trash?

 

6 A. I found it outside by the rec room in the

 

7 trash, in the trash. And when I found it there, I

 

8 thought, well, it was neat, so I took it. It was in

 

9 the trash.

 

10 Q. Is that one of the items the Santa Maria

 

11 jury found you had stolen?

 

12 A. Well, that’s what they —

 

13 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.

 

14 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you went to Mr. Ring,

 

16 did you tell this attorney where you got the sketch?

 

17 A. I don’t even recall if I — he probably

 

18 heard during the deposition that — because I think

 

19 I was questioned about that during the deposition,

 

20 and I did say that I found it in the trash. But I

 

21 don’t remember — I don’t remember telling him about

 

22 that myself. It must have been, you know, at the

 

23 deposition where I said I found it in the trash.

 

24 Q. Did you sell that sketch before you went to

 

25 trial in your lawsuit against Michael Jackson?

 

26 A. Before I went to trial?

 

27 Q. Yes.

 

28 A. You know what? I don’t even know — I 5392

 

1 really don’t know when that — the timing. I don’t

 

2 know if it was during the trial maybe, later during

 

3 the trial.

 

4 Q. Let me ask you this: You’ve told the jury

 

5 the money that came — excuse me. Let me rephrase

 

6 it.

 

7 You’ve told the jury the money that was

 

8 obtained in return for that sketch helped fund your

 

9 lawsuit against Mr. Jackson, right?

 

10 A. Correct.

 

11 Q. Did you know when you did that that Mr.

 

12 Jackson was alleging that you had stolen that

 

13 sketch?

 

14 A. Not that I know of.

 

15 Q. Let me ask you if this statement is

 

16 accurate: You took what you were accused of

 

17 stealing and sold it for money to fund your lawsuit

 

18 against Mr. Jackson, right?

 

19 A. I took what I found in the trash and gave it

 

20 to Gary Morgan and he sold it.

 

21 Q. And at some point you knew you were accused

 

22 of stealing that sketch of Elvis Presley, right?

 

23 A. I got accused of that, yes.

 

24 THE COURT: All right. Let’s end for today.

 

25 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)

To be continued: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/april-8th-2005-trial-analysis-adrian-mcmanus-cross-examination-and-phillip-lemarque-direct-cross-examination-part-1-of-3/

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5 Comments leave one →
  1. stacy2 permalink
    December 19, 2012 3:29 pm

    It’s funny to me how people keep saying MJ was guilty, when in fact, the real criminals were these prosecutors..

  2. nannorris permalink
    December 16, 2012 12:23 pm

    23 Q. Okay. And during those three hours, they

    24 went over what you were going to be asked today,

    25 right?

    26 A. Well, they went over my depo — Ron went

    27 over my deposition.
    ——————Here, is yet another witness ,in this case, on a first name basis with the prosecutors.’Ron”..
    I wonder how many other witnesses in other cases, were on such friendly terms , that they were permitted or possibly even encouraged to be on a first name basis with a prosecutor..
    Lets not even start to wonder where Starr and Gavin are spending their holidays, this year…Ron Zonen is stuck with those two for life
    Can you imagine how much both personally and professionally these prosecutors had riding on this high profile case to spend three hours reading parts of Ms McManus deposition to her, regarding her lawsuit with MJ , but not the Chandler one.
    It astounds me how supposedly forgetful these people with these mundane lives are,…. when they are involved with one of the most famous people in the world, never mind supposed criminal behavior.
    I caught someone passing counterfeit bills , almost 35 years ago and I still remember all the details ,,it was so out of the ordinary for me…But these people..they cant remember anything..pft..
    The jury is supposed to believe she lied in the Chandler deposition but told the truth to the tabloids …pft.

  3. December 15, 2012 2:53 pm

    Just one question to everyone that reads our blog: Would you ever forget or “not recall” owing someone $1,473,117.61? Does that sound about as ridiculous as you can get or is it just me.Especially if you only made $8.86 an hour!

    • nannorris permalink
      December 18, 2012 9:10 pm

      Over A a MILLION bucks and a 6 month trial with the biggest star on Earth..Yet I have read her testimony and she recall “brassing ” different things like faucets and banisters .Evidently cleaning and polishing is much more fascinating then all the rest of her claims

Trackbacks

  1. April 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Ralph Chacon (Direct & Cross Examination), Adrian McManus (Direct & Cross Examination) , Part 4 of 5 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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