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April 14th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Janet Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 1 of 3

May 4, 2013

Zonen’s direct examination of Janet Arvizo continued today, and he started by questioning Janet about the telephone conversations she had with Frank Cascio regarding the Brad Miller and DCFS interviews, and how she was tricked into returning to Neverland after her first “escape” by being told that Dieter Weizner and Ronald Konitzer had been fired:





19 Q. Miss Arvizo, good morning.


20 A. Good morning. How are you?


21 Q. When we left off yesterday, we had been


22 talking about the interview with Brad Miller that


23 took place at your then boyfriend’s house, Major


24 Jackson; is that correct?


25 A. Yes.


26 THE BAILIFF: Is your microphone on?


27 MR. ZONEN: Yes. Just need to be closer,


28 okay. 6144


1 Q. When was it that you returned back to


2 Neverland after that interview?


3 A. The next day.


4 Q. And did you return back with your children?


5 A. Yes, I did.


6 Q. Did you have an understanding about that


7 with Frank?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. When was that conversation? When did that


10 conversation take place?


11 A. Every day, many conversations. Even on that


12 day, the next day.


13 Q. Was there a conversation with Frank after


14 the interview with Brad Miller?


15 A. Yes. Even during.


16 Q. Even during?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. Did he call during that?


19 A. Yes, he did.


20 Q. And did you speak with him during that?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. All right. Tell me about the understanding


23 that you had with Frank about returning to


24 Neverland.


25 A. That the Germans had been fired, and — and


26 me and the kids were coming back, and we didn’t have


27 to do the video at that point.


28 Q. And that’s when you went back to Neverland; 6145


1 is that correct?


2 A. That’s when I went back.


3 Q. Now, there was going to be a DCFS interview;


4 is that correct?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. And that was going to be on the 20th?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. Tell us about the conversation that you had


9 with Frank about the rebuttal video.


10 A. Okay.


11 Q. And specifically in time after you had


12 learned that there was going to be an interview with


13 your children with DCFS.


14 A. First, he had told me, no, that he wasn’t


15 going to bring the two kids back. It evolved and


16 that made me very stressed. And then he says the


17 only way they’ll bring back the kids if I do the


18 video. And then it evolved into that I wouldn’t


19 have to leave out of — leave the country.


20 Q. You were already having conversations with


21 Frank about leaving the country?


22 A. Oh, yeah, that had been since —


23 Q. And had the location of where you were


24 supposed to go already been resolved?


25 A. Yes, Brazil.


26 Q. Brazil? All right. You then went back to


27 Neverland, you’ve already described. And then you


28 then turned around and went back to Los Angeles; is 6146


1 that correct?


2 A. Yes.

Next, Janet was asked to describe the shooting of the rebuttal video at the home of Hamid Moslehi; it was initially supposed to be shot at Neverland, but Janet refused to return there. When she arrived, she claims that there was a “script” that she and her kids were told to follow:

3 Q. Now, the rebuttal video took place where?


4 A. At Hamid’s house.


5 Q. Can you tell us when it took place?


6 A. The 19th until the 20th, like past


7 11-something at night, all the way into the a.m.


8 hours.


9 Q. The 19th of February being a Wednesday, I


10 think we’ve already established.


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. So it was late at night?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. Into the morning hours?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. Where did it take place?


17 A. In Hamid’s house.


18 Q. And Hamid is who?


19 A. His personal videographer.


20 Q. Had you met Hamid before that day?


21 A. I don’t think so.


22 Q. Do you know Hamid’s last name?


23 A. Moslehi.


24 Q. Moslehi?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. How did you get to Hamid’s house?


27 A. Vinnie drove me.


28 Q. Do you know where Hamid lives? 6147


1 A. And that’s the first time that I met Vinnie.


2 Q. That’s the first time you met Vinnie?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. Do you know where Hamid lives, or at least


5 lived at that time?


6 A. No. I just know we drove a long way, and I


7 met — they said something about San Fernando


8 Valley, but I really don’t know where he lives.


9 Q. Do you know how long it took to drive from


10 Jackson’s apartment to Hamid’s residence?


11 A. No, I couldn’t tell you.


12 Q. Could you describe Hamid’s residence to us?


13 A. Yeah, I can.


14 Q. Go ahead and do so.


15 A. He has a bedroom. Rest room. The dining


16 area, but he had — to me, I assumed it was a dining


17 area, but he had, like, some kind of table there,


18 and then this open area and the kitchen. But


19 everything’s, like, in — open.


20 Q. All right. Now, were your kids there?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. Were they there when you arrived?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. Do you know how your kids got there?


25 A. My understanding is that Hamid took them


26 there himself.


27 Q. All right. And you say somebody named


28 “Vinnie” took you; is that right? 6148


1 A. Yes.


2 Q. Do you know Vinnie’s last name?


3 A. Amen.


4 Q. A-m-e-n?


5 A. Yes. Yeah.


6 Q. All right. You had never met Vinnie before?


7 A. No.


8 Q. Did he introduce himself to you in some


9 fashion?


10 A. Well, actually, Frank did the introduction


11 before.


12 Q. Frank did the introduction in person?


13 A. No, no, no. No. Frank, over the phone,


14 told me about Vinnie.


15 Q. All right.


16 A. And then Vinnie had shown up.


17 Q. So you knew in advance somebody named


18 “Vinnie” was coming?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. Did Frank tell you who Vinnie was?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. What did he say about Vinnie?


23 A. That he’s one of Michael’s people.


24 Q. Did he arrive with anybody else or by


25 himself?


26 A. By himself.


27 Q. Do you know approximately what time it was?


28 A. It was about — I don’t know. My best 6149


1 estimate, probably about 11:00.


2 Q. Do you know why this video was done at


3 Hamid’s house in the San Fernando Valley?


4 A. Yeah. I didn’t want to go back to


5 Neverland.


6 Q. Did you say that to somebody?


7 A. Yes, I said it to Frank.


8 Q. All right. Now, at the video at Hamid’s


9 house, tell us who else was present.


10 A. Oh. In Hamid’s house, Brad Miller’s there,


11 on top of the film crew, Hamid, Vinnie, and Frank


12 continuously on the telephone.


13 Q. All right. So Miller was there, Brad


14 Miller?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. Was he already there when you arrived?


17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Hamid, I assume, was already there?


19 A. Yes. My kids.


20 Q. Vinnie came with you?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. Your three kids?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. Anybody else that you can recall?


25 A. Yeah.


26 Q. Who else?


27 A. Christian. The one who’s asking the


28 scripted questions. 6150


1 Q. Christian was there?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. Were either of the Germans there?


4 A. No. No Germans.


5 Q. But there were scripted questions?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. Were these questions that you had already


8 seen?


9 A. Yes.


10 Q. And who had shown them to you?


11 A. Dieter.


12 Q. And when was that?


13 A. In Neverland.


14 Q. Was that prior to your leaving Neverland?


15 A. Yes. Prior to leaving with Jesus. And it


16 continued afterwards with Frank on the phone.


17 Q. So Frank went over the questions as well?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. What essentially was it that they wanted you


20 to say?


21 A. Basically he’s a — you know, a father


22 figure, everything in an answer to this Bashir


23 thing.


24 Q. All right. But what specifically was it


25 that they asked you to say?


26 MR. MESEREAU: I’m going to object to the


27 word “they” as vague.


28 THE COURT: Just a moment, please. 6151


1 Sustained.


2 MR. ZONEN: I’m sorry, I didn’t hear.


3 THE COURT: The word “they.”


4 MR. ZONEN: Oh, yes, that’s fine.

Here is what Janet claimed she was told to say during the rebuttal video by Frank Cascio. Notice that when she was asked by Zonen what she would have said if she had not been told what to say, Janet claimed that she still would have said “nice things”!

Janet was also asked about the alleged head licking incident on the flight back to Neverland, but Mesereau’s objection was sustained by Judge Melville. This is one question I would have loved to hear Janet answer! The head licking story will be thoroughly debunked later on in the trial:

5 Q. Let’s start with Frank. Tell us what


6 exactly it was that Frank wanted you to say in this


7 video.


8 A. What I got in trouble for or what I ended up


9 actually saying?


10 Q. No, no. Tell us, in advance of doing this


11 video, what was it that Frank wanted you to say on


12 this video?


13 A. That he’s a wonderful father.


14 Q. Did he use the word “father”?


15 A. Yes. Basically, in summary, that he’s a


16 wonderful father.


17 Q. Now, with regard — in regard to his own


18 children or in regards to your children?


19 A. To my children.


20 Q. Did you feel that that statement was


21 accurate?


22 A. I was confused. I was confused, and I was


23 sad at that moment.


24 Q. What was your confusion?


25 A. Well, because I — I — as things evolved,


26 I ended up finding out who were the bad guys.


27 Q. I’m asking you, now that you had this


28 conversation with Frank – 6152


1 A. I was confused with him, because I still


2 believed his initial meeting in Miami. But I was


3 still — and I was sad and confused as to why


4 everything was happening. I didn’t know why.


5 Q. Did you, in fact, say on the video that you


6 thought he was a father figure to your children?


7 A. I think so. Many times. In different ways.


8 Q. Did you mean it when you said it?


9 A. I was confused. I was sad. So basically I


10 was acting.


11 Q. What would you have been willing to say on


12 his behalf at that time if you had not been given a


13 script?


14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; calls for


15 speculation.


16 MR. ZONEN: Relevant for her state of mind.


17 THE COURT: Overruled.


18 You may answer.


19 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you understand the


20 question?


21 A. Yes. Nice things.


22 Q. Nice things like what?


23 A. Nice things of everything; that I believed


24 him in the initial meeting that he had told me in


25 Miami.


26 Q. Up to this point, had you had any reason to


27 be concerned about Mr. Jackson?


28 A. No. I was just sad and confused. 6153


1 Q. The incident that you saw on the plane


2 returning —


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. — him licking Gavin —


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. — was that something that you were thinking


7 about at the time of this video?


8 A. No, I —


9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


10 THE WITNESS: I thought it was —


11 THE COURT: Sustained.


12 Just a moment.


13 The answer is in, but I’ll sustain the


14 objection. Next question.


15 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What was your thought process


16 with regards to that licking incident?


17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;


18 foundation.


19 THE COURT: Based on her answer to the


20 question that I sustained the objection to, I’ll


21 sustain this objection.


22 MR. ZONEN: All right.


23 Q. Did you have any concerns about Mr. Jackson


24 at all during the course of that video?


25 A. I said I was confused and I was sad, and


26 that’s it. And the prior incident on the airplane,


27 that had already been out of my mind.

Next, Zonen questioned Janet about the preparations he made for the video, and her conversations with Jackson’s attorney Vicky Poderevski, who suggested that she be present during the DCFS interview. Janet also expressed concerns that her children would be taken away from her, based on what Vicki told her, and this motivated Janet to participate in the interview.

28 Q. Did they talk to you about how you would 6154


1 dress for this video, or makeup, or anything like


2 that?


3 A. No.


4 Q. Did you do all that on your own?


5 A. No. Right there, inside the — when I had


6 arrived there, Vinnie had told me to go ahead and


7 put some more on, and — but Frank — and that was


8 per Frank’s instructions to Vinnie.


9 Q. Hold on a second.


10 A. Because Vinnie had given him like an update


11 to how I looked.


12 Q. Now, did somebody talk to you in advance of


13 your going to Hamid’s house —


14 A. Yes, yes, at Jay’s house.


15 Q. You have to let me finish the question.


16 A. Oh, okay.


17 Q. Did somebody talk to you in advance of your


18 arrival at Hamid’s as to how you should dress, how


19 you should wear your hair, or how you should wear


20 makeup?


21 A. To put on makeup, because usually I don’t


22 put on makeup.


23 Q. And who was it who talked to you about that?


24 A. Frank.


25 Q. And that was over the telephone?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Did you have any further discussion with


28 anybody at Hamid’s house about makeup or hair or 6155


1 dress?


2 A. Well, Vinnie had given Frank an update as to


3 how I was. And then Vinnie, per Frank’s


4 instructions, told me to put some more on.


5 Q. Some more what?


6 A. Makeup.


7 Q. How about clothing, who made the decision as


8 to what clothing you would wear?


9 A. Nobody.


10 Q. You made that decision on your own?


11 A. I just — yeah, yeah.


12 Q. Do you know what time that video started?


13 A. I think it was about — I think it was about


14 3:00 a.m. I’m not sure.


15 Q. Do you know what time it was that you


16 arrived at Hamid’s house?

17 A. No. It was already the a.m. hours.


18 Q. What time did you — what time was your


19 meeting with the Department of Child & Family


20 Services?


21 A. It was scheduled at 9:00, and — but it


22 started around 10:00.


23 Q. And you’re talking about the next morning?


24 A. Yeah. And I hadn’t slept all night.


25 Q. All right. The — the video then ended at


26 approximately what time?


27 A. I wouldn’t be able to tell you. I wouldn’t


28 be — but it was definitely — it was already 6156


1 morning, a.m. hours.


2 Q. Did you have any sleep at all that night?


3 A. Zero. Zero sleep.


4 Q. Before the video, did you have a


5 conversation with anybody over the telephone?


6 A. Before the video?


7 Q. Yes.


8 A. Yeah.


9 Q. With whom?


10 A. With Vicky Poderevski.


11 Q. How — tell me how that came about.


12 A. Brad Miller dialed the phone, his private


13 investigator. And he handed it to me, and this


14 woman was on the phone.


15 Q. Did he tell you in advance that he was


16 dialing that number?


17 A. No.


18 Q. Did he tell you in advance who he was


19 calling?


20 A. No. And that was scary.


21 Q. When he — so the first time you knew you


22 were getting on the phone with somebody is when he


23 handed you the phone?


24 A. Yeah, he dialed the number and handed it to


25 me.


26 Q. Did he tell you who the person was?


27 A. No. Zero.


28 Q. Or why he wanted you to talk to this person? 6157


1 A. No.


2 Q. And the person at the other end of the line


3 identified herself as who?


4 A. Vicky Poderevski, an attorney for Michael


5 Jackson and Geragos.


6 Q. And what did she tell you?


7 A. I came to find out per the investigation


8 now, but this is what they told me then.


9 Q. I’m asking you what you understood at the


10 time —


11 A. Okay.


12 Q. — not what you’ve learned since.


13 A. Okay.


14 Q. All right? At the time of this


15 conversation, what did Miss Poderevski tell you?


16 A. That she was an attorney for Michael Jackson


17 and Geragos.


18 Q. And what did she recommend to you?


19 A. She recommended that she be present at the


20 CPS meeting.


21 Q. And what did you say?


22 A. “No.”


23 Q. Did she talk to you about who would pay her


24 bill at all?


25 A. No.


26 Q. Was there any discussion about payment?


27 A. No.


28 Q. Why did you say no, if she was offering her 6158


1 services?


2 A. Because I — in the past, I had spoken to,


3 not these same exact people, but a different


4 department — same department but different group of


5 people, and different city. And they were nice


6 people.


7 Q. And that was in —


8 A. Actually, it was a person. Nice person.


9 Q. When was that?


10 A. That was when David had been arrested. They


11 had sent someone from that department. But totally


12 different city. Totally different building.


13 Q. All right. But your experience with them


14 was what at the time?


15 A. It was positive. And you know what I liked


16 about her, is that she was concerned about my kids,


17 not me.


18 Q. You’re talking about the prior experience?


19 A. The prior one.


20 Q. All right. Did you have concerns about the


21 meeting the next morning?


22 A. Yes, I did.


23 Q. What were your concerns?


24 A. That my children were going to be taken away


25 from me.


26 Q. Did somebody tell you that?


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. Who? 6159


1 A. Vicky.


2 Q. Did you, in fact, have somebody present with


3 you at that time?


4 A. At the CPS meeting?


5 Q. Yes.


6 A. Not by my choice.


7 Q. Now, who is it that took you to the meeting


8 with the Department of Child & Family Services?


9 A. Vinnie. Vinnie took my children and me back


10 to Jay’s.


11 Q. Was anybody else present during that time?


12 A. No.


13 Q. I mean in the car coming back.


14 A. No.


15 Q. Just Vinnie, you and your children?


16 A. Yeah, and then another car following us.


17 Q. All right.


18 A. There was always —


19 Q. Do you know approximately what time in the


20 morning it was you arrived back at Jay’s house?


21 A. I think it was — it was about one hour


22 prior to Jay going to work.


23 Q. So Jay was still there when you arrived?


24 A. Yeah.


25 Q. Had you told Jay in advance that there was


26 going to be that meeting at his house?


27 A. I think so.


28 Q. Did Jay stay for that meeting? 6160


1 A. No.

After shooting the rebuttal video way into the wee hours of the night, Janet and her kids were driven to Jay Jackson’s apartment by Vinnie Amen, and arrived there at around 6am. Aja Pryor and the DCFS social workers arrived (separately) at around 10am.

2 Q. Tell us, at the point that everybody arrived


3 at the apartment, how many people did you have at


4 the apartment?


5 A. Vinnie, me, the children, and then that —


6 those people that were following us.


7 Q. Excuse me.


8 A. But they —


9 Q. I’m sorry, do that one more time for me. I


10 didn’t hear. Who was there?


11 A. Me, Vinnie and the children, and those


12 people that were following us.


13 Q. You, Vinnie, the children, the people in the


14 other car?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. Was it just one other car?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. At some point in time, did you see who those


19 people were —


20 A. No.


21 Q. — or who they were?


22 A. No.


23 Q. Who actually went into the apartment with


24 you?


25 A. Vinnie.


26 Q. Was Aja there at that time?


27 A. In — in the meeting? Are we talking about


28 the meeting now? 6161


1 Q. We’re at Jay’s house now.


2 A. Okay.


3 Q. We’ve left Hamid’s house, all right?


4 A. Okay.


5 Q. And I think you said you arrived about an


6 hour before Jay went to work.


7 A. Yes. And my children —


8 Q. Can you tell us what time that was, if you


9 can recall?


10 A. I don’t know. The best I can recall is


11 maybe 5:00 or 6:00 a.m. That’s the best — and


12 that’s just an estimate.


13 Q. The people who were in the other car, did


14 they go into the apartment with you?


15 A. No. No.


16 Q. At what time did the people from the


17 Department of Child Care Services arrive, Child


18 Family Services?


19 A. Okay. The meeting was scheduled for about


20 9:00, but it didn’t start until about 10:00. So I

21 don’t know. It’s within that time bracket,


22 because — can I — can I continue?


23 Q. Let me — I’ll go ahead and ask.


24 A. Okay.


25 Q. Tell us who was there at the time that the


26 workers from the Department of Child Family Services


27 arrived.


28 A. Before the CPS people arrived? 6162


1 Q. Yes, before. Just before.


2 A. Okay. I know him as CPS, DCFS, different


3 names. But they’re all the same people to me, okay?


4 Asaf had arrived before those three ladies


5 did, before Aja did.


6 Q. And Aja?


7 A. Yes. Aja arrived just about the same time


8 as the ladies did.


9 Q. Was Vinnie still there?


10 A. Vinnie, no, no.


11 Q. Vinnie had left?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. So he wasn’t in the apartment?


14 A. No. But he was within the area, now it’s my


15 understanding.


16 Q. But you didn’t see him in the apartment?


17 A. No, I didn’t.


18 Q. Was Asaf in the apartment?


19 A. Asaf was inside the apartment way before the


20 CPS people were.


21 Q. Did Aja arrive?


22 A. It’s almost as if Vinnie went out, Asaf came


23 in, like that.


24 Q. All right. How did Aja happen to be there?


25 A. Per Frank’s instruction, it was in — per


26 my — my suggestion — his suggestion, my


27 suggestion, it was kind of like a compromise.


28 Q. Well, did you call Aja? 6163


1 A. Yes, I did.


2 Q. The “Aja” we’re referring to is Chris


3 Tucker’s girlfriend; is that right?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. And your relationship with her up to that


6 point you would describe as how?


7 A. Real nice.


8 Q. Why did you want her to be there?


9 A. Well, it was — like I said, it was kind of


10 like a compromise going back and forth with Frank,


11 until finally, I had to pick someone that he


12 approved of, and he approved of Aja.


13 Q. Why were you picking anybody, picking


14 somebody to do what?


15 A. Because Frank wanted an independent person


16 there, an independent person, because that’s per how


17 they use their choreography, they pull in


18 unsuspecting people until they stumble upon it.


19 Q. Why did you want Aja there?


20 A. I trusted her.


21 Q. Why did you want anybody there?


22 A. I was okay meeting with the CPS people by


23 myself, but it was per Frank’s instructions, and


24 then it ended up being a back-and-forth compromise


25 that he approved of her.


26 Q. Did Frank tell you who he wanted to be


27 present during this meeting?


28 A. No. He suggested Chris’s girlfriend, and 6164


1 then it went back and forth, and I — I — go ahead.


2 Q. “Chris’s girlfriend” being Aja?


3 A. Yes. And so I figured it would be okay. So


4 there was a period of compromising who.


5 Q. Is Asaf somebody you knew prior to that day?


6 A. No.


7 Q. That was the first time you met him?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Do you know Asaf’s last name?


10 A. No. I never learned it.


11 Q. Did you see him again after that day?


12 A. Asaf?


13 Q. Asaf.


14 A. I — I think — I think I did see him


15 briefly. I don’t remember clearly, but I think it


16 was a period between — when I was in the Calabasas


17 area. And that’s briefly. I can’t remember that.


18 That’s my best — I think that was the only other


19 time.

Janet goes on to describe the threats that she allegedly received from Jackson’s security guard Asaf to say positive praises about Jackson, and who also demanded that she tape record her interview with the DCFS. Janet also described the video of Gavin and Jackson from 2000, where they walked around Neverland together.

18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, if you could


19 face the screen and tell us if that’s, in fact,


20 Asaf.


21 A. That’s Asaf.


22 Q. Did Asaf tell you who he was?


23 A. Michael’s security.


24 Q. Did you have a conversation with Asaf at


25 some point that morning before the arrival of the


26 workers from the Department of Child & Family


27 Services?


28 A. Yes. 6166


1 Q. And did he give you any particular


2 instructions?


3 A. Yes. To play — he was verifying that I was


4 going to play the vid — the DVD. He told me that


5 if I put Michael in a bad light, that they know


6 where my parents live. He wanted to hear the


7 allegations read in front of him.


8 Let me see. What else?


9 He was verifying that I would do — carry


10 out Carrie — Vicky’s instructions and Frank’s


11 instructions.


12 Q. All right. You mentioned a DVD, play a DVD.


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. What was that?


15 A. That’s of Michael and Gavin.


16 Q. Had you ever seen that DVD before?


17 A. No. Prior to the Miami, never.


18 Q. Did you know that that DVD had actually been


19 prepared?


20 A. No.


21 Q. All right. Did you see it for the first


22 time?


23 A. For the first time in Miami.


24 Q. You saw it in Miami.


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. So they showed it to you there?


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. What was the circumstance of their showing 6167


1 you that DVD in Miami?


2 A. I don’t know. I don’t know.


3 Q. Well —


4 A. Evvy — Evvy had given it to Gary, and Gary


5 had given it to Gavin while we were still at Chris’s


6 house.


7 Q. All right. And did they give any


8 instructions at that time as to what to do with it?


9 A. No, none.


10 Q. Now, that DVD then went to Miami?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. And you saw it for the first time in Miami?


13 A. I saw it, like, complete in Miami, but a


14 little bit at Chris’s house.


15 Q. Explain to us the content of that DVD.


16 A. It’s of my son when he’s barely being ill,


17 and Michael and Star.


18 Q. The two of them walking together?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. Is Star in it on occasion?


21 A. Yes. Star’s in there for a little bit.


22 Q. Now, did you keep that DVD from Miami?


23 A. Yes, I did.


24 Q. And did you have it in your possession?


25 A. Yes, I did.


26 Q. All right. Now, on the occasion of the


27 visit from the Department of Child & Family


28 Services, did you play that DVD to them? 6168


1 A. Yes, I did.


2 Q. Whose idea was it to do that?


3 A. Asaf, but he was verifying with Frank and


4 Vicky had gave me instructions to do. But mostly


5 Frank.


6 Q. But you had that DVD in your possession?


7 A. Yes, I did. And this is as best as I can


8 remember.


9 Q. That’s okay.


10 Did somebody give you a tape-recorder during


11 this interview?


12 A. Oh, yeah.


13 Q. Who was that?


14 A. Asaf. But I didn’t know that he had a


15 tape-recorder until after.


16 Q. Well, tell me what the circumstances were


17 with the tape-recorder. What happened with that?


18 A. Okay. When Asaf found out he was being


19 kicked out, that’s when he told me, “Can I talk to


20 you for a second?”

21 And he pulled me into Jay’s bedroom. And


22 then he gave me — he gave me instructions, but it


23 was already on, it was already working. What I was


24 trying to find out was that I didn’t have to push


25 anything because it was already working. He gave me


26 instructions about to, “Take her here. Talk to her


27 here. Leave it here.”


28 And you could also hear in there that that 6169


1 period of week was very stressful for me, because


2 Karen had also — they — the CPS knew that I was —


3 Q. Let’s back up a little bit now.


4 A. Okay.


5 Q. Before Asaf talked to you about a


6 tape-recorder —


7 A. Uh-huh.


8 Q. — did you have a discussion with anybody


9 among the Department of Child and Family Care


10 Services about having other people present during


11 this interview?


12 A. Yes, and I was referring that to Aja.


13 Q. Who did you ask to have present in the


14 interview?


15 A. Aja.


16 Q. Did you ask to have Asaf present?


17 A. No. Only Aja. I trust Aja.


18 Q. Did Asaf ask you to ask them to allow him to


19 remain?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Did you ask them to allow Asaf to remain?


22 A. No. I was — hopefully I was — I was


23 hoping that the CPS would make that call so Asaf


24 wouldn’t hear it come from my mouth. So I was


25 referring to Aja, but I had to, per Asaf’s order.


26 Q. Did you know that there was a tape-recorder


27 in the room at the time —


28 A. No. 6170


1 Q. Hold on. Hold on. Listen to the question.


2 Did you know that there was a tape-recorder


3 in the room prior to your discussion with the social


4 workers about who would be present during the


5 interview?


6 A. No.


7 Q. At some point in time, did somebody tell you


8 from the social workers who would be allowed to be


9 present during the interview?


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. All right. And what was that resolution?


12 Who was allowed to be present?


13 A. Just me and the children.


14 Q. Not Aja?


15 A. Not Aja.


16 Q. Not Asaf?


17 A. Not Asaf and not the baby.


18 Q. All right. Tell us when it was that Asaf


19 then had a conversation with you about a


20 tape-recorder.


21 A. When — after that.


22 Q. All right. Now, what exactly did Asaf say


23 to you? What did he do?


24 A. “Can I talk to you for a second?” And told


25 me that — told me that it was working, that I


26 didn’t have to push anything. Told me to talk —


27 to, you know, in the room, “Leave it here. Talk to


28 her here. Take it here.” 6171


1 And you could also hear in there when I


2 was — I got very scared when I thought the DVD of


3 Gavin and Michael were missing. Because that was


4 one of the orders that I had to do.


5 Q. Did he then hand you a tape-recorder?


6 A. Yes, he did, after he said, “Can I talk to


7 you for a second?”


8 Q. Now, what did you do with this


9 tape-recorder?


10 A. He put it on the desk. And I just went


11 ahead like — that was — I just played along with


12 him, “Yeah, yeah, sure, uh-huh.” You know,


13 basically that kind of behavior.


14 Q. What was your intent —


15 A. But I didn’t say those words. My


16 behavior — that was my behavior.


17 Q. At the time that he gave you the


18 tape-recorder, what did he ask you to do with it, in


19 terms of where to keep it, where to place it?


20 A. He placed it on the desk area.


21 Q. Okay.


22 A. Just to, “Leave it here. Talk to her here.


23 Take her here.” Because Karen had said she was


24 going to talk to each one of us individually, so he


25 assumed that it was going to be in the bedroom.


26 And he also — you know.


27 Q. “Karen” being one of the social workers?


28 A. Yes, Karen was the supervisor. 6172


1 Q. Do you know her last name?


2 A. Karen Walker.


3 Q. Did you have any concerns about the


4 tape-recorder?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. What were your concerns?


7 A. That these people are going to be illegally


8 taped.


9 Q. Did you think there was an illegality


10 problem?


11 A. Yes, because she had just said, “This is


12 confidential.”


13 Q. All right.


14 A. And I wasn’t aware at that time that he had


15 the tape-recorder.


16 Q. All right. Now, did everybody finally leave


17 the room, in terms of Aja and Asaf?


18 A. Okay. Asaf didn’t leave until I had came


19 out of the rest room. I thought he had already — I


20 thought he had already gone. So you could even hear


21 me on the tape-recorder, because I was going to tell


22 the lady there — I figured he had already gone. So


23 I — I started telling her, because the lady — one


24 of the women had pulled me — well, not pulled me,


25 was talking to me also in the area where the


26 tape-recorder was. And so I’m — I was going to


27 start to tell her, and then there’s Asaf right


28 there. And I just — you can hear my — my voice. 6173


1 Q. Okay. Did Asaf tell you anything about any


2 other tape-recorders?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. What did he say?


5 A. After I turned it off, came out of the rest


6 room, and then he was still — Jay’s apartment, it


7 was very long. It was like an apartment house, but


8 it’s only one bedroom.


9 So he was in a distance where a wall was


10 covering, but he can hear.


11 Q. Who’s “he”?


12 A. Asaf. Asaf can hear.


13 And so that’s when he called me over. And


14 at this point he told me that there’s another one in


15 the room. So I didn’t know whether it was a


16 tape-recorder or a monitoring device. I didn’t know


17 what it was. But there was certainly another one in


18 the room.

During the interview with the three social workers, Janet and the kids were questioned together the entire time. Janet also turned off the tape recorder after Aja left the room, prior to the start of the interview, because she knew that it was illegal to tape record someone without their permission (but she had absolutely no problem scamming JC Penney or falsely accusing Michael Jackson!)

19 Q. When the interview finally began, who was


20 present in the interview room?


21 A. When — the three ladies, me and my


22 children.


23 Q. And were all of you interviewed together?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. At any time did they separate you from the


26 children or each of the children from each other?


27 A. No. No. I carried out Vicky’s


28 instructions. 6174


1 Q. And what were those instructions?


2 A. Not to let the children be separated,


3 interviewed separately. Ask what are my rights,


4 what are the children’s rights. Have the


5 allegations read before — before the meeting.


6 Just, you know, different things like that.


7 Q. Did you play or record the entire


8 conversation?


9 A. Me?


10 Q. Yes.


11 A. No, I turned it off.


12 Q. You turned it off when?


13 A. I turned it off when I thought he had


14 already gone, and he was there.


15 Q. Why did you turn it off?


16 A. Because it’s illegal to tape people without


17 them knowing.


18 Q. At some subsequent time, did you have an


19 opportunity to listen to a recording that you


20 believed to be that recording?


21 A. There?


22 Q. Let me try that one more time.

23 A. Okay.


24 Q. At some later time —


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. — sometime after the meeting —


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. — did you have an opportunity to listen to 6175


1 a tape-recording?


2 A. Yes. At the grand jury, the D.A.’s Office,


3 right before the grand jury, I was like — it was


4 like hours before, hours. And they only had two


5 minutes — about two minutes’ worth of that DCFS


6 tape. And I told them, you know, “There’s more.


7 There’s more to this tape.”


8 So he — so the D.A.’s Office had — had me


9 explain to them how much more there was. And I


10 said, “Because that’s not all of it. There’s still


11 more.”


12 Q. All right.


13 A. I was monitored continuously by those


14 people.


15 Q. The first tape that you listened to at the


16 time of the grand jury was a tape from what?


17 A. From a — I don’t know whether it’s a media


18 report, area, I don’t know what you properly call


19 the show. Abrams Report.


20 Q. Television?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. Something that had played on television?


23 A. Yes. Yes.


24 Q. And after having listened to that, what was


25 your view of whether or not that was the entirety of


26 the conversation?


27 A. That was not its entirety.


28 Q. Since then, have you had an opportunity to 6176


1 listen to another tape?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. What is your opinion about that other tape?


4 A. This one is accurate.


5 Q. Up until the point where you turned it off?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. Okay. Well, through the time, the entirety


8 of the tape?


9 A. Yes. And he turned it on when the CPS


10 people arrived. Not prior.


11 Q. Okay. Can you make out the different voices


12 in this tape?


13 A. Yes, I can.


14 Q. And how many different voices are there in


15 this tape?


16 A. The three ladies from Child Protective


17 Services. Aja. And my three children. You kind of


18 can hear the baby a little bit. That’s their —


19 he’s a toddler. And you can hear Asaf. You can


20 hear him say he’s Michael’s security.


21 Q. And during the course of that time, did you


22 play the video that they had asked you to play?


23 A. Yes, I did. And I got scared, because I


24 thought — I thought it went missing. I thought I


25 misplaced it, so I got really scared because that


26 was one of the instructions.


27 Q. All right. Now, did you say positive things


28 about Michael Jackson? 6177


1 A. Yeah, I had to. At this point now, it’s


2 a — now it’s a have-to. Because everything’s


3 evolving. And he had said that — to put Michael —


4 don’t say anything that would put Michael in a bad


5 light, because they knew where my parents lived, he


6 knew where my parents lived. And this is prior to


7 the tape-recording.


8 Q. Miss Arvizo, did you know why Child


9 Protective Services were at your house, those social


10 workers?


11 A. No, I did not know why. And they didn’t


12 even want to tell me on the phone when I was trying


13 to talk to them.


14 Q. At some point in time after they arrived,


15 did they explain why they were there?


16 A. They didn’t explain it until I was alone


17 with the children.


18 Q. Did Miss Poderevski, in her conversation


19 with you, tell you why, her opinion, they were


20 there?


21 A. No. She just told me to — to basically


22 drive it home for him being a good father.

Zonen played portions of the tape for the jury, and questioned Janet about those particular segments:

23 MR. ZONEN: Thank you. We’re going to play


24 it at this time.


25 Your Honor, we have marked for


26 identification a CD, a tape-recording, No. 810,


27 8-1-0, and we would like to play that at this time.


28 THE COURT: Do you have a transcript of 6178


1 that?


2 MR. ZONEN: We do. And we’ll — I have it


3 here, but we’ll have a copy for the Court before the


4 session is over today, along with the one from


5 yesterday that I promised you.


6 THE COURT: How long is the tape?


7 MR. ZONEN: I’m sorry?


8 THE COURT: How long is it?


9 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: 19 minutes.


10 MR. ZONEN: 19 minutes, Your Honor.


11 May we begin?


12 THE COURT: Yes.


13 THE WITNESS: And this is all the best that


14 I can remember.


15 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff’s


16 Exhibit No. 810, was played for the Court and jury.)


17 MR ZONEN: We’re pausing it a moment.


18 Q. Miss Arvizo, what is the music that we’re


19 hearing right now?


20 A. That is from the DVD, the background music


21 to the DVD that Michael and Gavin were in, and a


22 little bit of Star was in there.


23 Q. This goes for approximately what, six


24 minutes?


25 A. I think so.


26 MR. ZONEN: All right. Let’s go ahead.


27 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff’s


28 Exhibit No. 810, was played for the Court and jury.) 6179


1 MR. ZONEN: We’re stopping the tape


2 momentarily.


3 Q. Miss Arvizo, can you tell us what that sound


4 was that we were hearing just prior to stopping this


5 tape; do you know?


6 A. No, I don’t know. I don’t know.


7 Q. Do you have a recollection of that sound


8 from the time of this event itself?


9 A. No, I don’t. But it sounds like tape. But


10 I don’t know.


11 Q. Was that taped to you at any time?


12 A. No.


13 Q. Were you able to see the tape-recorder prior


14 to him giving it to you, before he gave it to you?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. Where was it?


17 A. The best I can remember, he took something


18 out of his pocket, so I don’t know.


19 Q. Do you remember what he was wearing at the


20 time?


21 A. Yeah.


22 Q. We’re talking about Asaf, right?


23 A. Blue shirt.


24 Q. He had a shirt?


25 A. Blue shirt, long-sleeved, collar.


26 Q. Did he have a jacket on at all?


27 A. No, just a blue shirt.


28 Q. And prior to him taking it out, did you see 6180


1 that tape-recorder?


2 A. No. So I don’t know if he — you know,


3 where.


4 Q. There was a single man’s voice, a deep


5 voice, that came on just before we turned off the


6 tape.


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. Who was that?


9 A. Asaf.


10 Q. Was he the only male in that room at that


11 time?


12 A. He was the only male. And plus my two boys


13 and plus the toddler, Aja’s baby.


14 Q. He was the only adult male in the room at


15 the time?


16 A. Yes, he was the only adult male.


17 MR. ZONEN: Let’s go ahead and resume.


18 (Whereupon, a portion of a CD, Plaintiff’s


19 Exhibit No. 810, was played for the Court and jury.)


20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, the tape just


21 ended?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. How did it end?


24 A. I turned it off.


25 Q. We heard some rustling sound within the last


26 couple of minutes before it ended.

27 A. I was trying to figure out — it was like


28 some very high-tech thing, and I couldn’t figure out 6181


1 where the “off” was. And I — I tried my best. And


2 so I — that — and even when I turned it off, I was


3 unsure that I had turned it off. So what I did, I


4 put it inside a closet and I put two towels


5 completely covering it.


6 Q. In what room were you at the time you did


7 that?


8 A. In the bedroom.


9 Q. All right. And where were the workers at


10 this time?


11 A. They were in the — okay. Like I said,


12 Jay’s apartment was — even though it’s a


13 one-bedroom apartment, they call it apartment


14 houses. It’s long.


15 So they were way over there in the living


16 room. And that’s when — afterwards Asaf was still


17 in there. He was there present with the CPS people.


18 Q. All right. At the time that you turned off


19 the tape-recorder, were the CPS workers in the same


20 room with you?


21 A. Me? No.


22 Q. Did you have to move the tape-recorder to a


23 different room before you turned it off?


24 A. No, it was all within the bedroom.


25 Q. And was the interview going to be held in


26 the living room or in the bedroom?


27 A. Asaf had assumed that it was going to be in


28 the bedroom, and they said to, “Take her here. Talk 6182


1 to her here. Leave it here.”


2 Q. So at one point prior to this, you asked to


3 go to the rest room; is that correct?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. Did you actually go to the rest room?


6 A. No, I was just pretending I was in there.


7 Q. And the purpose for that was what?


8 A. So — to create some — some — so I can


9 have some privacy so I could turn off the tape.


10 Q. That is what you wanted to do?


11 A. That’s what I wanted.


12 Q. Now, in the course of this interview, they


13 represented that this was going to be a completely


14 confidential interview; is that right?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. And that none of these records or documents


17 would become public; is that correct?


18 A. Exactly.


19 Q. And, in fact, what did happen with these


20 documents?


21 A. All this stuff got leaked.


22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.


23 THE WITNESS: All of it.


24 THE COURT: Sustained.


25 MR. ZONEN: I’ll lay the foundation.


26 Q. Did you see any of these records in the


27 public forum at some subsequent time?


28 A. Yes. Every single sheet of paper that was 6183


1 ever created from my children, about my children or


2 me from the DCFS people, was all over.


3 Q. All over where?


4 A. All over the world.


5 Q. On television?


6 A. On television. Internet. Every single


7 place.


8 Q. How long after this interview was it that


9 that happened?


10 A. Right after he was arrested.


11 Q. “He” being Mr. Jackson?


12 A. Michael. Mr. Jackson.


13 Q. How long did this interview go on after you


14 turned off the tape-recording?


15 A. After I had turned off — I used the rest


16 room. Turned off the tape-recorder. And then I got


17 extremely frightened, because I saw him still there


18 with the CPS people. And that’s when he called me


19 over.


20 And I went over there, the separate area out


21 of the bedroom, and that’s when he had told me that


22 he had placed another one — the ladies are still


23 distracted with my kids. And so that’s when he had


24 talked to me and told me about that there was


25 another one there. And I’m like, “Where?” I had


26 been in the rest room. “Where.”


27 Q. Did he tell you?


28 A. No, he didn’t tell me where this one was at. 6184


1 Q. Did he tell you whether it was open or


2 hidden? Did he say anything about it?


3 A. No.


4 Q. Do you know whether or not there was a


5 second one in that room?


6 A. No, I don’t know.


7 Q. To this day you don’t?


8 A. To this day I don’t know.


9 Q. Did Asaf finally leave and go outside?


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. Did Aja go outside?


12 A. Aja had left almost immediately. Aja and


13 the baby.


14 Q. In what room did the interview finally take


15 place?


16 A. It took place in the — okay, the dining and


17 the living room, it’s combined. But it just looks


18 like, you know —


19 Q. There is some conversation with you and the


20 social worker that’s on this tape; is that correct?


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. All right. Where did this conversation take


23 place? Where was the tape-recorder during that


24 conversation?


25 A. In the bedroom.


26 Q. So they were with you initially in the


27 bedroom?


28 A. No, no, no. I’m sorry, I’m thinking about 6185


1 when the lady was talking to me by myself.


2 Q. Yes.


3 A. And I tried to tell her, and that’s when


4 Asaf popped up.


5 Q. Yes.


6 A. That part, when there’s one person talking


7 to me is — towards the end is in Jay’s bedroom.


8 Q. And that person came into the bedroom with


9 you?


10 A. Yes, she came into the bedroom.


11 Q. Do you know who that person was, what her


12 name was?


13 A. I don’t remember her name, but I can — I


14 can tell you who — who it is by the description.


15 Q. By the description?


16 A. Yes, I can.


17 Q. There were how many social workers there at


18 the time?


19 A. Three.


20 Q. Did one appear to be a supervisor to you?


21 A. Yes, she — Karen Walker.


22 Q. And the person who had the conversation with


23 you that is picked up, was that Karen Walker or one


24 of the others?


25 A. You could pick up Karen Walker in the


26 beginning. But this one was not Karen Walker in the


27 bedroom.


28 Q. All right. To the extent that this 6186


1 tape-recording goes on for approximately 19 minutes,


2 does this tape-recording accurately capture the


3 conversations?


4 A. Yes. And Asaf began taping when the CPS


5 women walked in.


6 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we would move to


7 introduce into evidence Exhibit No. 810 with the


8 representation that the transcript will be furnished


9 within the day.


10 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.


11 THE COURT: It’s admitted.

After the tape was admitted into evidence, Zonen questioned Janet again about the DCFS interview, and she stated that they said they (the social workers) were concerned about Jackson, but didn’t want to be sued by him. Janet was told by Vinnie Amen that her answers during the rebuttal video were “inadequate” because she didn’t “stick to the script”. Aja Pryor drove her and the children back to Neverland after the interview was completed.

12 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: How long did that interview


13 go on with Child Protective Services or Department


14 of Child Family Services?


15 A. Yeah, I couldn’t tell you, Mr. Zonen.


16 Q. At — presumably this conversation ended at


17 some point in time, did it not?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. Did they make any representations to you,


20 “they” being any of the social workers?


21 A. The three women?


22 Q. Yes.


23 A. They were just concerned about Mr. Jackson.


24 They just didn’t want to be sued by Michael Jackson.


25 They had not a single sheet of paper in front of


26 them. They didn’t even take a single piece of note


27 from me or my children.


28 Q. Do you know if they tape-recorded the 6187


1 conversation?

2 A. No, I don’t know.


3 Q. You didn’t see a tape-recording?


4 A. I didn’t see anything.


5 Q. They didn’t tell you they were


6 tape-recording?


7 A. They didn’t tell me.


8 Q. None of them had notes that they were


9 taking?


10 A. None of them had a single sheet of pad,


11 notepad, pencil, pen, pulled out. All they kept


12 telling me was that they didn’t want to be sued by


13 Michael Jackson, over and over.


14 Remember I told you there was a difference


15 of people? The one that had been brought out way,


16 way — her sole concern was my children. But in


17 these, their sole concern was Michael Jackson.


18 Q. Did they ask any questions of your children


19 in your presence?


20 A. Yes, they did.


21 Q. Did they ask them if anything had happened


22 to them when they were at Neverland?


23 A. Not really.


24 Q. What did they ask them?


25 A. It was just — it was more of a — of a pep


26 talk.


27 Q. What did your children say to them in their


28 presence? 6188


1 A. They basically said happy things about


2 Michael. And them being together.


3 Q. And did you do the same?


4 A. Yes, I did.


5 Q. Did you tell them that he was a father


6 figure to your children?


7 A. Yes, I did. Almost identical to the


8 scripted video. But not as long. It was kind of


9 like — it was extremely short.


10 Q. All right. Presumably they left at some


11 time after?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. Who was still present among the ones that


14 you’ve previously identified after the social


15 workers left?


16 A. Aja, the baby, Asaf, me, the children, then


17 Vinnie was there now. After the CPS women walked


18 out.


19 Q. Excuse me. Did Asaf talk to you after the


20 social workers left?


21 A. Yes. He was making sure that me and Aja had


22 no private time. And he had told me, “Hold on.


23 Vinnie wants to tell you something.” And he


24 escorted Aja and the kids out to Aja’s car.


25 Q. Now, did Asaf in your presence retrieve the


26 tape-recorder?


27 A. I think — I remember him walking into the


28 bedroom, but that’s the — because what happened was 6189


1 when — after — when the CPS women came, I ran into


2 the bedroom and I put it back in the same place that


3 he had placed it.


4 Q. All right. And did he then retrieve it?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. And he retrieved it from the same place?


7 A. From the same place.


8 Q. All right. Did he make any effort to listen


9 to it in your presence?


10 A. No.


11 Q. Did you tell him that you had stopped it?


12 A. No.


13 Q. Or attempted to stop it?


14 A. I — yeah, I tried and — but I did end up


15 turning it off. Because I was pushing.


16 Q. Did he say anything to you at all about


17 whether or not this tape had run the entire time?


18 Did he make any inquiries of you?


19 A. No.


20 Q. Did you have any conversation with Asaf at


21 all following the moment when the social workers


22 left?


23 A. Well, Vinnie was there now. And he told me


24 that Vinnie had — that Vinnie had to talk to me.


25 Q. All right.


26 A. While he escorted Aja and the children out


27 to Aja’s car.


28 Q. So there was no additional conversation? 6190


1 A. No additional conversation. This is the


2 best I can remember.


3 Q. With Asaf?


4 A. With Asaf. He told me that Vinnie had


5 something to tell me.


6 Q. Did you then talk with Vinnie at that point?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. What did Vinnie say to you?


9 A. That I had done — that I had not done an


10 adequate job on the video, and we were going to have


11 to proceed with leaving out of the country.


12 Q. Is this the first time that anybody talked


13 to you about your performance or the performance of


14 the children in the rebuttal video?


15 A. Yes, it was Vinnie.


16 Q. And he said it wasn’t adequate?


17 A. That’s right.


18 Q. Did he give you any specifics as to what was


19 not adequate in this interview?


20 A. Yeah, that I — I was supposed to stick


21 strictly to the script. I went out of — the things


22 I got in trouble for, because of God, the Child


23 Welfare Services thing, and Gavin’s cancer.


24 Q. All right. Now, we have seen this video a


25 couple times already.


26 A. Okay.


27 Q. Let’s go back. These are things that Vinnie


28 specifically told you? 6191


1 A. Yes.


2 Q. Let’s start with the first one. What did he


3 say about references to God?


4 A. Okay. I was supposed to say that Michael


5 healed Gavin.


6 Q. And did you not say that?


7 A. I did not say it exactly like they wanted me


8 to. Instead I said — Dieter had also presented to


9 me to say, “Via God’s Grace,” because I was so, “No,


10 it’s God who healed Gavin, not Michael healed Gavin.


11 God did.” And so then I was supposed to say that


12 sentence plus that, them.


13 Q. And what did he say about the other two


14 issues that you had mentioned?


15 A. That I was supposed to make no issue — see,


16 the whole video, plus the outtakes, was also


17 scripted. It wasn’t — it wasn’t — it was the —


18 the whole thing, from outtakes, to video filming, to


19 everything, every single thing was part of the


20 choreography.


21 Q. What did he say to you specifically, Vinnie?


22 What did he say to you about the other two issues


23 that you mentioned?


24 A. Well, I didn’t say about Gavin’s cancer,


25 that’s why they repeatedly — I wasn’t on target


26 about that, what they wanted.


27 Q. What did he want you to say more about


28 Gavin’s cancer? 6192


1 A. Well, how they had scripted it.


2 Q. How was that? How was it different than


3 what you actually said?


4 A. Well —


5 Q. Do you recall?


6 A. The best I can remember is that I said


7 Gavin — about — I totally was not on script about


8 Gavin’s cancer. I said from my heart.


9 Q. All right. And what was the third thing?


10 A. The Child Welfare Services, I was supposed


11 to make no commentary about that at all. Zero.


12 Q. And you did?


13 A. And I did.


14 Q. Now, where did everybody go after this took


15 place and the social workers were gone? Where did


16 the kids end up going at that point?


17 A. Okay. The kids and Aja went to Neverland,


18 and they were also being followed, and Aja don’t


19 know she’s being followed.


20 Q. Just tell us where they went. They went


21 back to Neverland?


22 A. Yes, they went to Neverland.


23 Q. Did they get any sleep that night at all?


24 A. The children?


25 Q. Yeah.


26 A. They must have slept about one hour. About


27 one hour.


28 Q. Where? 6193


1 A. At Jay’s.


2 Q. At Jay’s house before the workers got there?


3 A. Before the workers got there. And me?


4 Zero.


5 Q. Did you have to wake them up?

6 A. Yes, I did.

Next, Zonen asked Janet to identify several releases that she and her kids signed on her own volition, without the advice of an attorney. She testified that she didn’t ask for any money for participating in the rebuttal video (yeah, right!), and nobody offered her any money.

7 MR. ZONEN: Excuse me.


8 Your Honor, I’d like to approach the


9 witness, if I can, to show a couple of exhibits


10 already shown to counsel, defense counsel.


11 THE COURT: All right.


12 MR. ZONEN: Before I do that, I need a


13 stapler.


14 Q. I’d like to show you Exhibit No. 811. And


15 then I’m going to show you 812. Let’s start with


16 811 here.


17 A. Okay.


18 Q. 811 is a collection of four pieces of paper


19 stapled together; is that correct?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Have you ever seen any of those documents


22 before?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. All right. Tell us what those documents


25 are.


26 A. This is when we got off the car at Hamid’s


27 house, Vinnie had told me that I had to sign these


28 releases. And this was part of it. 6194


1 Q. Now, are these the releases, in fact, that


2 were given to you?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. And did you, in fact, sign that release?


5 A. Yes, I did.


6 Q. And why did you do that?


7 A. Because this is all part of what they


8 requested.


9 Q. All right.


10 A. In order — in order for us not to leave the


11 country and for my children to be let go and not


12 have to deal with this anymore.


13 Q. Did you consult with an attorney before


14 signing that release?


15 A. No.


16 Q. Did you have any discussions with Vicky


17 Poderevski about that release?


18 A. No.


19 Q. Was there any other attorney that was


20 brought to the — to the — to the house to —


21 A. No.


22 Q. Did you ever talk with Mark Geragos about


23 that release?


24 A. No. I’ve never even spoke to Mark Geragos.


25 Q. Never had any conversation?


26 A. Zero conversation.


27 Q. Did you ever meet Mark Geragos?


28 A. Never. 6195


1 Q. Did you have some discussion with either


2 Vinnie or anybody else there about the nature of


3 that release before signing it?


4 A. No.


5 Q. I’d like you to look at the next exhibit


6 that’s — incidentally, before you turn back,


7 there’s four pages there.


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Tell us how each of those pages differ from


10 one another.


11 A. I — I don’t understand your question.


12 Q. All right. Is the — are the signatures the


13 same on each one?


14 A. Of — no. They’re all different, except


15 Vinnie’s. Vinnie’s is the same on all of them.


16 Q. And whose are the other signatures? Is one


17 of the signatures yours?


18 A. My three children and myself.


19 Q. Do you have a recollection of your three


20 children actually signing those releases?


21 A. Yes, I do.


22 Q. Were you present at the time?


23 A. Yes, I was.


24 Q. Was anything explained to them at the time


25 they signed it?


26 A. No.


27 Q. Did you encourage them to sign it?


28 A. No. 6196


1 Q. Who was it who presented the releases to


2 them?


3 A. Vinnie.


4 Q. And, in fact, Vinnie’s signature is on each


5 of them as well?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. All right. Do you recall if any of your


8 children asked any questions about those releases


9 before signing them?


10 A. They didn’t.


11 Q. Did anybody talk to you about whether or not


12 releases signed by a child would be legally binding?


13 A. I’m sorry?


14 Q. Did anybody talk to you about the question


15 of whether or not releases that are signed by a


16 child — wait till the question is asked.


17 A. Okay.


18 Q. That releases signed by a child would be


19 legally binding? Did that discussion come up at all


20 with Vinnie?


21 A. No.


22 Q. Or with anybody else?


23 A. No.


24 THE COURT: All right. We’ll take our break.


25 (Recess taken.)

1 THE COURT: All right. Counsel?


2 MR. ZONEN: Thank you, Your Honor.


3 Q. We were looking at Exhibit 811, which I


4 think you still have in front of you.


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. All right. And are those accurate copies —


7 THE BAILIFF: Oh, microphone, please.


8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: We were looking initially at


9 811. Those are the four documents that are stapled


10 together. And you’ve already testified as to what


11 they were —


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. — and when they were signed.


14 Are those accurate duplicates of the


15 documents signed that evening by you and your three


16 children?


17 A. Yes.


18 MR. ZONEN: And, Your Honor, I would move to


19 introduce 811 into evidence.


20 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.


21 THE COURT: It’s admitted.


22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Now, prior to your signing it


23 or even subsequent to your signing it, was there any


24 subsequent conversation with Vinnie or anybody else


25 about money that would be received?


26 A. No.


27 Q. Did you discuss with an attorney anything


28 about money? 6203


1 A. No.


2 Q. Did they offer you money?


3 A. No.


4 Q. Did you ask for money?


5 A. No.


6 Q. And I think that you had already said that


7 that was not part of the conversation that you had


8 with Vicky Podberesky.


9 A. Exactly.


10 Q. And did they offer you any other legal


11 assistance, anybody else to talk —


12 MR. MESEREAU: Object to the word “they” as


13 vague.


14 MR. ZONEN: I’ll withdraw the question.


15 Q. Did Vinnie tell you about any other lawyers


16 who might be available for you to discuss — to talk


17 about this release?


18 A. No.


19 Q. Was there ever any representation by them


20 that they would pay you or your children for your


21 participation in this video?


22 A. No.


23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection to the word “them”


24 as vague.


25 MR. ZONEN: I’ll withdraw the question.


26 Q. Was there ever any representation by Vinnie


27 that you would be paid for your participation in


28 this video? 6204


1 A. No.


2 Q. Did you ever request of Vinnie that you be


3 paid for your participation in the video?


4 A. No.


5 Q. Did you ever have a discussion about being


6 paid for this video with any employee of Michael


7 Jackson?


8 A. No.


9 Q. Did you ever talk with Michael Jackson about


10 it?


11 A. No.


12 Q. Did you expect to be compensated for it?

13 A. No.


14 Q. Did you have a conversation prior to doing


15 this video with Jay Jackson about whether or not you


16 should be compensated for this video?


17 A. No.


18 Q. Did Jay Jackson have a conversation with you


19 where he reviewed the content of a conversation he


20 had with Frank?


21 A. No.


22 Q. Were you aware that he had had a


23 conversation with Frank about this video?


24 A. No.


25 Q. Now, I’d like you to look at the other


26 document that’s right in front of you. It’s No.


27 812. Have you seen that document before?


28 A. I’ve seen it per your investigation and over 6205


1 there at Neverland.


2 Q. Okay. When was the first time you saw that


3 document?


4 A. I think the best I remember was in


5 Neverland.


6 Q. And do you know who it was that showed that


7 document to you?


8 A. It was Frank and Vinnie.


9 Q. Was that before the video was done?


10 A. No.


11 Q. It was after the video was done?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. Did somebody hand that to you and ask you to


14 sign it?


15 A. Yeah.


16 Q. All right. Who was that who handed it to


17 you?


18 A. By this time my signing days were over.


19 Q. Tell us when that was, approximately.


20 A. That was in Neverland after — after the


21 Chris Carter thing.


22 Q. Okay. Now, the person — I’m sorry, who was


23 it again who handed that to you?


24 A. Frank and Vinnie.


25 Q. Were they both together at the time?


26 A. Sometimes together.


27 Q. But on the first occasion that you saw this


28 document – 6206


1 A. Frank.


2 Q. — it was Frank?


3 Did you see that document on more than one


4 occasion?


5 A. Wait. Best I remember. It could have been


6 Vinnie. Vinnie or Frank. I don’t know.


7 Q. Take a moment. Take a moment.


8 A. Uh-huh. I think — the best I can remember,


9 I think — yeah, the best I can remember was Vinnie,


10 then Frank, then both. That’s the best I can


11 remember.


12 Q. Let’s start with Vinnie, whether he was


13 first or second. Do you remember what Vinnie


14 specifically said to you about that document?


15 A. “Sign here.”


16 Q. Did he explain what it was?


17 A. No.


18 Q. Did he explain what it was for?


19 A. No.


20 Q. Did he give you any detail at all about that


21 document or why he wanted you to sign it?


22 A. No.


23 Q. How about Frank? When he talked to you


24 individually, what did he say about that document?


25 A. Nothing. Just, “Sign it.”


26 Q. Do you remember when this was relative to


27 the video that you had already done?


28 A. After. 6207


1 Q. Do you know approximately how long after?


2 A. No, I wouldn’t be able to tell you.


3 Q. Okay. Did Frank give you any direction as


4 to why he wanted you to sign that document?


5 A. No.


6 Q. And when the two of them were together and


7 spoke to you about that document, did either one of


8 them, in the course of that conversation, say


9 anything to you about why they wanted you to sign


10 it?


11 A. No.


12 Q. All right. Now, the document that you have


13 in front of you —


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. — has your name preprinted; is that


16 correct?


17 A. Uh —


18 Q. At the bottom of the page?


19 A. Oh, I see. Yeah. At the bottom.


20 Q. And was that how it was at the time that


21 they had handed it to you?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. Did you, in fact, refuse to sign that


24 document?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. You never did?


27 A. Huh-uh.


28 Q. In the course of your – 6208


1 A. I got in trouble for that.


2 Q. — discussions with either Vinnie or Frank


3 about your signing or not signing that document, did


4 you make a demand for money?


5 A. No.


6 Q. Did you ever ask them for money?


7 A. No.


8 Q. Did you tell them why you didn’t want to


9 sign the document?


10 A. Because my signing days were over. That’s


11 it.


12 Q. What does that mean?


13 A. They had me sign a bunch of different


14 things —


15 Q. Were there —


16 A. — over the course of from Miami to this.


17 I’m talking in total. And that’s it. You know,


18 “Let me go. Let my kids go.” That’s all I wanted.


19 Q. All right. Ultimately you did not sign that


20 document?


21 A. No.


22 Q. Did you see if there were similar copies of


23 that document but with the names of your children?


24 A. Yes. Yes.


25 Q. Did they show them to your children at all?


26 A. I — they may have. They may have. Because


27 they had a period of time when they were alone with


28 the children. 6209


1 Q. Do you know from personal knowledge? In


2 other words, did your children ever sign those


3 documents in your presence?


4 A. In my presence, never.


5 Q. All right. Do you have any information, one


6 way or the other, as to whether or not they


7 ultimately signed that release on 812?


8 A. I don’t know about this release.


9 Q. Okay. Is that, in fact, an accurate copy of


10 the release that was shown to you at Neverland?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Were you shown that release on more than one


13 occasion?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. On how many separate occasions were you


16 shown that release?


17 A. I wouldn’t be able to tell you, Mr. Zonen.


18 Q. Can you give us a sense of it?


19 A. No.


20 Q. Okay. More than once?


21 A. Yes.


22 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I would move to


23 introduce 812 into evidence at this time.


24 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.


25 THE COURT: It’s admitted.


26 MR. ZONEN: Just one moment, Your Honor,


27 please.


28 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel 6210


1 table.)

Now, back to the post DCFS interview activities of the Arvizos: immediately after the interview concluded, Janet was taken to get passports and visas for the trip to Brazil, while Azja took Gavin, Star, and Davellin to Neverland.  When asked about the proposed trip to Brazil, Janet testified that she didn’t want to go because Gavin had a close relationship with his doctors, and she had “waited a lifetime” to find someone like Jay Jackson, and she wanted to be with him for Valentine’s Day, but decided to go because Jay and her parent’s lives were in danger from “the killers”. Seriously.

2 MR. ZONEN: May I approach the witness, Your


3 Honor?




5 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, I’m showing you


6 No. 814 for identification. No. 814 for


7 identification. I’d like to — I’d like you to take


8 a look at this, please. Take a moment and look at


9 it.


10 A. Uh-huh. Okay.


11 Q. Is that a document you’ve seen before?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. Where did you see that before?


14 A. I think I seen this in — I think I seen

15 this in Neverland.


16 Q. Okay. Is that your handwriting?


17 A. No.


18 Q. Do you know whose handwriting it is?


19 A. This is Vinnie’s.


20 Q. Was that drafted in your presence?


21 A. I don’t think so.


22 Q. Turn the document over, if you would.


23 A. Oh, my God.


24 Q. Excuse me. Tell us what that is on the


25 other side of the document.


26 A. It’s the same one.


27 Q. In other words, it’s —


28 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Your microphone, sir. 6211


1 MR. ZONEN: Okay. We’re back on.


2 Q. I’ve now asked you to turn this document


3 over on the other side.


4 A. Yeah.


5 Q. And what is it on the other side?


6 A. It’s the same one.


7 Q. It’s the copy of exhibit number what?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. I’m sorry, exhibit number what? Tell us


10 what exhibit that is. I think it’s 812. No?


11 A. Yes, 812.


12 Q. So the back side of the one that I just


13 showed you which has Vinnie’s handwriting —


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. — is, in fact, a copy of 812?


16 A. Yes.


17 Q. Is it the one that has your name preprinted


18 or one of the kid’s?


19 A. It’s mine, preprinted.


20 Q. Did Vinnie ever show you that document, the


21 written one?


22 A. I don’t — I can’t remember. I —


23 Q. Do you have a recollection of having seen it


24 at some point in time?


25 A. Yes, I think so. At Neverland.


26 Q. Did you ever sign a handwritten document?


27 A. A handwritten document?


28 Q. Yes. 6212


1 A. No.


2 Q. Is your signature on that document?


3 A. No, it isn’t.


4 Q. But your name is on it?


5 A. But my name is on it.


6 Q. Does that appear to be some form of a model


7 release?


8 A. It says, “This model release….”


9 Q. Was there ever a discussion between you and


10 Vinnie or you and Frank about coming up with some


11 kind of a release that was suitable for you?


12 A. No.


13 Q. The release that you’re holding in your hand


14 right now, the printed form on the back of that


15 page, that was presented to you before or after you


16 did the video rebuttal?


17 A. After.


18 Q. You can go ahead and put those down.


19 A. Okay.


20 Q. Miss Arvizo, 812 that I showed you


21 initially, the one that does not have something on


22 the back —


23 A. Okay.


24 Q. — is that, in fact, an accurate copy of


25 the release that was given to you by both Vinnie and


26 Frank?


27 A. Yes.


28 MR. ZONEN: I’d move — is 812 in evidence 6213


1 already?




3 MR. ZONEN: It is in evidence. Okay. Never


4 mind.


5 MR. ZONEN: Tom, do you want to stipulate to


6 this coming in?




8 MR. ZONEN: Then I’ll lay the foundation.


9 Excuse me.


10 Q. After the social workers left and your kids


11 went back to Neverland, where did you go on that


12 day?


13 A. Well, that began the process of getting the


14 passports and visas. The first step was getting the


15 birth certificates.


16 Q. All right. And did you, in fact, get birth


17 certificates that day?


18 A. On that day was the application. And when I


19 arrived there, I had to do — they — I had to write


20 a little kind of paragraph stating that it was an


21 emergency; that I had to get out — something about


22 out of the country. I don’t recall, but they wanted


23 it fast enough.


24 Q. Did they say — who is “they”?


25 A. Michael’s people.


26 Q. Well, somebody in particular had you write


27 something?


28 A. Vinnie. And Frank over the phone. Frank 6214


1 never left our side, whether he was on the phone or


2 in person.


3 Q. Vinnie asked you to write something that


4 stated it was an emergency?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. Did he tell you what that was for?


7 A. Well, that’s what — the information that he


8 had got, because he had asked the birth certificate


9 people that he needed it immediately. And they had


10 told him, “No, the only way we can do it, if there’s


11 an emergency.” And so he had told me that to write


12 it’s an emergency.


13 Q. Who was it who told you, “You’re going to


14 Brazil now”?


15 A. Frank, Vinnie.


16 Q. What did you tell them in response to


17 whether or not you wanted to go to Brazil?


18 A. They knew I didn’t want to go.


19 Q. Did you tell them that?


20 A. Yes, I did.


21 Q. Tell us why you didn’t want to go.


22 A. I didn’t want to go because first, first and


23 main reason, is Gavin’s doctor is here. He has to


24 see an oncologist and a nephrologist. He depends on


25 those doctors, first. And second, I waited a


26 lifetime to find someone I could give a valentine


27 to, and that was Jay.


28 Q. You didn’t want to leave that relationship? 6215


1 A. No, I didn’t.


2 Q. Did you tell this to either Vinnie or Frank?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. What did they say?


5 A. Well, the part about no, no going to Brazil.


6 Not the part about Jay.


7 Q. Did you talk to either Vinnie or Frank about


8 medical issues?


9 A. Yes. I told him I couldn’t — you know, I’m


10 trying to negotiate for mine and my children’s


11 freedom —


12 Q. Uh-huh.


13 A. — by saying, you know, “Sorry, I can’t go,”


14 you know. “The doctors are here.”


15 And nope, still got to go.


16 Q. Okay. Why did you ultimately agree to go?


17 I mean, why not just say, “I’m not going”?


18 A. Because of my parents’ life, my — and Jay’s


19 life.


20 Q. What does that mean, “your parents’ life”


21 and “Jay’s life”?


22 A. Well —


23 Q. What did that have to do with going to


24 Brazil?


25 A. That they were going to be killed.


26 Q. Who told you that?


27 A. Frank. Frank became the worst out of all of


28 them. 6216


1 Q. Did you have any additional conversations


2 with either Dieter or Ronald?


3 A. No, the Germans are out of the picture.


4 They’re no longer in the picture. Slowly — there


5 was a transition period where Ronald and Dieter were


6 replaced by Frank and Vinnie. Frank and Vinnie took


7 the spots of Ronald and Dieter. The Germans are out


8 of the picture now.


9 Q. Did you tell them that you were going to go


10 to Brazil?


11 A. No.


12 Q. Did you start doing things toward going to


13 Brazil?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. All right. And you started to mention


16 something about birth certificates.


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. Okay. Now, on this — was it the same day


19 as the interview that you had with the department —

20 with the social workers that you went and started


21 gathering up materials?


22 A. Yes. Same day.


23 Q. What materials did you gather?


24 A. The only thing was the birth certificate


25 application. They — they assumed that we were


26 going to get the application on the spot, and so —


27 MR. ZONEN: Counsel?


28 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel 6217


1 table.)

To Be Continued:

4 Comments leave one →
  1. stacy2 permalink
    May 7, 2013 10:52 pm

    ok cool..I’m kind of skeptical about this. I don’t think he’s suing for child abuse charges. I think he wants MJ’s Estate to pay him money that he thinks is owed to him i.e., creditor’s claim. I think he’s using the child abuse charges as leverage against the estate to meet his demands.

    • sanemjfan permalink
      May 7, 2013 9:42 pm

      Yes, we’ve seen it, and I will deal with it tomorrow. Stay tuned……


  1. April 13th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Jay Jackson (Cross Examination) and Janet Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 5 of 5 | Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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