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What the HELL is wrong with Wade Robson? Part 4 of 4: Summary and Analysis of Joy Robson’s Testimony from the 2005 Trial

May 13, 2013

Joy and Chantal Robson

So far, Wade’s mother Joy Robson has been completely silent throughout this fiasco, but it doesn’t surprise me because she isn’t active on social media. However, based on her daughter Chantal’s public support for Wade, and the gratitude that she has shown to all of her “supporters” on her FB page, it’s safe to assume that Joy Robson stands behinds her son’s allegations 100%.

Chantal Robson's FB post thanking people for their support

Before we get to her testimony, I want to share an interesting tidbit of information from Jermaine Jackson’s book “You Are Not Alone”; on page 155 , he briefly describes how Joy was approached by a “journalist” name Victor Gutierrez in 1992. He was conducting an “investigation” to prove his suspicions that Jackson was a pedophile, and after meeting with Gutierrez, Joy immediately phoned Jackson’s office:

Excerpt from Jermaine's book about VG approaching Joy Robson, part 1

Here’s what Jermaine had to say about Wade’s allegations. As you can see, he was very blunt and to the point!

Gutierrez published the trash book “Michael Jackson Was My Lover” overseas, but was unable to get a US publisher to distribute it after he lost a multi-million dollar slander lawsuit against Jackson in 1997. Throughout the book, Gutierrez wrote about his interactions with Joy Robson and other associates of Jackson (including the Chandlers), but fortunately his book was fact checked by using Joy’s testimony in this aptly post titled “Joy Robson vs. Victor Gutierrez: The Truth against Lies”. There are almost two dozen posts that have been written to refute the lies of Victor Gutierrez (that number of posts is indicative of how instrumental he was in Jackson’s downfall), and you can see them all here.

Not only did Joy reject any money that Victor Gutierrez offered her, but she also turned down a six figure bounty from the National Enquirer! Here is an exceprt from page 159 of Jermaine’s book:

Joy Robson turned down money from National Enquirer to lie on MJ

It’s really unbelievable that Joy would turn down money from the tabloids and reject Victor Gutierrez’s assertions during Jackson’s darkest hour, yet all of a sudden do a complete 180 degree turnaround and support her son (in my opinion, he silence so far is a sign of support for her son).

So let’s see what she had to say on the witness stand in 2005:

Mesereau began his direct examination of Joy by questioning her about her background, how she met Jackson, etc.

25 DIRECT EXAMINATION

 

26 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

27 Q. Good morning, Miss Robson.

 

28 A. Good morning. 9210

 

1 Q. Miss Robson, where is your home?

 

2 A. In Sherman Oaks, California.

 

3 Q. And do you know the fellow seated at counsel

 

4 table to my right?

 

5 A. Yes, I do.

 

6 Q. Who is he?

 

7 A. That’s Michael Jackson.

 

8 Q. How long have you known him?

 

9 A. 18 years.

 

10 Q. And how did you meet Mr. Jackson?

 

11 A. Originally, in Australia in —

 

12 Q. I think you need to speak up a little bit.

 

13 A. Sorry. In Australia. He was touring on the

 

14 “Bad” tour, and my son Wade was five years old and

 

15 won a Michael Jackson look-alike/dance-alike

 

16 competition.

 

17 Q. Did you develop a friendship with Michael

 

18 Jackson?

 

19 A. Not immediately. Two years later, we

 

20 returned to the United States for — Wade was

 

21 dancing here, and we reassociated with him at that

 

22 point, and became friends from there, from 1989.

 

23 Q. Are you still Michael Jackson’s friend?

 

24 A. Absolutely.

 

25 Q. Have you been to Neverland?

 

26 A. Many times.

 

27 Q. How many times do you think you visited

 

28 Neverland? 9211

 

1 A. I have no idea. We average about four times

 

2 a year since we’ve lived in the United States, which

 

3 is 14 years now, and quite a few times before that.

 

4 Q. Do you remember the first time you visited

 

5 Neverland?

 

6 A. Yes. It was in January of 1990.

 

7 Q. And how did you end up visiting Neverland?

 

8 A. When we were here, we called around, trying

 

9 to find Michael again. He had told us if we

 

10 returned to the United States to contact him. So we

 

11 called around, and we eventually were put onto his

 

12 personal assistant, which at that time was Norma

 

13 Stakos, and they called Michael.

 

14 He remembered us, and said he would like to

 

15 see us again. So we met him at a recording studio

 

16 where he was working at the time.

 

17 Q. And did you stay at Neverland on that first

 

18 visit?

 

19 A. Yes, he invited us to stay that weekend, so

 

20 we did. We went — we were touring the United

 

21 States, we were here on vacation as well. We went

 

22 away for the week, and came back for the second

 

23 weekend.

Mesereau questioned Joy about her recollection of Jackson’s bedroom, which the prosecution spent an inordinate amount of time on during their cross examination of her son Wade. She never personally slept in Jackson’s bedroom suite, but she did give permission for Wade and his sister to sleep there. Notice how Jackson said that they could stay with him IF THEY’D LIKE TO STAY; he did not force them to stay with him:

24 Q. Have you seen Michael Jackson’s bedroom at

 

25 Neverland?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. When did you first see Michael Jackson’s

 

28 bedroom at Neverland? 9212

 

1 A. That first weekend when we stayed with him.

 

2 Q. Ever stayed in that room yourself?

 

3 A. No.

 

4 Q. Do you recall your son staying in Michael

 

5 Jackson’s room at Neverland?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. And explain that, if you would.

 

8 A. Well, the first — the first night they had

 

9 been out doing the usual thing at Neverland,

 

10 playing. And later that night, they all came back

 

11 to the suite where my husband and I were staying,

 

12 and my parents were with us, as well. We were all

 

13 talking in the suite.

 

14 And Wade had been impersonating Michael for

 

15 some time and had lots of costumes of Michael’s that

 

16 we had made. And Michael was looking at them, and

 

17 we were just all discussing those.

 

18 And then it was getting late, and my

 

19 children said to me, both Chantel and Wade, my

 

20 daughter, said, “Can we stay with Michael.”

 

21 And my husband and I sort of looked at

 

22 Michael, and said, “Well, if that’s okay with you.”

 

23 And he said, “Oh, absolutely. If they’d like to

 

24 stay, that’s fine.”

 

25 Q. And did you allow your son and daughter to

 

26 stay in his room?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. How many times do you think your son and 9213

 

1 daughter stayed in his room?

 

2 A. Many times. I have no idea.

 

3 Q. Did you ever have a problem with them doing

 

4 that?

 

5 A. Not at all.

Next, Mesereau asked a few more general questions about Joy’s time with Jackson on a trip to Vegas, her impressions of Neverland, etc. Joy testified that she and her kids spent a lot of time with Jackson in his hotel room, eating popcorn and watching cartoons. This was typical behavior for Jackson, who was often accompanied by his friends while on tour.

6 Q. Have you ever traveled with Mr. Jackson?

 

7 A. Only once. We went to Las Vegas with him.

 

8 Q. What was the purpose of that trip?

 

9 A. We went to see Siegfried & Roy.

 

10 Q. How did you get to Las Vegas for that trip?

 

11 A. We went on a private jet. I think it

 

12 belonged to Steve Wynn. We were staying at The

 

13 Mirage.

 

14 Q. And did you stay at The Mirage Hotel?

 

15 A. Yes.

 

16 Q. And where did you stay?

 

17 A. We had a penthouse suite. There were two

 

18 bedrooms, and I stayed in one of them.

 

19 Q. And who stayed in the other room?

 

20 A. Michael and Wade sort of went between both

 

21 rooms. He did stay in Michael’s room most of the

 

22 time.

 

23 Q. And were you ever in Michael’s room on that

 

24 trip?

 

25 A. Yes. As a matter of fact, we spent a whole

 

26 day sitting in bed, the three of us, eating popcorn,

 

27 watching cartoons.

 

28 Q. Ever see anything inappropriate happen on 9214

 

1 that trip?

 

2 A. Never.

 

3 Q. Ever see anything inappropriate happen at

 

4 Neverland?

5 A. Never.

 

6 Q. Okay. When’s the last time you spoke to

 

7 Michael Jackson?

 

8 A. Two weeks ago. We visited his children at

 

9 Neverland.

 

10 Q. Okay. And do you consider yourselves

 

11 friends of the family of Mr. Jackson?

 

12 A. We consider us very good friends, if not

 

13 family.

 

14 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Jackson ever use the word

 

15 “family” to describe you and your children?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any problem with

 

18 that?

 

19 A. Never.

 

20 Q. Ever seen Mr. Jackson hug your children?

 

21 A. Mr. Jackson hugs everyone.

 

22 Q. Ever seen Mr. Jackson kiss your children on

 

23 the cheek?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. Did you ever have a problem with that?

 

26 A. No.

 

27 Q. Ever see Mr. Jackson hold any of your

 

28 children by the hand? 9215

 

1 A. I think so, yes.

 

2 Q. Did you ever have a problem with that?

 

3 A. No.

 

4 Q. Ever seen Mr. Jackson playing with your

 

5 children?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. And what did you see him do?

 

8 A. He’d play — I’ve seen him play games,

 

9 hide-and-seek. I’ve seen them climb trees. I’ve

 

10 seen them play in the water fort at the ranch. They

 

11 play constantly.

 

12 Q. Did you ever have any problem with any of

 

13 that?

 

14 A. No. We all did it together often. We

 

15 were — all played together.

 

16 Q. How would you describe Neverland?

 

17 A. I would have once said the happiest place on

 

18 earth. I — I always felt that when we arrived at

 

19 Neverland, you forgot all your problems, you forgot

 

20 everything. It seemed like a world on its own. You

 

21 would drive in there, and it was very serene, very

 

22 peaceful, very beautiful. Inspirational. And

 

23 everything was perfect when you drive out and

 

24 reality would hit again.

 

25 Q. What did you like to do there?

 

26 MR. SNEDDON: Object as immaterial, Your

 

27 Honor.

 

28 THE COURT: Sustained. 9216

 

1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: What did you do at

 

2 Neverland?

 

3 MR. SNEDDON: Object as immaterial.

 

4 MR. MESEREAU: They put an issue what

 

5 Neverland’s all about, Your Honor.

 

6 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.

 

7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: What did you do at

 

8 Neverland?

 

9 A. We watched movies. I particularly liked the

 

10 chimpanzees. I spent a lot of time playing with the

 

11 chimps. All the animals, I enjoyed. We would play

 

12 on the water fort. We’d drive the quads around the

 

13 hills. Just a fun time always.

Joy Robson denied Blanca Francia’s allegations of seeing Jackson shower with Wade Robson, and once again confirmed that her daughter Chantal slept in Jackson’s bedroom, and Mesereau ended his direct examination thereafter:

14 Q. And did you ever meet someone named Blanca

 

15 Francia?

 

16 A. When you say “meet” her, I mean, I knew she

 

17 was working there, and I basically would say “Good

 

18 morning” to her if I saw her, but that would be the

 

19 extent of it.

 

20 Q. Ever see your son in a shower with Michael

 

21 Jackson?

 

22 A. No. Never.

 

23 Q. Ever seen the Jacuzzi at Neverland?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. Ever been in it yourself?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. How many times, do you think?

 

28 A. Oh. Maybe six or eight times. 9217

 

1 Q. Now, to your knowledge, has your daughter

 

2 ever been in Michael Jackson’s room at Neverland?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. And did she ever stay over there, to your

 

5 knowledge?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. Did you have any problem with that?

 

8 A. Not at all.

 

9 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions.

 

10 THE COURT: Cross-examine?

Sneddon began his cross examination by asking Joy for more details about her introduction to Jackson in Australia, and their meeting after she and her family moved to the USA. Afterwards, he insinuated the worst in Jackson by having Joy confirm that her kids slept in Jackson’s bedroom on the first night that they visited Neverland, but Joy testified that her kids told her they slept on the mezzanine level of Jackson’s two-story suite. Sneddon was trying to knock Joy off-guard by focusing on irrelevant semantics; the fact of the matter is that Jackson and her children sought her permission to sleep in his bedroom suite, she granted it and had no problems with it, end of story.

12 CROSS-EXAMINATION

 

13 BY MR. SNEDDON:

 

14 Q. Good morning.

 

15 A. Good morning.

 

16 Q. Before you testified here today, did you

 

17 review any documents?

 

18 A. I did review my testimony from the grand

 

19 jury last time, and the civil suit.

 

20 Q. Mr. Feldman’s grand jury —

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. — deposition?

 

23 A. Yes.

 

24 Q. Okay. Good. I just want to go back and see

 

25 if we can discuss some of the things you testified

 

26 about this morning.

 

27 As I recall, you first met the defendant at

 

28 a dance contest in Australia, correct? 9218

 

1 A. Correct.

 

2 Q. And that was in what year?

 

3 A. That was in 1987.

 

4 Q. And then your first trip to America was —

 

5 or maybe not the first trip, but in 1990, in

 

6 January, you came here with the dance troupe,

 

7 correct?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. And the time that you met Mr. Jackson in

 

10 Australia was in connection with your son winning a

 

11 dance contest?

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. And the occasion of you meeting Mr. Jackson

 

14 was you were brought behind the stage with a lot of

 

15 other people who were back there; is that right?

 

16 A. It was a meet-and-greet situation, yes.

 

17 Q. There wasn’t a lot of substance to it?

 

18 A. No, it was just, “How are you? It’s a

 

19 pleasure to meet you,” type of thing.

 

20 Q. Okay. And then the next time that you meet

 

21 Mr. Jackson is when you come to the United States in

 

22 January of 1990, correct?

 

23 A. Yes.

 

24 Q. And when you came here, there were no

 

25 arrangements when you first came here to meet with

 

26 Mr. Jackson?

 

27 A. No.

28 Q. And it was as a result of you making contact 9219

 

1 with Norma Stakos that you were able to make contact

 

2 with Mr. Jackson, correct?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. And then you were invited up to the ranch,

 

5 as I understand it, for a weekend?

 

6 A. Correct.

 

7 Q. So you weren’t there for an entire week?

 

8 A. No.

 

9 Q. Just for the weekend?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. And when you went there for the weekend, the

 

12 first night, your son and daughter spent the night

 

13 in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom, correct?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. Now, as I understand it, then, this was only

 

16 the second time that you had met Mr. Jackson; is

 

17 that correct?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. And the first time you’d really met him on a

 

20 one-on-one personal basis, correct?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. And how old was your son at this time?

 

23 A. When we were at Neverland?

 

24 Q. Yes, ma’am.

 

25 A. He was seven.

 

26 Q. Seven. How old was your daughter?

 

27 A. Ten.

 

28 Q. So your son and your daughter spent the 9220

 

1 first night with Mr. Jackson, and this was really

 

2 the first night you’d ever met Mr. Jackson, that’s

 

3 correct, on a substantive level?

 

4 A. Well, basically we’d spent the day with him,

 

5 yes.

 

6 Q. That was the first time?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. Now, did you know that your son and daughter

 

9 spent the night with Mr. Jackson in his bed?

 

10 A. They did not.

 

11 Q. They did not.

 

12 A. They slept on the mezzanine level.

 

13 Q. That’s your belief?

 

14 A. That’s what they had told me.

 

15 Q. So that — if your son testified here in

 

16 trial yesterday that he slept in the same bed with

 

17 Michael Jackson with his sister, that would be

 

18 inconsistent with what he told you before?

 

19 A. That was the second night.

 

20 Q. I’m asking you the first night.

 

21 A. Well, that’s — what I’ve been told by my

 

22 daughter and my son was the first night they slept

 

23 on the mezzanine level.

 

24 Q. So it would be correct that if your son

 

25 testified to that yesterday, that on the first night

 

26 he and his sister slept with Mr. Jackson in Mr.

 

27 Jackson’s bed, that statement would be inconsistent

 

28 with what they had told you before? 9221

 

1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Improper

 

2 question, referring to the testimony.

 

3 THE COURT: I’ll sustain the objection.

 

4 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: The second night your

 

5 daughter did not stay with Mr. Jackson?

 

6 A. She did.

 

7 Q. The second night also?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Both nights?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. Do you recall telling Mr. Feldman during the

 

12 deposition that on the second night your daughter

 

13 did not stay with the defendant?

 

14 A. Yes, as a matter of fact, when I read that

 

15 testimony, and my daughter has told me since that my

 

16 memory was incorrect, that she did stay.

 

17 Q. So you’re basing your testimony here today

 

18 on something your daughter told you as opposed to

 

19 what you recall when you were under oath in a

 

20 deposition?

 

21 A. Yes.

Sneddon desperately tried to trip up Joy by constantly referring to her deposition from 1993-94, and contrasting it with what Wade testified to yesterday. He continued along this path by asking Joy to describe her husband’s whereabouts during their visits to Neverland. Joy got very snarky when she told Sneddon that he was putting words in her mouth by assuming that she was using Jackson to get Wade a career in show business, and (surprisingly) Judge Melville didn’t admonish her for that.

22 Q. Now, is it your testimony that your husband

 

23 was present during the first visit?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. Did you go back for a second weekend?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. And was there a weekend between, or more

 

28 than one week in between? 9222

 

1 A. There was a week in between.

 

2 Q. So it was the following weekend you went

 

3 back?

 

4 A. Yes.

 

5 Q. And when you went back on that occasion, who

 

6 was present from your family?

 

7 A. My husband, my daughter, my son, and my

 

8 parents.

 

9 Q. Now, on the occasion of the first visit,

 

10 were your husband and your parents with you?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. Do you recall testifying at a deposition

 

13 that your parents and your husband were in San

 

14 Francisco on a trip the first time you visited the

 

15 ranch?

 

16 A. No, they went — we were all there for the

 

17 weekend. They left — we all left and went to

 

18 San — no, they went to San Francisco the second

 

19 week. We went back to Los Angeles with Michael.

 

20 Q. The question was, do you recall testifying

 

21 to that?

 

22 A. I wouldn’t have testified to that.

Sneddon moved on to the topics of Jackson’s cancellation of a trip to Japan in order to stay at Neverland with Wade Robson, his shopping sprees with the family, and her desire to allow Wade to enter show business:

23 Q. Okay. Now, during that first visit, the

 

24 first weekend that you were at the ranch, did the

 

25 subject of your son going on a trip to Japan come

 

26 up?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. So this would have been on the first day or 9223

 

1 the second day?

 

2 A. I don’t recall, I’m sorry.

 

3 Q. One of those two days, in any case?

 

4 A. Possibly.

 

5 Q. And the subject of the conversation was that

 

6 you had agreed to allow your son to accompany Mr.

 

7 Jackson on a trip to Japan if they wanted to go,

 

8 correct?

 

9 A. I think we talked about it.

 

10 Q. Well, did you agree to allow him to go with

 

11 Mr. Jackson on a trip to Japan?

 

12 A. I can’t remember really. I think I may

 

13 have, but we decided not to.

 

14 Q. Mr. Jackson decided he would rather spend

 

15 time with your son than go to Japan?

 

16 A. I think the decision was Wade preferred to

 

17 stay here. Stay at Neverland.

 

18 Q. So it wasn’t Mr. Jackson’s decision. It was

 

19 Wade’s decision?

 

20 A. It was Wade’s decision.

 

21 Q. Do you recall testifying in the deposition

 

22 with Mr. Feldman that that was Mr. Jackson’s

23 decision to decide not to go to Japan, because he

 

24 wanted to stay and have the time with your son?

 

25 A. I think what happened was that Wade was

 

26 given the choice.

 

27 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike, Your Honor.

 

28 THE COURT: Stricken. 9224

 

1 THE WITNESS: I don’t remember testifying to

 

2 that.

 

3 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: During the first weekend

 

4 trip to Neverland, did you go to Toys-R-Us?

 

5 A. No.

 

6 Q. Was that the second weekend?

 

7 A. I never went to Toys-R-Us.

 

8 Q. Did your children go to Toys-R-Us?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. Which one of those weekends did they go?

 

11 A. I don’t recall.

 

12 Q. But you do recall a trip?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. And they went with Mr. Jackson?

 

15 A. Yes.

 

16 Q. And it was after hours, the store was

 

17 closed?

 

18 A. I don’t remember.

 

19 Q. And they were allowed to buy anything — or

 

20 allowed to get anything they wanted and Mr. Jackson

 

21 paid for it, correct?

 

22 A. I think so.

 

23 Q. So as I understand it, then, it’s your

 

24 testimony that if Mr. Jackson had wanted to go to

 

25 Japan with your son, on this first time that you’d

 

26 met him, that you would have allowed that?

 

27 A. I doubt that —

 

28 Q. You had agreed to that? 9225

 

1 A. I don’t think so. I don’t think I would

 

2 have agreed to that.

 

3 Q. Do you recall testifying in your deposition

 

4 that you had agreed to allow him to go to Japan?

 

5 A. No.

 

6 Q. You had decided early on in your son’s

 

7 career, or life, actually, that you wanted to get

 

8 him into the entertainment business, correct?

 

9 A. He decided. Not me.

 

10 Q. Well, he was five years old.

 

11 A. Yes. He made that decision at five.

 

12 Q. At five. It was all his decision?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. Okay. And you were going to do everything

 

15 you could as a good mother to try to support that

 

16 decision, correct?

 

17 A. Yes.

 

18 Q. And you felt that your having a good

 

19 relationship or connection with the defendant in

 

20 this case could promote that career; isn’t that

 

21 correct?

 

22 A. That’s — you’re putting words in my mouth.

 

23 I’ve never said that.

 

24 Q. I didn’t ask you whether you said it or not.

 

25 I asked you if that’s what you were thinking.

 

26 A. No.

 

27 Q. You weren’t thinking that at all?

 

28 A. Not at all. 9226

 

1 Q. You weren’t thinking that Mr. Jackson could

 

2 help propel your son in an entertainment career?

 

3 A. That was not my motive.

 

4 Q. I — I’m not trying to —

 

5 A. Yes, you are.

 

6 Q. — demean your motives.

 

7 No, I’m not, ma’am. I’m asking a simple

 

8 question. Did you, in your mind, think that by

 

9 having a friendship and a connection with Mr.

 

10 Jackson that could help promote your son’s career?

 

11 A. I can’t answer that, because I don’t think

 

12 that that — you’re make — you’re trying to make me

 

13 say that that was my basis for our friendship, and

 

14 that’s not true.

 

15 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike as

 

16 nonresponsive.

 

17 THE COURT: Stricken.

 

18 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I asked you a question

 

19 about whose decision it was to cancel the trip to

 

20 Japan. And I asked you if it was, in fact, Mr.

 

21 Jackson — that you had stated previously in your

 

22 testimony it was Mr. Jackson, and you said you had

 

23 no recollection of that, correct?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. And did you have a chance to review your

 

26 deposition for Mr. Feldman prior to coming to court

 

27 here today?

 

28 A. I don’t remember reading that. 9227

 

1 Q. Would it help you to refresh your

 

2 recollection if I showed you the deposition?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 MR. SNEDDON: With the Court’s permission,

 

5 Your Honor.

 

6 THE COURT: You may.

 

7 MR. SNEDDON: Or Mr. Mesereau? Bob?

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: That’s okay.

 

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: The procedure is you just

 

10 read that to yourself quietly, and then I’ll ask you

 

11 a question, okay? And I want to direct your

 

12 attention to page 181, and from lines 4 to line 9.

 

13 And you can read anything else you want.

 

14 A. Okay.

 

15 Q. Having read that, does that refresh your

 

16 recollection as to whose idea it was to cancel the

 

17 trip to Japan?

 

18 A. Well, it says that Wade was given the

 

19 choice, and Wade preferred to stay at Neverland.

 

20 Q. It says, “After the first weekend that we

 

21 were there, he cancelled the trip because he wanted

 

22 to stay and spend some time with us,” does it not?

 

23 A. If you read further down.

 

24 Q. Yeah, it says, “But he asked to go on this

 

25 trip with your son,” and “I offered to let Wade go

 

26 with him”?

 

27 A. Further.

 

28 Q. Do you want me to read the whole thing? 9228

 

1 A. No, just a couple, few more lines.

 

2 Q. It doesn’t get any better.

 

3 A. Just a few more lines. It will say exactly

 

4 what I said.

 

5 Q. And then Wade had a choice of going to Japan

 

6 or staying at Neverland, and he chose to stay?

 

7 A. Yeah. That’s what I said, Wade was given

 

8 the choice. And he decided to stay at Neverland.

 

9 Q. But it was the defendant’s choice not to go

 

10 to Japan, as you testified.

 

11 A. He had a business trip and he cancelled it,

 

12 and because Wade decided to stay at Neverland, but

 

13 it was Wade’s choice.

 

14 Q. Thank you.

 

15 After this trip, you went back to Australia,

 

16 correct?

 

17 A. Yes.

 

18 Q. And before we get to when you come back,

 

19 which I think is in May of 1990, correct?

 

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. I want to ask you a few things about

 

22 the tour of the house. And when you went to the

 

23 house at Neverland Ranch, did you go throughout the

 

24 entire house?

 

25 A. The first trip?

 

26 Q. Yes, ma’am.

 

27 A. Actually, yes.

 

28 Q. So you were shown the entire house? 9229

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Including Mr. Jackson’s bedroom?

 

3 A. Well, actually, we arrived before Mr.

 

4 Jackson, my parents and I. And Mark Quindoy showed

 

5 us through the house.

 

6 Q. Okay.

 

7 A. I don’t think we went into Michael’s bedroom

 

8 initially.

 

9 Q. At some point during that tour or during

 

10 that weekend, did you go into Mr. Jackson’s bedroom?

 

11 A. Yes.

Sneddon tried to use Jackson’s bedroom alarms as a sign of Jackson’s guilt in order to raise suspicion among the jurors, as well as the number of locks on the doors to Jackson’s bedroom. It’s pretty pathetic that at this point in the trial, Sneddon was still trying to use the alarms as a sign that Jackson had nefarious motives, when in fact they helped vindicate him of Star Arvizo’s claims of having not once, but twice walking upstairs to the upper level of Jackson’s bedroom suite and see Jackson molesting Gavin, who he claimed was passed out from being drunk! You can read more about this lie in this post.

12 Q. When you go into Mr. Jackson’s bedroom, you

 

13 walk down a hallway before you get to the entrance

 

14 to the door to his bedroom, correct?

 

15 A. Yes.

 

16 Q. And as you go down that hallway and you

 

17 approach the door, a little chime goes off, correct?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. And the door cannot be opened from the

 

20 outside, correct, it’s locked?

 

21 A. I think so, yes. From memory.

 

22 Q. Now, when you went through the rest of the

 

23 house, did you find any chimes that went off in any

 

24 of the other rooms in the house?

 

25 A. No.

 

26 Q. And it’s true, is it not, that none of the

 

27 other doors in the house had locks on them?

 

28 A. There was no one else staying in any of the 9230

 

1 other rooms.

 

2 Q. No, I asked you whether there were any other

 

3 rooms in the house where you had to have somebody

 

4 from inside open the door in order to get into the

 

5 room?

 

6 A. No.

 

7 Q. So you were aware of the fact that at the

 

8 time that you allowed your children to sleep with

 

9 Mr. Jackson on the first day or night that you met

 

10 him, that those children were going to be in a

 

11 location which you could not get to without somebody

 

12 from the inside opening the door, correct?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. Is there something funny about that?

 

15 A. I just — it’s not a problem.

 

16 Q. I can understand. You weren’t concerned

 

17 about it at all?

 

18 A. Not at all.

 

19 Q. Somebody you just met?

 

20 A. I — I think there’s a certain trust that we

 

21 developed immediately. Nothing ever crossed my mind

 

22 that there would be a problem there.

Next, Joy was interrogated about giving approval for Wade to sleep in Jackson’s hotel suite, in an obvious attempt to make her look like an unfit mother in front of the jury. She testified that when Jackson was staying at the Holiday Inn, and she would walk Wade across the street to spend the night with Jackson alone. I’m willing to bet that Wade will say in his upcoming lawsuit that this is one of the occasions when he was “molested” by Jackson:

23 Q. In May, when you came back, it was for the

 

24 purpose of your son participating in an L.A. Gear

 

25 commercial?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. And who arranged for him to be in that

 

28 commercial? 9231

 

1 A. Michael.

 

2 Q. And Mr. Jackson paid his way over here,

 

3 correct?

 

4 A. L.A. Gear paid.

 

5 Q. And how did you — how was yours paid?

 

6 A. L.A. Gear. He was a minor.

 

7 Q. L.A. Gear paid for that?

 

8 A. Yes, they have to if a minor’s working.

 

9 Q. Do you recall testifying at your deposition

 

10 that that was paid for by Mr. Jackson?

 

11 A. I testified that L.A. Gear paid for it. I

 

12 read that when I reviewed it.

 

13 Q. Now, at the time that you came over here for

 

14 the L.A. Gear commercial, you were staying in The

 

15 Holiday Inn?

 

16 A. Yes. In Westwood.

 

17 Q. And you were here for approximately six

 

18 weeks?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. And Mr. Jackson had a condo right across the

 

21 street?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. And you testified before, I believe, that

 

24 during that six-week period on at least half of the

 

25 occasions that your son was with Mr. Jackson in Mr.

 

26 Jackson’s bedroom in that condo, correct?

 

27 A. I think so.

 

28 Q. And on a couple of those occasions, you 9232

 

1 actually were in the condo with them and you and

 

2 your daughter, or you, slept on the floor; do you

 

3 recall that?

 

4 A. I think that was the first trip that my

 

5 daughter and I slept on the floor. It wasn’t during

 

6 that time.

 

7 Q. The first trip back in January?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Was there a time that you visited Mr.

 

10 Jackson in his condo in January?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. Now, these visits to The Holiday — these

 

13 visits to Mr. Jackson when you were staying at The

 

14 Holiday Inn, many of those calls from Mr. Jackson

 

15 were very late at night; isn’t that correct?

 

16 A. Yes, he was working.

 

17 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike as

 

18 nonresponsive, Your Honor.

 

19 THE COURT: I’ll strike the last — after

 

20 “Yes.”

 

21 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And he would call, and on

 

22 some occasions you would walk your son across the

 

23 street, correct?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. And you’d leave him there and go back to the

 

26 hotel?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. And there was just he and Mr. Jackson 9233

 

1 together?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. And you knew that at that particular point

 

4 in time, that he was sleeping with Mr. Jackson in

 

5 Mr. Jackson’s bed, correct?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. When you came over to make the L.A. Gear

 

8 commercial, did your husband come with you?

 

9 A. No.

 

10 Q. At this point in time, were you and your

 

11 husband separated?

 

12 A. No.

 

13 Q. And your daughter didn’t come with you?

14 A. No. She was in school.

 

15 Q. Okay. Now, during the six-month period, I

 

16 want to just concentrate on the period that we’re

 

17 talking about, the May visit, you also visited the

 

18 ranch on occasion, did you not?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. And when you visited the ranch on those

 

21 occasions, you slept in the guest cottage, correct?

 

22 A. No, I slept in the house.

 

23 Q. And where in the house?

 

24 A. In the rose bedroom. In the rose bedroom.

 

25 Q. Okay. And your son slept with Mr. Jackson?

 

26 A. Yes.

Sneddon segued into an incident that occurred on Mother’s Day in 1990 where Joy cried and complained that her son was spending too much time with Jackson, and preferred to be with Jackson instead of her. Upon reading her 1993 deposition, she acknowledged that she did indeed say that she though Wade was spending too much time with Jackson, but she certainly didn’t mean to imply that she was suspicious of Jackson. What 13 year old boy would want to hang out with his mother over Michael Jackson?!! EVERYONE wanted to be around Jackson!

27 Q. Now, do you recall an incident that occurred

 

28 on Mother’s Day during 1990 on a trip to the ranch? 9234

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. And you were upset, correct?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. And you were crying at one point?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. And the reason for that was that you had not

 

7 seen your son all day, correct?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. And it was Mother’s Day?

 

10 A. That’s right.

 

11 Q. And you found out that the reason that you

 

12 hadn’t seen your son that day was because he had

 

13 been sleeping all day, correct?

 

14 A. I think so. Yeah.

 

15 Q. And you spoke to some people at the ranch

 

16 about your feelings, did you not, one of the

 

17 employees?

 

18 A. I think someone asked me if I was okay.

 

19 Q. And you told them that you felt that your

 

20 son would rather be with Michael Jackson than with

 

21 you, correct?

 

22 A. I don’t remember saying that.

 

23 Q. Do you know somebody by the name of Charli

 

24 Michaels?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. And who is Charli Michaels?

 

27 A. I think she worked security at the ranch.

 

28 Q. And did you tell Charli Michaels that you 9235

 

1 felt that the defendant, Michael Jackson, was

 

2 separating you from your son?

 

3 A. I don’t recall saying it.

 

4 Q. Do you recall testifying to that in your

 

5 deposition with Mr. Feldman?

 

6 A. No.

 

7 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I

 

8 showed you a copy of the deposition?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 MR. SNEDDON: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

11 THE COURT: Yes.

 

12 THE WITNESS: Okay.

 

13 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Does that refresh your

 

14 recollection?

 

15 A. I don’t remember saying it, but I testified

 

16 to it.

 

17 Q. I’m sorry?

 

18 A. I said I don’t remember saying it, but

 

19 obviously I testified back then about it. I don’t

 

20 remember saying it.

 

21 Q. You said that Wade would rather be with

 

22 Michael than with yourself and you were upset about

 

23 it?

 

24 A. Well, I read it, but I honestly don’t

 

25 remember saying it.

 

26 Q. At the time that you were at the ranch on

 

27 the first occasions that you were there, to your

 

28 knowledge, did Michael Jackson have a personal maid? 9236

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. And who was that?

 

3 A. I don’t remember.

 

4 Q. Do you remember meeting anybody by the name

 

5 of Blanca Francia?

 

6 A. I remember her being there. I think she did

 

7 clean Michael’s room, I think.

Sneddon tried to further erode Joy’s credibility by having her admit that when she testified under direct examination that she had never seen any inappropriate behavior by Jackson, she had only seen him in person four times in the fourteen years she had lived in the USA. Afterwards, he further sullied Jackson’s reputation by having Joy confirm that she testified in a deposition in 1993 that Jackson had a habit of “dumping” his young friends, and it had a terrible emotional impact on them:

8 Q. Now, during the time that you — let me just

 

9 go through this real quickly so we can get up to the

 

10 time frame involved here.

 

11 You came back in May of 1990, correct?

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. And you were here for six weeks, correct?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. And then you came back again in February of

 

16 1991, correct?

 

17 A. Yes.

 

18 Q. For about seven days?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. And during the time that you were here in

 

21 1991, you spent time on the ranch, correct?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. You and your son?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. And then in September 1991 — well, let me

 

26 go back. When you came here in February of 1991 for

 

27 seven days, did your husband come with you?

 

28 A. No. 9237

 

1 Q. When you visited in September of 1991, you

 

2 came permanently, correct?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. You had no intention of going back to

 

5 Australia?

 

6 A. No.

 

7 Q. And you had your son and your daughter with

 

8 you?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. And your husband did not come?

 

11 A. No.

 

12 Q. And at that point you had been separated

 

13 from your husband?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. And then from that point, from September of

 

16 1991 up till, let’s just say, September 1993 –

 

17 okay? – the time frame involved, you and your son

 

18 spent a great deal of time with Michael Jackson, you

 

19 were around him a lot, correct?

 

20 A. I don’t think so.

 

21 Q. You were not at the ranch on a number of

 

22 occasions during 1991?

 

23 A. My memory is in the entire time we’ve lived

 

24 here since 1991, we’ve only been at the ranch with

 

25 Michael on four occasions in 14 years.

 

26 Q. Four occasions?

 

27 A. Every other time we’ve been here without

 

28 him. 9238

 

1 Q. Would that be the same for your son?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. So —

 

4 A. He came one — all the time by himself.

 

5 Q. You testified that you’ve been out at the

 

6 ranch on an average of about four times?

7 A. Four times a year, but Michael was never

 

8 there.

 

9 Q. Was that all the way through today?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. He’s never there when you go there?

 

12 A. Very rarely. I can only remember four times

 

13 in 14 years that we’ve been there with him since we

 

14 have lived here.

 

15 Q. So when you were testifying for Mr. Mesereau

 

16 and you were talking about ever seeing any

 

17 inappropriate touching, there were only on four

 

18 occasions that you were even at the ranch to see

 

19 anything, correct?

 

20 A. Since we’ve lived here, 1991.

 

21 Q. You didn’t see anything before that, did

 

22 you?

 

23 A. No.

 

24 Q. Do you recall having a conversation in which

 

25 you — with June Chandler? Do you know who June

 

26 Chandler is?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. June Chandler is whom? 9239

 

1 A. Jordie Chandler’s mother.

 

2 Q. You’ve met June Chandler?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. You’ve met Jordan Chandler?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. Jordan Chandler was at Neverland Valley

 

7 Ranch at the same time as your son, correct?

 

8 A. We were all there together on one weekend.

 

9 Q. Okay. And do you recall testifying to a

 

10 situation in which your son, Wade, was upset because

 

11 Jordan Chandler was going to spend the night in

 

12 Michael Jackson’s room and Wade had to stay with you

 

13 in the guest cottage?

 

14 A. I don’t remember that. I remember reading

 

15 it in my testimony, but I don’t remember him being

 

16 upset.

 

17 Q. Maybe I’ll use a different word.

 

18 Disappointed?

 

19 A. Possibly.

 

20 Q. But you do remember the incident?

 

21 A. No.

 

22 Q. You don’t?

 

23 A. No.

 

24 Q. So when you said you read your transcript,

 

25 it’s in your transcript, right?

 

26 A. I read it in the transcript, but it’s 12

 

27 years ago. I don’t remember it.

 

28 Q. I understand. Do you have any reason to 9240

 

1 believe that you would testify to something under

 

2 oath in a deposition that wasn’t true at the time

 

3 that you said it?

 

4 A. No, I just don’t remember it now.

 

5 Q. Okay. Do you recall a conversation in which

 

6 you told June Chandler that some day Jordan was

 

7 going to be replaced by another one of Michael

 

8 Jackson’s friends?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. And you referred to these people as “special

 

11 friends,” correct?

 

12 A. According to my transcript, yes.

 

13 Q. You don’t ever remember using that phrase

 

14 now?

 

15 A. No.

 

16 Q. But you did use it in your transcript back

 

17 in 1993?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. And in a conversation you told June Chandler

 

20 that with these special friends, that when Mr.

 

21 Jackson moves on to the next special friend, that it

 

22 has a tremendous emotional impact on the children

 

23 when they’re no longer the favorite, correct?

 

24 A. As does everybody when they lose a friend.

 

25 Q. I’m sorry?

 

26 A. As does everyone if you lose a friend or a

 

27 friend becomes friendly with somebody else.

 

28 Q. Did you not, in that conversation, 9241

 

1 specifically refer to the situation where a young

 

2 child was a friend of Mr. Jackson’s and is replaced

 

3 by another young child and that that has — and you

 

4 were reflecting upon the emotional problems it

 

5 creates for that child?

 

6 A. Yes.

Next, Sneddon tried to reinforce to the jury the stereotype that children lose all sense of discipline and authority at Neverland, and that was just totally overblown by both the prosecution and media. Joy testified that Sneddon misinterpreted Wade’s actions by stating that he and Jackson threw rocks at the cage that the lion was confined in, and not the lion itself. And it’s absolutely ironic and hypocritical that Sneddon would ask about whether or not Wade was ever admonished for driving the golf carts too fast, or getting into any accidents, when both Star and Gavin Arvizo were severely reprimanded for this! They even drove the go-karts off the property and onto the main road! You can read more about their misbehavior in this defense pleading titled “Notice of Motion and Motion to Admit Evidence of Gavin and Star Arvizo’s Sexual Conduct

7 Q. Now, during the time that you were at the

 

8 ranch — you described a situation this morning for

 

9 the jury, you told them that when you go to

 

10 Neverland it’s like walking through a door and you

 

11 forget all your worries and all your cares.

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. That’s a paraphrase so….

 

14 Now, it’s also true that what happens at

 

15 Neverland Ranch, is it not, that when children come

 

16 on the ranch, they sort of lose all of their rules

 

17 and guidelines for conduct?

 

18 A. Well, that depends on the child.

 

19 Q. Okay. With regard to the time you were at

 

20 the ranch, the children that you saw were your

 

21 son —

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. — correct?

 

24 And your daughter, correct?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. And you saw Jordan Chandler, correct?

 

27 A. Once.

 

28 Q. And you saw Macaulay Culkin? 9242

 

1 A. I don’t think I’ve been there with Macaulay

 

2 Culkin.

 

3 Q. Brett Barnes?

 

4 A. I’ve never been there with Brett.

 

5 Q. With regard to the conduct of your son when

 

6 he was on the ranch, did he get carried away, do

 

7 things there that he didn’t do other places in terms

 

8 of manners?

 

9 A. No.

 

10 Q. He was perfectly —

 

11 A. My son was always respectful, always

 

12 considered it a privilege to be there.

 

13 Q. Did he ever do anything that you would think

 

14 that would not be a good thing to do?

 

15 A. Not that I’m aware of.

 

16 Q. Are you aware that he was throwing pebbles

 

17 or rocks at the lions with Mr. Jackson?

 

18 A. I think that’s been paraphrased. I think

 

19 what they did is they threw them at the cage, not

 

20 the lion.

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike as

 

22 nonresponsive, Your Honor.

 

23 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.

 

24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: So you make a distinction

 

25 between throwing them at the cage and the lion

 

26 itself?

 

27 A. Absolutely. They were just trying to make

 

28 the lion roar. All it did was make a noise. 9243

 

1 Q. I see. How about — does your son ride the

2 go-carts there?

 

3 A. Go-carts or the golf carts?

 

4 Q. The golf carts.

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. Ever have any problems with getting in any

 

7 accidents while he was there or driving too fast or

 

8 being admonished for driving too fast?

 

9 A. He may have been admonished for driving

 

10 fast. He was never in an accident.

 

11 Q. The other children that I’ve mentioned, did

 

12 you seem them acting out at all at Neverland Ranch?

 

13 A. I heard stories. I’ve never seen it.

Sneddon revisited yet another incident where Joy was unable to locate her son because he was hanging out with Jackson:

14 Q. Now, when you testified about Mr. Jackson

 

15 and his special friends in your deposition, you

 

16 mentioned that the first of the ones that you knew

 

17 about was your son Wade in 1990, correct?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. And then in 1991 was Macaulay Culkin,

 

20 correct?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. And in 1992, Brett Barnes, correct?

 

23 A. I think so.

 

24 Q. And then in 1993, towards the end, was

 

25 Jordan Chandler, correct?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. With regard to Brett Barnes, you went to

 

28 Chicago with your — or I should ask you this: Did 9244

 

1 you go to Chicago with your son to shoot a

 

2 commercial?

 

3 A. A music video, yes.

 

4 Q. And did you go there?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. And with your son?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. And did you meet Brett Barnes there?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. And was Brett Barnes with the defendant?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. And in fact, Brett Barnes was staying with

 

13 the defendant in the defendant’s room, correct?

 

14 A. I don’t know.

 

15 Q. Did you see whether or not — did you meet

 

16 any of the Barnes’ parents there?

 

17 A. His mother and his sister were there on the

 

18 set.

 

19 Q. You sure of that?

 

20 A. Yes.

 

21 Q. And was it your — you became aware of the

 

22 fact that Mr. Jackson referred to some of these

 

23 young boys as his cousins, correct?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. And you were asked why Mr. Jackson referred

 

26 to them as his cousins, correct?

 

27 A. I was asked?

 

28 Q. Didn’t you say that Mr. Jackson used the 9245

 

1 term “cousins” because he didn’t want the kids to

 

2 get jealous of each other?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. Now, do you recall an incident that occurred

 

5 where you were supposed to catch a plane and you

 

6 couldn’t find your son?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. And the fact is that you hadn’t seen or

 

9 heard from your son for two or three days?

 

10 A. I think two.

 

11 Q. And he had been with Mr. Jackson during that

 

12 entire time; correct?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 Q. And I believe what you said was you were

 

15 upset and you were hurt by this, correct?

 

16 A. I don’t remember that.

 

17 Q. You called a number of people trying to

 

18 locate your son, correct?

 

19 A. I was trying to call Michael, and he was in

 

20 the recording studio, not answering, not receiving

 

21 phone calls. And I think I called Neverland to see

 

22 if they had gone to Neverland.

 

23 Q. Well, you called Neverland and you got the

 

24 Quindoy — Mr. Quindoy, correct?

 

25 A. I don’t remember.

 

26 Q. Do you know who Mr. Quindoy is?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. And you were very upset and wanted your son 9246

 

1 to be returned so he could make the flight?

 

2 A. I called to ask if they perhaps were at

 

3 Neverland. That’s all I remember.

 

4 Q. You don’t remember saying that you needed

 

5 your son returned, that you were very upset and you

 

6 were going to miss the plane?

 

7 A. No, I don’t.

 

8 Q. Did you call Norma Stakos trying to locate

 

9 your son?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. So just to recap just a little bit, when you

 

12 were in Las Vegas, you went there by jet. Do you

 

13 know whose jet that was?

 

14 A. Steve Wynn.

 

15 Q. I’m sorry?

 

16 A. Steve Wynn’s jet.

 

17 Q. Steve Wynn. And you went to a hotel?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. Which is The Mirage?

 

20 A. Mirage.

 

21 Q. And you stayed in a suite?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. And except for the night — or the day when

 

24 you all stayed in bed watching cartoons, eating

 

25 popcorn, your son slept with Mr. Jackson and you

 

26 slept in the other room?

 

27 A. It was one night, yes.

Sneddon tried to discredit Joy again by questioning her true motives for moving to the USA from Australia and implying that she was just using her connection with Jackson to help her son with his entertainment career, and pointing out all of the extra advantages that being a friend of Jackson gave her and her family. This was done in an attempt to show the jury that the Robsons had financial motivations for defending Jackson, thus eroding their credibility:

28 Q. And now, when you came to the United States 9247

 

1 in 1991, in September, you came here on a —

 

2 originally you came here on a visa, temporary visa?

 

3 A. A six-month visitor’s visa.

 

4 Q. Okay. And your goal was to stay here

 

5 permanently?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. And your goal was that you came because Mr.

 

8 Jackson had indicated to you that he was going to

 

9 help your son in his career, correct?

 

10 A. I’m not sure about that.

 

11 Q. Do you remember testifying in your

 

12 deposition that the defendant had arranged deals for

 

13 Wade with his — Sony records, Sony movies and Sony

 

14 T.V.?

 

15 A. No, that came after the fact. After we’d

 

16 been here. He didn’t promise anything when we came.

 

17 He actually came to work on the “Black and White”

 

18 video.

 

19 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, move to strike the

 

20 comments. No question pending.

 

21 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll object, Your Honor, the

 

22 prosecutor didn’t allow her to complete her answer.

 

23 THE COURT: Sustained. The request to

 

24 strike is denied.

 

25 MR. MESEREAU: May the witness be allowed to

 

26 complete her answer, Your Honor?

 

27 THE COURT: Yes.

 

28 Do you want your answer read back as far as 9248

 

1 you gave it?

 

2 THE WITNESS: No.

 

3 He came here originally in 1991 to work on

 

4 the “Black or White” video, and we stayed after

 

5 that. That was the reason for coming in the first

 

6 place.

 

7 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. I want to ask it

 

8 again, just to be clear.

 

9 Did Mr. Jackson tell you, before you left

 

10 Australia, that he would help you in any way he

 

11 could with his record company, his movie company,

 

12 and his television company, and these were three

 

13 deals that he had organized with Sony, correct?

 

14 A. There were no deals organized. He did say

 

15 he would do what he could to help, but there were no

 

16 deals organized.

 

17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if you

 

18 looked at your testimony before the grand jury?

 

19 A. There were no deals. If I testified — I

 

20 don’t think I would have testified to that.

 

21 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if you

 

22 looked at it to see whether you testified to that?

 

23 A. Yes.

 

24 Okay.

 

25 Q. Does that refresh your recollection as to

 

26 what you told the grand jury?

 

27 A. No. I don’t remember that.

 

28 Q. You don’t remember telling them that he’d 9249

 

1 organized three deals for your son?

 

2 A. Well, he didn’t, so I don’t remember it.

 

3 Q. But that’s what you said?

4 A. I don’t know what I meant there. There was

 

5 nothing organized.

 

6 Q. Did you say in the grand jury that you

 

7 considered these arrangements to be a personal

 

8 commitment from Mr. Jackson directly to you?

 

9 A. No.

 

10 Q. You didn’t say that?

 

11 A. I don’t remember saying that. There was no

 

12 commitment.

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

14 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I

 

15 showed you your testimony before the grand jury?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 THE COURT: Yes, you may approach.

 

18 MR. SNEDDON: May I approach?

 

19 THE COURT: Yes.

 

20 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: It’s just one line. Or two

 

21 lines.

 

22 Does that refresh your recollection as to

 

23 what you told the Santa Barbara County Grand Jury?

 

24 A. No.

 

25 Q. It does not at all?

 

26 A. No.

 

27 Q. But you did say that?

 

28 A. Obviously I did. I have no memory of it. 9250

 

1 Q. And when you came here in September 1991,

 

2 Mr. Jackson also helped you with some rent for the

 

3 first month, correct?

 

4 A. That was part of the video — you’re always

 

5 housed when you come to work on a music video.

 

6 Q. I think the question was did Mr. Jackson pay

 

7 for your rent the first month you were here?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Now, when you came here in September, you

 

10 also went to work for MJJ Productions, correct?

 

11 A. No.

 

12 Q. You — let’s see if I get this right. You

 

13 had a job in a — cosmetics?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. And because you were here on a certain kind

 

16 of visa, they couldn’t pay you; is that correct?

 

17 A. They did pay me, but they paid me through

 

18 Michael Jackson’s company.

 

19 Q. So your checks were from MJJ Productions?

 

20 A. Well, that makes it sound like MJJ

 

21 Productions was paying me. They were not.

 

22 Q. I just — the question was, the checks came

 

23 from MJJ Productions?

 

24 A. They were diverted through Michael Jackson’s

 

25 company.

 

26 Q. In other words, your company would pay them

 

27 the money, and then Mr. Jackson’s company would pay

 

28 you the money? 9251

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Just in all fairness. I’m not trying to

 

3 trick you.

 

4 A. Okay.

 

5 Q. And that arrangement was worked out with the

 

6 approval and the help of Mr. Jackson, correct?

 

7 A. I think so. I’m — I mean, I didn’t speak

 

8 to him about it. I spoke to Norma Stakos about it.

 

9 Q. Do you recall telling and testifying to the

 

10 fact that what actually happened in September of

 

11 1991 is that Mr. Jackson was your sponsor when you

 

12 came to the United States with your son?

 

13 A. Not initially. We were here for six months

 

14 and then he offered, he offered to sponsor after we

 

15 arrived.

 

16 Q. You mentioned to this jury that at some

 

17 point in time, you realized that your son was

 

18 spending time in bed with Mr. Jackson, correct,

 

19 sleeping in the same bed with Mr. Jackson?

 

20 A. Correct.

 

21 Q. Okay. And in fact, you indicated in prior

 

22 testimony that you realized that and knew that early

 

23 on in the relationship between your son and Mr.

 

24 Jackson, correct?

 

25 A. Correct.

Finally, Sneddon’s cross examination came to an end by asking Joy if she was aware that Jackson had been accused of child molestation during the six months that Wade’s recording contract with MJJ Productions was negotiated (she was fully aware; in fact, it caused a significant delay in the negotiations for Wade’s recording contract with Jackson’s MJJ Music label), her concern that law enforcement would manipulate Wade into confessing to being abused by Jackson (other parents complained about this, including Blanca Francia; read this February 1994 article titled “Officials Desperate To Nail Jackson” below for more info), and if she withdrew Wade from school because he was being teased at school for sleeping in bed with Jackson (she withdrew him from school to begin homeschooling long before the Chandler allegations surfaced):

26 Q. Okay. We’re almost done.

 

27 Let’s fast-forward a little bit to 1993.

 

28 You were — you were at the ranch in 1993 and Jordan 9252

 

1 Chandler was there, correct?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. And in 1993, that was the occasion of you

 

4 having the conversation with Mrs. Chandler that

 

5 you’ve described to the ladies and gentlemen of the

 

6 jury previously, correct?

 

7 A. Correct.

 

8 Q. And during this particular point in time,

 

9 not January, but in 1993, at some point, your son

 

10 was in the process of putting together an album deal

 

11 where he — he or somebody with him would cut some

 

12 records, correct?

 

13 A. Correct.

 

14 Q. And the negotiations began on that deal

 

15 when?

 

16 A. From memory, June of ‘93.

 

17 Q. And I think you described that process as

 

18 about a six-month process?

 

19 A. Well, it varies. But that one took that

 

20 long, yes.

 

21 Q. And the deal was finally signed on December

 

22 6th, 1993, correct?

 

23 A. Correct.

 

24 Q. And the deal was signed with — with MJJ

 

25 Productions, correct?

 

26 A. Correct.

 

27 Q. And in the deal, your son — not your son —

 

28 the total deal was for $100,000, correct? 9253

 

1 A. The production company.

 

2 Q. Right. And your son’s share of that was

 

3 $30,000?

 

4 A. Correct.

 

5 Q. And 15,000 of that was given as an advance?

 

6 A. I think so.

 

7 Q. And this was in December of 1993, correct?

 

8 A. I don’t really remember. I think according

 

9 to the transcripts that’s what it said.

 

10 Q. And you took — well, let me go back. There

 

11 was a period of time — where were you on

 

12 Thanksgiving? Do you remember where you went

 

13 Thanksgiving? Did you go to New York Thanksgiving?

 

14 A. I read the transcript. We were in New York

 

15 recording.

 

16 Q. Okay. With who?

 

17 A. With the production company and they were

 

18 recording for the album.

 

19 Q. Okay. And up until the point of

 

20 Thanksgiving of 1993, the record deal had not been

 

21 finalized yet between your son and their

 

22 representatives and Mr. Jackson’s company, correct?

 

23 A. Correct.

 

24 Q. And there had been — there had been some

 

25 delay in the signing of the contracts, correct?

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. And one of the things that had happened in

 

28 between the time that you first started negotiating 9254

 

1 the contracts in June or July and December 6 when

 

2 you finally signed the contract with Mr. Jackson’s

 

3 company was that Jordan Chandler had gone to the

 

4 Department of Social Services in the Los Angeles

 

5 District Attorney’s Office and reported that he’d

 

6 been molested by Michael Jackson, correct?

 

7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Objection;

 

8 assumes facts not in evidence.

 

9 MR. SNEDDON: I’m asking what she’s aware

 

10 of, Your Honor, and it has to do with motive and

 

11 bias.

 

12 THE COURT: Just a moment.

 

13 MR. MESEREAU: No foundation.

 

14 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.

 

15 You may answer.

 

16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: You were aware of that,

 

17 were you not?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. And in fact — well, let me ask you this:

 

20 You know a person, or knew a person by the name of

 

21 Anthony Pellicano, did you not?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. And Mr. Pellicano was Mr. Jackson’s private

 

24 investigator, correct?

 

25 A. Correct.

 

26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; beyond the scope.

 

27 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And Mr. Pellicano was the 9255

 

1 one who was holding up the deal, correct?

 

2 A. Correct.

 

3 Q. He told you that?

 

4 A. Yes.

 

5 Q. And the deal was finally signed on December

 

6 6th because the defendant intervened and said, “Go

 

7 ahead and sign the deal,” correct?

 

8 A. Correct.

 

9 Q. In the meantime, Mr. Pellicano had given you

 

10 a $12,000 loan, correct?

 

11 A. 10,000.

 

12 Q. 10,000, you’re right. Absolutely. Pardon

 

13 me. $10,000 loan?

 

14 A. Correct.

 

15 Q. And did you ever repay that?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. When?

 

18 A. I don’t remember.

 

19 Q. Do you have any proof?

 

20 A. Probably. I don’t remember when it was.

 

21 Q. When’s the last time you saw Mr. Pellicano?

 

22 A. I haven’t seen him since. I have not seen

 

23 him since ‘93.

 

24 Q. Since ‘93. So it’s your testimony you paid

 

25 him back in ‘93?

 

26 A. It was sometime after that.

 

27 Q. Mr. Pellicano was Mr. Jackson’s investigator

 

28 and you had at least four conversations with him, 9256

 

1 interviews, you and your son, correct?

 

2 A. Probably.

 

3 Q. And that was after Mr. Jackson got back in

 

4 December of 1993?

 

5 A. I don’t remember.

 

6 Q. You were asked by Mr. Feldman to give a

 

7 statement to an investigator, and you refused — for

 

8 his office, and you refused to do that, didn’t you?

 

9 A. I don’t remember. I’m sorry.

 

10 Q. Do you remember the Los Angeles Police

 

11 Department coming to your apartment?

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. And you didn’t give them a statement either,

 

14 did you?

 

15 A. Yes.

 

16 Q. You gave them a very brief one and then said

 

17 you had to go somewhere. Isn’t that what happened?

 

18 A. No, they were trying to interview Wade

 

19 without me and I told them they were not to do that.

 

20 Q. Was there some concern on your part that

 

21 trained law enforcement officers shouldn’t talk to

 

22 somebody who could possibly be a suspect (sic) of a

 

23 crime?

 

24 A. I was concerned of manipulation.

 

25 Q. That the consequence, law enforcement would

 

26 manipulate your son?

 

27 A. Absolutely.

 

28 Q. You felt that your son could be manipulated 9257

 

1 easily?

 

2 A. No, but I wasn’t going to take that chance.

 

3 He was ten.

 

4 Q. You weren’t concerned about the fact that

 

5 the defendant in this case, Mr. Jackson, might

 

6 manipulate your son?

 

7 A. No concern at all that he would manipulate

 

8 my son.

 

9 Q. But two law enforcement officers, you

 

10 thought they would?

 

11 A. Possibly. I don’t know them. I know Mr.

 

12 Jackson.

 

13 Q. Okay. Now, you received another — you

 

14 received actually a loan from Mr. Jackson for

 

15 $10,000 in 1992, correct?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. You never paid that one back?

 

18 A. No.

 

19 Q. And did you receive another loan from Mr.

 

20 Jackson after the record contract was signed?

 

21 A. I don’t think so.

 

22 Q. Do you recall telling an investigator that

 

23 you had gotten a loan from Mr. Jackson for $10,000

 

24 and you tried to buy a car? Do you remember that?

 

25 A. He paid — he paid for the balance of the

 

26 car.

 

27 Q. Mr. Jackson did?

 

28 A. Yes. 9258

 

1 Q. That was $10,000?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. Now, in December of 1993, after the

 

4 allegations with Jordan Chandler had surfaced, Mr.

 

5 Jackson came back to the United States, correct?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. And on — to your knowledge, on the very

 

8 first night he was back he called your son, correct?

 

9 A. He called me.

 

10 Q. He called you?

 

11 A. I think so. From memory.

 

12 Q. Do you remember testifying that you weren’t

 

13 at the house when the call was made, that you were

 

14 out with some ladies?

 

15 A. I do remember reading that, I’m sorry.

 

16 Q. So you weren’t there?

 

17 A. Possibly.

 

18 Q. You came home, and then both of you, late in

 

19 the night, drove to Neverland Valley Ranch, correct?

 

20 A. Correct.

 

21 Q. When you got to Neverland Valley Ranch, it

 

22 was about 1:30 in the morning, correct?

 

23 A. Correct.

 

24 Q. When you got there, you went to the guest

 

25 quarters and your son went to Mr. Jackson’s bedroom,

 

26 correct?

 

27 A. I don’t remember where I slept, but he did

 

28 go to Michael’s bedroom. 9259

 

1 Q. But he went inside the house?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. Where was your son going to school when

 

4 school started in September of 1993?

 

5 A. I think he was doing home schooling by then.

 

6 Q. Do you remember him at some point in time

 

7 going to school with a family named the Kennedys?

 

8 A. No.

 

9 Q. He had a close friend?

 

10 A. No.

 

11 Q. Do you remember a young boy by the name of

 

12 Teja, T-e-j-a?

 

13 A. No.

 

14 Q. Is the reason that you took your son out of

 

15 school because the kids at school had found out that

 

16 he had been sleeping with Michael Jackson and they

 

17 were making cruel statements about him?

 

18 A. I took Wade out of school after the fourth

 

19 grade. He was — it was before any of this

 

20 surfaced.

 

21 Q. So he was not in school during the fifth and

 

22 sixth grades in the valley?

 

23 A. Never been in school in the valley.

 

24 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. May I have a moment?

 

25 Excuse me just a second, Your Honor, I’m

 

26 trying to find a report.

 

27 Okay, let’s just do it this way. Ahh, here

 

28 it is. 9260

 

1 Q. Kenneth Clark, I’m sorry. Do you know

2 Kenneth Clark.

 

3 A. No.

 

4 Q. You don’t remember Kenneth Anthony Clark

 

5 being a good friend of your son’s?

 

6 A. Never heard of him.

 

7 Q. Did your son ever go to Garden Street School

 

8 in West Hollywood?

 

9 A. He went there for the fourth grade.

 

10 Q. Just the fourth grade?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. Not the fourth, fifth and sixth grades?

 

13 A. No. He started with Laurel Springs School

 

14 when he was — when he got the record deal.

 

15 Q. Yeah, 1993.

 

16 A. He was fifth grade.

 

17 Q. So it’s your testimony that your son was

 

18 only there in the fourth grade?

 

19 A. From memory. Maybe part of fifth.

 

20 Q. And is your testimony that your son never

 

21 received — that the home school didn’t start at

 

22 Laurel Springs because of the fact that your son was

 

23 being teased at school because people found out he

 

24 was sleeping in bed with Mr. Michael Jackson?

 

25 A. He’s never been teased at school. He

 

26 started home-schooling because he was a recording

 

27 artist and could not be in school. He was

 

28 traveling. 9261

 

1 Q. I just asked you is that the case?

 

2 A. That’s the absolute case.

 

3 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. Thank you. No further

 

4 questions.

 

5 THE COURT: Redirect?

 

6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor.

On a side note, let me take this opportunity to remind everyone of a complaint that Jackson’s former defense lawyer Bert Fields issued to the LAPD in October 1993; he wrote this letter to police chief Willie Williams, in which he complains about police using various scare tactics to elicit a confession from the children they interviewed about Jackson’s alleged abuse, such as telling them that they had nude photos of them, and that other children had already confessed to being abused. (It was reprinted in Dimond’s book “Be Careful Who You Love”; do not take that as an endorsement!)

Bert Fields letter to LAPD 1Bert Fields letter to LAPD 2

Under redirect examination, Mesereau sought to reestablish Joy’s credibility by having her explain why she trusted Jackson so much:

8 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

 

9 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

10 Q. Miss Robson, in response to the prosecutor’s

 

11 questions with regard to manipulation you said, “I

 

12 know Mr. Jackson.” Do you remember saying that?

 

13 A. Absolutely.

 

14 Q. Please tell the jury what you meant by that.

 

15 A. Well, I’ve known Michael for a long time. I

 

16 know him very well. I’ve spent many hours talking

 

17 to him about everything. I feel like he’s a member

 

18 of my family. I know him very well. I trust him.

 

19 I trust him with my children.

 

20 Q. Why?

 

21 A. Because Michael is a very special person.

 

22 Unless you know him, it’s hard to understand. He’s

 

23 not the boy next door. He’s Michael Jackson. He’s

 

24 very — he’s just a very unique personality. He

 

25 loves children. And he has a very pure love for

 

26 children. And to know him is to love him and to

 

27 trust him.

 

28 Q. And when did you begin to know Michael 9262

1 Jackson?

 

2 A. I felt like I knew him from the very

 

3 beginning. He just has that wonderful way of making

 

4 you feel at home; that I felt like I knew him very

 

5 early on.

 

6 But particularly in the two years when we

 

7 were living in Australia before we moved here, and I

 

8 talked to him every day. We had very long

 

9 conversations about everything that was going on in

 

10 his life and my life and my children’s lives. And

 

11 you get to know someone very well when you talk to

 

12 someone several hours a day over a two-year period.

 

13 And then once we moved here, too, we

 

14 continued that. We’ve always been able to talk

 

15 about just about anything.

Next, Joy was asked to clarify the incident where she couldn’t locate Wade’s whereabouts and became concerned. Jackson and Wade were in a recording studio that day, and Jackson didn’t leave on time (as you would expect, considering he’s such a perfectionist when it comes to his music!):

16 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you about Mother’s

 

17 Day at Neverland?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. Remember that?

 

20 A. Yes, I do.

 

21 Q. And you learned that Wade and Mr. Jackson

 

22 were in a recording studio that day, correct?

 

23 A. Not that day. That was — that was the time

 

24 that we were staying in Westwood, and Wade and I had

 

25 our ticket booked to return to Australia. And he

 

26 had been at the recording studio with Michael for a

 

27 couple of days, and I just hadn’t heard from them.

 

28 I know that they were working long hours, and then 9263

 

1 they’d take off again the next day. And I was

 

2 getting —

 

3 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike as a narrative,

 

4 Your Honor. Objection.

 

5 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember anything

 

7 else about that day at the recording studio?

 

8 A. No, just — I had called Norma looking for

 

9 him, and she found them. She said they were in the

 

10 recording studio and, “Michael is bringing him back

 

11 to you. They’re on their way.”

 

12 Q. To your knowledge, did your son spend a lot

 

13 of time with Michael Jackson at recording studios?

 

14 A. Often, yes.

 

15 Q. And why was that?

 

16 A. Because Wade was interested in being a

 

17 recording artist, he was interested in being a

 

18 producer. He was learning. He loved to be around

 

19 that and absorb that. He was like a sponge. And

 

20 he — that was the relationship that he and Michael

 

21 had. It was — a lot of it was a working

 

22 relationship and Michael was teaching him.

Next, Joy was asked to clarify Jackson’s influence over Wade’s show business career (she denied that she was using Jackson to help Wade’s career), why she allowed Wade to spend so much time with him (Jackson felt that Wade reminded him of himself as a young boy), and Jackson’s “special friends” ( a term that had NO sexual or criminal connotations; the young boys would naturally get jealous of another boy was able to spend more time with Jackson, and there was nothing unusual about this):

23 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you questions

 

24 suggesting that you were allowing your son to be

 

25 with Michael just to further his career. Is that

 

26 true?

 

27 A. Absolutely not.

 

28 Q. What do you mean? 9264

 

1 A. He was — as I say, he was learning things

 

2 from Michael. Michael was teaching him everything

 

3 he knew, and he couldn’t — that was part of the

 

4 friendship, but it was more of a friendship than

 

5 anything else. And I certainly never asked Michael

 

6 for anything where my son’s career was concerned.

 

7 I believe in my son, and I moved here for

 

8 him to further his career. I believed that he could

 

9 do that.

 

10 MR. SNEDDON: Objection, Your Honor,

 

11 narrative.

 

12 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you allow your son to

 

14 spend time with Michael Jackson learning the

 

15 entertainment business?

 

16 A. Absolutely.

 

17 Q. Why did you do that?

 

18 A. Because he was learning from the best.

 

19 Michael offered to teach him everything he could.

 

20 He believed in him, so why would I not?

 

21 Q. Now, your son has had a pretty successful

 

22 entertainment career so far, right?

 

23 A. He has.

 

24 Q. And has he worked exclusively with Michael

 

25 Jackson or has he done other things on his own?

 

26 A. He’s done most of it on his own.

 

27 Q. What has he done?

 

28 A. He’s become a choreographer. He started – 9265

 

1 MR. SNEDDON: Object as immaterial, Your

 

2 Honor.

 

3 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Well, the prosecutor

 

5 suggested that you were making decisions about what

 

6 to do with your children because Michael Jackson

 

7 could help their careers, correct?

 

8 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

9 object as argumentative and leading.

 

10 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

11 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you ever allow Wade to

 

12 be with Michael Jackson only because Michael Jackson

 

13 could help his career?

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: Object as leading.

 

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

16 You may answer.

 

17 THE WITNESS: Never. We were friends first.

 

18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Why did you allow Wade to

 

19 spend a lot of time with Michael Jackson?

 

20 MR. SNEDDON: Object.

 

21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Please tell the jury.

 

22 MR. SNEDDON: Asked and answered.

 

23 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Please tell that to the

 

25 jury.

 

26 A. They enjoyed each other. They — they were

 

27 very similar people. I remember Michael telling me

 

28 early on that it was like looking in the mirror, he 9266

1 saw himself all over again. His interest was

 

2 because he saw Wade’s potential. And Wade loved

 

3 everything that Michael did and wanted to learn as

 

4 much as he could.

 

5 Q. Did you ever lose your trust in Michael

 

6 Jackson during any point in time that your son was

 

7 with him?

 

8 A. Never.

 

9 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever do anything that made

 

10 you suspicious about his behavior towards your son

 

11 Wade?

 

12 A. Never.

 

13 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever do anything that made

 

14 you suspicious about his behavior towards your

 

15 daughter?

 

16 A. Never.

 

17 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you questions

 

18 about children being jealous if Michael Jackson had

 

19 another friend who was a child. Do you remember

 

20 those questions?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. Please tell the jury what you meant.

 

23 A. It’s like any child who has a favorite uncle

 

24 or someone in the family that everyone wants to be

 

25 around.

 

26 And Michael’s the sort of person that

 

27 everybody wants to be around. He has that sort of

 

28 aura. So naturally, when he was spending time with 9267

 

1 one child, another child would be jealous. It’s the

 

2 same in any family, if you spend time with one child

 

3 more than the other.

 

4 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

5 object.

 

6 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The prosecutor asked you

 

8 questions about Michael Jackson having special

 

9 friends who were children. Do you remember that?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. And what did you mean by that?

 

12 A. Well, you know, there would be people who

 

13 would spend time with him at particular times more

 

14 so than others.

 

15 It didn’t mean that he didn’t still spend

 

16 time with all of them. They were all friends of

 

17 his. But when he spent particularly more time with

 

18 one than the other, then they were special for the

 

19 time.

 

20 Q. Based upon what you’ve observed of Mr.

 

21 Jackson, would it be accurate to say that all over

 

22 the world children flock to him, don’t they?

 

23 A. Absolutely.

 

24 MR. SNEDDON: Object. Immaterial; leading.

 

25 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer is in.

 

26 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And have you seen children

 

27 from time to time get jealous because Mr. Jackson is

 

28 being nice to another child? 9268

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Has that ever appeared unusual to you?

 

3 A. Not at all.

 

4 Q. Did you ever see something that you thought

 

5 was very suspicious when one child would get jealous

 

6 of Mr. Jackson’s attention to another child?

 

7 A. No, I think that’s normal with children.

 

8 Q. When you used the term “special friends,”

 

9 what did you mean?

 

10 A. I think just the one that he was spending

 

11 time with for now. That he considered all of his

 

12 friends special.

 

13 I don’t know why I would have said that.

 

14 I don’t remember saying “special.” But I imagine it

 

15 would have meant just the child that he was spending

 

16 time with now.

 

17 Q. When you used the term “special friends,”

 

18 did you mean to suggest anything criminal was going

 

19 on?

 

20 A. Absolutely not.

 

21 Q. When you used the term “special friends,”

 

22 did you mean to suggest that anything sexual was

 

23 going on?

 

24 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, that’s a leading

 

25 question. I object.

 

26 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The word “special,” you

 

28 used that term, right? 9269

 

1 A. Apparently, yes.

 

2 Q. Why?

 

3 A. Well, I guess because all children are

 

4 special and Michael considers them all special.

 

5 There’s nothing — no — nothing necessarily of a

 

6 bad connotation in that.

 

7 THE COURT: I think it’s time for the break

 

8 now.

 

9 MR. MESEREAU: Oh.

 

10 THE COURT: You just took that one breath too

 

11 long.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

 

13 THE COURT: (To the jury) You know, I’m

 

14 going to take — you’re going to get an extra five

 

15 minutes because at the end of our break I want to

 

16 talk to the attorneys. Just so you know, you’ll

 

17 have a little longer break. It’s not a long item.

 

18 Don’t worry.

 

19 (Recess taken.)

After the recess ended, but before the jury was seated, Judge Melville addressed the attorneys and notified them that he ruled that he would allow Marie Barnes, Karlee Barnes, and Chantal Robson to testify, but would not allow Michael Viner to testify about the conversation of Larry Feldman that he overheard, during which he and CNN’s Larry King claimed that Feldman said that Janet Arvizo was a “flake”: you can see Larry King mention this at the beginning of this video, although he was very vague and didn’t go into details:

Let’s take a moment to look at why the exactly the defense wanted King’s associate Michael Viner to testify, and why the prosecution didn’t want him to, and why Judge Melville ultimately didn’t allow it.

Sometime in 2004 (King didn’t remember the exact date, but it was four to six months before the start of the trial), Larry Feldman scheduled a breakfast meeting with Larry King, his friend Michael Viner, and several of King’s show producers in order to solicit them to act as an “expert commentator” of the Jackson trial on King’s show. (In other words, he wanted to be a mouthpiece for the prosecution and convince the public that Jackson would be convicted.) During this meeting, Viner claims to have heard Feldman refer to Janet Arvizo as a “flake”, that he “did not believe the boy” (e.g. Gavin Arvizo), and at when he sent Janet and Gavin to see Dr. Katz, “they failed the smell test”.

In his pleading titled “PLAINTIFF’S MOTION TO EXCLUDE HEARSAY TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS MICHAEL VINER PURSUANT TO EVIDENCE CODE §352”, Sneddon argued that Viner shouldn’t be allowed to testify for the defense because his testimony would be considered hearsay, and that Feldman’s statement (if he said it at all) was “nothing more than a lay opinion of another witness’ credibility”. It’s pretty ironic that Feldman’s opinion of Janet’s credibility would be considered a “lay” opinion (the legal definition of lay is “amateur, unprofessional, or unqualified”), when he spent an extensive amount of time speaking with Janet before referring her to Dr. Katz, and he even testified for the prosecution earlier in the trial, and during the grand jury proceedings in 2004!

The defense responded with their pleading titled “OPPOSITION TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S MOTION TO EXCLUDE HEARSAY TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS MICHAEL VINER PURSUANT TO EVIDENCE CODE SECTION §352”, in which Mesereau stated that Viner’s testimony was being offered to impeach the prior inconsistent statements of Larry Feldman, who testified on April 1st , 2005. In the following excerpt from that day, Feldman denied that he made any statements about the Arvizo’s fabricating their claims against Jackson, and denied ever meeting with Viner! Take not of the fact that Sneddon didn’t object to this line of questioning:

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Feldman, do you

 

7 remember telling two individuals, Michael Viner and

 

8 Larry King, that Janet is making up these

 

9 allegations?

 

10 A. Absolutely not. Are you kidding?

 

11 Q. Do you remember meeting with those two

 

12 individuals at The Grill in Beverly Hills?

 

13 A. No. Never met with them.

 

14 Q. Do you know who Michael Viner is?

 

15 A. I couldn’t pick him out. I know who he is.

 

16 I think the answer is I wouldn’t know him if he was

 

17 sitting in the jury box. But I know who he is by

 

18 name. He’s — he’s a publisher or something, or a

 

19 writer, or — I don’t know. Viner Books, right?

 

20 Something like that.

 

21 I certainly know who Larry King is.

 

22 Q. You did have a meeting with him and Larry

 

23 King, right?

 

24 A. I have never had a meeting with Michael

 

25 Viner in my life.

 

26 Q. So approximately nine months ago, you didn’t

 

27 meet with Mr. King and Mr. Viner, correct?

 

28 A. I absolutely have never had a meeting with 4596

 

1 Michael Viner in my life.

 

2 Q. Okay. And did you ever tell Larry King that

 

3 these allegations against Mr. Jackson are false?

 

4 A. Absolutely not.

 

5 MR. MESEREAU: I have no further questions.

Here is Sneddon’s redirect examination from that day (notice how Feldman states that King and his crew were trying to convince HIM to be a guest on his show!):

20 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, you were asked by —

 

21 just before Mr. Mesereau finished his examination,

 

22 about a purported conversation between you and Mr.

 

23 King and Mr. Viner, or Veener?

 

24 A. Viner.

 

25 Q. Viner?

 

26 A. Viner is what he said.

 

27 Q. Yes. And do you recall any such meeting?

 

28 A. I never met with Mr. Viner. I did once meet 4601

 

1 with Mr. King. I do remember meeting with Mr. King,

 

2 but I can tell you there wasn’t a meeting with

 

3 Viner.

 

4 Q. Were there other people present?

 

5 A. Well, we were in the delicatessen in Beverly

 

6 Hills, so there were a lot of other people around.

 

7 Q. Where — were you having breakfast, lunch,

 

8 dinner? You were in a deli, I assume you were

 

9 eating.

 

10 A. I was having breakfast with his — with a

 

11 producer from their show, who —

 

12 Q. Whose show?

 

13 A. Larry King’s show, and he was sitting at a

 

14 table, like over here, with —

 

15 Q. Indicating to your right?

 

16 A. Right. With six of his pals that he had

17 breakfast with.

 

18 Q. And were you with somebody else?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. Who were you with?

 

21 A. I was with his producer.

 

22 Q. Who is?

 

23 A. Whose name was, or is, Nancy Baker, I think

 

24 her name was.

 

25 Q. Is that the only time you ever recall being

 

26 in any kind of close proximity with Mr. Viner?

 

27 A. Well, I’m not even sure he was one of these

 

28 guys. I didn’t have any discussion with any of 4602

 

1 those guys about anything, I can tell you. They

 

2 were trying to get me to come on their show. That’s

 

3 all we ever possibly talked about, is — I knew Mr.

 

4 King. I’ve run into him since this, I mean, at

 

5 different events.

 

6 Q. By “Mr. King,” you’re talking about Larry

 

7 King?

 

8 A. Right.

 

9 Q. The guy’s on —

 

10 A. We say hello to each other. We see each

 

11 other. Talk to each other. Never having talked

 

12 about this case, and they did want me to come on

 

13 their program. I mean, I do remember them talking

 

14 to me about that.

 

15 But I can tell you that I didn’t tell them,

 

16 and I didn’t tell anybody else, anything about what

 

17 anybody tells me, because it is absolutely

 

18 privileged, and it would be absolutely improper.

 

19 And if anybody says that, that person is lying.

 

20 Can’t make it clearer than that.

Here is Mesereau’s private investigator Scott Ross’s declaration about his interview with Viner on April 26th, 2005. Viner reiterated to Ross exactly what he heard Feldman say about the Arvizos, and he was very surprised that Feldman testified that he “didn’t know” who Viner was, when in fact they met several times over the years. This declaration, as well as the aforementioned excerpts of Feldman’s previous testimony, were included in the defense pleading “EXHIBITS IN SUPPORT OF OPPOSITION TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S MOTION TO EXCLUDE HEARSAY TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS MICHAEL VINER” (insert photo)

Sneddon replied in the pleading titled “PLAINTIFF’S REPLY TO DEFENDANT’S OPPOSITION OF MOTION TO EXCLUDE HEARSAY TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS MICHAEL VINER PURSUANT TO EVIDENCECODE §352”, Sneddon was his usual self, stalling and making excuses for his own witness! He tried to hide behind semantics and argued that, technically, Mesereau’s questions regarding what Feldman said didn’t “encompass the offer of proof” regarding Vinder, and that Feldman testified that he wouldn’t disclose what he did or didn’t say because it was privileged communication.  

Here is Judge Melville’s statement to the jury:

1 (The following proceedings were held in

 

2 open court outside the presence and hearing of the

 

3 jury:)

 

4

 

5 THE COURT: I just know that you’re about to

 

6 call another witness, which, according to my list,

 

7 would be Chantal Robson; is that correct?

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: That’s correct, Your Honor.

 

9 THE COURT: And there was a motion to limit

 

10 testimony on her and also on Karlee Barnes on the

 

11 same documents. And I’ve reviewed those documents,

 

12 and I’m not going to grant the motion. I’ll decide

 

13 the issues on a question-by-question basis.

 

14 But for your guidance, it seems, based on

 

15 the attached police reports, that the information

 

16 that’s in those reports would be the type of

 

17 information that he would be allowed to ask about.

 

18 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor.

 

19 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we also filed a

 

20 motion with regard to Lisbeth Barnes. Is that one

 

21 that the Court will address at some time?

 

22 THE BAILIFF: You can’t be heard.

 

23 THE COURT: The Lisbeth Barnes issue, I will

 

24 rule on that on a case-by-case basis. But I will

 

25 order that the — that she not be allowed to give

 

26 opinions about her — her opinions about how

 

27 vigorous, et cetera, a prosecutor Mr. Sneddon is.

 

28 I’ve already ruled that’s out of bounds, not an 9275

 

1 issue in this case. It’s not going to be a personal

 

2 attack on him.

 

3 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, if I could just

 

4 ask for guidance on that issue. Excluding personal

 

5 attacks, certainly we can discuss with Mr. Sneddon

 

6 their willingness to cooperate, what he said to

 

7 them, et cetera, about these issues without making

 

8 it a personal attack, can’t we?

 

9 THE COURT: Within limits.

 

10 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.

 

11 THE COURT: The line there — there is a

 

12 probative issue there, but the line about

 

13 personal — her opinions of him —

 

14 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.

 

15 THE COURT: — I won’t allow that.

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.

 

17 THE COURT: So while we’re doing — I’m going

 

18 to do one more that was there. Might as well cover

 

19 it. I don’t see this person on your list, though.

 

20 You had a person named — there was a question about

 

21 witness Michael Viner, V-i-n-e-r.

 

22 MR. SNEDDON: That’s —

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: Michael Viner. Michael

 

24 Viner. V-i-n-e-r, Your Honor.

 

25 THE COURT: Yeah. He’s not on the list,

 

26 but —

 

27 MR. SANGER: I should address that.

 

28 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll address it. 9276

 

1 THE COURT: What my ruling on that would be,

 

2 I’m not going to allow him to testify about

 

3 overhearing the opinion of Mr. Feldman as to

 

4 veracity. That’s not admissible.

 

5 MR. MESEREAU: If I may, Your Honor, I think

 

6 we were going to file an opposition, which didn’t

 

7 get filed. Our position was going to be the

 

8 prosecution allowed — I believe, I will

 

9 double-check.

 

10 THE COURT: I’ll withhold that ruling if you

 

11 intend to file an opposition.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: We do.

 

13 THE COURT: That person’s not on the list at

 

14 this point. But that’s where I was going with it

 

15 based on just what the District Attorney had filed.

 

16 MR. SANGER: It should be filed now.

 

17 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, may I address the Court

 

18 on a matter that I indicated to the clerk that I

 

19 wanted to take up with the Court?

 

20 THE COURT: All right.

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: And I was told I could do it

 

22 at a later time.

 

23 THE COURT: All right. What is the issue?

 

24 MR. SNEDDON: Discovery. We have a —

 

25 THE COURT: Does it relate to any

 

26 immediate —

 

27 MR. SNEDDON: Yes.

 

28 THE COURT: — witness right now? 9277

 

1 MR. SNEDDON: Yes. Not to this lady, but to

 

2 the future of the day. And it — I want to alert

 

3 the Court that we have a very substantial problem,

 

4 and I’d like to — I know that the Court doesn’t

 

5 want to keep the jury waiting, but —

 

6 THE COURT: On which issue?

 

7 MR. SNEDDON: We got a list with three

 

8 witnesses, Francine Orozco, Russ Birchim and Jimmy

 

9 Van Norman. Francine Orozco —

 

10 THE COURT: What I’m going to do is — what

 

11 I’m thinking of doing is letting the jury go an hour

 

12 or so early today, because there’s another issue

 

13 that Mr. Mesereau wants to take up, so that we can

 

14 do that when they’re not waiting in the hallway.

 

15 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Your Honor, then I

 

16 just want to ask one other thing. And while I don’t

 

17 want to hold things up, but I believe that this

 

18 witness and the witnesses yesterday have testified

 

19 to their opinion about character. And we filed the

 

20 brief this morning, so I was just going to ask, when

 

21 she’s excused, that she’s subject to re-call. If

 

22 the Court agrees with us, then we can then

 

23 cross-examine her further on those topics.

 

24 THE COURT: All right.

 

25 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.

 

26 THE COURT: The Court has not excused any

 

27 witnesses yet. Our agreement was that the

 

28 witnesses, unless specifically asked, I would not 9278

 

1 excuse them, they’re still bound, because both

 

2 parties have indicated they want to — they may want

 

3 to re-call witnesses. So no witnesses have been

 

4 excused except where I’ve specifically excused them,

 

5 and there are very few of those.

 

6 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, I understand. I wanted

 

7 to make sure I preserved it as a witness coming back

 

8 on cross-examination and not having to call her as

 

9 my own witness. I believe that I would be entitled

 

10 to cross-examine her on have-you-heard statements

 

11 based on her testimony. That’s all I was trying to

 

12 do was just to preserve the record for that.

 

13 THE COURT: All right.

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.

 

15 THE COURT: I’ll have the jury brought in.

 

16

 

17 (The following proceedings were held in

 

18 open court in the presence and hearing of the

 

19 jury:)

After the jury was seated, Joy testified that she was the one who asked Jackson for the loans she received, not the other way around. This was crucial because Sneddon insinuated that Jackson offered Joy the money in order to help him earn Joy’s trust so that he could get close to Wade:

21 THE COURT: All right. You may proceed.

22 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

 

23 Q. Miss Robson, the prosecutor asked you

 

24 questions about borrowing $10,000. Remember that?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. Would you please explain why you borrowed

 

27 $10,000?

 

28 A. The first $10,000, we had been here for, I 9279

 

1 think, a year, 18 months. And it was a lot more

 

2 difficult to establish ourselves here than I had

 

3 anticipated, so Michael offered to help us out for a

 

4 while. So we borrowed $10,000 at that point.

 

5 The second one was a car. I had been here

 

6 for a while. My credit from Australia cannot be

 

7 transferred, so I had no established credit in the

 

8 United States. I was listed as an employee because

 

9 of the cosmetics company paying through Michael

 

10 Jackson’s company. Because I was being sponsored by

 

11 MJJ Productions, I was listed as an employee of the

 

12 company. So I had asked if the company would

 

13 co-sign for my car because I was unable to get the

 

14 credit to buy a car, and Michael just offered to pay

 

15 for it rather than co-sign.

 

16 Q. Was it — as you recall, was it his idea to

 

17 help you or was it your idea?

 

18 A. I had asked for help. And he was there for

 

19 me. He was a friend.

 

20 Q. Okay. Was there anything, as far as you

 

21 know, improper or illegal about anything you did?

 

22 A. Nothing.

 

23 Q. Okay. The prosecutor asked you some

 

24 questions about whether or not you had borrowed

 

25 other funds. Do you remember?

 

26 A. Do you mean the Anthony Pellicano situation?

 

27 Q. Yes.

 

28 A. Yes. 9280

 

1 Q. And what were you referring to?

 

2 A. Well, that was because the record label —

 

3 the deal had been held up, and the advance was

 

4 something that we needed to survive. And because it

 

5 was held up, Anthony Pellicano offered to loan the

 

6 money to me until the balance came through from the

 

7 record deal.

 

8 Q. Okay. Now, did you ask Mr. Jackson for help

 

9 from time to time?

 

10 A. I asked a couple of occasions with the car

 

11 and the initial 10,000.

 

12 Q. And he did help you on those occasions?

 

13 A. Yes.

Mesereau’s next goal was to dispel the misconception that Jackson had ulterior motives for helping Wade Robson with his career, or that the Robsons were gold diggers who used Jackson to help Wade’s career. Joy testified that she never asked Jackson for his help regarding Wade’s career, and he was always supportive of it. Additionally, he wisely asked Joy to further explain why Wade spent the night with Jackson (it most certainly was NOT because she was trying to help wade’s career!), and that it occurred with her knowledge and permission. Wade and Jackson would stay well into the night, and just crash when they felt tired. Joy stated this happened with her and Jackson as well!

14 Q. The prosecutor asked you questions about

 

15 your son’s entertainment career. Did you ask for

 

16 help from Mr. Jackson once in a while as far as your

 

17 son’s entertainment career was concerned?

 

18 A. No. I had called a couple of time to see

 

19 if — when he was doing music videos, to see if he

 

20 remembered Wade, because he said he would put Wade

 

21 in his music video. To remind him more than

 

22 anything. But that was all.

 

23 Q. And to your knowledge, did Mr. Jackson help

 

24 Wade with his career?

 

25 A. Yes, he’s always very supportive. He’s

 

26 always very interested in what Wade did with his

 

27 career. He would check on him. He would ask him to

 

28 send him — keep him in touch and send — when he 9281

 

1 was doing music production, he would ask him to send

 

2 him demos of the music that he was producing so that

 

3 he can listen to it and encourage him and teach him

 

4 what he was doing correctly and not. Always very

 

5 supportive, always very interested.

 

6 Q. Now, were you allowing Wade to spend nights

 

7 with Mr. Jackson because you just wanted to further

 

8 his career?

 

9 A. No.

 

10 Q. Why were you letting Wade spend those

 

11 evenings with Mr. Jackson?

 

12 A. Those evenings just happened because they

 

13 were having fun together. They would play till all

 

14 hours of the night. They would watch music videos.

 

15 They would watch cartoons. And they’d basically

 

16 just go to sleep.

 

17 Q. Did you do that with Mr. Jackson as well?

 

18 A. Yes, I did.

 

19 Q. How often?

 

20 A. A couple of times.

Jackson’s use of the word “cousin” to describe his young friends was attacked by the prosecution earlier in the day, and they asserted that there were some devious reasons for it, but Joy stated that Jackson called everyone “cousin”, which is consistent with his other nicknames, such as “applehead” and “rubba”:

21 Q. Okay. The prosecutor asked you questions

 

22 about Wade and Michael throwing some pebbles at the

 

23 lion cage. Do you recall that?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. How — when did you learn about Wade and

 

26 Michael throwing some pebbles at a lion cage?

 

27 A. I think Wade had told me about it at some

 

28 point after the fact. He was basically telling me 9282

 

1 that he heard the lion roar. And it didn’t roar

 

2 very often, so I was surprised. And he told me what

 

3 they did to make it roar.

 

4 Q. Well, was it your impression that they were

 

5 engaging in animal cruelty or anything?

 

6 A. Absolutely not. That’s the last thing that

 

7 either of them would do.

 

8 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object.

 

9 THE COURT: What was that?

 

10 MR. SNEDDON: I said I object. It calls for

 

11 a conclusion. It’s narrative. And it’s leading.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: I think the prosecutor asked

 

13 her about her knowledge and state of mind.

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: I’m not objecting to the

 

15 subject matter. I’m objecting to the form of the

 

16 question.

 

17 THE COURT: All right. I’ll sustain the

 

18 objection. Strike the answer. Next question.

 

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Who told you about Wade

 

20 and Michael Jackson throwing some pebbles at the

 

21 lion cage?

 

22 A. Wade.

 

23 Q. And when did he tell you about that?

 

24 A. I think possibly a day or two after it

 

25 happened, or that night. I really don’t remember.

 

26 Q. And did he tell you that he had tried to be

 

27 cruel to an animal?

 

28 A. No. Wade loves animals. 9283

 

1 Q. Did he tell you that Michael Jackson had

 

2 tried to be cruel to an animal?

 

3 A. No. Michael is — loves all animals as

 

4 well. Neither of them would ever do that.

 

5 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you questions

 

6 about the word “cousin.” Do you recall those

 

7 questions?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. And did you hear Michael Jackson use the

 

10 word “cousin” in describing children?

 

11 A. Yes. He pretty much called everybody

 

12 cousins, I think.

 

13 Q. And did you know why he did that?

 

14 A. No. That’s just something that he — I

 

15 mean, I think at some point he may have said it so

 

16 that they weren’t jealous of each other, because

 

17 that tended to happen.

 

18 Q. Did you ever suspect there was something

 

19 criminal about Mr. Jackson using the word “cousin”?

 

20 A. No.

 

21 Q. Ever think there was something sexual about

 

22 Mr. Jackson referring to children as his cousin?

 

23 A. Never.

 

24 Q. Ever think there was anything inappropriate

 

25 about Mr. Jackson referring to various children as

 

26 “my cousin”?

 

27 A. No.

After asking Joy about a variety of different topics, Mesereau asked her to confirm that she was allowed to walk freely in and out of Jackson’s bedroom, which is counter to what the prosecution asserted. She confirmed that Jackson put no restrictions whatsoever on when she could enter his bedroom suite.

On a side note, Joy stated that the last time that Wade and Jackson worked together on an entertainment project was at the 2001 MTV Music Awards, during which Jackson made a surprise appearance with the boy band N’Sync:

28 Q. The prosecutor asked you questions about 9284

 

1 Brett Barnes. Do you know Brett Barnes?

 

2 A. I don’t know him. I’m associated with him.

 

3 Q. Okay. How so?

 

4 A. I met him once when he was in Chicago and

 

5 Michael was shooting the “Jam” music video.

 

6 Q. Did you maintain any communication with the

 

7 Barnes family through the years?

 

8 A. No.

 

9 Q. Would you call the Barnes family good

 

10 friends of your family?

 

11 A. Not at all.

 

12 Q. Okay. How many times do you think you’ve

 

13 traveled with Mr. Jackson?

 

14 A. Just the once, to Las Vegas.

 

15 Q. Okay. Now, you referred to Chicago at one

 

16 point in your testimony.

 

17 A. Yes.

 

18 Q. Did you go to Chicago?

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. And what was the purpose for that trip?

 

21 A. Wade was dancing on the music video “Jam.”

 

22 Q. Okay. And was that a music video involving

 

23 Mr. Jackson?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 Q. And was Mr. Jackson in Chicago with you?

 

26 A. Not with us. He was there.

 

27 Q. Okay. And what do you mean by “not with

 

28 us”? 9285

 

1 A. Well, we weren’t staying with him. We were

 

2 flown in as Wade was working. And we stayed at a

 

3 hotel. He did the job, and we returned to Los

 

4 Angeles.

 

5 Q. And to your knowledge, where did Mr. Jackson

 

6 stay on that trip?

 

7 A. I have no idea.

 

8 Q. Did you see Mr. Jackson on that trip?

 

9 A. On the set, yes.

 

10 Q. Did you see him in any other location?

 

11 A. No.

 

12 Q. Okay. Do you know approximately when that

 

13 was?

 

14 A. I’m not sure. I want to say ‘92. Maybe in

 

15 the middle of ‘92 somewhere.

 

16 Q. Okay. The prosecutor asked you some

 

17 questions about whether you were concerned about

 

18 manipulation. Remember that?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. Were you ever concerned about Mr. Jackson

 

21 manipulating you?

 

22 A. Never.

 

23 Q. Did you ever tell anyone you were concerned

 

24 that Mr. Jackson was manipulating Wade?

 

25 A. No.

 

26 Q. Ever tell anyone that you were concerned

 

27 that Mr. Jackson was manipulating your daughter?

 

28 A. No. 9286

 

1 Q. Did you use the word “manipulation”?

 

2 A. Not to my knowledge.

 

3 Q. Are there any other entertainment-related

 

4 transactions that you recall either you or your son

 

5 being involved in with Michael Jackson?

 

6 A. And what do you mean by “entertainment

 

7 transactions”?

 

8 Q. Any type of entertainment, transaction,

 

9 project. You name it.

 

10 A. He did three music videos. He did a Pepsi

 

11 commercial. And the original L.A. Gear photo shoot.

 

12 I think those are the only things he’s ever done

 

13 with Michael.

 

14 Q. Did Mr. Jackson, to your knowledge, help

 

15 Wade with those projects?

 

16 A. What do you mean by “help”?

 

17 Q. Any kind of assistance.

 

18 A. I mean, he offered — he decided that he

 

19 wanted — he would want Wade to work on it, because

 

20 he was the best person for the job. Other than

 

21 that, no.

 

22 Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, when is the

 

23 last time Wade worked with Mr. Jackson on any

 

24 entertainment-related project?

 

25 A. The last thing he — Michael performed with

 

26 ‘N Sync I think on an MTV Music Awards, and Wade was

 

27 choreographing and directing it. He put that

 

28 together. 9287

 

1 Q. Do you know approximately when that was?

 

2 A. I want to say 2000, something like that.

 

3 Q. Now, you said that many times you went to

 

4 Neverland and Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, right?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. And when you did that, how would you arrange

 

7 to visit Neverland?

 

8 A. Through his office. Through Evvy.

 

9 Q. Had Mr. Jackson given you permission to

 

10 visit Neverland when he wasn’t there?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. And approximately when did he say you could

 

13 do that?

 

14 A. He’s always said that, that we’re welcome

 

15 any time.

 

16 Q. And I believe you testified that you were

 

17 there more times when he wasn’t there than when he

 

18 was there; is that right?

 

19 A. Absolutely, yes.

 

20 Q. How many times do you think you visited

 

21 Neverland when Mr. Jackson wasn’t even there?

 

22 A. Maybe 40, 50 times.

 

23 Q. And where would you stay when Mr. Jackson

 

24 wasn’t at Neverland?

 

25 MR. SNEDDON: Object as immaterial, Your

 

26 Honor.

 

27 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

28 You may answer. 9288

 

1 THE WITNESS: Before he had the children, I

 

2 would stay in the house. But since he’s had the

 

3 children and they’re now the children’s bedrooms, we

 

4 stay in the guest units.

 

5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: How many times do you

 

6 think you stayed in Mr. Jackson’s main house before

 

7 Mr. Jackson had his own children?

 

8 A. Maybe 15, 20 times. I’m not sure.

 

9 Q. And where would you typically stay?

 

10 A. In the rose bedroom.

 

11 Q. Please describe to the jury what the rose

 

12 bedroom is.

 

13 A. Its a large-sized bedroom with an adjoining

 

14 bathroom. Hardwood floors. Beautiful wood —

 

15 carved wooden ceilings. Overlooks the front of the

 

16 house. It’s on the second floor.

 

17 Q. And how far away is the rose bedroom from

 

18 Mr. Jackson’s bedroom?

 

19 A. Mr. Jackson’s bedroom is on the ground

 

20 floor. I don’t know how to describe how far away.

 

21 It’s probably the length of two rooms, but on

 

22 another floor.

 

23 Q. Now, do you recall freely walking in and out

 

24 of Mr. Jackson’s bedroom?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. And when you say “bedroom,” you’re talking

 

27 about these two levels?

 

28 A. Yes. 9289

 

1 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Jackson ever put any

 

2 restrictions on your walking in and out of his own

 

3 room?

 

4 A. No.

 

5 Q. And you freely walked in and out of his own

 

6 room?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. The prosecutor asked you questions about a

 

9 lock and alarm. Do you remember that?

 

10 A. No. Oh, the chimes, yeah.

 

11 Q. Do you recollect your always having to go

 

12 through a locked door to get into his room?

 

13 A. I mean, I would always knock first before I

 

14 went anyway, so I don’t have any idea whether the

 

15 door was locked or not. But I would never just walk

 

16 in. I would always knock and someone would open the

 

17 door.

 

18 Q. What typically would happen when you’d

 

19 knock?

 

20 A. Wade would answer the door, or Michael.

 

21 Q. Okay. And would someone open the door for

 

22 you?

 

23 A. Do you mean —

 

24 Q. When you knocked and someone responded,

 

25 would they typically open the door for you or would

 

26 you open the door yourself?

 

27 A. I think someone would open it for me.

 

28 Q. Did you go into Mr. Jackson’s room at all 9290

 

1 hours of the day?

 

2 A. At any time I wanted to, yes.

 

3 Q. Do you recall being in his room during the

 

4 day?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. Do you recall being in his room during the

 

7 evening?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Do you recall being in Mr. Jackson’s room

 

10 late at night?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. Did you ever get the feeling that somebody

 

13 was trying to keep you out of Mr. Jackson’s room?

 

14 A. No.

 

15 Q. Do you recall spending much time in Mr.

 

16 Jackson’s room at Neverland?

 

17 A. I have spent time in there on occasion

 

18 watching television with them, but not often.

 

19 Q. Where would you typically watch television

 

20 when you were in Mr. Jackson’s room?

 

21 A. On the bed.

 

22 Q. Would that be the bed on the second level?

23 A. No. On the ground level.

In this excerpt, Joy testified that there was no quid pro quo between herself and Jackson regarding any of the nice things that he did for her family, and she never felt that she had to repay Jackson:

24 Q. Okay. Now, the issue of Mr. Jackson helping

 

25 you with an automobile, when did that happen?

 

26 A. I think maybe ‘93. Early ‘93.

 

27 Q. And did you go to him and ask for some

 

28 assistance in getting an automobile? 9291

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Okay. And what was his response?

 

3 A. Well, I had asked him to co-sign. I wasn’t

 

4 asking for money. I was just asking for a

 

5 signature. And his response was, “Well, why don’t I

 

6 just pay for it.”

 

7 Q. And did he do that, to your knowledge?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Did you feel that he was doing that because

 

10 he wanted something in return in any way?

 

11 A. Not at all.

 

12 Q. Did you feel there was any quid pro quo when

 

13 he helped you with the car?

 

14 A. Absolutely not.

 

15 Q. Did you feel there was any quid pro quo when

 

16 he helped you with money?

 

17 A. Never.

 

18 Q. Did you feel there was any quid pro quo when

 

19 he helped you as a sponsor?

 

20 A. Not at all.

 

21 Q. Now, what was this issue — you needed him

 

22 as a sponsor for what purpose?

 

23 A. To remain in the United States. We —

 

24 permanent residence. To be able to have a green

 

25 card, we had to have someone sponsor us into the

 

26 country.

 

27 Q. Did you go to him and ask him if he would be

 

28 your sponsor? 9292

 

1 A. I talked to him about it, and he said he

 

2 would do whatever he could to do. He just

 

3 instructed his office to do whatever was needed.

 

4 Q. To your knowledge, what was done to help

 

5 you?

 

6 A. An offer — they put me on their books as an

 

7 employee of the company.

 

8 Q. Did Mr. Jackson have to actually sign

 

9 anything to be your sponsor, if you recall?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. And did you ask him to do that?

 

12 A. Yes. Pretty much. Basically I asked for

 

13 help. So that was the only way we could stay, so,

 

14 yes.

 

15 Q. And he did help you, right?

 

16 A. Yes, he did.

 

17 Q. Did you feel like you owed him anything

 

18 after he helped sponsor your family to stay in the

 

19 U.S.?

 

20 A. No. Not at all.

 

21 Q. Now, you received some payment through

 

22 Michael Jackson Productions; is that right?

 

23 A. My earnings from the cosmetic company was

 

24 diverted through the company, through his company,

 

25 yeah.

 

26 Q. What cosmetics company was that?

 

27 A. Pigments. P-i-g-m-e-n-t-s.

 

28 Q. Where is that company located? 9293

 

1 A. On Burton Way in Beverly Hills.

 

2 Q. And you actually were working there?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. When did you begin working at that cosmetics

 

5 company?

 

6 A. I think ‘93. ‘92 or ‘93.

 

7 Q. And the idea was that because you weren’t a

 

8 resident, you were not supposed to be employed; is

 

9 that the idea?

 

10 A. I was on a working visa, but it was through

 

11 MJJ Productions. I was — I was employed to be

 

12 employed by MJJ Productions only. So I managed to

 

13 find this job for myself. And in order to make it

 

14 legal, it had to be diverted through MJJ

 

15 Productions.

 

16 Q. And where were you living at the time?

 

17 A. I was living in Hollywood.

 

18 Q. And who else was living there with you?

 

19 A. Chantal and Wade.

 

20 Q. And were you the main person providing for

 

21 your family at that point?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. You needed a job, didn’t you?

 

24 A. Yes, I did.

 

25 Q. Mr. Jackson helped you get a job, correct?

 

26 A. Well, he helped me, yeah. I mean, he didn’t

 

27 get the job for me. I got the job, but he made it

 

28 possible for me to be allowed to do that, yes. 9294

 

1 Q. And how long did that arrangement last?

 

2 A. Oh, I think three years.

 

3 Q. Okay. So for approximately three years you

 

4 were paid through MJJ Productions, right?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. Michael’s Jackson’s company?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. Were you the primary wage earner for your

 

9 family at that point?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. And why did that arrangement end?

 

12 A. Wade booked a feature film. He was working

 

13 as an actor on a feature film. And because he was a

 

14 minor, I had to be there with him. So I left the

 

15 job and worked with him on the film.

 

16 Q. Okay. And did Mr. Jackson ever ask anything

 

17 in return for what he had done for you during those

 

18 three years?

 

19 A. No.

 

20 Q. Ever feel you had to repay him for any of

 

21 that?

 

22 A. No.

Here’s an example of how utterly desperate Sneddon was to get Jackson in 1993: he tried to “convince” Joy that Wade had been kidnapped by Jackson, but she wouldn’t give in! Before she could elaborate, Judge Melville sustained both Sneddon and Zonen’s objections, and Mesereau moved on to a different topic.

 

23 Q. Now, you spoke to Mr. Sneddon before today,

 

24 did you not?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. And you were actually questioned by Mr.

 

27 Sneddon before today, correct?

 

28 A. Yes. 9295

 

1 Q. When were you questioned by Mr. Sneddon?

 

2 A. Before the grand jury, I think in ‘93 or

 

3 ‘94.

 

4 Q. Was that the only time?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. And do you recall Mr. Sneddon trying to get

 

7 you to agree that your son had been kidnapped by

 

8 Michael Jackson?

 

9 MR. ZONEN: I’m going to object.

 

10 Argumentative; hearsay; and irrelevant.

 

11 MR. SNEDDON: It’s my objection.

 

12 MR. ZONEN: Oh.

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: Let me do it this way. I

 

14 object. Same basis.

 

15 THE COURT: I’ll sustain both of you.

 

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: To your knowledge — all

 

17 right. To your knowledge, has your son ever been

 

18 held against his will by Mr. Jackson?

 

19 A. Never.

 

20 Q. To your knowledge, has your son ever been

 

21 kidnapped by Mr. Jackson?

 

22 A. No.

 

23 Q. To your knowledge, has your son ever been

 

24 abused by Mr. Jackson?

 

25 A. No.

 

26 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, object. Leading;

 

27 asked and answered.

 

28 THE COURT: Sustained. 9296

However, Joy was allowed to elaborate about her true feelings about June Chandler, and surprisingly neither Sneddon nor Zonen objected to her statement that June wanted to be the “mistress” of Neverland, who she felt was a gold-digger trying to use Jackson:

1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The prosecutor asked you

 

2 questions about seeing June Chandler at Neverland.

 

3 Do you remember that?

 

4 A. I do.

 

5 Q. Did you see her at Neverland?

 

6 A. I did.

 

7 Q. Did you talk to her at Neverland?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Was she a friend of yours?

 

10 A. No.

 

11 Q. You didn’t care for her, right?

 

12 A. I did not.

 

13 Q. Why?

 

14 A. My impression of June Chandler was that she

 

15 wanted to be mistress of Neverland; that she was

 

16 ordering the staff around as if she owned Neverland;

 

17 that she wanted everything that went with it. My

 

18 impression of June Chandler was that she was a

 

19 gold-digger.

 

20 Q. Did you see her interact with Mr. Jackson?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. Did you feel she was trying to use Mr.

23 Jackson?

 

24 A. Absolutely.

 

25 Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Jackson about it?

 

26 A. No, I did not.

 

27 Q. The prosecutor asked you about someone named

 

28 Blanca Francia. 9297

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Did you know Blanca Francia?

 

3 A. I don’t know her. I remember her working

 

4 there.

 

5 Q. Did you ever chat with her?

 

6 A. No.

 

7 Q. Do you remember seeing Blanca Francia in Mr.

 

8 Jackson’s room?

 

9 A. I remember seeing her go in there to clean.

 

10 I don’t remember seeing her in there.

 

11 Q. Do you recall being at Neverland when large

 

12 numbers of children would visit?

 

13 A. Yes. Once.

 

14 Q. And when was that?

 

15 A. I don’t remember when it was. It was — I’m

 

16 trying to work out about what age Wade would have

 

17 been. It’s probably around ‘99, 2000. There was a

 

18 group of children there from the — the Wish

 

19 Foundation or Create-a-Wish Foundation.

 

20 Q. Did you spend time with those children?

 

21 A. Yes, I did.

 

22 Q. What did you do with those children?

 

23 A. We played with them on the — in the

 

24 amusement park.

 

25 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, beyond the scope

 

26 of cross.

 

27 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

28 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions, Your 9298

1 Honor.

During his recross examination, Sneddon attempted to discredit Joy by accusing her of being “jealous” of June Chandler because she was eventually “replaced” by her. Joy denied it, and said that June wasn’t very close to Jackson; in fact, Jackson spent one entire weekend trying to avoid June Chandler.

3 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

 

4 BY MR. SNEDDON:

 

5 Q. Miss Robson, you’re not jealous of June

 

6 Chandler, are you, because she displaced you?

 

7 A. Not at all.

 

8 Q. Not at all?

 

9 A. Not at all.

 

10 Q. That wasn’t the feeling you had at the

 

11 ranch, because she was in control?

 

12 A. Absolutely not.

 

13 Q. And her son had replaced your son?

 

14 A. My son was there.

 

15 Q. Yes, but he wasn’t in the bedroom with

 

16 Michael Jackson anymore, was he?

 

17 A. I don’t know that he wanted to be. He was

 

18 Michael’s friend. They were there together as

 

19 friends. I had no wish to be June Chandler.

 

20 Q. Well, I didn’t ask you whether you wished to

 

21 be June Chandler. I asked you whether you were

 

22 jealous of her position.

 

23 A. Certainly not. What position would that be?

 

24 Q. Of being able to be close to Michael Jackson

 

25 at that point in time.

 

26 A. I don’t think she was close to Michael

 

27 Jackson at that time.

 

28 Q. You don’t? 9299

 

1 A. No. As a matter of fact, Michael spent a

 

2 good deal —

 

3 Q. Do you know —

 

4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. She hasn’t

 

5 completed her answer, Your Honor.

 

6 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.

 

7 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Do you know how many trips

 

8 they went on together?

 

9 A. No.

 

10 Q. Do you know how long they spent with each

 

11 other?

 

12 A. No.

 

13 Q. You have no idea, do you?

 

14 A. No.

 

15 Q. So you don’t have any idea how close she was

 

16 to Mr. Jackson at that point in time, no personal

 

17 knowledge?

 

18 A. My personal knowledge from that weekend was

 

19 when I saw Michael Jackson trying to elude June

 

20 Chandler for the entire weekend.

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike as

 

22 nonresponsive, Your Honor.

 

23 THE COURT: Overruled.

Sneddon tried again to taint Joy’s memory by questioning her recollection of what she thinks happened between Jackson and Wade when they slept in the same hotel room in the early 1990’s, and Joy vehemently denied any wrongdoing and staunchly stood by what she was told by Wade. When Sneddon tried to ask Joy about her knowledge of Jackson’s porn collection, Mesereau objected, and Judge Melville sustained the objection. Had he overruled it, Joy would surely have testified that she had no clue that Jackson had that porn, because neither Wade nor any of the other young children there knew about it!

24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And you said that the

 

25 defendant, Mr. Jackson here, was the person who

 

26 easily created trust in people; is that right?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. And in relationship to you and your family, 9300

 

1 he created that trust very easily and very quickly,

 

2 correct?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. You saw him do that with other people, too,

 

5 correct?

 

6 A. No.

 

7 Q. You didn’t?

 

8 A. No.

 

9 Q. You were the only ones that you observed him

 

10 to be trust —

 

11 A. The only time I was ever around anybody else

 

12 with Michael would have been on the set in Chicago

 

13 with the Barnes family and that one weekend with the

 

14 Chandler family.

 

15 Q. So your opinion about Mr. Jackson and his

 

16 ability to form trust quickly and easily has to do

 

17 simply with your family?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. Now, did I understand you correctly that you

 

20 stated that when you came to the country, your visa

 

21 only allowed you to work for MJJ Productions?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. Now, Mr. Mesereau asked you questions about

 

24 were you aware of what was going on in the evening

 

25 in Mr. Jackson’s room. Do you recall that?

 

26 A. He asked me if I’d been into the room.

 

27 Q. In the evening.

 

28 A. Yes. 9301

 

1 Q. Now, you have no idea, once you left that

 

2 room, what went on inside that bedroom, do you, of

 

3 personal knowledge?

 

4 A. Only what my son tells me.

 

5 Q. Well, you don’t know whether they were

 

6 playing video games, correct?

 

7 A. If my son tells me they were, they were.

 

8 Q. Okay. I think I asked you of personal

 

9 knowledge.

 

10 A. That is personal knowledge from my son

 

11 telling me. I believe him.

 

12 Q. Something you saw with your own eyes or

 

13 heard with your own ears, not from your son. Do you

 

14 have any personal knowledge what went on behind

 

15 those closed doors in that bedroom?

 

16 A. Not on every occasion. I was not there on

 

17 every occasion, no.

 

18 Q. For instance, have you talked to Mr.

 

19 Mesereau since the testimony yesterday?

 

20 A. No.

 

21 Q. Did you talk to him at all in preparation

 

22 for your testimony?

 

23 A. We had a brief conversation about how things

 

24 would be in the courtroom, yes.

 

25 Q. And did — are you aware of the fact that at

 

26 the time of the execution of the search warrant in

 

27 this case at Neverland Valley Ranch, that there was

 

28 a whole assortment of sexually explicit magazines 9302

 

1 and books that were found in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom?

 

2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Relevance; beyond

 

3 the scope.

 

4 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

5 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: You told Mr. Mesereau in

 

6 response to his questions that you came to the

 

7 country without any promises from Mr. Jackson; is

 

8 that what you said?

 

9 A. That’s my memory.

 

10 Q. That’s not what you told the grand jury back

 

11 in 1994, was it?

 

12 A. Well, I read something different. I don’t

 

13 remember that.

 

14 Q. Well, that was you testifying, wasn’t it?

 

15 A. Well, I’m saying I don’t remember it now.

 

16 Apparently that’s what I testified to.

 

17 Q. Under oath?

 

18 A. Verbal — maybe they were verbal. What I’m

 

19 saying is there were no contracts. There may have

 

20 been something verbal.

 

21 Q. It didn’t say that in your testimony, did

 

22 it? It said, “Mr. Jackson had arranged the

 

23 following”?

24 A. Well, that’s incorrect.

 

25 Q. But you said it?

 

26 A. Well, I’m sorry. I made a mistake back

 

27 then. There was never anything verbal, never any

 

28 contracts. 9303

 

1 Q. You remember better today than you did back

 

2 then?

 

3 A. Apparently.

 

4 MR. SNEDDON: No further questions.

Under further redirect examination, Mesereau had a few more questions for Joy, including why she staunchly believed her son Wade, but Sneddon’s objection to that question was sustained. Before ending his questioning, Mesereau asked Joy if Jackson had always been available to help out when her family needed it, and she confirmed it. Sneddon declined to further cross-examine Joy.

6 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

 

7 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

8 Q. In response to the prosecutor’s questions,

 

9 you said you believe your son?

 

10 A. Absolutely.

 

11 Q. Why do you believe what your son told you?

 

12 A. We just have a very close relationship.

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: Excuse me, I didn’t ask any

 

14 questions about believing her son. It’s beyond the

 

15 scope of examination.

 

16 THE COURT: I don’t think it’s beyond the

 

17 scope. But it’s an improper question. I’ll sustain

 

18 the objection.

 

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Could you clarify this

 

20 issue of something being arranged when you came to

 

21 the United States; what was arranged, what wasn’t

 

22 arranged?

 

23 A. Well, there were no contracts. I honestly

 

24 don’t know what I was referring to in the grand

 

25 jury. Perhaps — from my memory — I mean, we’re

 

26 going back 12, 13 years.

 

27 From my memory, I remember Michael saying

 

28 that he would help in whatever way he could. That 9304

 

1 he had movie companies. He had, you know, record

 

2 companies. If there’s something he could do, he

 

3 would help. But there were certainly no

 

4 arrangements. We came here and — I mean, I had to

 

5 get a job to work. There was no — there were no

 

6 contracts. There was nothing arranged. I didn’t

 

7 come here expecting Michael Jackson to give Wade a

 

8 career.

 

9 Q. Has Mr. Jackson always been available to

 

10 help your family when you needed some assistance?

 

11 MR. SNEDDON: Object, Your Honor. Beyond

 

12 the scope and leading.

 

13 MR. MESEREAU: I don’t think so, Your Honor.

 

14 He talked about arrangements.

 

15 THE COURT: You may answer.

 

16 THE WITNESS: Michael’s a friend. And like

 

17 any friend, if we needed anything, he would be

 

18 there, and — and vice versa. We were there for

 

19 each other as friends are.

 

20 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions.

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: No questions.

 

22 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You’re

 

23 not being excused. There’s an issue about some

 

24 other questions that I’m going to take up, so you

 

25 may be called back.

 

26 THE WITNESS: All right.

 

27 THE COURT: For now, you may leave.

 

28 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 9305

 

1 THE COURT: Call your next witness.

 

2 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. Defense will call

 

3 Lisbeth Barnes, Your Honor.

 

4 May I take a second?

 

5 She’s not right here, so we will call

 

6 Chantal Robson, Your Honor.

 

7 THE COURT: All right.

 

8 When you get to the witness stand, please

 

9 remain standing.

 

10 Face the clerk here and raise your right

 

11 hand.

There, that settles it. In this series I have studied and analyzed every single syllable that rolled off the tongues of Wade, Chantal, and Joy Robson. Everything is here in pure black and white, so there’s no denying their absolute defense of Jackson in 2005.

Stay tuned to this series for more information on Wade’s lawsuit as it becomes available!

Summary of Joy Robson’s Testimony:

1. Mesereau began his direct examination of Joy by questioning her about her background, how she met Jackson, etc. Mesereau questioned Joy about her recollection of Jackson’s bedroom, which the prosecution spent an inordinate amount of time on during their cross examination of her son Wade. She never personally slept in Jackson’s bedroom suite, but she did give permission for Wade and his sister to sleep there. Notice how Jackson said that they could stay with him IF THEY’D LIKE TO STAY; he did not force them to stay with him.

2. Next, Mesereau asked a few more general questions about Joy’s time with Jackson on a trip to Vegas, her impressions of Neverland, etc. Joy testified that she and her kids spent a lot of time with Jackson in his hotel room, eating popcorn and watching cartoons. This was typical behavior for Jackson, who was often accompanied by his friends while on tour.

3. Joy Robson denied Blanca Francia’s allegations of seeing Jackson shower with Wade Robson, and once again confirmed that her daughter Chantal slept in Jackson’s bedroom, and Mesereau ended his direct examination thereafter.

4. Sneddon began his cross examination by asking Joy for more details about her introduction to Jackson in Australia, and their meeting after she and her family moved to the USA. Afterwards, he insinuated the worst in Jackson by having Joy confirm that her kids slept in Jackson’s bedroom on the first night that they visited Neverland, but Joy testified that her kids told her they slept on the mezzanine level of Jackson’s two-story suite. Sneddon was trying to knock Joy off-guard by focusing on irrelevant semantics; the fact of the matter is that Jackson and her children sought her permission to sleep in his bedroom suite, she granted it and had no problems with it, end of story.

5. Sneddon obviously tried to trip up Joy by constantly referring to her deposition from 1993-94, and contrasting it with what Wade testified to yesterday. He continued along this path by asking Joy to describe her husband’s whereabouts during their visits to Neverland.

6. Sneddon desperately tried to trip up Joy by constantly referring to her deposition from 1993-94, and contrasting it with what Wade testified to yesterday. He continued along this path by asking Joy to describe her husband’s whereabouts during their visits to Neverland. Joy got very snarky when she told Sneddon that he was putting words in her mouth by assuming that she was using Jackson to get Wade a career in show business, and (surprisingly) Judge Melville didn’t admonish her for that.

7. Sneddon tried to use Jackson’s bedroom alarms as a sign of Jackson’s guilt in order to raise suspicion among the jurors, as well as the number of locks on the doors to Jackson’s bedroom. It’s pretty pathetic that at this point in the trial, Sneddon was still trying to use the alarms as a sign that Jackson had nefarious motives, when in fact they helped vindicate him of Star Arvizo’s claims of having not once, but twice walking upstairs to the upper level of Jackson’s bedroom suite and see Jackson molesting Gavin, who he claimed was passed out from being drunk! You can read more about this lie in this post.

 

8. Next, Joy was interrogated about giving approval for Wade to sleep in Jackson’s hotel suite, in an obvious attempt to make her look like an unfit mother in front of the jury. She testified that when Jackson was staying at the Holiday Inn, and she would walk Wade across the street to spend the night with Jackson alone. I’m willing to bet that Wade will say in his upcoming lawsuit that this is one of the occasions when he was “molested” by Jackson.

9. Sneddon segued into an incident that occurred on Mother’s Day in 1990 where Joy cried and complained that her son was spending too much time with Jackson, and preferred to be with Jackson instead of her. Upon reading her 1993 deposition, she acknowledged that she did indeed say that she though Wade was spending too much time with Jackson, but she certainly didn’t mean to imply that she was suspicious of Jackson. What 13 year old boy would want to hang out with his mother over Michael Jackson?!! EVERYONE wanted to be around Jackson!

10. Sneddon tried to reinforce to the jury the stereotype that children lose all sense of discipline and authority at Neverland, and that was just totally overblown by both the prosecution and media. Joy testified that Sneddon misinterpreted Wade’s actions by stating that he and Jackson threw rocks at the cage that the lion was confined in, and not the lion itself. And it’s absolutely ironic and hypocritical that Sneddon would ask about whether or not Wade was ever admonished for driving the golf carts too fast, or getting into any accidents, when both Star and Gavin Arvizo were severely reprimanded for this! They even drove the go-karts off the property and onto the main road! You can read more about their misbehavior in this defense pleading titled “Notice of Motion and Motion to Admit Evidence of Gavin and Star Arvizo’s Sexual Conduct

 

11. Sneddon tried to discredit Joy again by questioning her true motives for moving to the USA from Australia and implying that she was just using her connection with Jackson to help her son with his entertainment career, and pointing out all of the extra advantages that being a friend of Jackson gave her and her family. This was done in an attempt to show the jury that the Robsons had financial motivations for defending Jackson, thus eroding their credibility.

12. Finally, Sneddon’s cross examination came to an end by asking Joy if she was aware that Jackson had been accused of child molestation during the six months that Wade’s recording contract with MJJ Productions was negotiated (she was fully aware; in fact, it caused a significant delay in the negotiations for Wade’s recording contract with Jackson’s MJJ Music label), her concern that law enforcement would manipulate Wade into confessing to being abused by Jackson (other parents complained about this, including Blanca Francia; read this February 1994 article titled “Officials Desperate To Nail Jackson” for more info), and if she withdrew Wade from school because he was being teased at school for sleeping in bed with Jackson (she withdrew him from school to begin homeschooling long before the Chandler allegations surfaced).

 

13. Under redirect examination, Mesereau sought to reestablish Joy’s credibility by having her explain why she trusted Jackson so much. Joy was also asked to clarify the incident where she couldn’t locate Wade’s whereabouts and became concerned. Jackson and Wade were in a recording studio that day, and Jackson didn’t leave on time (as you would expect, considering he’s such a perfectionist when it comes to his music!).

14. Joy was asked to clarify Jackson’s influence over Wade’s show business career (she denied that she was using Jackson to help Wade’s career), why she allowed Wade to spend so much time with him (Jackson felt that Wade reminded him of himself as a young boy), and Jackson’s “special friends” ( a term that had NO sexual or criminal connotations; the young boys would naturally get jealous of another boy was able to spend more time with Jackson, and there was nothing unusual about this).

15. Joy testified that she was the one who asked Jackson for the loans she received, not the other way around. This was crucial because Sneddon insinuated that Jackson offered Joy the money in order to help him earn Joy’s trust so that he could get close to Wade.

16. Mesereau’s next goal was to dispel the misconception that Jackson had ulterior motives for helping Wade Robson with his career, or that the Robsons were gold diggers who used Jackson to help Wade’s career. Joy testified that she never asked Jackson for his help regarding Wade’s career, and he was always supportive of it. Additionally, he wisely asked Joy to further explain why Wade spent the night with Jackson (it most certainly was NOT because she was trying to help wade’s career!), and that it occurred with her knowledge and permission. Wade and Jackson would stay well into the night, and just crash when they felt tired. Joy stated this happened with her and Jackson as well!

17. Jackson’s use of the word “cousin” to describe his young friends was attacked by the prosecution earlier in the day, and they asserted that there were some devious reasons for it, but Joy stated that Jackson called everyone “cousin”, which is consistent with his other nicknames, such as “applehead” and “rubba”.

18. After asking Joy about a variety of different topics, Mesereau asked her to confirm that she was allowed to walk freely in and out of Jackson’s bedroom, which is counter to what the prosecution asserted. She confirmed that Jackson put no restrictions whatsoever on when she could enter his bedroom suite. Joy also testified that there was no quid pro quo between herself and Jackson regarding any of the nice things that he did for her family, and she never felt that she had to repay Jackson.

19. Here’s an example of how utterly desperate Sneddon was to get Jackson in 1993: he tried to “convince” Joy that Wade had been kidnapped by Jackson, but she wouldn’t give in! Before she could elaborate, Judge Melville sustained both Sneddon and Zonen’s objections, and Mesereau moved on to a different topic.

20. However, Joy was allowed to elaborate about her true feelings about June Chandler, and surprisingly neither Sneddon nor Zonen objected to her statement that June wanted to be the “mistress” of Neverland, who she felt was a gold-digger trying to use Jackson.

21. During his recross examination, Sneddon attempted to discredit Joy by accusing her of being “jealous” of June Chandler because she was eventually “replaced” by her. Joy denied it, and said that June wasn’t very close to Jackson; in fact, Jackson spent one entire weekend trying to avoid June Chandler.

22. Sneddon tried again to taint Joy’s memory by questioning her recollection of what she thinks happened between Jackson and Wade when they slept in the same hotel room in the early 1990’s, and Joy vehemently denied any wrongdoing and staunchly stood by what she was told by Wade. When Sneddon tried to ask Joy about her knowledge of Jackson’s porn collection, Mesereau objected, and Judge Melville sustained the objection. Had he overruled it, Joy would surely have testified that she had no clue that Jackson had that porn, because neither Wade nor any of the other young children there knew about it!

23. Under further redirect examination, Mesereau had a few more questions for Joy, including why she staunchly believed her son Wade, but Sneddon’s objection to that question was sustained. Before ending his questioning, Mesereau asked Joy if Jackson had always been available to help out when her family needed it, and she confirmed it. Sneddon declined to further cross-examine Joy.

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18 Comments leave one →
  1. mirna permalink
    September 2, 2014 6:01 pm

    Does it hurt Wade’s credibility that his claim of being molested on the second night he stayed at neverland goes against the profile of a pedophile? or the fact that his mother testified that they only saw mj on 4 occasions out of the 14 years they visited neverland?

  2. mike permalink
    August 7, 2014 2:36 am

    Ty 4 posting this info.

  3. July 15, 2014 3:53 pm

    someone mentioned that wade robson’s claims against MJ include anal sex..is this true?

    • lynande51 permalink*
      July 18, 2014 5:49 pm

      Don’t know. The documents are redacted. Anyone that says otherwise must have some kind of inside information that the public isn’t privy to.

  4. stacy2 permalink
    October 2, 2013 6:48 am

    UPDATE:

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rpcaaq

  5. stacy2 permalink
    September 30, 2013 7:30 am

    just to let you guys know, wade’s case is going to trial..date set for june 2.

  6. nannorris permalink
    May 13, 2013 10:50 pm

    All this talk about Mothers Day and Joy being upset..MJ mother didnt celebrate Mothers Day..I probably never occurred to him that Joy was waiting for her son to spend some special time with her..

  7. May 13, 2013 2:23 am

    @ Angie

    MJ didn’t shower with Wade. Blanca Francia went back and forth about what she saw and didn’t see, which is a good indication that she way lying. In fact, in her 1993 deposition she admitted that she only saw one figure (MJ) in the showers…

  8. Angie permalink
    May 13, 2013 2:00 am

    ‘sanemjfan’, can you tell me what you think about MJ showering with Wade? I know he’s innocent, but don’t you think MJ could of showered alone, and let Wade shower alone?

    • sanemjfan permalink
      May 13, 2013 2:34 am

      @Angie
      MJ didn’t shower with Wade or any other young boy. They both vehemently denied this.

      Blanca Francia is the former Neverland maid who initially claimed to Hard Copy in 1993 that she saw MJ showering with Wade, but in early 1994, during her deposition with Larry Feldman, she said she really couldn’t tell who was in the shower! You can read more about this in my summary of Blanca’s testimony: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/summary-and-analysis-of-the-lies-of-michael-jacksons-former-maid-blanca-francia/ Scroll down to Paragraphs 5039-5042, and 5101-5102 and you’ll see her admit this.

      • nannorris permalink
        May 13, 2013 10:48 pm

        Recently on the vindicatemj site , Helena also reread Blanca explanation of what she supposedly thought she saw, and through pictures of the bathroom taken during the raid, the way the shower was in the bathroom , Blanca wouldnt have been able to see anything from where she says she ws

      • Angie permalink
        May 14, 2013 1:55 am

        Thank you both ‘sanemjfan’, and ‘jacksonaktak’ for clearing that up for me. You guys are the best. I knew MJ wouldn’t do something that stupid.

        • sanemjfan permalink
          May 14, 2013 9:04 am

          No problem Angie! That’s what we’re here for!

Trackbacks

  1. MEDIA ACCOUNTABILITY AND CELEBRITY TRIALS, by Raven Woods | Vindicating Michael
  2. What the HELL is wrong with Wade Robson? Part 3 of 4: Summary and Analysis of Chantal Robson’s Testimony from the 2005 Trial | Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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