April 14th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Janet Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 3 of 3
From there, Janet and Gavin were taken to Jay’s apartment, and she called Jay at work and told him to meet her at the nail salon because she was afraid that her phone calls were still being monitored, and she wanted to talk to him in person. While she was there, Janet had a leg wax. (Remember that fact, because it will become an issue during her cross examination!)
Jay arrived and became very confrontational with Frank over the telephone, and Janet asked Jay to just “play along” and allow Gavin to return to Neverland, while she returned to Jay’s apartment.
4 Q. All right. And after you left that
5 building, where did you go?
6 A. Then I went to the apartment.
7 Q. You went to whose apartment?
8 A. Jay’s apartment.
9 Q. Was Jay there?
10 A. Jay was not there.
11 Q. Was Vinnie with you?
12 A. Vinnie was with me.
13 Q. Was Gavin with you?
14 A. Gavin was with me. But they didn’t go into
15 the apartment.
16 Q. How long did you stay at the apartment?
17 A. Long enough to ask Jay to meet me at the
18 nail shop.
19 Q. All right. Did you call Jay from the nail
20 shop or from the apartment?
21 A. I called him from the apartment and told him
22 to — you know, because since they’re monitoring my
23 phone calls, like I told you how I would speak to
24 people. And then I told him, “Oh, why don’t you
25 meet me in” — “at the nail shop.”
26 Q. All right. Did you then go to the nail
28 A. I did go to the nail shop. 6312
1 Q. Was he there when you got there?
2 A. No, he wasn’t there.
3 Q. Did you have whatever they do at a nail shop
5 A. No. I had used the — their phone. I had
6 waited for Vinnie to cross the street, and that’s
7 when I did it.
8 Q. What do they do, manicures at a nail shop?
9 A. They do manicuring and waxing there.
10 Q. Did you have any of that done?
11 A. I had done only a leg wax.
12 Q. Did you have a manicure?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Where was Vinnie while you were having a leg
15 wax done?
16 A. Okay. He had came in —
17 Q. No, no. Where was Vinnie when you were
18 doing —
19 A. Me, Vinnie and Gavin, when we originally
20 arrived at the nail shop, we were all three
22 Q. And while you were having this procedure —
23 A. No.
24 Q. — where was he?
25 A. First Vinnie checked the area out. And then
26 I told her, “I came here for a leg wax.”
27 Q. While you were having the leg wax, where was
28 Vinnie? 6313
1 A. Then he saw that I was going to do the leg
2 wax, and then that’s when he walked across the
4 Q. So he left?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Where was Gavin?
7 A. With him.
8 Q. He was with him?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did Jay eventually arrive?
11 A. That’s when I called Jay to come.
12 Q. So you called him a second time —
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. — from the beauty salon?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And did he, in fact, come?
17 A. Yes, he did.
18 Q. Now, did you go back with Vinnie?
19 A. No.
20 Q. At some point in time, did Vinnie come back
21 and see Jay?
22 A. Oh, yeah.
23 Q. What happened?
24 A. He turned red.
25 Q. Vinnie did?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. All right. Did Vinnie say something to Jay
28 or to you? 6314
1 A. He said, “Okay. Let’s go now, Janet.”
2 Q. What did you say in response to that?
3 A. I told him that I kind of wanted to stay
4 since I had a Family Court appointment the next day.
5 And so I told — I used that as a reason why I could
6 stay, me — me and Gavin.
7 Q. All right. Did you want to stay with Gavin?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Your other two children were still at
11 A. Yes. But I had to do everything as if —
12 not to raise suspicion.
13 Q. Did you say something to Vinnie specifically
14 that you were not going back?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. What did he say?
17 A. “No. That’s not part of the plan.”
18 Q. Now, was Gavin standing there at the time?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How was Gavin behaving?
21 A. At that time he’s just — he’s just
23 Q. All right.
24 A. It’s until he talks to Frank that he gets —
25 he becomes distressed.
26 Q. Are you aware as to whether or not Vinnie
27 got on the phone with anyone?
28 A. Yes, he did. He goes, “I got to call 6315
2 Q. And did he, in fact, call Frank?
3 A. Yes, he did.
4 Q. Did he have a conversation with Frank in
5 your presence?
6 A. Yes, he did.
7 Q. Were you able to hear what he was saying to
9 A. No, but Gavin got on the phone calls.
10 Q. You noticed that Gavin was on the phone as
12 A. Yes, because Vinnie wanted to talk to
13 Frank — to Gavin. Frank wanted to talk to Gavin.
14 Q. Was Jay Jackson there during this
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Was Jay Jackson in uniform?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And what kind of a uniform does he wear
20 during the day?
21 A. His military uniform. A camouflage.
22 Q. Camouflage. That’s his daily uniform; is
23 that right?
24 A. Yes. That’s his work uniform.
25 Q. At some point in time, was it decided who
26 was going to go back to Neverland and who was going
27 to stay?
28 A. Jay got upset that Frank — that Vinnie had 6316
1 said no. So then Jay starts — he starts becoming a
2 little bit — I don’t know if “confrontational” is a
3 correct word. I don’t know. But a little — you
4 can see that he’s upset. So I — and then that’s
5 when Frank — another time he goes out right there,
6 right outside the nail shop door.
7 And then that’s when I tell Jay, I said,
8 “Please, Jay, please, Davellin and Star are there.
9 Just play along. Just play along.”
10 Q. So who went back to Neverland?
11 A. Vinnie and Gavin.
12 Q. Why did you agree for Gavin to go back to
14 A. Well, because. When Vinnie came back, I
15 said, “Vinnie, Vinnie, I just want to spend some
16 time alone with Jay. You know, that kind of stuff.
17 That’s all. You know, we’ll” — “We’ll see each
18 other back in” — “in the Family Court.” You know,
19 you just bring all my kids, and I’ll go back. I
20 just kind of want to spend some of that kind of
21 time, quality time, with Jay.”
22 So then when — when he saw me behave that
23 way, then he says, “Okay.” He agreed to that.
The next day, March 11th, 2003, Janet went to Family Court for a child support hearing. Vinnie told her that he would bring her kids to the hearing, but he arrived by himself, and took Janet to Jay’s apartment after the hearing was concluded. Later on that day, she and Jay called Karen Walker, one of the three DCFS workers who interviewed her on February 20th, but she could offer no help in getting Janet’s kids returned to her, so Janet concocted a story about her father being sick and wanting to see his grandchildren. Janet told this story to Frank Cascio, and offered herself in exchange for the kids.
24 Q. All right. Family Court?
25 A. Yeah.
26 Q. All right. Tell us about Family Court. Did
27 you have an appearance in Family Court?
28 A. Oh, yes. 6317
1 Q. And when was that appearance scheduled for?
2 A. It was the next day.
3 Q. And had you already told them about that —
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. — the Family Court appearance?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Who is it that you told about the Family
8 Court appearance?
9 A. Frank and Vinnie knew.
10 Q. Did you know whether or not your children
11 had to be at that appearance at Family Court?
12 A. I knew that they didn’t have to be there.
13 But again, it’s like that orthodontist visit. I had
14 said they had to be there.
15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;
16 move to strike.
17 THE COURT: I’ll strike after, “I knew they
18 didn’t have to be there.”
19 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: The question was whether you
20 knew whether or not the kids had to be there. And
21 the answer was you knew?
22 A. I knew they didn’t have to be there.
23 Q. They didn’t have to be there.
24 Did you tell Frank or Vinnie —
25 A. No, I didn’t tell them that. I told them
26 that they had to be there.
27 Q. And who was it you told, Frank or Vinnie or
28 both? 6318
1 A. Both.
2 Q. What was the purpose of the Family Court
3 session on the 11th?
4 A. Because I was finally going to be awarded
6 Q. All right. It was a spousal support, or a
7 child support —
8 A. Spousal support, child support, all that.
9 Q. Were you represented by an attorney during
10 that time?
11 A. Yes, I was.
12 Q. Who was the attorney?
13 A. Michael Manning.
14 Q. Family law lawyer?
15 A. Yes. That I’ve had for years, already
17 Q. All right. Did Vinnie represent that he
18 would or would not bring the children back for this
20 A. He said he will bring all three of my kids
22 Q. Did you spend the night in Los Angeles?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. The next day was the Family Court
26 A. Yes. And now I’ve told Jay everything that
28 Q. So you had a complete conversation? 6319
1 A. Told him everything.
2 Q. All right. Now, did you have an
3 understanding with Vinnie as to how you would get to
4 the Family Court appearance the next day?
5 A. Yes. The condition —
6 Q. Yes or no.
7 A. Oh. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. You’re doing better.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. All right. Now, at what time was that
12 A. The appearance, I don’t remember, but maybe
13 8:00 or —
14 Q. It was a morning appearance?
15 A. It was a morning.
16 Q. How were you going to get to the court
18 A. The condition was Vinnie was going to pick
19 me up and take me there.
20 Q. And the kids?
21 A. With him.
22 Q. All right. Did Vinnie arrive the next
24 A. He did. He went all the way to Neverland
25 and arrived early that morning.
26 Q. All right. When he arrived, did he have the
27 kids with him?
28 A. He had no kids with him. 6320
1 Q. Did he explain to you why the kids weren’t
3 A. He said I had to go back.
4 Q. He said you had to go back?
5 A. I had to go back.
6 Q. All right. Did you go to the Family Court
7 appearance with Vinnie?
8 A. I did.
9 Q. And at the conclusion of the Family Court
10 appearance, where did you go?
11 A. I went back to — I went back to Jay’s.
12 Q. Did he take you back to Jay’s?
13 A. He took me back to Jay’s.
14 Q. You did not go back to Neverland?
15 A. I didn’t go back to Neverland.
16 Q. Did you ever go back to Neverland?
17 A. I never went back to Neverland.
18 Q. Now, this is now the 11th of March; is that
20 A. Yes, it is.
21 Q. Did you engage in some effort at this point
22 to get your kids delivered to Los Angeles?
23 A. I did.
24 Q. All right. What was this effort? What did
25 you do?
26 A. When Jay came home, we called Karen Walker,
27 the supervisor of the — I don’t know. CPS, DCFS,
28 that. And I and Jay both talked to her, and she 6321
1 said, “It’s out of my hands. It’s out of my hands.
2 Go get yourself some legal help. I’m sorry, I can’t
3 help you.” That’s what she said.
4 Q. Was Karen —
5 A. Karen Walker said that.
6 Q. Hold on.
7 Was Karen Walker one of the three that had
8 been to Jay’s —
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Listen to the whole question.
11 Was Karen Walker one of the three workers
12 who had been to Jay’s apartment on the day of that
13 interview on the 20th?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, after you called Karen Walker, what did
16 you then do?
17 A. She didn’t help us, me or Jay. We both
18 talked to them, and so we were trying to find a way
19 where we can go get the kids where they wouldn’t do
20 anything before we got the kids.
21 Q. What did you decide to do?
22 A. For my parents to play sick. My —
23 specifically my dad.
24 Q. So did you have one of your parents call
26 A. Okay. When Jay returned to work, he called
27 from his work, because now he’s aware that our phone
28 calls are being monitored. 6322
1 Q. So he called from work to whom?
2 A. To my parents.
3 Q. And talked with who, your father?
4 A. With my dad, and — well, my dad and mom,
5 but my mom speaks only Spanish, so my dad told my
7 Q. Okay. And in that process communicated to
8 them this plan?
9 A. Yes. Yes.
10 Q. Now, were the kids at some point in time
11 then delivered to your parents’ house?
12 A. Yes, I negotiated for my kids. I told them
13 I would give them myself in exchange for my parents
14 being able to see my children.
15 Q. Who did you talk to?
16 A. To Frank.
17 Q. And did you tell him that; that you would —
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. — go back to Neverland?
20 A. Yes, I negotiated for one hour. One hour.
21 And I got two. And then I got a day. And then I
22 finally got two days.
23 Q. All right. So by the time you got off the
24 phone with Frank, it was understood that your kids
25 would visit for how long?
26 A. For two days.
27 Q. And that was a conversation that you had
28 with Frank? 6323
1 A. With Frank.
2 Q. And you were placing that phone call to
3 Frank, or he called you? Which?
4 A. Let me see. I had originally — as Jay’s
5 calling my parents, I’m calling Frank. And I’m
6 letting him know.
7 Q. So you called Frank?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And you called from which telephone?
10 A. From Jay’s apartment.
11 Q. And you called Frank on the number that you
12 had for him?
13 A. I think — I don’t know whether it was his
14 number or Neverland number, but on the other line
15 was Frank, on the other end of the line.
16 Q. Were your kids, in fact, delivered to your
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Was it that day or the next day?
20 A. That day.
21 Q. Were you present at the time —
22 A. And I was made aware that our every step is
23 being watched.
24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
26 THE COURT: Stricken.
27 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Were you there at the time
28 your kids were delivered to your parents’ house? 6324
1 A. No, I was —
2 Q. Do you know what time it was that you
3 finally saw your kids?
4 A. In the evening.
5 Q. Did you go with Jay?
6 A. Yes.
When Jay Jackson and Janet Arivzo arrived at her parent’s house, Gavin, Davellin, and Star had already been dropped off, and Janet complained that Gavin became angry and violent because he wanted to go back to Neverland! This was a crumbling blow to the prosecution, because why on earth would Gavin so vehemently want to return to Neverland if he had been abused there several days (or weeks, depending on what version of his story you believe) prior to leaving?
Janet testified that Gavin wasn’t allowed to bring his luggage back home, but Star and Davellin were allowed to bring theirs, and after they returned home, a different set of people that she had never seen before starting surveilling her apartment.
7 Q. All right. At the time you got to your
8 parents’ house, who is present? Who was there?
9 A. My mom and dad and my three children.
10 Q. How were your children behaving at that
11 time? Let me be more specific. How was Gavin
12 behaving at the time you got there?
13 A. They were not my kids anymore.
14 Q. Well, describe Gavin’s behavior
15 specifically, how he was behaving.
16 A. He didn’t want to talk to Jay.
17 Q. We’re talking about Gavin right now.
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Describe Gavin’s behavior specifically.
20 A. Angry, violent. Yeah.
21 Q. Did you tell him that he was not going back
22 to Neverland?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. And you say “angry” and “violent.” What do
25 you mean? Describe what he was doing or what he was
27 A. Just hollering, telling me that — yelling
28 at me at the top of his lungs that Michael loves 6325
1 him, and that he had to go back.
2 Q. All right. Were you the one telling him he
3 wasn’t going back?
4 A. That’s right.
5 Q. How long did his behavior continue that way?
6 A. For hours.
7 Q. How long was it before his behavior was back
8 to normal?
9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Assumes facts not
10 in evidence; no foundation.
11 THE COURT: Overruled.
12 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You can answer the question.
13 A. It took a long time.
14 Q. And what is that, “a long time”? Give me a
15 sense of it.
16 A. I can’t.
17 Q. Are we talking about days or weeks or
19 A. It took weeks.
20 Q. Weeks?
21 When did you tell either Frank or Vinnie
22 that none of you were going back to Neverland?
23 A. Excuse me. I didn’t call Frank or Vinnie.
24 We contacted Jesus the very next day.
25 Q. You contacted Jesus?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Did you tell him?
28 A. Yes. 6326
1 Q. All right. What happened after you told
3 A. And we weren’t coming back. And the only
4 reason we contacted Jesus was because when the
5 children were leaving, Frank had taken away all of
6 the new clothes that they had purchased, plus some
7 of my children’s clothing also in the — in the
8 removing the new clothes, because Frank had told
9 them that they had to come back if they wanted their
10 new clothes.
11 Q. When they came to your mother’s house, do
12 you know if they actually had anything with them
13 when they came?
14 A. Gavin wasn’t allowed to bring nothing.
16 Q. And how about the other two?
17 A. The other two did bring their luggages and
18 my bag with them.
19 Q. Did you start receiving telephone calls or
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. All right.
23 A. Immediately.
24 Q. And in terms of visits, who was it who came
25 to the house?
26 A. It wasn’t visiting. It was — it was
27 following us in a very, very visual way. Knocks.
28 Throwing rocks. Following us. Very — they weren’t 6327
1 hiding about it. They were in-my-face type of
3 Q. Do you know —
4 A. To come back.
5 Q. Are we talking about people who now are new,
6 people-you-hadn’t-seen people, or —
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. Wait till the question is answered (sic).
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. Are you talking about people you hadn’t seen
11 before or people that you were familiar with?
12 A. People that I hadn’t seen before. And also,
13 in addition to that, new ones.
14 Q. Among the people that you had seen before,
15 tell us who they were.
16 A. The people that I seen before was Johnny,
17 Frank and Vinnie. And then some other people.
Additionally, Janet claimed that both Frank and Vinnie showed up at Jay’s apartment, buy she refused to answer the door or acknowledge them in any way.
18 Q. You actually saw Frank and Vinnie at some
20 A. Yes, yes.
21 Q. Where?
22 A. At Jay’s apartment. And I knew it, because
23 I looked through the peephole.
24 Q. Did you stay at your parents’ house?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Did you go to Jay’s?
27 A. Jay’s.
28 Q. Did you stay anyplace but Jay’s thereafter? 6328
1 A. Only Jay’s. And I enrolled Davellin,
2 because I believe in, you know —
3 Q. No, the question is whether you stayed at
4 some other location.
5 A. No, just Jay’s.
6 Q. For what period of time did you stay at
8 A. From that point on, till now.
9 Q. Your Soto Street apartment was now vacated?
10 A. Gone.
11 Q. You said that you saw Frank and Vinnie at
12 Jay’s. Did you actually talk to them?
13 A. No. I didn’t open the door.
14 Q. You saw them through the peephole?
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. Both of them together or on different
18 A. Well, on this occasion they were both
20 Q. Were they saying anything to you?
21 A. Yeah. “Open the door.” Just knocking.
22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
24 THE COURT: Sustained.
25 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you know who it was who
26 was talking to you through the door?
27 A. Frank. I could see him through the — I
28 could see everything. 6329
1 Q. Were you able to hear his voice?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You could hear what he was saying?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And did you recognize his voice?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you engage either one of them in
8 conversation through the door?
9 A. No. Zero.
10 Q. Did you acknowledge to them that you were
12 A. No. Didn’t even want to let them know that
13 I was there. But they knew. Because Frank was
14 saying, “I know you’re in there.”
15 Q. Were you receiving telephone calls as well?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Continuously?
18 A. Continuously.
19 Q. Were you answering any of the calls?
20 A. No. No more answering.
21 Q. Did you have any conversation with Vinnie or
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you ever see Johnny?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Okay. Where did you see Johnny?
27 A. On my front door. And also there was one
28 time when I was watching through the peephole, he 6330
1 had slipped a note through the side of Jay’s
2 apartment. Before — before they had put this thing
3 around there, it was open all the way around, and so
4 he slipped a note through there. And I saw him
5 writing it.
6 MR. ZONEN: May I approach the witness?
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Exhibit No. 277, please, for
9 identification, have you seen that exhibit before?
10 A. Yes, I have.
11 Q. Is that the note that you just described?
12 A. Yes, this — this is the note.
13 Q. And how do you know that it was Johnny who
14 left that note?
15 A. Because I’m looking at him while he’s
16 writing it. I’m looking at him as he’s slipping it
18 Q. Okay. And he left that note where?
19 A. At Jay’s apartment.
20 Q. And that’s the note you then turned over to
21 law enforcement?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 MR. ZONEN: Move to —
24 THE WITNESS: I put it in —
25 MR. ZONEN: Move to admit that exhibit into
26 evidence, please.
27 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.
28 THE COURT: It’s admitted. 6331
1 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, may I publish that
2 note, please?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Now, it appears there’s
5 something on the front and on the back; is that
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What is the back part? I’m assuming that’s
9 the back. What does that say?
10 A. It says, “To Star or Gavin.”
11 Q. And then on the front it says?
12 A. It says, “Please call Frank, Vinnie, at
13 emergency, 1-805-686-5466.” And it says “Now,” and
14 it’s underlined.
15 Q. The top part’s in red. “Now” is in what
17 A. Blue.
18 Q. And the back, “To Star or Gavin,” is?
19 A. In black.
20 Q. Is that the front of the note that’s 277,
21 Exhibit 277? Miss Arvizo, is that, in fact, what
22 we’re looking at, the same thing?
23 A. Yes. Yes.
24 Q. And I’m going to turn it over at this time.
25 And this is the part that says, “To Star or
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Now, in response to that note, did you call 6332
1 either Star or Gavin?
2 A. No. No.
3 Q. I’m sorry, did you — did you call either
4 Frank or Vinnie in response to that?
5 A. No more. And then —
6 Q. Do you recall at this point you had any
7 conversations with Frank or Vinnie?
8 A. No more.
9 Q. For what period of time did this continue,
10 the phone calls and things like that?
11 A. It — it went for months.
12 Q. You said at one point stones were thrown?
13 A. Yes. At my mom’s house.
14 Q. Did you ever see who was doing that?
15 A. No, I didn’t. Davellin saw him.
16 Q. All right. But you were not present at the
17 time it happened?
18 A. No. It was my mom and Davellin present.
19 Q. Now, I think that you had also said that
20 people were following you?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. How did you become aware of the fact that
23 people were following you?
24 A. Because now they were in my face.
25 Q. And explain what that means.
26 A. Meaning before, everything was being done a
27 little bit — a little bit secretly. And now it
28 was — I mean, it was more intimidating than it was 6333
1 before. That’s the best I can say.
2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
4 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.
5 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Could you tell who it was who
6 was following you?
7 A. Yes. Johnny. And then some of those other
8 people that I had told you I never came to know who
9 they were. And this is the first time I also saw a
10 female and — because the rest were always male.
11 And then —
12 Q. Did you recognize any of them, other than
14 A. Only Johnny. And then — and then they were
15 replaced by some other people.
16 Q. How were you aware of the fact that people
17 were following you? I mean, what is it that you
18 noticed specifically?
19 A. Well, I’m in the lane, they change the lane.
20 I’m in a lane, they change a lane. I get off, they
21 get off. I go to my under — Jay’s underground
22 parking, they’re right there. When I’m — when
23 Gavin went to church, one of these — there’s —
24 there’s — I don’t know what kind of camera, but
25 it’s kind of like this, right there. Just right
26 there, showing me that they’re doing it.
Here is yet another example of the prosecution’s desperation: Zonen wanted to play videotapes of Bradley Miller’s surveillance tapes from Janet’s Soto apartment, and Mesereau objected because there was no foundation laid that they really were his tapes. Also, there was wording added to the tapes that Mesereau felt would influence the jury, which is yet another form of evidence tampering. Mesereau wanted each tape played individually, in its original form, but Zonen wanted to play the compilation DVD that the prosecution made of the tapes. Judge Melville excused the jury as he let Zonen and Mesereau make their respective cases for and against the playing of the tapes, and things got very heated! They both accused each other of lying, and Zonen sarcastically said that he’d take a polygraph test, and Mesereau snapped back and said “You’ll fail it!”, so Judge Melville had to admonish both of them to stop.
27 Q. All right. Now, at some point in time, were
28 you actually shown video images of yourself and your 6334
2 A. Barely now. Just the other day. Mr. Zonen
3 showed it to me.
4 Q. All right. Did you see other images at the
5 time of the grand jury?
6 A. No —
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. — I didn’t.
9 Q. You have no recollection of seeing other
11 A. No.
12 MR. ZONEN: All right. Your Honor, Exhibit
13 No. 813 is a DVD. I’ve consulted with counsel.
14 We’ve agreed it can be played at this time. There’s
15 no sound, so there’s no transcript.
16 Q. Now, you’ve had an opportunity to view these
17 images in advance; is that correct?
18 A. Yes. Yes, Mr. Zonen.
19 Q. And you have recognized the people in it; is
20 that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 THE COURT: How long is it?
23 MR. ZONEN: I’m sorry?
24 THE COURT: How long is it?
25 MR. ZONEN: Five minutes. Five, six
26 minutes. About that, I think. If we can, let’s go
28 Q. Excuse me one second. 6335
1 Part of this, as well, is of your apartment
2 on Soto Street, is it not?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. There appears to be people moving your
5 things out?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And that’s at the very end of it?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. ZONEN: Let me revise it. I think it’s
10 more like ten minutes.
11 THE COURT: Is this the PC, “No. 1”?
12 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It is, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: You’re ready?
14 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes.
15 MR. ZONEN: We’re ready.
16 (Whereupon, a portion of a DVD, Plaintiff’s
17 Exhibit No. 813, was played for the Court and jury.)
18 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, they added the
19 title to that. I didn’t approve that. That’s
20 nothing we’ve seen before. Mr. Zonen added it.
21 It’s not part of the original, so we object to this.
22 MR. ZONEN: Well, I — all right.
23 MR. MESEREAU: We object on foundation and
24 authenticity and that it’s been tampered with.
25 THE COURT: All right. The —
26 MR. ZONEN: I’d like to be heard on that
28 THE COURT: You may, but — maybe what we’ll 6336
1 do —
2 MR. ZONEN: All right. There is —
3 THE COURT: I think we’ll — I think we’ll
4 excuse the jury, and let you discuss it with me.
5 That way they’ll get a little extra break here.
7 (The following proceedings were held in
8 open court outside the presence and hearing of the
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 MR. ZONEN: Are we back in session?
13 THE COURT: We are back in session.
14 Mr. Mesereau.
15 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Maybe you want to — can you move
17 it back to the opening screen so we can look at what
18 the objection was about?
19 MR. ZONEN: While he’s doing it, I can
20 explain what the understanding was that we had that
21 preexisted the showing.
22 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It’s up, Your Honor, if
23 you go to “Input 1.”
24 THE COURT: This is what you were objecting
25 to, Mr. Mesereau?
26 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
27 MR. ZONEN: I explained —
28 THE COURT: Could I have Mr. Mesereau’s 6337
1 objection, so I fully understand it?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
3 This particular wording is not part of the
4 original tape. It’s been added by the prosecution.
5 It was not disclosed to me. It was done to
6 influence the jury. There’s been no foundation laid
7 that these are Brad Miller’s surveillance tapes at
8 all. The numbers have been added by them.
9 THE COURT: So, to be specific, what we’re
10 looking at is the “Brad Miller Surveillance
11 Videotape, Item 811, 812, 816 and 815,” and that was
12 not on the —
13 MR. MESEREAU: No, not —
14 THE COURT: — not on the DVD that you saw?
15 MR. MESEREAU: Not that I have seen.
16 They have laid no foundation to prove that
17 Brad Miller arranged to have these tapes made. They
18 have thrown different names around, Johnny and Asaf,
19 et cetera. They have not ever proven who these
20 people actually worked for. They haven’t proven who
21 did the surveillance. They haven’t laid a
22 foundation to where they found these tapes and
23 whether or not they’ve been tampered with. There’s
24 no authenticity. There’s no foundation. There’s no
25 logical connection, and they basically tampered with
26 the tapes by adding these words.
27 THE COURT: Was there an agreement.
28 MR. MESEREAU: Not to have this. That’s a 6338
1 surprise to me.
2 THE COURT: All right.
3 MR. ZONEN: Well, counsel knows that they’re
4 not tampered with at all.
5 And furthermore, we had a discussion in
6 advance of showing this where I explained to counsel
7 that there were two witnesses who will subsequently
8 lay a foundation. The first witness who will
9 testify that these — that this is a compilation of
10 tapes that were — it’s — it’s put now onto one DVD
11 that were, in fact, a compilation of tapes that were
12 seized from – guess where? – Brad Miller’s office.
13 And the second witness will be the one who actually
14 seized the tapes from Brad Miller’s office.
15 All right. Now, the content of the
16 surveillance thereafter is identical. Nobody has
17 touched anything on there, and counsel knows that.
18 My —
19 MR. MESEREAU: I don’t know that.
20 MR. ZONEN: I had asked him if it would be
21 agreeable that we could show this in advance of the
22 other two witnesses laying the foundation; one, that
23 they were seized from Brad Miller’s office; and
24 number two, that they were compiled into one DVD for
25 ease of showing at this time, and he agreed to that.
26 My suggestion at this time is that you
27 instruct the jury to disregard this frame on it, and
28 we will commence the showing from the point where 6339
1 the car is in — in session.
2 MR. MESEREAU: We object on foundational and
3 authenticity, Your Honor. And we’d ask that the
4 individual tapes be played, not their concoction.
5 MR. ZONEN: Well, you know, I had asked his
6 permission and he gave it to me to do so.
7 MR. MESEREAU: To play videotapes.
8 MR. ZONEN: Wait a second.
9 I am relying upon his representation of what
10 he said he was agreeing for us to do.
11 THE COURT: Sounds like he thought you were
12 going to play two separate —
13 MR. ZONEN: No, he didn’t. I made it —
14 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, I did. Nowhere was this
15 ever described to me.
16 MR. ZONEN: I made it very clear that we
17 compiled it into one DVD. Now, this I did not say.
18 This I didn’t know was going to be shown.
19 THE COURT: What’s the — what’s the
20 compilation? Is it a serial, just the first one and
21 then the second one?
22 MR. ZONEN: Yes; one right after the other.
23 THE COURT: You intermixed the two?
24 MR. ZONEN: We can show it to you right now.
25 It only takes a couple minutes, if you’d like to see
27 THE COURT: I thought you said ten minutes.
28 MR. ZONEN: The bulk of it is the cleaning 6340
1 out of the apartment, which is one separate tape,
2 but the initial surveillance is less than five
3 minutes, of different segments of surveillance.
4 MR. MESEREAU: I might suggest, Your Honor,
5 that the cleaning out of the apartment, as I
6 understand it, was to show what was being moved in
7 or out, and it’s not a surveillance tape. That is
8 their concoction.
9 MR. ZONEN: Once again, this was something
10 counsel approved of.
11 MR. MESEREAU: No, I didn’t.
12 MR. ZONEN: He’s lying. That’s simply not
14 MR. MESEREAU: He’s lying.
15 THE COURT: All right.
16 MR. ZONEN: I’ll take a polygraph.
17 MR. MESEREAU: You’ll fail it.
18 THE COURT: Just a moment. I don’t want to
19 hear anything like that. You don’t accuse each
20 other of lying. There’s a misunderstanding here.
21 You’ve added something. And that’s not professional
22 conduct. I won’t put up with that.
23 Do you understand, Mr. Zonen?
24 MR. ZONEN: Yes.
25 THE COURT: And you are not to respond to
26 him. You two talk to me.
27 MR. MESEREAU: I apologize, Your Honor.
28 THE COURT: Now, I think what we’ll do is, 6341
1 I will explain to the jury that the initial title of
2 the tape was added by the District Attorney, and
3 they’re to disregard that; that this is a
4 compilation of two separate videos, and that it’s
5 being entered with —
6 MR. ZONEN: Let me have just one moment,
7 please. Let me have one moment.
8 MR. MESEREAU: If I may, Your Honor, it’s
9 four videos they’re made to look like one. They’re
10 not one at all.
11 MR. ZONEN: Let me have just one moment.
12 THE COURT: All right.
13 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
15 MR. MESEREAU: If I may address the Court,
16 Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: Wait till he’s through with his
19 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
20 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
22 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we’re going to play
23 the original ones. We’re going — as soon as we get
24 it. We will not play this one. We will do the
25 originals. We don’t have them here. We’re going to
26 make arrangements to get them as quickly as we can.
27 THE COURT: All right. I think I — I think
28 I find that to be an acceptable way to proceed. I 6342
1 do want to tell the jury, though, when they come
2 back in that the initial title they saw was, in
3 fact, added by you, and not part of the seized
4 tapes. They were tapes, right?
5 MR. ZONEN: Yes. The original videotapes
6 have been transposed to a DVD.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
9 MR. SNEDDON: Ron?
10 Can I just have one moment?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
14 MR. ZONEN: The problem that we’re dealing
15 with at this moment is that all of the detectives
16 are currently at a funeral, and I’m not sure that
17 we’re going to be able to get — are we —
18 THE COURT: Let me tell you, what we’ll do
19 is, you know, we’ll start our break now that we
20 normally take at 1:15. So, the jury’s already out,
21 so we won’t bring them back in. And we’ll just
22 start our break, and take a — let’s take a
23 20-minute break, and then you can decide how you’re
24 going to proceed on the break.
25 What we do know is you’re not going to —
26 MR. ZONEN: I will be not showing this one.
27 I will show the originals.
28 THE COURT: And I do want to remember, when 6343
1 they come back in, to tell them to disregard the
2 opening title. And — okay? Any objection to that?
3 MR. MESEREAU: No, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: All right. Let’s start our
5 break, then.
6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Can you go to “Black
7 Screen,” Your Honor? Thank you.
8 (Recess taken.)
10 (The following proceedings were held in
11 open court in the presence and hearing of the
Zonen decided to withdraw the exhibit and play it the following morning, and he resumed his direct examination of Janet Arvizo by asking her the lack of schooling for her children during their time at Neverland. She was allegedly told by Frank and Vinnie that she and her family would not get any tutoring until they made it to Brazil.
14 THE COURT: Go ahead.
15 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we’re going to
16 withdraw this exhibit at this time and we’re going
17 to play it tomorrow morning.
18 THE COURT: (To the jury) All right. On the
19 exhibit that we started to show you just before the
20 break, there was a label, a heading on it, and the
21 label was not part of the seized exhibit. It was
22 added by the District Attorney as a title, and I’m
23 going to instruct you to disregard that label and do
24 not consider it in any way in your deliberations in
25 the case. And you’ll — you will see the material
26 but it will come in in a different form than it was
27 going to come in today.
28 All right. You may proceed. 6344
1 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed)
4 BY MR. ZONEN:
5 Q. Miss Arvizo, by the time that you got back
6 to El Monte and then back to your residence in Los
7 Angeles, how long had the children been out of
9 A. About less than two months. Less than.
10 Q. Did they have any instruction during that
11 period of time at all?
12 A. None. Zero.
13 Q. Did you have, during that period of time,
14 a conversation with either Michael Jackson or Vinnie
15 or Frank about them getting tutoring?
16 A. Yeah. We had to go to Brazil if we wanted
17 to get tutored.
18 Q. Who was that you had a conversation with?
19 A. With Frank and Vinnie.
20 Q. At different times or together?
21 A. Different times, together.
22 Q. What did Frank tell you specifically about
24 A. That if I wanted a tutor for my children,
25 that we had to leave the country and go to Brazil;
26 that they could provide a tutor there. Everything
27 was always Brazil.
28 Q. All right. Was there any mention by either 6345
1 Frank or Vinnie that a tutor had already been
2 arranged in Brazil?
3 A. I can’t remember that.
4 Q. All right. Did either one of them tell you
5 where specifically in Brazil you were going to be
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Where?
9 A. In Brazil, it had to be in a place where
10 there was no American hotels, no hotels, so no one
11 could notice me and my children.
12 Q. Did they tell you whether any of them,
13 meaning Frank or Vinnie, would be going with you to
15 A. Yes. Frank and Vinnie and Brad Miller and
16 Marc Schaffel had already prepared an apartment full
17 of surveillance and everything there. This is what
18 Frank and Vinnie told me.
19 Q. Did they tell you what city in Brazil?
20 A. No. They did tell me that it was away from
21 any hotel.
22 Q. Did they tell you what size city or
23 community or town you would be going to?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did they tell you how long you would be
27 A. Until they did damage control for Mr.
28 Jackson. And I followed everything that they said. 6346
1 There may be a possibility that I could come back,
2 depending on what I did.
3 Q. Did they actually tell you in terms of days
4 or weeks or months?
5 A. At this point, no. It was until they
7 Q. Did they tell you whether or not Mr. Jackson
8 would be joining you there in Brazil?
9 A. No. Mr. Jackson would not be joining us
11 Q. Did either of them say that specifically?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Who?
14 A. Frank and Vinnie. And remember, this is an
15 evolution, different times —
16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike her
18 THE COURT: I’ll strike the last sentence.
19 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you recall when the
20 conversation was specifically with Frank about
21 whether or not Michael Jackson would be joining you
23 A. That was towards the end. There was going
24 to be just me and my kids, and — in the apartment
25 that Brad Miller, Marc Schaffel had prepared full of
26 high-tech monitoring surveilling system, surveilling
27 me and the kids, and —
28 Q. Did your two sons and Davellin enroll back 6347
1 in school again?
2 A. Yes, I enrolled them back in school.
3 Q. Which school did the boys enroll in?
4 A. The boys re — I reenrolled them back into
5 John Burroughs.
6 Q. Did you continue living at the St. Andrews
8 A. I now began living in the St. Andrews
10 Q. Full time?
11 A. Full time in a one-bedroom apartment, now
12 with Jay.
13 Q. Where did Davellin reenroll in?
14 A. I enrolled her in a high school near my
15 mom’s out in El Monte.
16 Q. This is a different high school —
17 A. Different high school.
18 Q. Hold on. Wait till the question is asked.
19 This is a different high school than the one
20 prior to going to Miami?
21 A. That’s correct, it’s a different high school
23 Q. And which high school was it in El Monte?
24 A. Now it’s Mountain View High School.
25 Q. And did she live with your parents?
26 A. Now my daughter began living with my
28 Q. Where does she live now? 6348
1 A. My — my daughter lives with us now.
Next, Janet was asked about the furniture that she had returned to her after getting her attorney William Dickerman to send letters requesting their return to Mark Geragos. Additionally, she wanted Dickerman to stop Geragos’ investigators from surveilling her.
2 Q. Were you able to get your possessions back?
3 A. Until the police got involved.
4 Q. Did you know — by “possessions,” I mean
5 your possessions from the Soto Street address.
6 A. That’s correct.
7 Q. What did you have at the Soto Street address
8 at the time that it was moved from that location?
9 A. All my stuff. All my stuff from my
11 Q. What do you mean by “stuff”?
12 A. My furniture, the — what was still there,
13 because some — some of these things got rid of.
14 Q. All right.
15 A. Our clothing. Our —
16 Let me see. What else?
17 Q. Did you have furniture?
18 A. No. The only thing that they left in there
19 was my kitchen table with my kitchen chairs.
20 Q. All right. But was there some understanding
21 with either Frank or Vinnie or somebody else that
22 your possessions would either be stored or moved?
23 A. No. At this point it was a no. Remember I
24 said I would think about it? And then I finally
25 said no.
26 Q. When you finally got your possessions back,
27 was what was returned to you everything that existed
28 in the apartment? 6349
1 A. No.
2 Q. What was missing?
3 A. What was missing was all of — everything to
4 do with Mr. Jackson. Everything.
5 Q. How about furnishings, furniture?
6 A. My kitchen table, my chairs were returned
7 back to me.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. My children’s clothing, my clothing. My
10 pictures that were hanging on my wall.
11 Q. Were returned?
12 A. Were returned.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. And — but all the stuff that Mr. Jackson
15 had given Gavin were gone.
16 Q. Did you have kitchen appliances of sorts?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Pots and pans?
19 A. Yes, I did.
20 Q. Silverware?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Plates?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Cups?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Was that all returned?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Prior to going to Miami had you moved any of 6350
1 your possessions to Jay’s apartment?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you seek help from anybody in an effort
4 to get your property back?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. Who?
7 A. From Mr. Dickerman.
8 Q. Before contacting Mr. Dickerman, did you
9 contact anybody from Neverland to —
10 A. No.
11 Q. Wait till the whole question’s asked.
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. Before contacting Mr. Dickerman, did you
14 contact anybody from Neverland in an effort to get
15 your property returned?
16 A. No way.
17 Q. Did you have any other conversations with
18 anybody from Neverland after you left?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Did you know where your possessions were?
21 A. No, I didn’t.
22 Q. Did Mr. Dickerman write a number of letters
23 on your behalf?
24 A. Yes, he did.
25 Q. Did you read those letters?
26 A. Yes, I did.
27 Q. Had you noted — had you seen your passports
28 prior — well, you answered that you had seen them 6351
1 with Frank; is that right?
2 A. No. Vinnie.
3 Q. I’m sorry, with Vinnie.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Were your passports among the items that
6 were requested to be returned?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And I assume they were not returned to you?
9 A. They weren’t. They weren’t.
10 Q. Were there other personal items that were
11 requested returned?
12 A. Yes. The children’s clothing. That’s one
13 of them.
14 Q. Was there something else that you wanted Mr.
15 Dickerman to do on your behalf?
16 A. Yes. For Michael’s people to stop following
17 us; that we did not want to go back. To get the
18 message, “Please, leave us alone.”
19 Q. Was that communicated in the form of a
20 letter as well?
21 A. Yes, it was.
22 Q. And do you know to whom those letters were
24 A. To Mr. Geragos.
25 Q. Mark Geragos?
26 A. Yes.
On February 21st, 2003, Janet met with Karen Walker, the supervisor of the DCFS social workers and signed a document. Walker drove to her house, and Janet allegedly tried to talk to her in private, but Vinnie was nearby and prevented her from doing so. Instead, Vinnie told Walker that the Arvizo children were going to be enrolled in school immediately.
27 Q. Do you know if your children were still
28 appearing on television in that production “Living 6352
1 with Michael Jackson”?
2 A. Yes, they were.
3 Q. How do you know that?
4 A. Because Mr. Dickerman had told me, Jamie had
5 told me.
6 Q. Others were telling you —
7 A. Others were telling us.
8 Q. — that it was still being featured?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did Mr. Dickerman on your behalf attempt to
11 get your children off television?
12 A. Yes, he did.
13 Q. At some point in time — I’d like to move
14 back one second, if I could.
15 I believe that you had testified that the
16 workers, the social workers from the Department of
17 Child & Family Services, that interview was
18 conducted on the 20th in the morning hours; is that
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did you see any of them the next day?
22 A. Yes, I did. On the 21st I did.
23 Q. Who did you see on the 21st?
24 A. I saw Karen Walker, the supervisor.
25 Q. What was the purpose of that meeting?
26 A. She had called — like I had mentioned
27 before, all my phone calls was being monitored every
28 day, 24 hours a day. Monitored, listened, 6353
1 surveilled, watched, followed. Everything.
2 She had came — she requested that I sign a
3 paper that said I understood the language in
4 English. Bilingual form.
5 Q. All right.
6 A. Over the phone. So I went ahead, I said,
7 “Yes, please come.”
8 Q. And did you sign that document?
9 A. Yes. She came, she met me outside. And I
10 tried to run around on her driver’s side to try to
11 talk to her secretly, and at that time I’m being
12 followed right here, and Vinnie’s right here, so I
13 was unable to communicate to her. So when I ran
14 around this way, now Vinnie comes up and talks to
15 her, and I’m trying to talk where — behind him to
17 Q. Was she in her car at the time?
18 A. She was in her car.
19 Q. Do you know what kind of a car she was
21 A. I can’t remember.
22 Q. Do you know cars at all?
23 A. Yeah, I do.
24 Q. Was it a sedan, or some other kind of car?
25 A. No, no. It was kind of like a little —
26 kind of like a little — I don’t know if it’s called
27 a little SUV. I don’t know. Kind of like a Range
28 Rover type of thing. 6354
1 Q. Did you communicate to her anything other
2 than the fact you spoke both English and Spanish?
3 A. No. But when Vinnie was talking to her,
4 telling her that —
5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;
6 move to strike.
7 THE COURT: I’ll strike after, “No.”
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did Vinnie say something to
9 Karen Walker in your presence?
10 A. Yes, he did.
11 Q. All right. Where was Vinnie standing at the
13 A. Right there on the passenger-side window,
14 talking to her.
15 Q. And where were you?
16 A. I was right here.
17 Q. I don’t know where “here” is.
18 A. Right behind him off to the side.
19 Q. You were on the passenger-side window as
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And next to Vinnie?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. What did Vinnie say to Karen Walker that you
25 were able to hear?
26 A. Vinnie told Karen Walker that the children
27 were being put in school immediately. Because Karen
28 Walker asked him, were the children going to be put 6355
1 in school. And he said yes, the next day.
2 Q. This was on the 21st of February?
3 A. Yes, which was a Friday.
4 Q. And the kids were not put in school
6 A. They weren’t put in school.
7 Q. Did you seek a tutorial for your children or
8 a tutoring program once you were back out of
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. Where did you seek to do that?
12 A. After the children — we were out, and I
13 reenrolled the children in John Burroughs. I took
14 them to a place called G — I apologize, JEI
15 Learning Center to bring them up to speed for all
16 those weeks that they had missed school.
17 Q. How did you select JEI?
18 A. I was looking, actually, for a learning
19 center somewhere in the vicinity of John Burroughs
20 so they would waste no time from attending school
21 all day and then go there. And then that’s where I
22 found it.
Zonen moved on to the subject of Janet’s introduction to Larry Feldman and Dr. Stan Katz. She claimed that she was meeting with Dr. Katz because her house was a “cuckoo house”. Seriously.
She also claimed that Gavin told her about Jackson’s abuse, and when asked to describe the discussion, she said it was like an “erupted volcano”. This is in direct contrast to both Star and Gavin’s testimonies, where they both claimed that they never spoke to anyone about the abuse until they met with Dr. Katz in May 2003. Notice how she answered “Ummm” when she was initially asked if Gavin told her about his alleged abuse, which is indicative of her thinking about what lie to say to answer the question. She also testified that she told Star to “forgive and forget”:
23 Q. Excuse me, I’m sorry.
24 At some point in time, were you introduced
25 to an attorney by the name of Larry Feldman?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Who is it who introduced you to Larry
28 Feldman? 6356
1 A. Bill Dickerman.
2 Q. Do you recall when it was you were
3 introduced to Larry Feldman?
4 A. Yes, when Michael’s people wouldn’t stop
5 following us.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike.
7 THE COURT: Stricken.
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Tell us the date, if you
9 recall, of your first meeting with Larry Feldman.
10 A. I can’t remember.
11 Q. Tell us approximately how many weeks after
12 you finally — after your children left Neverland it
13 was that you actually met with Larry Feldman, if you
15 A. No, I can’t remember.
16 Q. Whose idea was it to go to Larry Feldman?
17 A. Mr. Dickerman’s.
18 Q. After you saw Larry Feldman, did he refer
19 you to somebody else to see?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Who was that?
22 A. He referred us to see Dr. Katz.
23 Q. Is that Dr. Stan Katz?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What kind of a doctor did you understand
26 Stan Katz to be?
27 A. Something with mental.
28 Q. Psychologist or psychiatrist? 6357
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you know which one he was, psychologist
3 or psychiatrist?
4 A. No, I don’t.
5 Q. Did each of you meet with Dr. Katz?
6 A. Yes, we did.
7 Q. And by “each of you,” who are we referring
9 A. Me and my three children. Davellin, Gavin
10 and Star.
11 Q. Did you know why you were meeting with him?
12 A. Yes, because Mr. Feldman —
13 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.
14 THE COURT: After “Yes,” I’ll strike that.
15 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What was your understanding
16 of why you were meeting with Mr. — Dr. Katz?
17 A. Because basically my house was a cuckoo
18 house now.
19 Q. At the time that you went to Mr. Feldman,
20 did you have any understanding of accusations of
21 sexual abuse —
22 A. No.
23 Q. — to Gavin?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Had Gavin talked to you up to that point
26 about anything that had happened at Neverland to
28 A. Um – 6358
1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
2 THE COURT: Overruled.
3 You may answer “yes” or “no.”
4 THE WITNESS: Yes. Gavin —
5 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: No, just “yes” or “no.”
6 A. Oh, yes.
7 Q. Gavin did have a conversation with you?
8 A. No, it wasn’t a conversation. It was like
9 an erupted volcano.
10 Q. Hold on.
11 At some point in time, did you actually sit
12 down with Gavin and have a conversation with him
13 about what took place at Neverland?
14 A. No. It was always broken, always.
15 Q. At some point in time, did you sit down and
16 have a conversation with Star about what happened at
18 A. He, too, it was always broken. I would
19 always hush them up. I’d say, “Just forget.
20 Forgive, forget. Forgive, forget.”
21 Q. Did you have any belief at the time you went
22 to Mr. Feldman that either of your boys had been
24 A. No, not molested. But I was aware of
26 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike the comments.
27 THE COURT: Strike the last sentence.
28 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you go to Mr. Feldman 6359
1 because you believed your children were molested?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
3 THE COURT: Overruled.
4 You may answer.
5 THE WITNESS: My children — Gavin was like
6 an erupted volcano, all the different things.
7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.
8 THE COURT: Sustained. Stricken.
9 THE WITNESS: That’s my answer.
10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Let me withdraw the question
11 and let me ask it again.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. Why did you go to Mr. Feldman?
14 A. Because as time progressed, I was finding
15 out more and more. I — I thought it was just
17 Q. Were you concerned about the fact that your
18 child had been given alcohol?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. That was something —
21 A. That was enough for me.
22 Q. Was that something you told Mr. Feldman?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Why were you concerned about your child
25 having been given alcohol?
26 A. Because he only has one kidney —
27 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
28 THE WITNESS: — and it’s malfunctioning. 6360
1 THE COURT: Just a minute. You have to wait
2 when there’s an objection.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay.
4 THE COURT: All right. The objection is
5 overruled. And the answer was, “Because he only has
6 one kidney.” Next question.
7 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: During the course of your
8 interview with Dr. Katz, did you tell Dr. Katz that
9 you believed that your child had been molested?
10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
11 THE COURT: Overruled.
12 You may answer.
13 THE WITNESS: I don’t remember what I told
14 Mr. — Dr. Katz. But — I don’t remember, because
15 as time went by it was progressing.
16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;
17 move to strike.
18 THE COURT: “I don’t remember,” I’ll leave
19 that part in. Strike the rest of it.
20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: At the time of your meeting
21 with Dr. Katz, did you believe that your child had
22 been molested?
23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Asked and
24 answered; and leading; and foundation.
25 THE COURT: Sustained.
Janet claimed that she came to the conclusion that Gavin had been molested after she was told by police, subsequent to the “trust bond” that they formed with Gavin (her words, not mine!)
26 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you ever come to a
27 conclusion that your child had been molested?
28 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Asked and 6361
1 answered; foundation; and leading.
2 THE COURT: Overruled.
3 You may answer.
4 THE WITNESS: Yes. When I was told by the
5 D.A., police office —
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
8 THE COURT: I’ll leave the “Yes” and strike
9 after that.
10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: I just want you to tell us
11 when, not the circumstance. But when did you come
12 to the conclusion that your child had been molested?
13 A. Okay, when. I don’t remember when.
14 Q. Was it before or after your meeting with Dr.
16 A. Oh, it’s way after.
17 Q. Was it before or after your initial meeting
18 with one of the detectives from the sheriff’s
20 A. It was after the police, the police form a
21 trust bond with Gavin —
22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
24 MR. ZONEN: The question is simply when.
25 THE COURT: Just a moment. Just a moment.
26 THE WITNESS: Yes.
27 THE COURT: All right. I’ll leave the
28 answer, “It was after the police,” and strike the 6362
1 rest of that sentence. Next question.
2 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Approximately how long after
3 your initial conversation with detectives was it?
4 A. I can’t remember. But it was after the
5 police got involved.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. But I was aware of things.
8 Q. That’s all. Just —
9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike.
10 THE COURT: Stricken.
After receiving her possessions back, Janet claimed that the loveletter that Jackson had given her was missing from the clay pot that she so eloquently described earlier in her testimony. The watch and jacket that Jackson had given to Gavin were also missing:
11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: When did you finally get your
12 possessions back?
13 A. Until the police got involved. Yeah.
14 Q. Where were your possessions moved to at that
16 A. They were moved into another storage area,
17 because I — I no longer had a place now.
18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
20 THE WITNESS: I — okay.
21 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.
22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you have an opportunity
23 to go through your items after they were ultimately
25 A. Yes. With the police there.
26 Q. All right. And where was that that you went
27 through all of your items?
28 A. I immediately went to the clay pot that I 6363
1 told you where I had —
2 Q. Just tell us where it was that you looked at
3 these items. Where is the location where the items
4 were where you looked at them?
5 A. Dino’s Storage.
6 Q. Do you know where that is?
7 A. I can’t remember.
8 Q. Okay. Was it someplace in Los Angeles
9 County, to your knowledge?
10 A. Yeah. Yes.
11 Q. Now, at that location, did you go through
12 all of your —
13 A. Oh, God, no. I think it’s somewhere near,
14 like, Calabasas area. Somewhere like that.
15 Q. In the valley somewhere?
16 A. Yeah, in that area.
17 Q. San Fernando Valley?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now, at that location did you go through all
20 of your items to see what was there and what was not
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Were you able to find any of the letters
24 that Mr. Jackson had sent to Gavin?
25 A. I immediately went to the clay pot. Lifted
26 it up. Gone.
27 Q. Was everything missing from the clay pot?
28 A. Everything was missing. 6364
1 Q. Were there any other items besides letters
2 that were missing?
3 A. Yes. Pictures, and that rabbit.
4 Q. By “pictures” do you mean photographs?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And these are photographs of what?
7 A. Of Michael with the children.
8 Q. And then you said a rabbit.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You’re talking about a doll of some kind?
11 A. Yes. Yes.
12 Q. And from where did this rabbit come from?
13 A. From Michael, from Mr. Jackson.
14 Q. And what became of that?
15 A. Gone.
16 Q. Do you recall the jacket that you referred
17 to that was given to Gavin by Mr. Jackson?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. What happened to that jacket?
20 A. I turned that over to Mr. Sneddon.
21 Q. And did you identify that jacket before the
22 grand jury?
23 A. I don’t remember if I did that. I don’t
25 Q. Can you describe that jacket for us?
26 A. Yes, I can. It’s black with — Mr. Jackson
27 said it was crystals on the back.
28 Q. Something that glittered? 6365
1 A. Yes. Mr. Jackson said it was real crystals.
2 Q. Was there anything else that was given to
3 any of your children by Mr. Jackson during the time
4 that they were with him during the months of
5 February or March?
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
7 THE COURT: Sustained.
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you ever see a watch?
9 A. Yes. Mr. Jackson told Gavin that it was a
10 $75,000 watch.
11 Q. And where did you see that watch?
12 A. On his wrist. On Gavin’s wrist.
13 Q. At —
14 A. Mr. Jackson took it off of his wrist and
15 placed it onto Gavin’s wrist.
16 Q. Were you watching that happen?
17 A. I don’t think I did. I don’t think I did.
18 I just know afterwards this is what I found out.
19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
20 no foundation.
21 THE COURT: Sustained. Stricken.
22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Where did you first see that
24 A. I first seen it when — I think when Gavin
25 got off the airplane. And then the rest of the time
26 when they were at Neverland.
27 Q. Did he wear that watch while you were at
28 Neverland? 6366
1 A. Yes, he did.
2 Q. Can you describe the watch for us?
3 A. Oh, it was gold, and it had stuff that
4 looked like diamonds on the face. That’s the best I
5 can remember.
6 Q. For how long did Gavin wear that watch?
7 A. Every day until — every day. Every day, I
8 think, prior to going back to Neverland. I think
9 so. I don’t remember. I’m doing my best estimate.
10 Q. When he took the watch off, what happened to
11 the watch?
12 A. Oh, he didn’t take it off while he had it on
13 at Neverland at all.
14 Q. At some point in time did he stop wearing
15 the watch?
16 A. Yeah. When we got back, I took it off. You
17 know, “Stop wearing this ridiculous watch.”
18 Q. Okay. What did you do with the watch?
19 A. I think I had — I think I had Jay — I left
20 it at Jay’s apartment.
21 Q. And ultimately where did the watch go?
22 A. I gave it to the police.
23 Q. Mr. Sneddon?
24 A. Yes, Mr. Sneddon. The police.
25 Q. The police. Do you remember who it was you
26 gave it to?
27 A. Let me see. Okay. Yes, I did. I gave it
28 to the attorneys, because I didn’t want it in my 6367
1 house. And then —
2 Q. Which attorneys?
3 A. I gave it to Mr. Dickerman, and then we
4 ended up giving it to Mr. Feldman, and then the
5 police retrieved it from Mr. Feldman’s office,
6 the — yeah.
Next, Janet testified that she was offered a house and an apartment by Vinnie and Frank, but only if she left the country first. She claimed that they told her that she needed both a house and an apartment because she needed to be able to go back and forth between them to avoid “the killers”. This information was also “burned in her brain”!
7 Q. While you were at Neverland, did anybody
8 talk to you about finding you a place to live
9 ultimately after Brazil?
10 A. No. The — it was at Brazil.
11 Q. No, but did anybody ever talk to you about
12 getting a house for you or apartment or a condo or
13 something like that?
14 A. The condition was that we had to leave the
16 Q. I’m sorry. The question was, did somebody
17 talk to you about getting a house or an apartment at
18 some time?
19 A. Only if we left the country.
20 Q. Does that mean the answer is “yes,” somebody
21 did —
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. Now, this conversation was with whom?
24 A. With Frank and Vinnie.
25 Q. At the same time?
26 A. Yeah.
27 Q. Okay. Were both of them talking to you?
28 A. Yes. They were trying to get me to leave 6368
1 the country.
2 Q. And this was still while you were at
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What did they say specifically about getting
6 you a house or an apartment, or what —
7 A. If I left the country, I can have that.
8 Q. You could have what?
9 A. A house and an apartment to go back and
10 forth. But, no, I didn’t want to leave the country.
11 Q. I don’t understand, “a house” — I don’t
12 understand. What does that mean, “to go back and
14 A. That’s what they said. Frank and Vinnie
15 came up with different things every time. But the
16 key here, that is consistent, is that, “You got to
17 leave the country.”
18 Q. Conditioned upon going to Brazil?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What did they say specifically about a house
21 or an apartment? What did they say?
22 A. If I left the country I could have that.
23 Q. You could have what?
24 A. A house and an apartment.
25 Q. Did they say why you would need both a house
26 and an apartment?
27 A. They said something like to go back and
28 forth. This way there’s still — I have that burned 6369
1 in my brain, appeasing the killers. This way, if
2 the killers showed up at the apartment, I could go
3 to the house; from the house to the apartment.
4 Q. Did they tell you Michael Jackson would be
5 purchasing that for you or renting that for you or
6 what the arrangement would be financially?
7 A. That Mr. Jackson would do it if I left the
9 Q. Did you understand that you would actually
10 own this?
11 A. No.
12 Q. They didn’t say one way or the other
13 whether —
14 A. No, they just said as I told you.
15 Q. You didn’t ask whether this would be
16 something in your name or somebody else’s name?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Or whether you’d have to pay rent on it?
19 A. I knew I didn’t want to leave the country.
20 I don’t care what they promised me.
21 Q. Did either Frank or Vinnie make any other
22 representations to you in terms of money, or college
23 education, or anything else that they would be
24 giving you if you went to Brazil?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Did he make any representations of what they
27 would be giving to you even if you didn’t leave for
28 Brazil? 6370
1 A. No. Zero.
Zonen ended this day’s direct testimony by trying to make Janet look like an innocent victim by having her deny that she ever asked Jackson for money because it’s not her “nature”, and having her deny that she planned on filing a lawsuit against Jackson after the trial.
2 Q. During the period of time from the time that
3 you were contacted by Michael Jackson back in early
4 February of ‘03 to the time that you left Neverland
5 and your children left Neverland on around the 11th
6 of March, did you ever ask anybody from Neverland,
7 whether it was Michael Jackson or Vinnie or Frank,
8 for money?
9 A. No. Zero.
10 Q. Did you ever ask any of them for money prior
11 to that time —
12 A. No.
13 Q. — on February 4th?
14 A. That’s not my nature.
15 Q. Did either or any of them at Neverland make
16 an offer to give you money?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did you receive money from any of them?
19 A. Nope.
20 Q. And by receiving money, I mean at any time
21 since you first visited Neverland back in August of
22 2000 until you ultimately left and had no further
23 communication with them.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did you ever have a conversation with
26 anybody at Neverland, whether it was Michael Jackson
27 or Vinnie or Frank or anybody else, about the
28 subject of whether money would be given to you? 6371
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did you ever ask anybody at Neverland,
3 whether it was Michael Jackson or anybody else, to
4 support you for the rest of your life?
5 A. No.
6 MR. ZONEN: Could counsel and I approach the
7 bench briefly about the exhibit?
8 THE COURT: All right.
9 (Discussion held off the record at sidebar.)
10 THE COURT: Okay. We’re ready to go.
11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, are you
12 intending on filing a lawsuit against Michael
14 A. No.
15 Q. Are you intending on filing a lawsuit
16 against Michael Jackson on behalf of your children?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Are you intending on doing it anytime during
19 this proceeding or anytime thereafter?
20 A. No.
21 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I have no further
22 questions at this time. I do intend to play the
23 video once the particulars are worked out on it.
24 And —
25 THE COURT: All right. What we agreed to at
26 the sidebar here was the District Attorney needs to
27 prepare the three or four tapes that he was going to
28 show earlier that was compiled into one. He’s going 6372
1 to show them separately based on an earlier ruling I
2 made. And rather than have Mr. Mesereau start late
3 in the afternoon with cross-examination and then be
4 interrupted with that, we’re going to recess early.
5 (To the jury) I knew you’d be unhappy about
6 that. I’ll see you tomorrow morning at 8:30.
7 Remember the admonition.
8 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:10 p.m.)