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April 25th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Kassim Abdool, Jeff Klapakis, Craig Bonner, & Victor Alvarez, Part 2 of 4

November 28, 2013

Kassim Abdool image

The prosecution called Kassim Abdool to the stand. He was a former employee of Neverland who quit in 1994, and then sued Jackson (along with four other ex-Neverland employees) for wrongful termination and sexual harassment, and subsequently lost and was ordered by the civil court to repay Jackson millions of dollars in attorney’s fees. In 1994, he claimed that he witnessed Jackson and Jordan Chandler engaging in oral sex and fondling each other’s genitals.

Here is what the defense had to say about Abdool and the other four Neverland employees who frivously and unsuccessfully sued Jackson in the mid-90’s and lost big-time! This is an excerpt from their motion titled “SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF OPOSITION TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S MOTION FOR AMISSION OF ALLEGED PRIOR OFFENSES”:

The Abdool Plaintiffs

The defense requests that the Court take judicial notice of the file in Abdool v. Jackson, Santa Maria Superior Court, Case No. SM 89344. The plaintiffs in that case, including Adrian McManus and Ralph Chacon, who are listed as witnesses in the prosecution’s motion, and their lawyer, Michael Ring, were sanctioned jointly on numerous occasions for lying in their depositions and to the court.

The total sanctions were approximately $66,000. The sanctions were imposed for discovery violations and for forcing the defendants to prove, in open court, that the plaintiffs were lying. The sanctions were imposed because the plaintiffs had lied in their depositions and, in some instances, actually lied on the stand in open court. For instance, on one occasion, one of the plaintiffs, while on the stand, blatantly contradicted her own testimony, given earlier in the day. The judge left the bench saying he was disgusted.

The jury in the Abdool case found against the plaintiffs on all of their allegations. The jury also found in favor of the defendant, Michael Jackson, against Adrian McManus and Ralph Chacon, for stealing from Mr. Jackson. The court imposed attorney’s fees and costs of $1.4 million against the plaintiffs. The trial of these plaintiffs last 6 months and 1 day before The Honorable Judge Canter. Were these plaintiffs to be called in this case, one would assume, based on the six month duration of the Abdool trial, that the plaintiff’s testimony and the defense would take at least a month in and of itself.

Furthermore, these witnesses are not claiming to be percipient witnesses to actual sexual offenses, with the exception of Ralph Chacon.

Ralph Chacon is a liar. He lied about being given a weapons permit based on his role as a witness. He lied in deposition. He lied to reporters and he lied on the stand.

Adrian McManus had stolen from her own family members. She was sued for stealing her niece and nephew’s inheritance. She made all sorts of false and contradictory claims.

The plaintiffs were allowed to talk about the allegations in pretrial discovery, and did so. The only person having anything salacious to say was Ralph Chacon. When the case came to trial, the trial court disallowed evidence of the salacious allegations because they had nothing to do with the causes of action in the litigation. Nevertheless, these plaintiffs were thoroughly discredited, not only as to the allegations they made in court, but as to what Mr. Chacon had to say.

With regard to all of the Abdool plaintiffs, they lied about going to the media and selling them their stories, when in fact, they had an agent and had gone to the media to sell their stories. It turned out they were a bit late to take advantage of the opportunities that Blanca Francia and the Quindoys were able to cash in on. These people tried to hawk their false stories and were unsuccessful, so they filed their meritless lawsuit. They lied about meeting with the media. As if this were no enough, the stories that they told and personally edited were so fantastic and salacious, that they had denied ever saying such things, when they believed that Mr. Jackson’s counsel did not know about it. Even after the stories appeared, they denied that they had talked with the journalists, because they denied that the events in the stories occurred. In one instance, it was demonstrated that their handwritten notes were on drafts of the stories. Once again, it will be necessary to relitigate all of this.


Here is Abdool’s description of his duties and responsibilities at Neverland:





8 Q. Mr. Abdool, I think you’re going to have to


9 scoot up as close as you possibly can to the


10 microphone so everybody can hear you.


11 A. That okay.


12 Q. Sounds a little better. You have a very


13 soft voice, so try to keep it up. Thank you.


14 Mr. Abdool, you live in Lompoc; is that


15 correct?


16 A. Yes, sir.


17 Q. And you’re employed with the school


18 district?


19 A. Yes, sir.


20 Q. And did you at one time used to work at


21 Neverland Valley Ranch?


22 A. Yes, sir.


23 Q. And from what period of time did you work at


24 Neverland Valley Ranch?


25 A. .91, .92, .93.


26 Q. Do you recall when in .91 you came to work


27 there?


28 A. No. It may be about the middle of the year. 7379


1 I’m just guessing.


2 Q. And do you recall when in 1993 or .94 was it


3 that you left?


4 A. It was part of .94. In the middle of .94.


5 Q. When you worked at Neverland Valley Ranch,


6 what were your — what was your position there?


7 A. When I left or when I —


8 Q. No, during the time that you were employed


9 at Neverland Valley Ranch, what was your position at


10 the ranch? What were your job responsibilities?


11 A. To secure the ranch, to provide security for


12 Mr. Jackson.


13 Q. So you were part of his security team?


14 A. Yes, sir.


15 Q. Did you have a rank at that point in time?


16 A. I started off as a basic security guard and


17 I went up to the head of security.


18 Q. What were the range of responsibilities that


19 you had at the ranch during the time, let’s say —


20 let’s narrow it down now to 1993 and 1994, okay?


21 A. Okay.


22 Q. Were you the head of security at that point


23 in time?


24 A. Just part of .93, I think. Maybe a few


25 months.


26 Q. What were your responsibilities during .93


27 and .94?


28 A. To supervise, make sure the buildings are 7380


1 locked. Make sure whatever Mr. Jackson wants, to


2 provide for him. Provide security for the guests.


3 Sometimes they may need luggages to their units.


4 We’d help with that. Make sure no intruders come on


5 property. Those type of things.


6 Q. Now, what was the time — during .93 and


7 .94, what were the hours that you worked?


8 A. I think during most of my employment at the


9 ranch, I worked the graveyard shift. Almost for all


10 those years.


11 Q. And “graveyard shift” means — what time do


12 you come on and what time do you leave, generally?


13 A. Generally from about 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.


14 I work most of the time that shift.


15 Q. Now, during the time that you worked at


16 Neverland Valley Ranch, did you become acquainted


17 with an individual by the name of Ralph Chacon?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. In what capacity? How did you get to know


20 Mr. Chacon?


21 A. He was also a security officer at the ranch.


22 And he worked on the shift I worked on also.


23 Q. Did you know Mr. Chacon prior to the time


24 that you came to work at Neverland Valley Ranch?


25 A. No, sir.


26 Q. And since the time that you left the


27 employment of Neverland — well, let me save that


28 question for later, okay? 7381


1 Was Mr. Chacon, to your knowledge, employed


2 at the ranch during the same period of time that you


3 were employed there?


4 A. Yes. I think he started working at the


5 ranch maybe a couple of months after I started in


6 .91.


7 Q. And was he working there during .93 and .94?


8 A. Yes, sir.


9 Q. Part of .94?


10 A. Yes.

Here’s Abdool’s recollection of Jackson’s interactions with Jordan Chandler:

11 Q. During the time that you were employed in


12 security for — at Neverland Ranch, did you get to


13 know a young child by the name of Jordan?


14 A. Yes, sir.


15 Q. Did you know Jordan’s last name?


16 A. Chandler.


17 Q. And did you see the child Jordan Chandler on


18 the ranch on more than one occasion?


19 A. Yes, sir.


20 Q. And can you give us an idea approximately


21 how many times you saw him on the ranch?


22 A. He was there — he was there for many times.


23 I can’t give a number of times.


24 Q. During the time that the child Jordan


25 Chandler was on the ranch, was the defendant in this


26 case, Mr. Jackson, on the ranch?


27 A. Yes, sir.


28 Q. During the times that Mr. Jackson and the 7382


1 child Jordan Chandler were on the ranch, were the


2 Chandler parents present on all occasions?


3 A. No, sir.


4 Q. How many occasions do you believe that


5 Jordan Chandler, to your knowledge, was on the ranch


6 with Mr. Jackson only?


7 A. Only?


8 Q. Yeah.


9 A. Maybe a couple times, I think. Two, three


10 times. I’m talking about coming on the ranch with


11 Mr. Jackson alone.


12 Q. So arriving with Mr. Jackson —


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. — alone?


15 A. Yes, sir.


16 Q. During the time that you were on the ranch,


17 could you describe — well, when the child Jordan


18 Chandler was on the ranch, did you have an


19 opportunity to see him on a number of occasions?


20 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. Could you describe his general behavior


22 while he was on the ranch?


23 A. I don’t think he ever spoke to me. He just


24 kept, you know, a distance. I don’t recall ever


25 speaking to him.


26 Q. All right. Did you have an opportunity


27 to — to observe how he acted on the ranch?


28 A. Well – 7383


1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


2 THE COURT: Sustained.


3 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you have — do you have


4 carts on the ranch?


5 A. Golf carts?


6 Q. Golf carts.


7 A. Yes, sir.


8 Q. Did you have any problems with Mr. — the


9 child Chandler and the golf carts?


10 A. Yes. I remember one problem, yes.


11 Q. What was that?


12 A. I think he crashed it once.


13 Q. Were there any other occasions that you had


14 problems with Mr. Chandler, the child Chandler?


15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; asked and


16 answered.


17 THE WITNESS: No, I don’t recall —


18 THE COURT: Just a moment.


19 Overruled.


20 You may answer. Go ahead.


21 THE WITNESS: What’s the question, sir?

22 MR. SNEDDON: Let me rephrase it.


23 Q. During the time that you had an opportunity


24 to observe the child Jordan Chandler on the ranch,


25 how would you describe his behavior?


26 A. Kind of wild. Kind of wild behavior. You


27 know, driving — driving wild a little bit.


28 Q. Anything else? 7384


1 A. He would keep to himself. He would not


2 associate with the security members or talk to them.

Next, Abdool was questioned about Wade Robeson, Brett Barnes, and other young boys:

3 Q. During the time that you were employed at


4 Neverland Ranch, did you meet a child by the name of


5 Wade Robeson?


6 A. Yes, I know him.


7 Q. And during the time that you were at the


8 ranch, did the child Wade Robeson visit the ranch?


9 A. Yes, sir.


10 Q. And when he did, was Mr. Jackson on the


11 ranch?


12 A. Yes, sir.


13 Q. And with regard to Mr. — with regard to the


14 child Wade Robeson, would you describe his behavior?


15 A. Same type of behavior. You know, driving


16 around wild, but they would not have conversation


17 with us.


18 Q. With regard to — do you know a child by the


19 name of Brett Barnes?


20 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. Did the child Brett Barnes visit the ranch


22 while you were there?


23 A. Yes, sir.


24 Q. On more than one occasion?


25 A. Yes, sir.


26 Q. And was Mr. Jackson there on those


27 occasions?


28 A. I don’t recall all the occasions, but I know 7385


1 that Mr. Jackson was there when Brett Barnes was


2 there, sir.


3 Q. Do you recall whether or not Brett Barnes’


4 parents were always present when he was on the ranch


5 with Mr. Jackson?


6 A. No, I don’t recall that, sir.


7 Q. With regard to your capacity as security for


8 Mr. Jackson at the ranch, were you given


9 instructions with regard to how you were to interact


10 with the children who misbehaved on the ranch?


11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


12 THE COURT: Just a moment.


13 Overruled.


14 You may answer.


15 THE WITNESS: I don’t understand your


16 question.


17 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Were there rules that were


18 given to you as an employee at the ranch in terms of


19 what you were or were not to do when children


20 misbehaved at the ranch?


21 A. No, I don’t recall rules.


22 Q. Were you given any — can you tell us


23 whether or not you were given any instructions as to


24 what to do when somebody did something?


25 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did something wrong.


27 THE COURT: Rephrase the question.


28 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I’ll start all 7386


1 over again.


2 Q. Were there any instructions given to you


3 during the time that you worked at the ranch as to


4 what you were to do to try to control any children


5 who got out of control at the ranch?


6 A. I don’t recall instructions. I don’t recall


7 any instructions, sir.

Abdool testified that he and Ralph Chacon were working the graveyard shift one night, and they witnessed Jackson and Jordan Chandler going into the Jacuzzi, wearing nothing but swimming trunks, and afterwards he saw them going into the bathroom area. Later that night, he observed Jackson wearing only a towel around his waist, carrying Jordan Chandler on his back into the main house, from the bathroom area. Jackson allegedly locked the French doors himself, and Abdool noted that as highly unusual because it was security’s job to lock the doors behind Jackson. When he went back into the bathroom area, he claimed to have noticed that both Jackson’s and Jordan’s swimming trunks were on the floor, next to each other.

8 Q. During the time that you were at the ranch,


9 do you recall an incident that involved you and Mr.


10 Chacon with regard to some French doors being left


11 open?


12 A. Yes, sir.


13 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


14 THE COURT: Overruled.


15 You may answer — he did answer, “Yes.” Go


16 ahead.


17 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, with regard to that


18 particular night – okay? – did you see Mr. Jackson


19 that night?


20 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. Did you work the graveyard shift that night?


22 A. Yes, sir.


23 Q. Was Mr. Chacon working with you that night?


24 A. Yes, sir.


25 Q. And do you recall approximately when it was


26 you saw Mr. Jackson for the first time on that


27 particular evening?


28 A. It would have been after 10:00, 10:15 or so. 7387


1 Q. At some point that night did you see Mr.


2 Jackson go to the Jacuzzi?


3 A. Yes, sir.


4 Q. And where is the Jacuzzi located?


5 A. The Jacuzzi’s located outside the house, in


6 the back of the house, near the swimming pool area.


7 There’s a barbeque area, and a Jacuzzi and a


8 swimming pool area, and an arcade room on the other


9 side.


10 Q. And when you saw Mr. Jackson going to the


11 Jacuzzi area, was he alone or was he with somebody?


12 A. No, he was with the boy.


13 Q. What boy?


14 A. Jordie.


15 Q. And could you see how they were dressed?


16 A. Yes, sir.


17 Q. How were they dressed?


18 A. They were dressed with bathing — you know,


19 bathing pants. But they were bare back. And they


20 had like bathing trunks. Pants that reached just


21 above the knee.


22 Q. That went down to the knee?


23 A. Yeah, like loose-fitting pants.


24 Q. Do you recall where you were at the time


25 that you saw Mr. Jackson and the child Jordan going


26 towards the Jacuzzi?


27 A. I was —


28 Q. Where were you? 7388


1 A. I was near the office area, somewhere closer


2 to the back of the house.


3 Q. Now, at some point — let me ask you this:


4 At the time that you saw Mr. Jackson and the child


5 Jordan walking towards the Jacuzzi, did you know


6 where Ralph Chacon was situated or positioned?


7 A. I — I had an idea where he was, but he was


8 more in the barbeque area, I think.


9 Q. Was that his ordinary assignment?


10 A. Yeah. Normally they would go in that back


11 area where no one could pretty much see them.


12 Q. What were the lighting conditions like at


13 this particular point in time at night out around


14 the swimming pool and the Jacuzzi?


15 A. It — you know, like around the pool, you


16 have these pool lights. Around the Jacuzzi, you


17 have the Jacuzzi lights, and maybe some small lights


18 in the flowers. I would say it would be like dim


19 lighting.


20 Q. Now, at some point later, did you hear Mr.


21 Jackson say something to someone?


22 A. Yes. Mr. Jackson called me.


23 Q. And did you respond to him?


24 A. Yes, sir.


25 Q. As a result of what Mr. Jackson told you,


26 did you do something?


27 A. Yes, sir.


28 Q. What did you do? 7389


1 A. I went to the chef, his name is Bucky Black.


2 Bucky.


3 Q. Okay.


4 A. I went to the chef. He was still on


5 property that night, and I asked him to get two


6 sodas for Mr. Jackson.


7 Q. All right. Did you take the sodas to Mr.


8 Jackson or —


9 A. No, I did not take them.


10 Q. Now, later, when was the next time that you


11 saw Mr. Jackson?


12 A. I saw Mr. Jackson going to the bathroom


13 area.


14 Q. What bathroom area are you talking about?


15 A. It’s — it’s a bathroom maybe that’s kind of


16 joined — you know, joined onto the arcade room.


17 Q. And when he was going to the bathroom area,


18 was he alone or was he with someone?


19 A. I recollect he was with Jordie.


20 Q. And do you recall how they were dressed?


21 A. No. I don’t recall exactly how they were


22 dressed. My best recollection, they were in bathing

23 trunks, but to be specific, no.


24 Q. And did you see them actually go into the


25 rest room area or were they just walking towards


26 that area?


27 A. I recall they were walking towards the rest


28 room area. 7390


1 Q. Now, at some point in time, did you see Mr.


2 Jackson again later that evening?


3 A. Yes, sir.


4 Q. And where was he when you saw him?


5 A. He was near the back door of the main house.


6 About — about maybe five, eight yards or so from


7 the back door.


8 Q. And was he alone or was he with somebody?


9 A. He was with Jordie.


10 Q. And where was Mr. Jackson in relationship to


11 Jordie? Where was Jordan?


12 A. He was like piggybacking. You know,


13 piggyback, when you put someone on your back.


14 Q. Who was on whose back?


15 A. Jordie was on Mr. Jackson’s back.


16 Q. Do you recall what Mr. Jackson was wearing,


17 if anything?


18 A. He was wearing — he was bare back and he


19 had a towel around his waist.


20 Q. And how about the child?


21 A. The child had like a towel-like robe, you


22 know, like a bathrobe. Like, you know, it’s towel


23 material. It was thrown over him, over the child.


24 Q. And where were they when you first saw them?


25 A. I’d say five, eight yards from the back


26 door.


27 Q. Okay. And did you see where they went?


28 A. They went into the house. 7391

1 Q. And did you see or hear anything at that


2 point in time?


3 A. Yes, sir.


4 Q. What?


5 A. I heard the two locks on the back door, the


6 screen door and the back door lock. You know,


7 “clack,” when someone close it.


8 Q. Now, was that — anything unusual about


9 that?


10 A. Yes, sir.


11 Q. What?


12 A. I never recall Mr. Jackson locking the


13 house. We normally go and lock the house. We go


14 and lock the theater, lock the game room when he


15 goes to bed.


16 Q. So that’s your responsibility?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. And you’re familiar with how that door


19 locks?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. And that there’s a double — that there’s a


22 double lock there to secure it?


23 A. It’s not a double — from my — from what I


24 remember, it was two doors, like a screen door and a


25 solid door. And the two doors — I heard the two


26 doors, you know, lock.


27 Q. So it’s not a double door — double lock on


28 one door. It’s two doors that have separate locks, 7392


1 as you recall?


2 A. I don’t know it had a double lock. I can’t


3 remember. But I remember it was two doors. That’s


4 my recollection.


5 Q. All right. And each had a lock?


6 A. Yeah.


7 Q. Okay. Now, what I’d like to know is, from


8 the point that you saw Mr. Jackson —


9 A. Yes, sir.


10 Q. — walking towards the bathroom area that’s


11 attached to the arcade – okay? – with Jordan, to the


12 time that you saw him later with Jordan on his back,


13 just before he entered the door to the house –


14 okay? – how much time had elapsed, approximately?


15 A. I would say maybe half an hour or so. Half


16 an hour. That’s an average. Could be a little bit


17 more. But I would say half an hour.


18 Q. Now, after you saw Mr. Jackson and the child


19 enter the house, and the door was — the doors were


20 locked – okay? – did you have an occasion where you


21 went to the rest room area that you had — that’s


22 attached to the arcade?


23 A. Yes, sir.


24 Q. And why did you go there?


25 A. I was securing the arcade room and the rest


26 room area, locking them up.


27 Q. And did you actually physically go into the


28 rest room? 7393


1 A. Yes, sir.


2 Q. And when you went into the rest room, what


3 did you see?


4 A. The lights were on, as far as I recollect.


5 Q. Okay.


6 A. And it’s — the ground is like — I don’t


7 think it’s like concrete. It’s like cobblestone,


8 you know, the blue cobblestone.


9 Q. Okay.


10 A. That’s my recollection.


11 And the ground was wet, and there were two


12 bathing pants on the ground close to each other.


13 Q. Now, were these the same trunks that you had


14 seen Mr. Jackson and the child Jordan Chandler


15 wearing?


16 A. Yes. It seemed to be the same trunks.


17 Q. And could you explain to the jury, where


18 were the trunks in relationship to each other?


19 A. The trunks were like maybe about this far


20 apart.


21 Q. You’re indicating about —


22 A. About three —


23 Q. — a foot and a half, three feet?


24 A. They were this far apart. Two feet apart.


25 Two, three feet. And they were near to — closer to


26 the door area when you walk in.


27 Q. Close to the front door, the entrance door?


28 A. Yeah. That’s what I recollect, yeah. 7394


1 Q. Did you notice anything with regard to the


2 floor?


3 A. Yeah, the floor was wet.

Zonen pivoted back to the French doors, and the fact that Jackson had locked them. Abdool testified that he ordered Ralph Chacon to go inside to secure the doors, but he refused. The insinuation here by both Abdool and the prosecution is that Chacon didn’t want to enter the main house because he didn’t want to possibly stumble upon Jackson and Jordan engaging in sexual behavior:

4 Q. Now, I think in the beginning or earlier on


5 in your testimony, you indicated that there was an


6 incident about the French doors being unlocked –


7 okay? – that particular evening where there was some


8 French doors or some big doors that were unlocked?


9 A. Yeah, there were some doors unlocked in the


10 house.


11 Q. Was this, again, part of your security


12 routine, to check —


13 A. Check and secure, yes.


14 Q. Where are these doors located in terms of,


15 if you were to walk through these doors, what room


16 in the house would you be in?


17 A. If you walk — if you were to walk through


18 the ones that were open?


19 Q. Yes, sir.


20 A. You would come into a big living room area,


21 and then there’s a little corridor, and then Mr.


22 Jackson’s bedroom is right there.


23 Q. And with regard to these particular doors,


24 how — could you describe them to the jury?


25 A. They’re like — you know, like tall doors.


26 Not regular – what would I say? – rectangular doors.


27 They were like tall doors, like ten feet tall with


28 an archway. 7395


1 Q. Okay.


2 A. Huge doors. And they were — so they had


3 like bolts, you know, big bolts. I don’t recall


4 them having locks, these doors —


5 Q. Okay.


6 A. — like the other doors that I found


7 unlocked. And so you would probably have to climb


8 up and, you know, bolt these heavy copper bolts into


9 the frame, and to bolt the bottom. So each door —


10 if you have two doors opening like that, each door


11 would have two bolts. One on top, one below.


12 Q. So you’d have to go inside the house to


13 actually secure the house?


14 A. Yes, you have to go inside.


15 Q. And then you have to walk through of the


16 house to get out of the house?


17 A. You have to walk through the house, yes.


18 Q. Was Mr. Chacon with you when you observed


19 these to doors to be unlatched?


20 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. And did you give Mr. Chacon some


22 instructions with regard to what you wanted him to


23 do with these doors?


24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. What was that?


26 A. I told him that we were going inside to


27 secure the doors. We need to go in and lock them.


28 Q. And did he do that? 7396


1 A. No, sir.


2 Q. Did you ask him on more than one occasion to


3 do it?


4 A. I think a couple times, from what I


5 remember, yeah.


6 Q. Did he say why he wouldn’t do it?


7 A. He said he’s not going in the house.


8 Q. Was that unusual for him to disobey an order


9 from you?


10 A. Yeah. Yes, sir.


11 Q. Do you recall any other occasion where he


12 ever did that?


13 A. No.


14 Q. Now, with regard to the incident that you’ve


15 just described for the ladies and gentlemen –


16 okay? – the one with Jordan, the child Jordan


17 Chandler, and the Jacuzzi and going into the arcade


18 rest room – okay? —


19 A. Okay.


20 Q. — do you have an idea of approximately when


21 that occurred?


22 A. That would have been somewhere in the middle


23 of .93 or so.


24 Q. Was Mr. Jackson, to your knowledge, just


25 returning from some trip?


26 A. Oh, yeah, he had returned from a trip


27 overseas.


28 Q. Do you know where? 7397


1 A. No. He was on a tour, I guess.


2 Q. Where?


3 A. He was singing overseas and he came back.


4 He was over there for a long time.


5 Q. Okay. Now, on the ranch during the time


6 1993 – okay? —


7 A. Okay.


8 Q. — was there a thing called a Peter Pan


9 display?


10 A. Yes, sir.


11 Q. And where was the Peter Pan — I can’t even


12 say it. Where was the Peter Pan display located?


13 A. It was in the back of the house outside Mr.


14 Jackson’s office. He had an office in the back of


15 the house.


16 Q. Okay.


17 A. You know, a — how would I describe — you


18 have the main house. You have a breezeway.


19 Q. Okay.


20 A. You have Mr. Jackson’s office there.


21 And then on the other side, you have the


22 arcade room, the swimming pool, the Jacuzzi, the


23 barbeque area.


24 So the display, I don’t recall if it was


25 inside of the window or outside of the window, you


26 know, but it was like on a short — like a — when


27 you look in the window, it was like a lighting


28 display. But it’s been so long, I can’t recall if 7398


1 it was inside of — inside of the office or outside


2 of the office.

Next, Abdool testified about yet another incident of alleged abuse that he claimed to have witnessed. Jackson and Jordan had just returned from the theater to the back of the main house, and Abdool witnessed Jackson give Jordan a kiss on his cheek. Oh, the horror of it all!

3 Q. Now, on an occasion while you were working


4 at Neverland Valley Ranch, did you see an incident


5 occur involving the defendant Michael Jackson and


6 the child Jordan Chandler?


7 A. Yes, sir.


8 Q. And was this incident before or after the


9 incident that you’ve described or the occasion which


10 you described finding the swimming trunks basically


11 next to each other in the rest room?


12 A. I don’t recall, sir. I don’t recall if it


13 was before or after.


14 Q. All right. Now, on that particular day or


15 on that particular occasion, did you see Mr. Jackson


16 and the child Jordan Chandler together before you


17 saw them at the display?


18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


19 THE COURT: Overruled.


20 You may answer.


21 THE WITNESS: I don’t recall.


22 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Where were —


23 A. Are you talking on this particular evening?


24 Q. Yes.


25 A. I don’t recall if I saw them before I saw


26 them at that time.


27 Q. Okay. And so, then, what would have been


28 the first time you saw them? 7399


1 A. It probably would have been when I came onto


2 the night shift, so I would guess approximately


3 after 10:00. 11:00, 12:00.


4 Q. All right.


5 A. It was pretty late in the night.


6 Q. And when you saw them at the Peter — did


7 you see them at the Peter Pan display?


8 A. Yes, sir.


9 Q. Now, prior to them being at the Peter Pan


10 display, did you see where they came from?


11 A. Okay. Yes.


12 Q. Where did they come from?


13 A. They had come down from the hill area,


14 probably from where the theater was, and they drove


15 down a small hill and drove in the back of the


16 house. The back of the security area there’s a


17 garage, and then swung around, and that’s where the


18 Peter Pan display is. So they drove in the back of


19 the house.


20 Q. You say they “drove.” What were they


21 driving?


22 A. As far as I remember, it was a small golf


23 cart.


24 Q. And were they both in the same cart or in


25 different carts?


26 A. My recollection, they were in the same cart.


27 Q. Now, at the time that you saw them in front


28 of the Peter Pan display, could you tell us what 7400


1 you observed?


2 First of all, let me ask you this: Let’s —


3 where was the child Jordan Chandler in relationship


4 to Michael Jackson? Where were they positioned?


5 A. Jordan was standing in front of Mr. Jackson,


6 and Mr. Jackson was standing behind him. You know,


7 like if I’m standing here and someone is standing


8 here, but we are both facing the same direction.


9 They were looking at the — at the display.


10 Q. And what did you observe about Mr. Jackson’s


11 conduct in relationship to the child at that time?


12 A. When I turned — you know, I turned to walk


13 away. I went to ask him a question. When I turned


14 to walk away, and on the side, I saw Mr. Jackson


15 giving him a little kiss on the side here, and he


16 was kind of like hugging him. I just saw that maybe


17 a couple seconds.


18 Q. And then you kept going?


19 A. Yeah, I kept going.


20 Q. You didn’t watch what happened after that?


21 A. No.


22 Q. Now, was Mr. Chacon working that night?


23 A. Yes, sir.

Next, Abdool was questioned about his grand jury testimony in May 1994. He testified that Jackson’s attorneys Steve Cochran and Robert Sanger offered to represent him before he testified, but he declined. Right before his testimony, he received a one thousand dollar a month raise, at his request, but after his testimony he allegedly received death threats from anonymous strangers who called his home, and as a result he requested that he and his family be placed into the witness protection program.

24 Q. Now, in May of 1994, you were subpoenaed to


25 appear before the Los Angeles grand jury?


26 A. Yeah, okay. I think that’s the time.


27 Q. You recall going down to Los Angeles?


28 A. Yes, sir. 7401


1 Q. And you recall testifying in front of the


2 grand jury?


3 A. Yes, sir.


4 Q. You recall receiving a subpoena before you


5 were to go down there?


6 A. Yes, sir.


7 Q. And what was your attitude towards receiving


8 the subpoena to go to the grand jury?


9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague; relevance.


10 MR. SNEDDON: Goes to his bias, Your Honor,


11 his motive for testifying.


12 THE COURT: Overruled.


13 You may answer.


14 THE WITNESS: You want me to answer?


15 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Yes.


16 A. I didn’t want to go.


17 Q. Now, prior to going down to Los Angeles to


18 testify, did you have a meeting with attorneys who


19 represented Mr. Jackson?


20 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. And who were those attorneys?


22 A. It was Mr. Steve Cochran, Mr. Jackson’s


23 attorney. It was also a private investigator.


24 Q. And do you recall where that meeting


25 occurred?


26 A. Yes, sir.

27 Q. Where was that?


28 A. Mr. Bob Sanger’s office in Santa Barbara. 7402


1 Q. And at the time that you were at that


2 meeting, did the attorneys for Mr. Jackson offer you


3 certain services?


4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Misstates the


5 evidence. One attorney was mentioned.


6 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. I’ll rephrase it if


7 that’s the problem.


8 Q. At the time that you met at Mr. Sanger’s


9 office with the private investigator and Mr. Steve


10 Cochran, did he offer you services?


11 A. I don’t recall. But he gave me some advice.


12 Q. Well, did you have a lawyer representing you


13 at that time?


14 A. No, sir.


15 Q. Did they offer to represent you?


16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


17 THE COURT: Overruled.


18 You may answer.


19 THE WITNESS: He offered to be down with the


20 grand jury if we needed advice, attorney.


21 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Can you tell us —


22 A. I think — I vaguely remember now that — I


23 think he remembered — he offered, you know, to


24 represent us, represent me.


25 Q. Do you recall whether or not you were ever


26 offered any transportation down there?


27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


28 THE COURT: Overruled. 7403


1 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.


2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Were you?


3 A. Yes, sir.


4 Q. Did you ever use Mr. Steve Cochran’s


5 services?


6 A. No, sir.


7 Q. Were you asked what you were going to say in


8 front of the grand jury by Mr. Cochran?


9 A. Yes, sir.


10 Q. Did you tell them?


11 A. I don’t recall telling him, sir.


12 Q. Did you tell them what you were going to do?


13 A. I told him I was going to say what I know.


14 I speak the truth.


15 Q. Now, between the time that you received the


16 subpoena to appear before the Los Angeles County


17 Grand Jury and the time that you actually testified


18 at the Los Angeles — before the Los Angeles County


19 Grand Jury, did you receive a raise?


20 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. And how much of a raise did you receive?


22 A. About a thousand dollars a month more. Or


23 maybe a little bit more than that.


24 Q. Was this a proposal that you had made to


25 them? Had you requested the raise?


26 A. Yes, sir.


27 Q. And how long prior to the time that you went


28 down to Los Angeles to testify had you requested 7404


1 that raise?


2 A. A few months. Couple months, maybe. I’m


3 guessing. I — it was before.


4 Q. Now, after you testified in front of the Los


5 Angeles County Grand Jury, did you receive any


6 threats?


7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;


8 foundation.


9 THE COURT: Overruled.


10 You may answer.


11 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.


12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: In what fashion? In what


13 form did you receive threats?


14 Mr. Abdool, there’s some water up there if


15 you’d like some water. Take your time.


16 A. Yes, sir.


17 Q. What were the nature — describe what


18 threats you received.


19 A. People would call at home and threaten to


20 kill me and my family. A lot of phone calls coming


21 to the house.


22 Q. Was there always somebody on the other end


23 of the line when you picked the phone up?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


25 THE WITNESS: They would stay on the line


26 sometimes.


27 THE COURT: Overruled.


28 You may answer. 7405


1 THE WITNESS: They would stay on the line


2 sometimes, yes. Just stay on the line.


3 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you report these


4 threats to law enforcement at the time that they


5 occurred?


6 A. Yes, sir.


7 Q. Mr. Abdool, do you know what the witness


8 protection program is?


9 A. I know — I heard about it. I don’t know


10 exactly what it entails.


11 Q. Did you ever request to be — for you and


12 your family to be put in the witness protection


13 program?


14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading; move to


15 strike.


16 THE COURT: Stricken. It’s leading.


17 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: At any time did you ever


18 request of law enforcement protection?


19 MR. MESEREAU: Same objection.


20 THE COURT: Overruled.


21 You may answer.


22 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.


23 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And what did you request?


24 A. I requested to be put in that program, the


25 witness protection program.

Abdool next testified about the Office of Special Services, which was a group of armed security personnel that was hired in 1993, and allegedly harassed and intimidated the Neverland employees who testified against Jackson in the grand jury proceedings.

26 Q. Now, with regard to the — with regard to


27 the Neverland Valley Ranch, was there a change in


28 terms of additional security people who were brought 7406


1 onto the ranch during the time that Mr. Jackson was


2 under investigation back in 1993?


3 A. There was not a change. There was addition,


4 some more people came on.


5 Q. And did you folks on the ranch have a name


6 for those people, or was there a name that was


7 associated with them?


8 A. Yes, sir.


9 Q. What was that?


10 A. The OSS, Office of Special Services.


11 Q. Were they armed?


12 A. Yes, sir.


13 Q. Were you armed?


14 A. No, sir.


15 Q. The regular security staff was not?


16 A. No, sir.


17 Q. How would you describe the atmosphere at the


18 ranch with these people who are armed on the ranch?


19 A. It was very tense. I would say in the


20 beginning — you know, they were big people, and


21 they were armed. And I’ve seen them drink on


22 property, so you’d be concerned about your security


23 on the ranch.


24 I also heard them make threats to people on


25 the ranch.


26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.


27 MR. SNEDDON: Well, that was going to be my


28 next question. 7407


1 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.


2 THE COURT: Stricken. Next question.


3 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you at any time ever


4 hear them make threats to people on the ranch?


5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay; move to


6 strike.


7 THE COURT: Overruled.


8 You may answer.


9 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.


10 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And did they do that to you


11 also?


12 A. Not directly, no.


13 Q. Okay. Did they do it indirectly or what you


14 thought was indirectly?


15 A. Yes, sir.


16 Q. In what fashion?


17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.


18 MR. SNEDDON: Oops. Sorry. I’ll wait.


19 THE COURT: You said, “Objection.” I didn’t


20 hear your —


21 MR. MESEREAU: Leading and calls for


22 speculation.


23 THE COURT: Sustained.


24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: In what fashion?


25 MR. MESEREAU: Same objection.


26 THE COURT: That was your last question.


27 MR. SNEDDON: That —


28 THE COURT: Really, you have to take the 7408


1 last two questions to understand my ruling that you

2 were leading.


3 MR. SNEDDON: I thought the first one was,


4 but I didn’t think the second would be, “In what


5 fashion?” But I’ll start over, Judge. That’s no


6 problem.


7 Q. You indicated that you thought that you had


8 been intimidated indirectly. Could you describe for


9 the jury in what fashion that occurred?


10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Misstates the


11 evidence, leading, and foundation, and calls for


12 speculation.


13 THE COURT: I think what I’m asking you to do


14 is to go back and form a foundation for the question


15 you’re asking before you ask in what fashion.


16 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.


17 Q. Were you ever indirectly intimidated on the


18 ranch?


19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;


20 foundation.


21 THE COURT: Overruled.


22 You may answer.


23 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: You may answer. Were you


24 ever indirectly intimidated on the ranch?


25 A. Yes, sir.


26 Q. And do you remember who the person or


27 persons were that were involved?


28 A. Yes, sir. 7409


1 Q. Who were they?


2 A. On couple occasions it was one person, and


3 at other times it would be two, three of them, of


4 the OSS officers.


5 Q. Could you describe in what manner you were


6 indirectly intimidated by these people?


7 A. Are you saying things that they would say?


8 Q. You tell us. What was the nature of it?


9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation and


10 hearsay.


11 THE COURT: Overruled.


12 You may answer.


13 THE WITNESS: I remember one of them, his


14 name was Van Norman. He would say how they would


15 beat people when they were overseas. You know, when


16 they were on tour with Mr. Jackson, how they would


17 beat people, and he knew a hit man in Europe.


18 And I remember once there was a fan at the


19 front gate and he came down and put his gun and


20 pointed it at her head. She was outside the gate.


21 And also —


22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; narrative.


23 THE COURT: Sustained.


24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Was there any other


25 indirect incidents directed directly at you?


26 A. Yes, sir.


27 Q. All right. What was that?


28 A. After I testified at the grand jury, when 7410


1 I’m sitting in my office, they would just pass


2 outside my office and just stare at me. They would


3 not come in and talk to me. They would just walk


4 past outside the door.


5 Q. Are there occasions they displayed their


6 firearms to you?


7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


8 THE COURT: Sustained.

Sneddon moved on to the Neverland Five’s lawsuit against Jackson. Abdool admitted that he sold stories to the tabloids in order to pay his legal fees for his civil suit against Jackson. After this line of questioning, Sneddon ended his direct examination.  

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Let’s move on to another


10 subject, if we can.


11 Were you involved in a civil lawsuit against


12 Mr. Jackson?


13 A. Yes, sir.


14 Q. And do you recall approximately when that


15 lawsuit was filed?


16 A. .95, .96. Something around there.


17 Q. So this was at least a couple of years after


18 your testimony, or at least one year after your


19 testimony before the Los Angeles County Grand Jury?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. During the course of the time that you were


22 involved in that lawsuit, did you give a statement


23 to the media?


24 A. Yes, sir.


25 Q. And describe how that came about.


26 A. I think it was in the attorney’s office.


27 Q. The attorney?


28 A. Our attorney’s office, yes. 7411


1 Q. Who’s that?


2 A. Mr. Ring.


3 Q. Okay. And that’s where the interview


4 occurred?


5 A. Yes, sir.


6 Q. And was it your idea to have the interview?


7 A. No, I don’t think so. I don’t recall that.


8 Q. Did you understand that as a result of the


9 interview, that someone was going to pay someone


10 some money?


11 A. Yes, sir.


12 Q. Did you receive any of the money?


13 A. No, sir.


14 Q. Did you understand how that money was going


15 to be used?


16 A. Yes, sir.


17 Q. For what purpose?


18 A. To carry on the civil case.


19 Q. Against Mr. Jackson?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. And do you know who it was that set up that


22 interview?


23 A. No, I don’t recall.


24 Q. Now, one last question. Between the time


25 that you received your subpoena to appear before the


26 Los Angeles County Grand Jury – okay? —


27 A. Okay.


28 Q. — and — let me go back and start over 7412


1 again, okay?


2 You received a subpoena to appear before the


3 Los Angeles County Grand Jury, correct?


4 A. Yes, sir.


5 Q. Now, between the time that you received that


6 subpoena and the time that you actually appeared


7 before the grand jury to testify, okay?


8 A. Okay.


9 Q. We’re talking about that time frame.


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Chacon,


12 Ralph Chacon, about what he saw the night that you


13 found the swimming trunks side by side in the rest


14 room?


15 A. Yes, sir.


16 Q. And did he tell you what he saw?


17 A. Yes, sir.


18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


19 MR. SNEDDON: I haven’t asked that yet.


20 I’m sorry, Your Honor.


21 THE COURT: Overruled.


22 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. No further questions.


23 THE COURT: Cross-examine?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor.

To be continued:

3 Comments leave one →
  1. Nan permalink
    November 29, 2013 11:36 pm

    I guess I have to ask the obvious question..If he had claimed to see some kind of sex act, in 93, and he is being brought in in 2005 for 1108, why wasnt he specifically asked about that by Sneddon, or was he just brought in as a prelude to Ralph Chacons testimony, ..
    All I get out of this , is s alot of filler regarding security people around Jackson at times.
    The “child Jordan ” kept his distance form the security people .
    Why would he be interacting with the security people ? he is a guest.
    I dont remember hearing anything about Elizabeth Taylor interacting with them either, or June Chandler , …any of the other guests …What is this supposed to mean to the jury?
    He was there without his family , supposedly 2 or 3 times.
    Was something supposed to have happened within those two or three times and several people in his staff , were just in the right place at the right time , to catch something,and yet, not intervene or go to the police?
    Even given the character of some of these people, not snap a picture or record a conversation., if they had some kind of suspicions.

    Jackson asked him to get them a coke from the chef..Nothing sinister there ..
    Supposedly they took a jacuzzi with swim trunks on and then went in the restroom and showered off the chlorine, Im assuming , changed into other clothes , as people do..
    The fact that clothes are tossed on the floor doesnt mean anything, same as Wades clothes in the bathroom in the main house.
    This doesnt indicate people were showering or removing clothes at the same time , in the same vicinity…
    People who have maid service , tend to leave that kind of thing to the maid., or hired help..

    And to have two people admiring a lit up ornament and given a friendly embrace and a short peck, seems more parental , than anything else, even in this direct testimony.
    So if he was brought in because people who only supposedly witnessed inappropriate behavior , were supposed to come in , isnt this somewhat of an admission by the prosecutors ,that was said in 93 wasnt actually seem by this guy and they knew it before they put him on the stand??
    Or was he brought in to show a pattern of kids leaving their dirty clothes on the floor , which is why wade robson was mentioned..
    I wonder if anyone will ask any of these people , if they do that in their own home.
    I spent years picking up dirty clothes( my own childs as well as any kid visiting, without their own parent, for the day or overnight), found all over the house when kids would come visit at our home or the beach., because I didnt have a maid..if I did, I would have left them on the floor , to do their job.
    This all seems ridiculous to me


  1. Ralph Chacon, Kassim Abdool und Adrian McManus | all4michael
  2. April 25th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Kassim Abdool, Jeff Klapakis, Craig Bonner, & Victor Alvarez, Part 1 of 4 | Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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