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April 25th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Kassim Abdool, Jeff Klapakis, Craig Bonner, Victor Alvarez, Part 3 of 4

December 1, 2013

After having to patiently and quietly sit and listen to Abdool’s nonsense, I’m sure that Mesereau was giddy with excitement to demolish his lies under cross examination! His first order of business was to clarify Abdool’s assertion that he was offered legal representation from Jackson’s attorneys Steve Cochran and Bob Sanger. The insinuation proffered by Abdool was that they were trying to silence him because they were afraid of what he might say to the grand jury.

Abdool testified that he had 3 meetings with Cochran prior to his grand jury testimony, and he “couldn’t recall” if he spoke about what he observed at Neverland. He didn’t recall signing a sworn statement on January 13th, 1994 in which he stated that he had never seen Jackson touch any child in a sexual manner, and he would leave his own two children with Jackson, until Mesereau handed it to him to refresh his recollection. Typical.

26 CROSS-EXAMINATION

 

27 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

28 Q. Good morning, Mr. Abdool. 7413

 

1 A. Good morning, sir.

 

2 Q. My name is Thomas Mesereau. I speak for Mr.

 

3 Jackson.

 

4 A. Okay.

 

5 Q. If anything I ask you is unclear, if you

 

6 don’t understand it, please don’t answer and just

 

7 ask me, and I’ll try and rephrase it, okay?

 

8 A. Okay.

 

9 Q. Now, you told the prosecutor that on one

 

10 occasion you met at Mr. Sanger’s office in Santa

 

11 Barbara, correct?

 

12 A. Yes, sir.

 

13 Q. And you told the prosecutor that present

 

14 were Attorney Steve Cochran, correct?

 

15 A. Yes, sir.

 

16 Q. And an investigator, right?

 

17 A. Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. And you told the prosecutor that in response

 

19 to questions asked of you by Mr. Cochran and the

 

20 investigator, you said you would tell the truth,

 

21 correct?

 

22 A. Yes, sir.

 

23 Q. In your discussions with them, you told the

 

24 truth, correct?

 

25 A. I don’t recall having discussions with them.

 

26 Q. Well, you met at the office, true?

 

27 A. Yes, sir.

 

28 Q. Approximately how long was the meeting? 7414

 

1 A. There were two meetings that day.

 

2 Q. Do you know when these meetings took place?

 

3 A. A date are you talking about? I don’t

 

4 recall the date.

 

5 Q. Okay. Do you recall approximately when

 

6 those meetings took place?

 

7 A. It was just within a week before going to

 

8 the grand jury.

 

9 Q. And do you know approximately when you went

 

10 to the grand jury?

 

11 A. It was a Monday.

 

12 Q. Was it in 1993, do you think?

 

13 A. .90 — early .94 maybe.

 

14 Q. Would it be approximately May of 1994, do

 

15 you think?

 

16 A. Okay.

 

17 Q. And you met with Mr. Cochran and the

 

18 investigator at some point before you testified

 

19 before the Los Angeles County Grand Jury in May of

 

20 1994, right?

 

21 A. Yes, sir.

 

22 Q. How many meetings did you have with any

 

23 representatives of Mr. Jackson before you testified

 

24 before the Los Angeles County Grand Jury in May of

 

25 1994?

 

26 A. Two meetings.

 

27 Q. Okay.

 

28 A. Three. Three meetings. 7415

 

1 Q. And you told the truth —

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. — in all of your discussions at those

 

4 meetings, correct?

 

5 A. Yes, sir.

 

6 Q. You told the truth about what you had

 

7 observed at Neverland, right?

 

8 A. Yes, sir.

 

9 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object, Your

 

10 Honor. Assumes facts not in evidence that he said

 

11 anything to them.

 

12 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike.

 

14 THE COURT: Stricken.

 

15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In any of those three

 

16 meetings, did you utter a word?

 

17 MR. SNEDDON: That’s vague.

 

18 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

19 MR. SNEDDON: Object.

 

20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In any of those three

 

21 meetings, did you speak?

 

22 A. Yes, sir.

 

23 Q. Did you speak about what you had observed at

 

24 Neverland?

 

25 A. I don’t recall speaking about what I

 

26 observed.

 

27 Q. Do you recall speaking about Mr. Jackson in

 

28 those meetings? 7416

 

1 A. No.

 

2 Q. Do you recall speaking about your employment

 

3 at Neverland?

 

4 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

5 Q. Do you recall speaking about your background

 

6 before you ever worked at Neverland?

 

7 A. I don’t recall. I may have. I don’t

 

8 recall.

 

9 Q. Do you remember signing a statement, Mr.

 

10 Abdool, in one of those meetings?

 

11 A. No, I don’t recall that.

 

12 Q. Do you recall signing a statement on January

 

13 13th, 1994?

 

14 A. No, sir.

 

15 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show

 

16 you —

 

17 A. Sure.

 

18 Q. — a statement?

 

19 May I approach, Your Honor?

 

20 THE COURT: Yes.

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: Can I see it first, Counsel?

 

22 Okay. Thank you.

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, it’s a two-page

 

24 statement. Could I request that the witness just

 

25 read it to himself?

 

26 THE COURT: Yes.

 

27 THE WITNESS: Yeah, okay.

 

28 MR. MESEREAU: There’s another page, too. 7417

 

1 THE WITNESS: Yes.

 

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Abdool, have you had a

 

3 chance to look at and read that statement?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what

 

6 you signed?

 

7 A. Yes, sir.

 

8 Q. And that is your signature on this

 

9 statement, correct?

 

10 A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

 

11 Q. In fact, in the beginning of the statement,

 

12 you corrected the spelling of your last name in your

 

13 own handwriting, correct?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. You said you’d worked at Neverland Ranch

 

16 since June of 1991, correct?

 

17 A. Okay.

 

18 Q. Is that approximately when you started work?

 

19 A. Yes, sir.

 

20 Q. You said during your employment at the

 

21 ranch, you worked in the security department and

 

22 that you were currently working as a shift

 

23 supervisor, right?

 

24 A. Yes.

 

25 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

26 object to the use of the reading of the statement

 

27 into the record. It’s hearsay and it’s not used to

 

28 refresh his recollection. 7418

 

1 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember signing a

 

3 statement?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 Q. Do you remember what you said in the

 

6 statement?

 

7 MR. SNEDDON: Well, vague as to — he stated

 

8 it’s two pages long, so it’s —

 

9 THE COURT: Do you mean outside of his having

 

10 just read it now, or what?

 

11 MR. MESEREAU: Yes. Well —

 

12 THE COURT: You gave it to him to refresh

 

13 his memory.

 

14 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, I did.

 

15 Q. Does the statement you read refresh your

 

16 recollection about the statement you signed?

 

17 A. Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. Okay. And that is your signature on the

 

19 statement, correct?

 

20 A. Yes, sir.

 

21 Q. You told representatives of Mr. Jackson that

 

22 you’d never seen Mr. Jackson touch any child in a

 

23 sexual manner or in any way that could be construed

24 as sexual, correct?

 

25 A. That’s what I wrote, yeah. I signed to

 

26 that, yes.

 

27 Q. You said you’d never seen Mr. Jackson

 

28 unclothed or in the company of unclothed children, 7419

 

1 correct?

 

2 A. Yes. I mean, when I say “unclothed,” naked.

 

3 If you have on pants, that’s not unclothed.

 

4 Q. But you said you’d never seen Mr. Jackson

 

5 unclothed or in the company of an unclothed child,

 

6 correct?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. You said you’d seen Mr. Jackson play with

 

9 children, right?

 

10 A. Yes, sir.

 

11 Q. You said he plays as if he’s a child

 

12 himself, correct?

 

13 A. Yes.

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to reading

 

15 the document into — it’s hearsay.

 

16 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

17 MR. MESEREAU: Cross-examination —

 

18 impeachment, Your Honor.

 

19 THE COURT: Well —

 

20 MR. MESEREAU: I believe on

 

21 cross-examination —

 

22 THE COURT: Some is and some isn’t. You’re

 

23 reading the whole thing, so you’re not being very

 

24 discerning in your impeachment.

 

25 MR. MESEREAU: Well, I’m not going to read

 

26 the whole thing.

 

27 THE COURT: There was certain questions that

 

28 he was asked that you can do that with. You’re 7420

 

1 reading a lot more into it. You’d have to lay the

 

2 foundation for each remark.

 

3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Do you remember

 

4 signing a statement that discussed what you’d seen

 

5 of Jordie Chandler at Neverland?

 

6 A. I remember signing a statement. I believe

 

7 that statement that I signed was not at Mr. — when

 

8 I met with the attorneys. That was a statement that

 

9 was prepared by the investigator in his handwriting.

 

10 Yes, I did sign it.

 

11 Q. And you also corrected the statement before

 

12 you signed it, true?

 

13 A. My name, I corrected it, yes.

 

14 Q. You said you’d never seen Mr. Jackson engage

 

15 in anything sexual with Jordie Chandler, correct?

 

16 A. Yes.

 

17 Q. And you said that no one working at the

 

18 ranch had ever complained about Mr. Jackson doing

 

19 anything sexual with children, correct?

 

20 A. Right. No, that was before I went to the

 

21 grand jury, before I think, before I met with Mr. —

 

22 in Mr. Sanger’s office.

 

23 Q. The date was January 13th, 1994, right?

 

24 A. Right.

 

25 Q. Okay.

 

26 A. So that was about — months before I think I

 

27 went to the grand jury.

 

28 Q. You said you were the father of two 7421

 

1 children.

 

2 A. Yes, sir.

 

3 Q. That you had no problem leaving them alone

 

4 with Mr. Jackson, correct?

 

5 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to the

 

6 question. It’s hearsay. It’s an improper use of

 

7 the document.

 

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: At any time did you ever

 

10 tell any representative of Mr. Jackson that you are

 

11 the father of two children, ages 9 and 13, and you

 

12 would have no problem leaving them alone with Mr.

 

13 Jackson?

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: Same objection, Your Honor.

 

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

16 THE WITNESS: I probably did. I have no

 

17 reason to say no.

 

18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it refresh your

 

19 recollection if I just show you that portion of it?

 

20 A. If it’s there, it’s there, yeah.

 

21 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

 

22 THE COURT: Yes.

 

23 THE WITNESS: Right. Okay. Yeah, I signed

 

24 to that.

 

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You’ve had a chance to

 

26 look at that document?

 

27 A. Yeah, I’ve looked at it, sir.

 

28 Q. And you did make that statement, that you 7422

 

1 were the father of two children, 9 and 13, and they

 

2 had both visited the ranch, right?

 

3 A. I signed it, the statement. It’s not my

 

4 writing. It’s — I didn’t write that statement.

 

5 Q. But you signed it?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. After correcting it, correct?

 

8 A. I corrected my spelling of my name. I

 

9 didn’t sign — I didn’t write that statement, sir.

 

10 That’s not my writing.

 

11 Q. Does your signature appear on both pages of

 

12 that statement?

 

13 A. Yes, that’s my signature. I signed that

 

14 document.

Next, Mesereau began his dismantling of Abdool by interrogating him about the civil lawsuit that he and the other ex-employees lost. They sued for emotional distress, workplace intimidation & harassment, and other nonsense. Collectively, they were ordered to repay $1,473,116.61 dollars to Jackson, and some of them subsequently filed for bankruptcy protection!

15 Q. Okay. Now, the prosecutor alluded to a

 

16 lawsuit that you and Ralph Chacon and Adrian McManus

 

17 and others filed against Michael Jackson, correct?

 

18 A. Yes, sir.

 

19 Q. In that lawsuit, you also sued the security

 

20 guards that you called “the OSS,” right?

 

21 A. Yes, sir.

 

22 Q. And one of the security guards you sued was

 

23 James Van Norman, right?

 

24 A. Yes, sir.

 

25 Q. He’s the fella you just testified to

 

26 threatening you, correct?

 

27 A. Yes.

 

28 Q. Okay. And that was the longest civil trial 7423

 

1 in the history of this courthouse in Santa Maria,

 

2 California, right?

 

3 A. I don’t know.

 

4 Q. It was a six-month trial, approximately, was

 

5 it not?

 

6 A. Yes, sir.

 

7 Q. And at the conclusion of that trial, Mr.

 

8 Jackson prevailed, right?

 

9 A. Yes, sir.

 

10 Q. And you ended up with a judgment against you

 

11 for $1,473,117.61, correct?

 

12 A. I don’t know the figure, but that sounds

 

13 correct.

 

14 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

15 show you the judgment?

 

16 A. It’s fine. I accept it.

 

17 Q. All right. And the security guards that you

 

18 sued also prevailed —

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. — in that lawsuit, correct?

 

21 A. Yes, sir.

 

22 Q. And it’s your understanding that Mr. Jackson

 

23 won the case, was awarded costs, and was awarded all

 

24 of his attorney’s fees against you, correct?

 

25 A. Yes, sir.

 

26 Q. All right. Did you ever pay him any of that

 

27 money?

 

28 A. No, sir. 7424

 

1 Q. Do you know approximately when you filed

 

2 that case?

 

3 A. I think maybe .95, 1995. I’m not sure.

 

4 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

5 show you the Complaint? It has a date of December

 

6 2nd, 1994. Does that sound correct?

 

7 A. Okay.

 

8 Q. You sued Mr. Jackson for many different

 

9 claims, correct?

 

10 A. Yes, sir.

 

11 Q. You sued him for emotional distress,

 

12 correct? Right?

 

13 A. If it says that. I don’t recall all the

 

14 complaints.

 

15 Q. Well, you said you’d been intimidated during

 

16 your employment, right?

 

17 A. Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. And you testified in the case, correct?

 

19 A. Yes, sir.

 

20 Q. And you testified that you had suffered

 

21 emotional distress and various medical problems

 

22 because of the way you were treated at Neverland,

 

23 true?

 

24 A. Yes, sir.

 

25 Q. And your attorney was a gentleman named Mr.

26 Ring, correct?

 

27 A. That’s correct.

 

28 Q. When did you first go to Mr. Ring to talk 7425

 

1 about suing Mr. Jackson and the security people of

 

2 the ranch?

 

3 A. It would be after I — we stopped work at

 

4 the ranch. That’s my recollection.

 

5 Q. And approximately when was that?

 

6 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

7 Q. Do you know the year you left your

 

8 employment?

 

9 A. .94.

In this excerpt, Abdool was questioned about an alleged theft of gasoline for his vehicle at Neverland:

10 Q. Okay. Do you remember being disciplined

 

11 while you were working at Neverland for stealing Mr.

 

12 Jackson’s gasoline?

 

13 A. For stealing Mr. Jackson’s gasoline?

 

14 Q. Yes.

 

15 A. No, first time I — no.

 

16 Q. You were counseled by a security chief named

 

17 Mr. Wegner, spelled W-e-g-n-e-r, correct?

 

18 A. That’s his — yeah, that’s the correct

 

19 spelling.

 

20 Q. Do you remember being disciplined because

 

21 you had filled your car up with Mr. Jackson’s

 

22 gasoline?

 

23 A. Mr. Jack — where would I get his gasoline

 

24 from to fill my car up? No.

 

25 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to show

 

26 you that disciplinary report?

 

27 A. Sure. Yeah.

 

28 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach? 7426

 

1 THE COURT: Yes.

 

2 THE WITNESS: Okay. Yeah.

 

3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

 

4 look at that disciplinary report?

 

5 A. Yes.

 

6 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about that

 

7 issue?

 

8 A. Right. I remember that, yeah.

 

9 Q. Okay. A report was filed to that effect,

 

10 correct?

 

11 A. Right. Right.

 

12 Q. That you had improperly filled your own

 

13 vehicle with Mr. Jackson’s gasoline.

 

14 A. No, not improperly fill my vehicle. I used

 

15 my vehicle to go to — I think to Solvang to run an

 

16 errand, and I — it was replaced for me, the three

 

17 gallons of gasoline.

 

18 Q. Okay.

 

19 A. I remember that, yeah. I did not steal the

 

20 man’s gasoline. And that’s why I refused to sign

 

21 it, because I was having problem with the chief at

 

22 that time.

 

23 Q. You were counseled on the violation, true?

 

24 A. Yes. I told you I went — I used my vehicle

 

25 and — and —

 

26 Q. You were told a violation would be part of

 

27 your permanent record of employment at Neverland,

 

28 true? 7427

 

1 A. I don’t recall. Probably.

 

2 Q. Okay. There are gasoline pumps on the

 

3 ranch, true?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 Q. Okay. Staff, particularly security staff,

 

6 are not supposed to be filling their own vehicles

 

7 with Mr. Jackson’s gasoline, correct?

 

8 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as

 

9 argumentative.

 

10 THE COURT: Sustained. It’s a foundational

 

11 sustaining.

 

12 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you know the policy on

 

13 whether or not security staff are supposed to use

 

14 Mr. Jackson’s gasoline for their own personal use?

 

15 A. I don’t know if there’s a policy, but of

 

16 course you can’t use his gasoline for your personal

 

17 use. And as I said, sir, I did not use it for my

 

18 personal use.

 

19 Q. You’re not supposed to fill your tank with

 

20 it, correct?

 

21 A. I didn’t fill my tank. I put, what, three

 

22 gallons of gasoline. I vaguely remember that, yes,

 

23 that happened.

 

24 Q. All right.

 

25 A. I’m not denying it.

 

26 Q. Were you ever disciplined on any other

 

27 occasion that you recall?

 

28 A. I don’t recall. 7428

 

1 Q. Okay. Do you know one way or another

 

2 whether you were disciplined on any other occasion?

 

3 A. I don’t recall. That one he told me, it

 

4 even surprised me. I had forgotten about it. It

 

5 was a nonissue as far as I was concerned.

Back to the lawsuit: Abdool claimed that he had been “emotionally disabled, distraught, and depressed”, and could not work at Neverland or anywhere else anymore, and for that he should have been paid millions of dollars. Several physicians examined him and determined that he was being honest, but an insurance company refused to pay his benefits because they believed he wasn’t disabled. Not only did the insurance company reject his claims, but the jury did as well!

6 Q. Now, you claimed in your lawsuit that you

 

7 had been disabled because of what happened to you at

 

8 Neverland, true?

 

9 A. Disabled — emotionally disabled, yes.

 

10 Q. Yes. And you obtained a number of what are

 

11 called disability certificates from a physician

 

12 because of your disability, correct?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. And did you apply for state disability; do

 

15 you know?

 

16 A. What is state disability? I —

 

17 Q. Well, there are various ways to file for

 

18 disability, correct?

 

19 A. Well, like unemployment?

 

20 Q. Or disability. You claimed that you could

 

21 not work because of all the emotional problems you

 

22 had resulting from your work at Neverland, correct?

 

23 A. Yes, sir.

 

24 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, excuse me, I’m

 

25 going to object that the question is vague as to

 

26 whether he’s talking about — I don’t want to go any

 

27 further, but it’s vague as to what point in time or

 

28 what document he’s referring to. 7429

 

1 MR. MESEREAU: I’m not referring to a

 

2 document, Your Honor.

 

3 MR. SNEDDON: Well, then it’s vague.

 

4 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase.

 

5 Q. It was your position when you filed the

 

6 lawsuit against Mr. Jackson and the security guards

 

7 that you should get millions of dollars because you

 

8 had been emotionally disabled, correct?

 

9 A. Yes, sir.

 

10 Q. You claimed you were so distraught and

 

11 depressed that you couldn’t work, true?

 

12 A. Yes, sir.

 

13 Q. And you were actually examined by physicians

 

14 in that regard, true?

 

15 A. Yes, sir.

 

16 Q. And at one point an insurance company

 

17 refused to pay you any benefits because they said

 

18 you weren’t disabled, right?

 

19 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

20 object. It’s hearsay.

 

21 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember TIG

 

23 Insurance concluding that you, Mr. Abdool, are not

 

24 medically disabled?

 

25 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

26 object and I’m going to ask the Court to admonish

 

27 counsel. That’s the same question, and he just

 

28 asked it with a new start to it. 7430

 

1 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.

 

2 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

 

3 Q. The jury in your civil suit completely

 

4 rejected your claims that you were emotionally or

 

5 medically damaged by anything at Neverland, true?

 

6 A. Yes, that’s correct.

 

7 Q. And you never got the millions you were

 

8 seeking, correct?

 

9 A. That’s correct, sir.

 

10 Q. Do you know approximately when that suit

 

11 ended?

 

12 A. I know it was five, six months. I don’t

 

13 have the date, no.

Next, Mesereau questioned Abdool about his paid interviews with various tabloids after he quit Neverland. His attorney Michael Ring arranged these interviews so that the Abdool and the other four employees could pay their legal fees.  The Neverland Five were paid $15,000 dollars for their interview with The Star, and Abdool had no problems violating the confidentiality agreement that he signed upon his hiring at Neverland.

14 Q. Now, as head of security at Neverland, you

 

15 were concerned about media people coming on the

 

16 property, true?

 

17 A. Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. And one of your jobs was to try and keep

 

19 media people away from Mr. Jackson, right?

 

20 A. Keep anybody away from — from the property,

 

21 any intruders.

 

22 Q. But you were particularly concerned about

 

23 tabloid-type people, correct?

 

24 A. I would say generally anyone, any type of

 

25 intruder.

26 Q. But weren’t you particularly concerned about

 

27 media attempts to get to Mr. Jackson?

 

28 MR. SNEDDON: Object; asked and answered. 7431

 

1 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

2 You may answer.

 

3 THE WITNESS: I — we were concerned — I was

 

4 concerned with any intruder on the property.

 

5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. And would that

 

6 include the media?

 

7 A. Yes, sir.

 

8 Q. Would that include people who write for

 

9 tabloids?

 

10 A. Yes, sir.

 

11 Q. And was it your understanding that Mr.

 

12 Jackson was very concerned about his privacy when it

 

13 came to the media?

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: Lack of foundation; object.

 

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

16 You may answer.

 

17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Were you still employed at

 

19 Neverland when you first spoke to representatives of

 

20 the media about Mr. Jackson?

 

21 A. No, sir.

 

22 Q. How long after you left your employment did

 

23 you talk to representatives of the media about Mr.

 

24 Jackson?

 

25 A. I don’t recall, sir.

 

26 Q. You talked to somebody named Gary from an

 

27 organization called Splash, correct?

 

28 A. Right. 7432

 

1 Q. And it was your understanding that you would

 

2 be quoted in a tabloid called The Star, right?

 

3 A. It wasn’t me. It was the attorney’s office.

 

4 Q. But your understanding was that you were

 

5 going to be quoted in an article in a tabloid called

 

6 The Star, right?

 

7 A. Okay, yes.

 

8 Q. And you were interviewed along with Ralph

 

9 Chacon, correct?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. You were interviewed with Adrian McManus,

 

12 correct?

 

13 A. Yes, sir.

 

14 Q. How many meetings did you have with that

 

15 tabloid?

 

16 A. I think it was just one meeting.

 

17 Q. Okay. Do you know what they paid for the

 

18 interview?

 

19 A. No, sir.

 

20 Q. Did you ever hear they paid $15,000 for that

 

21 interview?

 

22 A. I probably did. I don’t recall that

 

23 exactly.

 

24 Q. And what you chose to do was rather than not

 

25 put the money in your pocket, you chose to use it to

 

26 fund your lawsuit against Mr. Jackson where you

 

27 wanted to get millions, right?

 

28 A. Yes, sir. 7433

 

1 Q. Obviously, it turned out to be a poor

 

2 investment, right?

 

3 MR. SNEDDON: Objection, Your Honor.

 

4 Argumentative.

 

5 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Does July 31st, 1994,

 

7 sound like the approximate time you stopped working

 

8 at Neverland?

 

9 A. Yes.

 

10 Q. Okay. How long after you stopped working do

 

11 you think you and Chacon and McManus got together

 

12 and met with the attorney about filing a lawsuit?

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: Object; assumes facts not in

 

14 evidence.

 

15 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it.

 

16 Q. Did you and Ralph Chacon and Adrian McManus

 

17 at some point get together and decide to jointly

 

18 file a lawsuit against Mr. Jackson?

 

19 A. I don’t recall Adrian McManus. I recall

 

20 Melanie Bagnall.

 

21 Q. Do you know who Adrian McManus is?

 

22 A. Yeah, she — she probably came on at some

 

23 time after we spoke. That’s my recollection.

 

24 Q. And all of you sued the private security

 

25 people that you called “the OSS,” right?

 

26 A. Yes, sir.

 

27 Q. And you all claim that these people had

 

28 terrorized you and caused damages to you, right? 7434

 

1 A. Yes, sir.

 

2 Q. And that claim, again, was rejected

 

3 completely by the jury, right?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 Q. Who were the other people that you claim

 

6 were causing severe distress to you and Ralph Chacon

 

7 and the others who joined in your lawsuit?

 

8 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

9 object to the question as compound with regard to

 

10 “other people.”

 

11 THE COURT: I’m not sure what you meant,

 

12 Counsel.

 

13 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase.

 

14 Q. You testified earlier that one of the things

 

15 you were concerned about was private security guards

 

16 of Mr. Jackson consuming alcohol, correct?

 

17 A. One of them I saw drinking alcohol.

 

18 Q. One individual?

 

19 A. Yes.

 

20 Q. Okay. And who was that?

 

21 A. Van Norman.

 

22 Q. Okay. And you also complained about someone

 

23 carrying a firearm, correct?

 

24 A. I — I don’t recall specifically. I

 

25 probably did.

 

26 Q. Well, you testified that you saw somebody

 

27 point a firearm at a fan, correct?

 

28 A. Yes. Yes. 7435

 

1 Q. And who was that?

 

2 A. Van Norman. That’s my recollection.

 

3 Q. Now, you never complained to Mr. Jackson

 

4 about Mr. Van Norman carrying a firearm, true?

 

5 A. No. Never.

 

6 Q. And you never complained to Mr. Jackson

 

7 about Mr. Van Norman drinking alcohol, correct?

 

8 A. Never. No.

 

9 Q. And you never complained to Mr. Jackson

 

10 about any of these private security guards

 

11 threatening anyone, right?

 

12 A. That’s correct.

 

13 Q. And, in fact, you never complained to Mr.

 

14 Jackson about any of them doing anything wrong at

 

15 any time, true?

 

16 A. True.

 

17 Q. Did you, if you remember, sign a

 

18 confidentiality agreement when you went to work at

 

19 Neverland?

 

20 A. Yes, I think I recall — I think I did one,

 

21 yeah.

 

22 Q. And was it your belief that as a condition

 

23 of your working at Neverland, that you were not

 

24 supposed to take information about Mr. Jackson’s

 

25 life and exploit it in the media?

 

26 A. That’s correct, sir.

 

27 Q. Yet, when you left your employment, that’s

 

28 exactly what you did, correct? 7436

 

1 A. Yes, sir.

 

2 Q. Did you and Ralph Chacon discuss what

 

3 tabloid you were going to sell a story to?

 

4 A. I don’t recall, no.

 

5 Q. Did you ever get together with Adrian

 

6 McManus and discuss what information you and she

 

7 were going to sell to a tabloid about Mr. Jackson?

 

8 A. Oh, I don’t think so. I think we just gave

 

9 an interview and she spoke and I think I probably

 

10 spoke, too.

 

11 Q. Did you learn that any of the information

 

12 you sold had actually been printed about Mr.

 

13 Jackson?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. And how did you learn that?

 

16 A. I recall — I think I saw the tabloid. I

 

17 think I saw it, yeah.

 

18 Q. Now, you actually hired a guy named Gary to

 

19 be an agent to get more tabloid opportunities,

 

20 correct?

 

21 A. Yes, we — we used him as a broker or

 

22 something like that.

 

23 Q. Yeah, he was a broker to go to various

 

24 tabloids around the world to see if he could sell

 

25 stories, correct?

 

26 A. Yes, sir.

 

27 Q. Now, to your knowledge, did Gary get a

 

28 commission from whatever he brought in; do you know? 7437

 

1 A. No.

2 Q. But you did this with the approval of your

 

3 attorney, right?

 

4 A. I wouldn’t use “approval.” But he explained

 

5 to us that we needed the money. So if you say

 

6 “approval,” yes.

 

7 Q. And part of the reason for doing all this

 

8 was to put pressure on Mr. Jackson to settle that

 

9 case and give you people money, right?

 

10 A. No. I don’t think so, no. We needed the

 

11 money. We had no money to go ahead with the case.

 

12 Q. The plan was to do what you could to make

 

13 Mr. Jackson want to get rid of this case, right?

 

14 MR. SNEDDON: Object as asked and answered,

 

15 Your Honor.

 

16 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And you actually had your

 

18 photograph taken by Gary, true?

 

19 A. I don’t recall. But probably, yeah.

 

20 Q. And the purpose of the photograph was to

 

21 have that photograph appear in tabloids, right?

 

22 A. Yes, sir.

 

23 Q. Now, did you and the other plaintiffs in

 

24 that civil case have a nickname that you used for

 

25 yourselves?

 

26 A. No, I don’t think so. I don’t recall that.

 

27 Q. Well, did you ever call yourselves “The

 

28 Neverland 5” or something like that? 7438

 

1 A. No.

 

2 Q. Did you ever see an article with a name like

 

3 that?

 

4 A. I’ve heard that, yeah.

 

5 Q. But that’s not a nickname you people were

 

6 using yourselves, correct?

 

7 A. No, I didn’t give myself that name.

 

8 Q. Okay. You also gave interviews about Mr.

 

9 Jackson in front of this courthouse, true?

 

10 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

11 object as vague as to when in time.

 

12 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it, Your Honor.

 

13 Q. Around the time you were pursuing your civil

 

14 lawsuit against Mr. Jackson, you had to come to this

 

15 courthouse from time to time, right?

 

16 A. Yes. Yes, sir.

 

17 Q. And you did give some interviews to

 

18 reporters at this courthouse, right?

 

19 A. I vaguely remember I think I spoke to

 

20 reporters outside, yes.

 

21 Q. Okay. And do you remember meeting with your

 

22 broker in a lawyer’s conference room in this

 

23 courthouse?

 

24 A. No, I don’t recall that.

 

25 Q. Do you remember meeting with Gary in a

 

26 lawyer’s conference room here when your photograph

 

27 was taken?

 

28 A. No, I — I would think that the photograph 7439

 

1 was taken in our attorney’s office in Santa Barbara.

 

2 Q. Okay.

 

3 A. It may have. I don’t recall, but I would

 

4 think it was Santa Barbara.

 

5 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

 

6 show you a —

 

7 A. No, it’s fine.

 

8 Q. — a page of your deposition?

 

9 A. It’s fine. If I said it, I said it, yeah.

 

10 Q. You remember your deposition being taken in

 

11 that case, true?

 

12 A. Yes.

 

13 Q. In fact, there are volumes of that

 

14 deposition, right?

 

15 A. What I’m saying is, if it’s there, then

 

16 that’s correct, but I couldn’t recall.

 

17 Q. Now, the plan initially when you hired the

 

18 broker named Gary was to put together a fund of

 

19 money to pay costs in the litigation, correct?

 

20 A. Yes, sir.

 

21 Q. And to your knowledge, that’s what your

 

22 lawyer spent that money on, right?

 

23 A. Yes, sir.

 

24 Q. Okay. Do you remember what you were

 

25 interviewed about by the tabloids?

 

26 A. No, it’s been a long time. I don’t recall.

 

27 Q. Do you remember being interviewed about Mr.

 

28 Jackson’s relationship with Lisa Marie Presley? 7440

 

1 A. Specifically me, I don’t recall that, no.

 

2 Q. Do you recall being there when Chacon and

 

3 McManus were talking about that?

 

4 A. I don’t —

 

5 MR. SNEDDON: Object as immaterial, Your

 

6 Honor.

 

7 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

8 You may answer.

 

9 THE WITNESS: I don’t specifically recall

 

10 exactly what questions and answers were given, no.

 

11 It’s been over 13 years. I don’t recall. But,

 

12 yeah, there was an interview.

 

13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Was Gary at the interview?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. Okay. Who else was there, if you remember?

 

16 A. I think Melanie Bagnall, Ralph Chacon,

 

17 myself, Adrian McManus. I’m not sure about Sandy

 

18 Domz. I’m not sure.

 

19 Q. Okay.

 

20 A. I don’t recall anymore.

 

21 Q. And do you remember you were quoted in an

 

22 article entitled, “Kinky Sex Secrets of Michael and

 

23 Lisa Marie’s Bedroom”?

 

24 A. I don’t recall being quoted in that article.

 

25 But if it’s there, the article — it may not be me

 

26 saying it, but if it’s there, if it’s quoted there,

 

27 it’s quoted there.

 

28 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just 7441

 

1 show you the title?

 

2 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

3 object. It’s immaterial. He stated he didn’t have

 

4 anything to do with it. Lack of foundation. It’s

 

5 hearsay.

 

6 THE COURT: Well, I will let him refresh his

 

7 recollection with it, but we’ll take a break first.

 

8 MR. MESEREAU: All right.

 

9 (Recess taken.)

After returning from recess, Mesereau questioned Abdool about his earlier statements of seeing Jackson and Jordan Chandler’s swimming trunks on the floor after they had both left the Jacuzzi area. Abdool admitted that he didn’t call authorities or make any attempt to intervene.

10 THE COURT: Counsel?

 

11 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

 

12 Q. Mr. Abdool, you described for the prosecutor

 

13 what you say you observed of Mr. Jackson’s behavior

 

14 with Jordie Chandler, right?

 

15 A. Yes, sir.

 

16 Q. Now, when you saw what you’ve described, you

 

17 did not automatically call any police officer,

 

18 correct?

 

19 A. That’s correct.

 

20 Q. And you were a former police officer

 

21 yourself, correct?

 

22 A. Yes, sir.

 

23 Q. You had been a police officer in — was it

 

24 Trinidad?

 

25 A. Yes, sir.

 

26 Q. How long were you a police officer in

 

27 Trinidad?

 

28 A. Three, four years or so. 7442

 

1 Q. Okay. And you were trained to use firearms,

 

2 et cetera, correct?

 

3 A. Yes, sir.

 

4 Q. And at one point you carried a concealed

 

5 weapon, right?

 

6 A. Yes, sir.

 

7 Q. Were you carrying a concealed weapon during

 

8 the time you worked at Neverland?

 

9 A. No, sir.

 

10 Q. Approximately when do you recall seeing Mr.

 

11 Jackson with Jordie Chandler? Can you tell me

 

12 approximately when you say you saw this?

 

13 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

14 object as to which occasion. Vague.

 

15 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Let’s take the first

 

17 occasion you described – okay? – dealing with the

 

18 Jacuzzi, all right?

 

19 A. Uh-huh.

 

20 Q. Approximately when do you think you saw

 

21 that?

 

22 A. I can’t give an exact date, but I recollect

 

23 when he came back from overseas. So it would have

 

24 been probably around the middle of .93 or so.

 

25 Q. Okay.

 

26 A. I’m just guessing. I —

 

27 Q. And you described another incident.

 

28 A. Yes. 7443

 

1 Q. The prosecutor asked you about the Peter Pan

 

2 statue, right?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. And approximately when do you think that

 

5 happened?

6 A. I don’t recall, but it would be in that time

 

7 frame, you know, maybe after. I don’t recall.

 

8 Q. Okay. This is sometime in .93, do you

 

9 think?

 

10 A. .92, .93, yes. It’s difficult for me to

 

11 give you a date.

Here’s a piece of irony for you! Abdool participated in Neverland’s “Family Day”, which took place AFTER the alleged incidents between Jackson and Jordan Chandler that he claimed to have witnessed!

12 Q. Now, are you familiar with a — an event at

 

13 Neverland called Family Day?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. And what is Family Day at Neverland?

 

16 A. Family Day is when the employees are invited

 

17 to bring their family.

 

18 Q. And you participated in Family Day with your

 

19 family, correct?

 

20 A. Yes. On maybe two, three occasions, yeah.

 

21 Q. You participated on Family Day at Neverland

 

22 with your family in 1994, didn’t you?

 

23 A. I don’t — I think it was Appreciation Day.

 

24 Employee Appreciation Day it was called.

 

25 Q. Okay. And you brought your family to

 

26 Neverland in 1994 to participate in that, correct?

 

27 A. Yes. Yes, sir.

 

28 Q. This was after the events you claim you saw 7444

 

1 that you have just described?

 

2 A. Yes, sir.

Next, Mesereau pivoted back to the Neverland Five lawsuit, and the topic of the numerous interviews that they gave to the media prior to the lawsuit. They were paid for their lies, and used the money to fund their lawsuit against Jackson.

3 Q. Do you know someone named Sandy Domz?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 Q. Who is Sandy Domz?

 

6 A. Sandy Domz used to work at the ranch

 

7 administration office.

 

8 Q. And did you work with her?

 

9 A. I worked on the ranch, but not with her.

 

10 Q. Was she working at the ranch while you were

 

11 working at the ranch?

 

12 A. Yes, sir.

 

13 Q. Okay. And you and Sandy Domz met with a

 

14 T.V. show called Inside Edition, did you not?

 

15 A. It’s possible, yeah.

 

16 Q. Do you remember doing that?

 

17 A. I know we gave interviews. Maybe

 

18 television, yes. It’s been about 13 years.

 

19 Q. I’m sorry?

 

20 A. It’s difficult to remember.

 

21 Q. She was the spokesperson for a group, that

 

22 included you, that gave various interviews, right?

 

23 A. I don’t recall, but that’s probably correct,

 

24 yeah. I’m not going to deny that.

 

25 Q. And one of them was with the T.V. show

 

26 Inside Edition, right?

 

27 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

 

28 object to the question. It calls for lack of 7445

 

1 foundation that he was — that he was involved.

 

2 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, he said he was

 

3 involved.

 

4 MR. SNEDDON: Well —

 

5 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

6 You may answer. Do you want the last

 

7 question read back?

 

8 THE WITNESS: Yes, please.

 

9 (Record read.)

 

10 THE WITNESS: What I’m saying is, if that’s

 

11 a fact, yes, I don’t deny it. But I don’t recall

 

12 specifically Inside Edition or who. But I’m

 

13 saying —

 

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You recall various T.V.

 

15 shows, correct?

 

16 A. T.V. shows or T.V. show, or newspapers or

 

17 newspaper, I don’t — yes. But I gave interviews or

 

18 interview, yeah.

 

19 Q. And you and Sandy Domz split some of that

 

20 money, right?

 

21 A. What’s the word? “Sweat”?

 

22 Q. You and Sandy Domz split some of the money

 

23 that you got from television, did you not?

 

24 A. No, sir.

 

25 Q. Did it all go to the attorney fund?

 

26 A. As far as I know.

 

27 Q. But Sandy Domz was not — excuse me. Did

 

28 Sandy Domz arrange these meetings or did they all go 7446

 

1 through Gary, to your knowledge?

 

2 A. I don’t recall.

Abdool’s motivation for suing Jackson was put on display, as he acknowledged to Mesereau that he “may have” aware of the $100,000 dollars that was paid to the Hayvenhurst Five by tabloids, in exchange for their stories about Jackson. Also, pay attention to Abdool’s admission that he met with tabloid journalist Victor Gutierrez, who referenced him throughout his book “Michael Jackson Was My Lover”:

3 Q. Okay. All right. Do you remember meeting

 

4 for several days with a book author named Gutierrez?

 

5 A. I met once with him. Not several. Just

 

6 once.

 

7 Q. It was a long meeting, was it not?

 

8 A. Probably, yeah. Two, three hours.

 

9 Q. Now, these meetings with various

 

10 representatives of the media, were they going on

 

11 during the lawsuit?

 

12 A. I don’t recall the specific one, but — I

 

13 gave interviews during the lawsuit, yes. I don’t

 

14 deny that.

 

15 Q. While you were doing this in 1994, you knew

 

16 that security guards at the Jackson family home in

 

17 Encino had gotten $100,000 for selling stories,

 

18 correct?

 

19 A. No, I don’t recall that.

 

20 Q. You never discussed that with your cohorts?

 

21 A. No. I may have. I don’t recall. I don’t

 

22 recall that one, no.

Next, here are a few general questions about Abdool’s interactions with Jordan Chandler, his responsibilities at Neverland,

23 Q. Okay. You’ve indicated you never spoke a

 

24 word with Jordie Chandler, right?

 

25 A. Yeah. I mean, I may have said — you know,

 

26 he asked for something, but conversation-wise, I

 

27 don’t recall having any conversation with him.

 

28 Q. Did you ever see his mother at Neverland? 7447

 

1 A. Yes.

 

2 Q. Did you see her on a number of occasions?

 

3 A. Yes, she’s been there on a few occasions,

 

4 yes.

 

5 Q. You said you worked with Ralph Chacon,

 

6 correct?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. And how long did you work with Ralph Chacon?

 

9 A. I worked most of my time at the ranch on the

 

10 graveyard shift. Ralph Chacon may have worked a

 

11 substantial time, too, graveyard shift. But he was

 

12 on another shift, also.

 

13 Q. Was he a friend of yours?

 

14 A. Yeah, we got along pretty good. I would say

 

15 a friend, yeah.

 

16 Q. You mentioned someone named Brett Barnes,

 

17 right?

 

18 A. Yes, sir.

 

19 Q. Did you ever see relatives of Brett Barnes

 

20 at Neverland?

 

21 A. I don’t recall. Maybe —

 

22 Q. Do you recall his mother?

 

23 A. — maybe yes; maybe no. I don’t recall.

 

24 Q. Do you recall ever seeing his sister?

 

25 A. No, I don’t recall.

 

26 Q. Okay.

 

27 A. I may have.

 

28 Q. Now, you indicated that you didn’t know if 7448

 

1 there were any rules should a child get out of line,

 

2 or wild, or anything like that. You said there were

 

3 no rules that you were supposed to follow?

 

4 A. I recall there were no procedure if a

 

5 child — I don’t recall anything like that.

 

6 Q. Well —

 

7 A. Of course, if they’re doing something really

 

8 bad, you know, you have to stop that, but —

 

9 Q. Well, you said Jordie Chandler crashed a

 

10 golf cart at one point, right?

 

11 A. Yeah, I remember he hit the golf cart at

 

12 one —

 

13 Q. Did you take care of him?

 

14 A. I think there was an accident report

 

15 written. That’s what I — vaguely.

 

16 Q. Well, what did you consider your

 

17 responsibilities as head of security to be?

 

18 A. To provide security for Mr. Jackson and his

 

19 guests, you know, the property and so on. Make sure

 

20 that intruders don’t come on the property. That

 

21 type of thing.

 

22 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you if you had

 

23 been head of security, right?

 

24 A. Yes, sir.

 

25 Q. And you answered yes, right?

 

26 A. Yes. For the last part of my employment,

 

27 yes.

 

28 Q. And how long a part of your employment were 7449

 

1 you head of security?

 

2 A. Maybe three months. Three months, four

 

3 months.

 

4 Q. Three months?

 

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. So that would be the last three months that

 

7 you worked in 1994, right?

 

8 A. Yeah.

 

9 Q. Okay. So you became head of security long

 

10 after you claim you saw Mr. Jackson act this way

 

11 with Mr. Chandler, correct?

 

12 A. That’s correct.

 

13 Q. And before you were head of security, what

 

14 was your position?

 

15 A. I was a sergeant, supervisor of the — of a

 

16 shift.

Back to the Jacuzzi incident: Mesereau challenged the credibility of Abdool’s claims by asserting the fact that, according to Abdool’s version of events, Jackson called him over to order sodas, so it would appear unlikely that Jackson would do that if he was engaged in any inappropriate conduct with Jordan Chandler.

17 Q. Now, you said that the Jacuzzi is located

 

18 outside the house, right?

 

19 A. The one I’m talking about. Maybe there’s

 

20 one inside. I don’t know.

 

21 Q. But there’s one outside the house?

 

22 A. Yes, sir.

 

23 Q. Is that in the back of the house?

 

24 A. It’s in the back of the house.

 

25 Q. Okay. And what else do you see near the

 

26 Jacuzzi in the back of the house?

 

27 A. There’s the Jacuzzi. There is a large

 

28 swimming pool. On the other side, there is a huge 7450

 

1 barbeque area with a roof, but it’s not, you know,

 

2 boarded, no sides.

 

3 Q. That Jacuzzi is in open view, right? It’s

 

4 not hidden by anything?

 

5 A. There’s some little shrubs in that area.

 

6 But it’s not hidden, no.

 

7 Q. Yeah. It’s a pretty open area, isn’t it?

 

8 A. Pretty much, yes.

 

9 Q. And guards who are walking around Neverland

 

10 or driving, can see it, correct?

 

11 A. No. If you’re driving, you probably cannot

 

12 see it.

 

13 Q. But if you’re walking around, you can?

 

14 A. Well, how can I answer you? We were told

 

15 not to go near Mr. Jackson and his guests, so we

 

16 would not walk where he was.

 

17 Q. There are hills above, correct?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. You could actually look down, can’t you?

 

20 A. If you look down with binoculars or so, you

 

21 could probably see.

 

22 Q. And there are offices on the hill, true?

 

23 A. Not in that area, no.

 

24 Q. Which area are you talking about when you

 

25 say “a hill”?

 

26 A. You said Jacuzzi?

 

27 Q. Yes.

 

28 A. In relation to the Jacuzzi, if you go way 7451

 

1 down, maybe 2-, 300 yards, in that area, there is

 

2 the administration office, the gardeners.

 

3 Q. Right.

 

4 A. But they cannot see the Jacuzzi area.

 

5 Q. They can see the pool area, can’t they?

 

6 A. No.

 

7 Q. Can’t see it at all, even if they look?

 

8 A. Even if they look. Because the arcade and

 

9 the trees in that area are going to be blocking that

 

10 area.

 

11 Q. The pool area is a pretty wide open area,

 

12 isn’t it?

 

13 A. Yeah, but there’s a big building blocking

 

14 it. You can’t see through.

 

15 Q. But guards do walk around, do they not?

 

16 A. Yes, when — but not when we have guests

 

17 and stuff. They don’t want us walking around when

 

18 they’re swimming.

 

19 Q. Okay. But you stay there when guests are

 

20 there because you’re supposed to protect the guests,

 

21 true?

 

22 A. Generally if guests are around there, you

 

23 don’t stay close where — you know, to watch them.

 

24 You would stay maybe like in the breezeway or in a

 

25 dark area. But you don’t — you know, you don’t go

 

26 close to the guests.

 

27 Q. But part of your responsibility was to make

 

28 sure that guests are properly treated, true? 7452

 

1 A. Yes, but we were instructed not to have

 

2 close contact with Mr. Jackson or his guests, to

 

3 keep away, give them distance.

 

4 Q. Well, to observe what you say you observed,

 

5 you would have had to get close to Mr. Jackson,

 

6 true?

 

7 A. Are you talking about the Peter Pan display?

 

8 Q. Talking about the Jacuzzi.

 

9 A. Yeah. Well, he called me for a couple of

 

10 drinks, for a couple of sodas.

 

11 Q. Right.

 

12 A. I was walking and he says, “Security,

 

13 security.” So I went to him, and he said, “Can you

 

14 bring two sodas?” And I spoke to the chef about it.

 

15 Q. Obviously, Mr. Jackson didn’t seem to be

 

16 afraid to have you see what he was doing.

 

17 A. I did not go near him. I was a distance

 

18 when he asked me for the sodas.

 

19 Q. He called you, right?

 

20 A. He called me, that’s correct.

In this excerpt, Abdool was questioned about his duties during the graveyard shift that he worked at Neverland, and his observations of Jackson during the night. (Jackson would oftentimes stay up until the wee hours of the morning.) Mesereau challenged Abdool’s assertion that Jackson “never” locked the doors himself when he returned, but Abdool stood his ground and maintained his earlier statement, and Judge Melville sustained Sneddon’s objection to Mesereau’s repeated line of questioning on this issue.

21 Q. Okay. Now, typically how many hours would

 

22 you work on a shift?

 

23 A. How many — pardon me?

 

24 Q. How many hours would you work on a shift?

 

25 A. Areas?

 

26 Q. No, hours, time.

 

27 A. Hours. Eight hours. Maybe a little bit

 

28 more if it’s needed, if we’re short. 7453

 

1 Q. And at the time that you say Mr. Jackson

 

2 locked his house, what shift were you working?

 

3 A. The night shift, the graveyard shift. I

 

4 think it was from like 10:00 to 6:00 in the morning.

 

5 Q. 10:00 to 6:00 in the morning?

 

6 A. Yes.

 

7 Q. Now, how often did you work that graveyard

 

8 shift?

 

9 A. I worked that graveyard shift, I’m just

 

10 estimating, pretty much all my employment. I would

 

11 say 75, 80 percent of my employment.

 

12 Q. And do you recall ever seeing Mr. Jackson

 

13 outside in the evening?

 

14 A. Yes, sir.

 

15 Q. Did you ever see Mr. Jackson walking late at

 

16 night?

 

17 A. Yes, sir.

 

18 Q. Ever see Mr. Jackson driving late at night?

 

19 A. Yes, sir.

 

20 Q. And you would sometimes see Mr. Jackson at

 

21 3:00 in the morning, correct?

 

22 A. Yes, sir.

 

23 Q. Because Mr. Jackson’s known to be by himself

 

24 sometimes at 3:00 in the morning, right?

 

25 A. I don’t recall seeing him by himself three

 

26 o’clock in the morning.

 

27 Q. He would take walks or he would drive,

 

28 correct? 7454

 

1 A. I don’t recall him by himself at three

 

2 o’clock in the morning.

 

3 Q. But you’ve seen him late at night on his

 

4 property, true?

 

5 A. Not alone, but with guests.

 

6 Q. Have you seen him late at night on his

 

7 property?

 

8 A. That’s correct.

 

9 Q. Have you ever seen him driving on his

 

10 property alone late at night?

 

11 A. No, I don’t recall. But I really don’t

 

12 recall Mr. Jackson driving alone.

 

13 Q. And you’ve seen him with guests late at

 

14 night, right?

 

15 A. Yes, sir.

 

16 Q. 3:00 in the morning was not unusual at

 

17 times, right?

 

18 A. I would say not unusual. That would be

 

19 unusual. Hardly ever. Maybe all my employment I’ve

 

20 seen him outside that time maybe two or three times

 

21 or so.

 

22 Q. And, sir, he has gone back into his house

 

23 late at night and locked it, hasn’t he?

 

24 A. That evening, that night? Before?

 

25 Q. He has done that at various times when he

 

26 goes out late at night, hasn’t he?

 

27 A. I don’t recall that, sir.

 

28 Q. Okay. 7455

 

1 A. He may have, but I don’t recall.

 

2 Q. But you didn’t check every time he went out

 

3 late at night to see if he locked the door when he

 

4 went back into the house?

5 A. Yes, you have to check. You have to check

 

6 the whole property to make sure the property is

 

7 secured.

 

8 Q. But he routinely locks that door when he

 

9 comes back in the wee hours of the morning, sir?

 

10 A. No. No, sir, I’m telling you.

 

11 Q. Okay.

 

12 A. I know that is a fact.

 

13 Q. So when he brings guests back into his house

 

14 at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, he never locks it,

 

15 is what you’re saying.

 

16 A. Mr. Jackson doesn’t lock the property, even

 

17 his house. We walk around and lock the house.

 

18 Q. Sir, you didn’t check every time he went

 

19 back into his house late at night to see if it was

 

20 locked?

 

21 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as

 

22 argumentative and asked and answered.

 

23 MR. MESEREAU: All right.

 

24 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, where is the Peter

 

26 Pan display in relation to the house?

 

27 A. If you have the — you have the house, the

 

28 main house – 7456

 

1 Q. Yes.

 

2 A. — there’s a breezeway. On like a big

 

3 archway, there’s Mr. Jackson’s office. So the Peter

 

4 Pan display would be if you’re driving to the back

 

5 of the house, and you come around to the side of Mr.

 

6 Jackson’s office —

 

7 Q. Uh-huh.

 

8 A. — the Peter Pan display, as far as I can

 

9 recall, would be on that window. So it would be to

 

10 the back of the house. Would be 10, 15 yards or so.

When questioned about the pay raise that he requested, prior to his grand jury testimony, Abdool stated that he made the request because the new security staff were paid higher than the old staff who already worked at Neverland. He also testified in greater detail about the duties of the new OSS security guards.

11 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated you had requested

 

12 a raise several months before you got one, right?

 

13 A. That’s what I recollect, yeah.

 

14 Q. And you had requested a raise to a Mr. Bray,

 

15 correct?

 

16 A. I remember requesting a raise to the

 

17 administration. I’m not sure if it’s directly to

 

18 Mr. Bray, you know, but to the head of Mr. Jackson’s

 

19 company. I knew he had put Mr. Bray in there.

 

20 Q. I’m sorry.

 

21 You had complained that you were very

 

22 underpaid, true?

 

23 A. Well, I said I should be paid the amount

 

24 that the last chief of security was being paid.

 

25 That’s what I recollect.

 

26 Q. Right. And didn’t you also complain that

 

27 others were getting paid more than they should, like

 

28 the private security guards? 7457

 

1 A. I don’t recollect that. I recall telling

 

2 them that some officers were working for more money

 

3 than some, and they should come up to be equal. So

 

4 the new officers were making more money than the old

 

5 officers we hired on. I think it’s fair that they

 

6 should get the same amount of money.

 

7 Q. Did you put the request in writing?

 

8 A. I recall so, yes. I vaguely recall that.

 

9 Q. And were you interviewed about that request?

 

10 A. By Mr. Bray, yes.

 

11 Q. Okay. Now, people in your security group

 

12 did not like Mr. Jackson’s private security people,

 

13 did they?

 

14 A. I can’t speak for everybody. But in the

 

15 beginning, I got along with them in the beginning.

 

16 Q. But didn’t a lot of tension develop between

 

17 the two groups?

 

18 A. Yeah. It developed as time went on, yes.

 

19 Q. And your group would not travel with Mr.

 

20 Jackson, right?

 

21 A. No. We were just security for the ranch.

 

22 Q. The other group would travel with him when

 

23 he went on tour, right?

 

24 A. That’s correct. That’s my understanding.

 

25 Q. They would travel with him to various

 

26 cities, correct?

 

27 A. That’s my understanding, yes.

 

28 Q. And when they returned — excuse me. When 7458

 

1 Mr. Jackson returned, they would come with him,

 

2 right?

 

3 A. No, that’s the first time they came on

 

4 property.

 

5 Q. Well, sometimes one or two would travel on a

 

6 flight with him, correct?

 

7 A. I don’t know. I’ve never been on a flight

 

8 with him. But I’m talking about Neverland Valley

 

9 Ranch.

 

10 Q. Right.

 

11 A. When Mr. Jackson came back in .93 or .94,

 

12 that’s the first time I’ve seen any one of his OSS

 

13 officers there.

 

14 Q. But he had security people in the past when

 

15 he went on tours, throughout his life, providing

 

16 security for him?

 

17 A. That’s my understanding, yes.

Next, Mesereau questioned Abdool about an alleged incident where he witnessed a guard named Van Norman point a gun at a fan, and this “frightened” Abdool, yet he did not file a complaint because of a “code of silence”:

18 Q. Okay. And he’s had security problems his

 

19 whole career because he’s so famous, right?

 

20 A. Yes, I know that.

 

21 Q. Now, you said Van Norman pointed a gun at a

 

22 fan; is that true?

 

23 A. Yes.

 

24 Q. Did you watch that?

 

25 A. Yes. He, like, put — like through the

 

26 gate.

 

27 Q. And you were upset with that?

 

28 A. I was frightened, you know. 7459

 

1 Q. And never made a complaint to anybody?

 

2 A. No. Who can you complain to?

 

3 Q. Well, you’re a former police officer. You

 

4 could call the local police, couldn’t you?

 

5 A. Yes, I could have. But in the conditions

 

6 there, you can’t talk. When you’re in that ring of

 

7 that employment, you don’t talk.

 

8 Q. Where were you living at that time?

 

9 A. Lompoc.

 

10 Q. On one of your trips back or forth to

 

11 Lompoc, you could have called a police officer,

 

12 correct?

 

13 A. That’s correct.

Mesereau finished his cross-examination by asking Abdool about a tape that he claimed had threats towards him, but when it was played it turned out to merely be a tape of his son and some music! Abdool only vaguely recalled this incident, and Mesereau swiftly ended his cross examination.

14 Q. Now, do you remember in your civil trial a

 

15 tape was produced that you claim had some threats on

 

16 it?

 

17 A. I vaguely remember. I remember there was a

 

18 tape, yes.

 

19 Q. And it turned out to be a tape involving

 

20 your son and some music. Do you remember that?

 

21 A. Could be, yeah.

 

22 Q. There was no threat at all, correct?

 

23 A. Probably, yeah. I don’t recall, but it’s

 

24 fine.

 

25 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. No further questions,

 

26 Your Honor.

Under redirect examination, Sneddon tried to clarify the issues that Abdool stumbled on under cross-examination: the Jacuzzi incident, getting disciplined for using Jackson’s gas, the guard who pointed a gun at a fan, Jackson hanging out with boys in the middle of the night, etc.  

1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

 

2 BY MR. SNEDDON:

 

3 Q. Mr. Abdool, with regard to those occasions

 

4 where you saw Mr. Jackson out at night at 3 a.m.,

 

5 was he with little boys on any of those occasions?

 

6 A. Yes, sir.

 

7 Q. Mr. Mesereau asked you why you didn’t

 

8 complain to Mr. Jackson about certain events that

 

9 were happening on the ranch with regard to these OSS

 

10 individuals. Do you recall those series of

 

11 questions?

 

12 A. Yes, sir.

 

13 Q. Why did you not complain to Mr. Jackson

 

14 about that?

 

15 A. I felt they were more like attached to him,

 

16 because he’d be talking with them and they would go

 

17 meet him personally and talk to him. So I was — I

 

18 was scared to, you know, go to him and complain

 

19 about the people who were close to him.

 

20 Q. Now, Mr. — Mr. Mesereau asked you about

 

21 this gasoline incident.

 

22 A. Yeah.

 

23 Q. And do you remember he showed you the form,

 

24 it was December of .93?

 

25 A. Yeah. Okay.

 

26 Q. And was it after that point, after this

 

27 incident where you wouldn’t sign for having done

 

28 anything wrong, that you became — they promoted you 7461

 

1 to head of security?

 

2 A. Yes, sir.

 

3 May I explain about the gasoline?

 

4 Q. Pardon?

 

5 A. May I explain about the gasoline?

6 Q. If you’d like to.

 

7 A. Yeah. What happened, I remember going to

 

8 work that evening, and I had very little gas in my

 

9 car. And I ran an errand, you know, to somewhere in

 

10 Solvang with my personal car. And when I came back,

 

11 I put three gallons of gasoline to — you know, for

 

12 whatever I used, because I had very little gas to go

 

13 home after.

 

14 And I told Mr. Wegner about it. I told him

 

15 about it. I told him I took three gallons of gas.

 

16 I didn’t hide it. And, you know, we had — in the

 

17 ending, we had — our relationship was not good.

 

18 Q. But in any case, after that incident they

 

19 still promoted you?

 

20 A. To head of security, yes.

Next, Abdool testified that he “couldn’t recall” what he had said during his interviews with Jackson’s attorneys, but he stated that he wouldn’t have lied and didn’t recall lying.

21 Q. Okay. Now, with regard to some timing

 

22 issues here, were you still employed at the ranch at

 

23 the time that you testified before the Los Angeles

 

24 County Grand Jury?

 

25 A. Yes, sir.

 

26 Q. Mr. Mesereau asked you a lot of questions

 

27 about interviews that you gave and your

 

28 participation in a joint interview with some — with 7462

 

1 a magazine.

 

2 A. Yes, sir.

 

3 Q. Did you ever say anything during those

 

4 interviews that you said that was untrue?

 

5 A. I don’t recall the interviews. It’s hard —

 

6 it’s 13 years ago. It’s hard for me to recall what

 

7 I said or what was — what I was quoted as saying.

 

8 Q. Well, I’m not interested in what you were

 

9 quoted, because we all know how we can be misquoted.

 

10 But with regard to what you have said, would you

 

11 have said anything that was untrue?

 

12 A. No, no.

 

13 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Calls for

 

14 speculation

 

15 THE COURT: Sustained.

 

16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Do you have a recollection

 

17 of ever saying anything to any of those people,

 

18 interviews, that was untrue?

 

19 A. No.

 

20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.

 

21 THE WITNESS: I —

 

22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Relevance;

 

23 foundation; calls for speculation.

 

24 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

25 You may answer.

 

26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: That means you can answer.

 

27 A. Can you say the question again?

 

28 THE COURT: He said, “No,” so – 7463

 

1 MR. SNEDDON: So just leave the answer in,

 

2 Your Honor? That’s fine.

Finally, Sneddon wrapped up his redirect examination by asking Abdool about the interview and book requests that he received prior to testifying in the current Arvizo case.

3 Q. And lastly, since this case has been in the

 

4 news – okay? – the present case —

 

5 A. The .9 —

 

6 Q. This case.

 

7 A. Okay.

 

8 Q. The current case against Mr. Jackson.

 

9 A. Yes, sir.

 

10 Q. And before you were subpoenaed to testify in

 

11 this case, were you approached by members of the

 

12 press to give interviews?

 

13 A. Within the last year and a half, yes.

 

14 Q. And were you offered substantial amounts of

 

15 money to do that?

 

16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;

 

17 foundation.

 

18 THE COURT: Overruled.

 

19 You may answer.

 

20 THE WITNESS: People have not talked money

 

21 figure. They have come to my house. They have

 

22 called me at work. They want to do interviews.

 

23 They want to write books. Many reporters in the

 

24 last year and a half have approached me.

 

25 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Have you talked to any of

 

26 them?

 

27 A. I pretty much chase them away. I tell them,

 

28 “I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to get 7464

 

1 involved in this.”

 

2 Q. And you’re here today because you were

 

3 subpoenaed to come, correct?

 

4 A. Yes, sir.

 

5 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further.

Abdool tried to make it appear that he refused those interview requests due to noble and honorable reasons, when in fact even if he wanted to cash in on the trial he couldn’t conduct any interviews because he was under a gag order! Mesereau brought up this point under recross-examination in order to make sure the jury fully comprehended Abdool’s real motives for declining those interviews:

7 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

 

8 BY MR. MESEREAU:

 

9 Q. Mr. Abdool, you’re subject to a gag order in

 

10 this case, correct?

 

11 A. That’s correct.

 

12 Q. You’re not allowed to talk to the media,

 

13 right?

 

14 A. That’s correct.

 

15 Q. You were informed of the gag order by the

 

16 prosecution, correct?

 

17 A. Yeah. About two, three months ago, yes.

 

18 Q. Well —

 

19 A. I’m talking about before that.

 

20 Q. Well, even before that, you knew that you

 

21 were a potential witness in the case, didn’t you?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. When did you first talk to any prosecutor

 

24 about your testifying in the case?

 

25 A. Mr. Sneddon called me about three weeks ago,

 

26 I think.

 

27 Q. Did you ever talk to any sheriff about this

 

28 case? 7465

 

1 A. No. No.

 

2 Q. Never gave interviews at all?

 

3 A. Yes, I talked to sheriffs long ago. 12, 13

 

4 years ago, I think.

 

5 Q. Okay.

 

6 A. But recently, no. Mr. Sneddon called me

 

7 about three weeks ago. That’s the first contact I

 

8 had with the sheriffs.

 

9 Q. Did he tell you there was a gag order on the

 

10 case?

 

11 A. The officer that serve me —

 

12 Q. Yes.

 

13 A. — the subpoena at my house told me there

 

14 was a gag order.

 

15 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. No further questions.

 

16 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further, Your Honor.

Summary of Kassim Abdool’s Testimony

1. Kassim Abdool worked security at Neverland from 1991 through 1994, but quit and filed a frivolous lawsuit against Jackson (along with four other ex-Neverland employees). During that civil trial, they and their lawyer were fined $66,000 dollars for unethical conduct, and they lost their lawsuit against Jackson, who in turn won his countersuit against them, and was awarded a judgment of $1.4 million dollars against them for reimbursement of the legal fees he paid. He was subpoenaed by Sneddon to testify about the alleged sexual abuse he witnessed at Neverland during his tenure there.

2. Abdool testified that he and Ralph Chacon were working the graveyard shift one night, and they witnessed Jackson and Jordan Chandler going into the Jacuzzi, wearing nothing but swimming trunks, and afterwards he saw them going into the bathroom area. Later that night, he observed Jackson wearing only a towel around his waist, carrying Jordan Chandler on his back into the main house, from the bathroom area. Jackson allegedly locked the French doors himself, and Abdool noted that as highly unusual because it was security’s job to lock the doors behind Jackson. When he went back into the bathroom area, claimed to have noticed that both Jackson’s and Jordan’s swimming trunks were on the floor, next to each other.

3. Zonen pivoted back to the French doors, and the fact that Jackson had locked them. Abdool testified that he ordered Ralph Chacon to go inside to secure the doors, but he refused. The insinuation here by both Abdool and the prosecution is that Chacon didn’t want to enter the main house because he didn’t want to possibly stumble upon Jackson and Jordan engaging in sexual behavior.

4. Next, Abdool testified about yet another incident of alleged abuse that he claimed to have witnessed. Jackson and Jordan had just returned from the theater to the back of the main house, and Abdool witnessed Jackson give Jordan a kiss on his cheek. Oh, the horror of it all!

5. Abdool was questioned about his grand jury testimony in May 1994. He testified that Jackson’s attorneys Steve Cochran and Robert Sanger offered to represent him before he testified, but he declined. Right before his testimony, he received a one thousand dollar a month raise, at his request, but after his testimony he allegedly received death threats from anonymous strangers who called his home, and as a result he requested that he and his family be placed into the witness protection program.

6. Sneddon moved on to the Neverland Five’s lawsuit against Jackson. Abdool admitted that he sold stories to the tabloids in order to pay his legal fees for his civil suit against Jackson. After this line of questioning, Sneddon ended his direct examination.  

7. Mesereau’s first order of business under cross examination was to clarify Abdool’s assertion that he was offered legal representation from Jackson’s attorneys Steve Cochran and Bob Sanger. The insinuation proffered by Abdool was that they were trying to silence him because they were afraid of what he might say to the grand jury.

Abdool testified that he had 3 meetings with Cochran prior to his grand jury testimony, and he “couldn’t recall” if he spoke about what he observed at Neverland. He didn’t recall signing a sworn statement on January 13th, 1994 in which he stated that he had never seen Jackson touch any child in a sexual manner, and he would leave his own two children with Jackson, until Mesereau handed it to him to refresh his recollection. Typical.

8. Next, Mesereau began his dismantling of Abdool by interrogating him about the civil lawsuit that he and the other ex-employees lost. They sued for emotional distress, workplace intimidation & harassment, and other nonsense. Collectively, they were ordered to repay $1,473,116.61 dollars to Jackson, and some of them subsequently filed for bankruptcy protection!

9. Abdool claimed that he had been “emotionally disabled, distraught, and depressed”, and could not work at Neverland or anywhere else anymore, and for that he should have been paid millions of dollars. Several physicians examined him and determined that he was being honest, but an insurance company refused to pay his benefits because they believed he wasn’t disabled. Not only did the insurance company reject his claims, but the jury did as well!

10. Mesereau questioned Abdool about his paid interviews with various tabloids after he quit Neverland. His attorney Michael Ring arranged these interviews so that the Abdool and the other four employees could pay their legal fees.  The Neverland Five were paid $15,000 dollars for their interview with The Star, and Abdool had no problems violating the confidentiality agreement that he signed upon his hiring at Neverland.

11. Mesereau questioned Abdool about his earlier statements of seeing Jackson and Jordan Chandler’s swimming trunks on the floor after they had both left the Jacuzzi area. Abdool admitted that he didn’t call authorities or make any attempt to intervene. And here’s a piece of irony for you! Abdool participated in Neverland’s “Family Day”, which took place AFTER the alleged incidents between Jackson and Jordan Chandler that he claimed to have witnessed!

12. Abdool’s motivation for suing Jackson was put on display, as he acknowledged to Mesereau that he “may have” aware of the $100,000 dollars that was paid to the Hayvenhurst Five by tabloids, in exchange for their stories about Jackson. Also, Abdool’s admitted that he met with tabloid journalist Victor Gutierrez, who referenced him throughout his book “Michael Jackson Was My Lover”.

13. Mesereau challenged the credibility of Abdool’s claims by asserting the fact that, according to Abdool’s version of events, Jackson called him over to order sodas, so it would appear unlikely that Jackson would do that if he was engaged in any inappropriate conduct with Jordan Chandler.

14. Mesereau finished his cross-examination by asking Abdool about a tape that he claimed had threats towards him, but when it was played it turned out to merely be a tape of his son and some music! Abdool only vaguely recalled this incident, and Mesereau swiftly ended his cross examination.

15. Under redirect examination, Abdool testified that he “couldn’t recall” what he had said during his interviews with Jackson’s attorneys, but he stated that he wouldn’t have lied and didn’t recall lying. Abdool also stated that he refused to talk to the media during the current trial.

16. Abdool tried to make it appear that he refused those interview requests due to noble and honorable reasons, when in fact even if he wanted to cash in on the trial he couldn’t conduct any interviews because he was under a gag order! Mesereau brought up this point under recross-examination in order to make sure the jury fully comprehended Abdool’s real motives for declining those interviews. Mesereau ended his recross-examination after this line of questioning was through, and Sneddon had no further questions.

To be continued: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/april-25th-2005-trial-analysis-kassim-abdool-jeff-klapakis-craig-bonner-victor-alvarez-part-4-of-4/

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4 Comments leave one →
  1. December 2, 2013 4:30 am

    Just wondering…isn’t there some sort of penalty for lying under oath a/k/a perjury. Some of these “witnesses” boldly lied on the stand, and then when caught would simply say they didn’t remember, and that was it? Is that how it works? Seems incredulous!

  2. December 2, 2013 4:22 am

    If after reading this testimony, people don’t see how Michael Jackson was being framed, railroaded and lied about, it’s because they don’t want to see. RIP Michael, they can’t hurt you anymore.

Trackbacks

  1. Michael Jackson > R. Kelly | Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  2. April 25th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Kassim Abdool, Jeff Klapakis, Craig Bonner, & Victor Alvarez, Part 2 of 4 | Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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