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May 9th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Francin Contreras, Gayle Goforth, Violet Silva, Ramon Velasco, Joseph Marcus, Part 2 of 4

February 1, 2015

After returning from recess, Sanger questioned Silva several security scares at Neverland, including an incident where a crazed fan was caught trespassing, and made it past all of the elaborate security measures! This fan was ultimately found on the top floor of the main house!

 

1 MR. SANGER: May I proceed?

2 THE COURT: Yes.

3 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. You’ve described the

4 patrol — you started to describe the patrol around

5 the house, and I think you said the person who’s

6 assigned to the house would be in that security

7 office at the end of the video library building,

8 garage building, and would also walk around the

9 house?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Does that mean walk inside the house?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did security walk inside the house from time

14 to time?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Was that part of the regular patrol, to walk

17 inside the house?

18 A. No.

19 Q. When you say “walk around the house,” then

20 you literally mean around the outside of the house?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And what was the purpose of doing that?

23 A. To make sure we didn’t have any hazards or

24 uninvited guests or trespassers.

25 Q. Was it important to make sure that the

26 house, in general, was secure?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Now, during the time that you’ve been there, 9506

 

1 have there been trespassers located on the ranch?

 

2 A. Yes.

 

3 Q. And how close to the house did they get?

 

4 A. We’ve had one trespasser who did enter the

 

5 house.

 

6 Q. And where was that person ultimately found?

 

7 A. In the very top floor of the main house, in

 

8 the train room.

 

9 Q. So right up above where the children’s rooms

 

10 are, Prince and Paris’s rooms are?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. So that was a very private part of the

 

13 house?

 

14 A. Yes.

 

15 Q. And without going into a lot of detail, who

 

16 was this person? Was this a fan or —

 

17 A. We determined she was not from this country.

 

18 She was a fan. We couldn’t communicate with her

 

19 very well, because she didn’t speak English, so she

 

20 was arrested.

 

21 Q. You speak Spanish yourself?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. So she didn’t speak English or Spanish, I

 

24 take it?

 

25 A. I believe she spoke German, which I do not

 

26 speak.

 

27 Q. So sort of a — not a normal person to sneak

 

28 into somebody’s house, though? 9507

 

1 A. No.

 

2 Q. And do you know how long that person was

 

3 there before she was located?

 

4 A. I’d estimate she was there approximately ten

 

5 hours.

 

6 Q. Have there ever been any people located on

 

7 the ranch who had weapons?

 

8 A. We recently did arrest someone who had a

 

9 weapon. It was not loaded with anything. It was a

 

10 disabled weapon.

 

11 Q. A handgun?

 

12 A. Handgun, yes. Nine-millimeter.

13 Q. Now, in your years of working in security,

14 have you ever performed security functions for Mr.

15 Jackson off of the ranch?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And where would that be?

18 A. I’ve taken them to the Lompoc fireworks

19 show. I think I’ve maybe done that two or three

20 times.

21 Q. Okay. If — have you ever been gone on tour

22 or gone to other cities with them?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Does he have security staff who he employs

25 for that purpose?

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. And that security staff is not in your —

28 under your jurisdiction; is that correct? 9508

1 A. No.

2 Q. Excuse me. All right. So when this foot

3 patrol — I’m saying “foot patrol,” but the person

4 around the house, you say foot patrol person around

5 the house, what are some of the things that they

6 check? You said there was some woman that got into

7 the upper house. I assume that’s something you try

8 to prevent.

9 A. Yes. We check the doors. The house is

10 secured at all times. Now the house is secured at

11 all times. So we make sure that the doors and

12 windows are closed. We also make sure that — you

13 know, if there’s anything like a fire happening or

14 some other hazard that’s going on.

15 Q. And that sort of thing has happened in the

16 past, has it not?

17 A. As far as fires?

18 Q. Fires.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. So you check the door, like the back door

21 and the front door, correct?

22 A. We check all the doors.

23 Q. Are there some doors around Mr. Jackson’s

24 private quarters?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. What doors are there?

27 A. There’s a patio door entrance.

28 Q. All right. So there’s a patio right behind 9509

1 Mr. Jackson’s private suite, correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And there’s a door that locks in the wall

4 around that private patio; is that right?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And why is it important to keep that

7 secured?

8 A. To make sure — well, we do open it

9 occasionally for people to go in and clean. If we

10 do find it unsecured, then we go as far as his back

11 door and make sure that it’s still secure, and we

12 clear the area, and then close it afterwards, lock

13 it.

14 Q. If some — an intruder were to get in and

15 they knew where they were going, and they were able

16 to get through that door, that would be a pretty

17 significant breach of security as far as Mr.

18 Jackson’s personal area is concerned; is that

19 correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. All right. Now, when we talk about the

22 personal area, are you aware that there are locks on

23 Mr. Jackson’s door into his personal bedroom suite?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. All right. There are guests who have — let

26 me withdraw that. If guests stay at the guest

27 quarters that are just across the front driveway —

28 is that right? By the lake, correct? 9510

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. If guests stay there, where do they take

3 their meals?

4 A. In the main house.

5 Q. So they would be expected to have the code

6 to come into the main house, sit down at the

7 breakfast table or the breakfast bar there?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Or the dining table, I suppose, for dinner,

10 right?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Is that fairly routine? In other words,

13 most of the guests that are staying overnight there

14 have access to the main house?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do most of the guests who are staying

17 overnight there have access to Mr. Jackson’s private

18 quarters?

19 A. I wouldn’t say most guests.

20 Q. So Mr. Jackson will decide who he’s going to

 

21 allow into his private quarters; is that right?

 

22 A. Yes.

 

23 Q. And on a given day, you might have staff

 

24 people and visitors and a number of other people in

 

25 that main part of the house; is that right?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. Does Mr. Jackson want to maintain some

 

28 privacy from that general group of people that might 9511

 

1 be there at any given time?

 

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Now, there’s also an arcade — I’m sorry,

4 no, that’s right, an arcade building.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. We talked about the video library, but

7 there’s a separate building that’s the arcade

8 building, correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. All right. And is that usually locked?

11 A. It’s locked at a certain hour, I would say

12 about 2 a.m. when guests are on property, unless

13 it’s been requested to leave it open all night.

14 Otherwise, it’s open approximately about 8 a.m. in

15 the morning.

16 Q. All right. And a part of that building are

17 a couple of bathrooms, a men’s room and a ladies’

18 room; is that correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And where is that in relation to the

21 swimming pool?

22 A. If you were facing the swimming pool, it

23 would be to the left.

24 Q. There’s also a tennis court nearby there; is

25 that correct?

26 A. Yes, it’s further left of that.

27 Q. So if people are using the tennis court or

28 the swimming pool, is that where they’d be likely to 9512

1 go if they were going to use the rest rooms?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And are those rest rooms, that rest room

4 area, is that left unlocked during the time people

5 are using the pool?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. All right. Now, that leaves the supervisor,

8 I think. What does the supervisor do?

9 A. The supervisor is there to supervise the

10 officers. Make sure that — we have daily duties

11 that we do, such as checking our inventory or

12 equipment, making sure that the basic part of our

13 duties are being met. We have something that’s a

14 little more elevated than regular routine business

15 there to manage that problem.

16 Q. I take it the supervisor also will keep an

17 eye out for security issues throughout the ranch; is

18 that right?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. By the way, are any of the security guards

21 armed?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Not with anything?

24 A. We do have pepper spray. But that’s used

25 only under very limited conditions. We’ve never

26 pepper-sprayed anyone.

27 Q. That’s pretty limited. So you’ve never used

28 it? 9513

1 A. Never used it.

2 Q. And it’s there for the case of an intruder,

3 for the most part; would that be correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. So you don’t carry firearms, stun guns,

6 anything like that?

7 A. Not during the time when I was chief.

In this excerpt, Silva described finding out about the raid on Neverland on November 18th, 2003, and she denied doing anything to hide or conceal any evidence from the officers:

8 Q. All right. You mentioned the gate logs.

9 And you’re aware that there was a search on November

10 18th, 2003; is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Did you — were you at the ranch when the

13 search occurred?

14 A. Not initially. But I did arrive afterwards.

15 Q. Was it your shift to be there?

16 A. I was not going to start my shift until noon

17 that day.

18 Q. So somebody called you, and you came more

19 quickly?

20 A. Routinely I would call in the morning to see

21 what activities happened overnight, if there was

22 anything I needed to be briefed on. So I’d usually

23 call around 8 a.m. to see what was new or what would

24 be expected for that day.

25 I was actually on the phone with Brian

26 Salce, who’s a firefighter, just going over regular

27 things when he was describing to me what happened.

28 Q. All right. So what happened, you were 9514

 

1 hearing that a whole lot of sheriffs deputies and

 

2 other people all of a sudden arrived at the ranch;

 

3 is that correct?

 

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. So you came in?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. At the time of the search, was there any

8 effort made to conceal anything from law

9 enforcement?

10 A. No.

11 MR. SNEDDON: Object; leading.

12 THE COURT: Sustained.

13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. To your

 

14 knowledge, were there any efforts made one way or

 

15 another to prevent law enforcement from finding

 

16 something?

 

17 A. No.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Same objection, Your Honor.

19 THE COURT: Sustained.

20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. In any event,

21 after the officers left, did you stay there till

22 they left?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. About what time of night did they leave?

25 A. Approximately 11 — between 10:30 p.m. and

26 11 p.m.

27 Q. All right. Excuse me one second.

28 I’ll just ask. Can I have the gate logs? 9515

1 I don’t remember the number. It’s the book with the

2 gate logs.

3 THE BAILIFF: Mr. Auchincloss has them.

4 MR. SANGER: There’s a good reason why you

5 can’t find it. All right. Thank you.

6 Q. All right. We’re talking about a gate — or

7 I’m going to talk about gate logs here in a second.

8 So you told us about the gate logs being

9 kept at the ranch, right?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. When are the entries made in the gate logs?

12 A. The entries are made as people arrive.

13 Their “in” time is documented or logged on the

14 sheet; when they leave.

15 Q. So in other words, they’re logs that are

16 made contemporaneously with the event. Something

17 happens, and it’s written down; is that right?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. It’s not written down at the end of shift or

20 the next day, for the most part?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. When the officers search — the team

23 from the sheriff’s department and the District

24 Attorney’s Office searched and they left, did you —

25 at some point thereafter, did you have occasion to

26 determine whether or not they had located all of the

27 gate logs?

28 A. I believe they had complete access — they 9516

1 did have complete access to it. We had two

2 investigators and one deputy in that security office

3 for approximately two hours.

4 Q. Did they take the gate logs for 2003?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Where were they located?

7 A. They were located in the file cabinet.

8 Q. Right there in the security office?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. All right. Did you later at some point

11 locate those records?

12 A. I located them that same evening.

13 Q. Later, in the middle of the night?

14 A. I was there for another day.

15 Q. All right. So you didn’t go home that

16 night?

17 A. No.

18 Q. What did you do with the gate logs?

19 A. I left them in the file cabinet.

20 Q. At some point, did you take those gate logs

21 out and give them to somebody?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Who did you give them to?

24 A. Mark Geragos.

Sanger wanted to make sure that the jury clearly understood all of the security procedures and protocols, so he questioned Silva about the incident from June 2002, when Gavin and Star Arvizo crashed a golf cart that they had been driving recklessly:

25 MR. SANGER: All right. I’m going to refer

26 to Exhibit 334 and 335, and I’d like to approach the

27 witness if I may, Your Honor.

28 THE COURT: You may. 9517

1 MR. SANGER: And I would — there is some

2 Post-its on there. I don’t know if they’re — okay.

3 May I inquire of counsel, Your Honor?

4 Did you put the Post-its on there, Mr.

5 Auchincloss?

6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: One of them, yes.

7 MR. SANGER: Okay.

8 Q. All right. Well, just ignore the Post-its,

9 all right?

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. And take a look at Exhibit 334 and 335.

12 Just take your time and look through it.

13 So that’s the pages from where your hand is

14 all the way to the end of the book, basically, okay.

15 You don’t have to look at all the pages.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Somebody’s already made an identification,

18 but I’m just going to ask you if those, in general,

19 appear to be the gate logs that you located in the

20 office after the search?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And those are the gate logs that you — that

23 you gave to Mr. Geragos; is that correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. At the time you gave them to Mr. Geragos,

26 you understood that Mr. Geragos was representing Mr.

27 Jackson —

28 A. Yes. 9518

1 Q. — correct?

2 And those gate logs are logs that were kept

3 on a contemporaneous basis? In other words, things

4 were written in them when they happened?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. Now, before we go to some of the

7 details in there, let me ask you a couple more

8 general questions.

9 Do the gate logs sometimes indicate

10 instructions that are to be communicated to all of

11 the security staff?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And what’s the purpose of that?

14 A. So that we follow that directive for the

15 day. Or if it’s a directive that’s given to us for

16 a two-week period, then it’s noted in the gate log

17 and then carried over until it’s no longer in

18 effect.

19 MR. SANGER: All right. May I approach and

20 retrieve the book?

21 THE COURT: Yes.

22 MR. SANGER: Thank you.

23 Q. All right. Let me go back to a subject that

24 you had discussed earlier with regard to records

25 that were kept. There are medical records; is that

26 right?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And the medical records, are they part of 9519

1 the gate logs, or are they just —

2 A. No, they’re separate.

3 Q. So it’s a separate file folder that you keep

4 these —

5 A. A separate binder.

6 Q. Or a binder? All right.

7 You mentioned that there was a — if

8 somebody was disciplined, for instance, for — or

9 let me withdraw that.

10 If somebody was involved in a golf cart

11 accident, as an example, there would probably be a

12 record of that made; is that right?

13 A. Yes.

14 MR. SANGER: And I’m going to put, if I may,

15 Your Honor, 300 up on the — on the board. Or on

16 the screen.

17 THE COURT: All right.

18 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Now, the trick is to look at

19 the board, and when you’re ready to answer, turn

20 around and speak into the microphone.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. So, first of all, just for the record, I’m

23 showing Exhibit 300, and it shows the tab at the

24 bottom there. And this particular document, the

25 testimony was it was seized by the officers. Do you

26 know where that was seized from?

27 A. It was most likely in a binder that was

28 located at the security office near the house. 9520

1 Q. Okay. Now, I’ll ask you another question in

2 a minute, so we’ll leave that up there, with the

3 Court’s permission.

4 Was it the position of the staff, including

5 the security staff, to reprimand guests, whether

6 adults or children?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Okay. And when would that occur?

9 A. Whenever we felt their safety was in

10 jeopardy.

11 Q. All right. If it’s not a safety issue, or

12 an issue of legality, for that matter, you know,

13 something that involves security, was it your

14 position to criticize guests?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Okay. What was the policy at Neverland as

17 far as how you treated guests, whether adults or

18 children?

19 A. We were very accommodating. Our emphasis is

20 on hospitality and making sure that they feel

21 welcome.

22 Q. Okay. And why was that?

23 A. That’s what Mr. Jackson wanted.

24 Q. And as far as — even though there are a lot

25 of people involved, were you trying to make the

26 atmosphere welcome to the guests, as if it was

27 somebody’s home?

28 A. That was our primary duty was to make them 9521

1 feel welcome.

2 Q. Okay. Now, if somebody was driving the golf

 

3 cart and there was a safety issue, you now have this

 

4 up on the board, and it appears that the driver in

 

5 this case was Gavin Arvizo, is that correct, on

 

6 Exhibit 300?

 

7 A. Yes.

 

8 Q. Okay. And this is something that happened

 

9 June 21st of ‘02; is that correct?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. All right. Now, according to this — by the

 

12 way, it says the reporting officer is G. Silva.

 

13 That’s not you?

 

14 A. No.

 

15 Q. As — you were the chief at this time,

 

16 though; is that correct?

 

17 A. Yes.

 

18 Q. And you were responsible ultimately for all

 

19 of the reports and acts by your officers; is that

 

20 correct?

 

21 A. Yes.

 

22 Q. Now, it indicates here, “Gave verbal warning

 

23 to slow down or golf cart would be taken away.”

 

24 Would that be a policy?

 

25 A. Yes.

 

26 Q. And so what would you expect your officer to

 

27 do at a time like that?

 

28 A. To take the cart away, if it was necessary. 9522

 

1 Q. So if it went on, actually take the cart

 

2 away and say, “You can’t drive the cart”?

 

3 A. Yes.

 

4 Q. And did that happen from time to time with

 

5 guests?

 

6 A. Yes.

7 MR. SANGER: All right. Now I’ll take this

8 one down.

9 And give me just a second, please, Your

10 Honor, because otherwise the book is going to be a

11 mess.

12 All right. The book is going to be a mess

13 anyway. I have to deal with it in a second.

14 Q. Okay. Now, did guests — were guests

15 cleared to do —

16 We can have the lights, if that’s all right.

17 I’ll come back to this in just a minute.

18 Were guests cleared to do certain things?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Were some guests not cleared to do certain

21 things?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And there was a list which — because the

24 book is falling apart, I’m not going to turn to it

25 right now, but there is a list when people are

26 coming on the property that, at various times during

27 the time you were there, guests would be cleared for

28 certain activities and not others; is that right? 9523

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And one of the activities was using the

3 quadrunners; was that right?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. If a guest was not behaving properly on the

6 quadrunners or didn’t show they were able to handle

7 them, they might be excluded from using the

8 quadrunners the next time?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. That would show up in your records so that

11 you would be able to refer to that; is that right?

12 A. If we were asked for a particular event, we

13 would be able to.

14 Q. Now, did you always make things available to

15 guests — take your time. Have some water.

16 A. Excuse me.

17 Q. That’s okay.

18 You also make equipment available to guests?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. If they asked for it?

21 A. Well, if they were allowed to use it, yes.

22 Q. Okay. Were there occasions where you would

23 not allow guests to use certain equipment?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And what technique would you use to advise

26 guests that — or convince guests that they might

27 not use certain equipment?

28 A. Well, if they requested it and they were 9524

1 allowed to use it, of course we would make it

2 available to them.

3 If they requested it and they were not

4 allowed to use it, then we would be very diplomatic

5 about our reason for not allowing it to be used at

6 that time.

7 Q. And how might you do that?

8 A. We might — we just would say simply that

9 the quads were not available for this weekend or for

10 this day.

11 Q. Something like that. All right. So once

12 again, you’re trying to be courteous to the guests,

13 right?

14 A. Yes.

Silva went on to describe her impressions of various families who befriended Jackson in the early 1990’s, including the Chandlers. She once again denied witnessing any abuse by Jackson, witnessing any child drinking alcohol at any time, or seeing any girls treated as “second class citizens” at Neverland:

15 Q. We’ll come back to the gate logs in a little

16 bit, but let me ask you some general questions.

17 I’m going to take you back to the period from 1991

18 to 1993 when you worked there.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. Did you have occasion to know the Robson

21 family?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And can you describe the Robson family?

24 A. The family that I knew is a mother, daughter

25 and son. Wonderful family. They seemed to be very

26 close-knit. Both Chantal and Wade are bright, very

27 articulate young people. And they’re always very

28 pleasant to be around. 9525

1 Q. Did you ever see anything inappropriate

2 occur with regard to the Robson family?

3 A. No.

4 MR. SNEDDON: Object; vague.

5 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer is, “No.”

6 Next question.

7 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Did you know the Culkin

8 family?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Can you describe that family?

11 A. Mother and father. I don’t quite remember

12 how many kids they had. I think they had a few.

13 Nice family.

14 Q. Okay. How about the Barnes family?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Tell us about them.

17 A. I met the mother, Karlee and Brett as well.

18 I met the father once or twice. Wonderful family as

19 well.

20 Q. And did they — did these families spend

21 time at the ranch while you were there?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Did they spend time as a family?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Did they engage in activities at the ranch?

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Was Mr. Jackson always there when these

28 families were there? 9526

1 A. Not always.

2 Q. Did you see Mr. Jackson interact with the

3 families?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. If Mr. Jackson was on the property, did he

6 spend all of his time with these families when they

7 visited?

8 A. No.

9 Q. What would Mr. Jackson do during this period

10 of time besides spend time entertaining the guests?

11 A. I wouldn’t know. I guess whatever Mr.

12 Jackson does on his own time.

13 Q. Okay. Does Mr. Jackson have a studio on the

14 ranch?

15 A. He has a dance studio.

16 Q. Does he spend time in the dance studio?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Is that someplace where he goes to work?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Does he spend sometimes hours in the dance

21 studio?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Does he work in the dance studio till late

24 night, late at night sometimes?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. All right. Now, by the way, do you know the

27 Chandler family?

28 A. Yes. 9527

1 Q. Can you tell me about the Chandler family?

2 A. Mother, young daughter at the time, I

3 believe her name is Lily, and Jordie.

4 Q. Okay. And did you — same questions I asked

5 with regard to the other families. Did you see Mr.

6 Jackson spend time with that family?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And sometimes he’d be on the property and

9 wouldn’t be with the family?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And sometimes he would not be on the

12 property?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Now, for the most part, when children

15 visited Neverland Ranch, did they visit the ranch

16 with their parents?

17 A. Most of the time, yes.

18 Q. Now, we’ve heard about the large groups of

19 kids that would come from either hospitals, or

20 Make-A-Wish, or disadvantaged circumstances. That’s

21 a different situation, I take it; is that right?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And can you describe what would happen when

24 those people would come to the ranch? I say “those

25 people.” When those groups would be invited to the

26 ranch.

27 A. A typical day for them is they would arrive

28 approximately between 10:30 a.m. and 11:00. They 9528

1 would be greeted by Neverland staff. Depending on

2 the size of the group, they’d either be divided into

3 two groups or kept in one group.

4 What they would see on the property is the

5 zoo area, which they would arrive via small train

6 that we have. They’d spend time there. They would

7 have lunch approximately around noon, and either go

8 to the theater or the amusement park. If we had two

9 groups, one group would go to the arcade and do the

10 same thing, but switch off so they weren’t in the

11 same places at the same time.

12 Eventually both groups would end up at the

13 amusement park at the same time.

14 Q. Did those groups of kids tend to have a good

15 time there, as far as you could tell?

16 A. Oh, yes.

17 Q. Okay. Is it part of the job that you

18 enjoyed watching these kids?

19 A. Absolutely.

20 Q. Now, those groups of kids would be monitored

21 or – what’s the word? – chaperoned or supervised by

22 people that generally came along with the group; is

23 that correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And then staff people at Neverland would

26 also assist?

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. With regard to the other children that came 9529

1 to the ranch, did the other children who came to the

2 ranch generally come with their parents?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. In other words, the guests, the ones that

5 might stay overnight, came with their parents

6 generally?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Okay. If parents were there to supervise,

9 would it be appropriate for staff to override a

10 parent’s decision on something?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And would that be appropriate?

13 A. That would be appropriate, again, if their

14 immediate safety was in jeopardy.

15 Q. So if kids were getting out of control,

16 would you intercede?

17 A. I’m sorry, I didn’t hear the last —

18 Q. If kids were getting out of control, would

19 you intercede?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Did you have any knowledge of any child

22 drinking alcohol or appearing to be under the

23 influence at any time when you worked there from

24 1991 to the present?

25 A. No personal knowledge, no.

26 Q. And the alcohol on the ranch was — where

27 was that kept?

28 A. We — I believe there is some alcohol 9530

1 located in the kitchen. Generally it’s kept in the

2 wine cellar.

3 Q. All right. And was the wine cellar

4 generally locked?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Were children allowed to go into the wine

7 cellar?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Where was the key kept for the wine cellar?

10 And I’m going to ask you if it’s moved from one time

11 to another. Would you tell us about that?

12 A. Depending on the activity, there are two

13 keys available. One in the main house and one in

14 the security office.

15 Q. All right. And do you know where the key in

16 the main house was kept?

17 A. Mostly behind the door as you enter the

18 house staff’s break room.

19 Q. So in the house, if you go through the back

20 door, there is a little hallway that takes you to

21 the left. That would take you to the kitchen and

22 the family room, dining room, that sort of thing; is

23 that correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And if you went through all of that, you’d

26 keep going, you’d get to the library and to Mr.

27 Jackson’s private area; is that correct?

28 A. Yes. 9531

1 Q. If you come in the back door and enter that

2 hallway, just to the right is where the maids’ break

3 room is; is that correct?

4 A. If you go through the back door, it’s

5 directly across. You go straight into the —

6 Q. So instead of going left down the hallway,

7 you just go straight into that room?

8 A. Straight into it.

9 Q. All right. And is that a room that has

10 couches and chairs and whatnot?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Comfortable room?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And that’s used for the staff to take

15 breaks, I take it?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And as you go across that hallway, just

18 right inside the back door, the rack with the keys

19 on it is just behind the door as you enter the break

20 room; is that right?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And the break room is left unlocked for the

23 most part; is that right?

24 A. As far as I know it is.

25 Q. Okay. Now, with regard to children visiting

26 the ranch and activities – and let’s talk about the

27 guests who were staying overnight as opposed to the

28 guests from the Make-A-Wish and that sort of thing – 9532

1 were both boys and girls included in the activities

2 at Neverland?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Was there any discrimination, to your

5 knowledge?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did girls seem to have a good time?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Do you remember Marie Nicole?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And who’s Marie Nicole?

12 A. Marie Nicole is the only daughter in the

13 Cascio family.

14 Q. Okay. And did she have the same run of the

15 ranch, as it were, as her brothers?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And you mentioned the families — the Robson

18 family, the Barnes family. They both had daughters?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And the Culkin family also had daughters; is

21 that correct?

22 A. One daughter.

23 Q. Were those girls entitled to the same

24 privileges that their brothers were?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Did they engage in Super Soaker games from

27 time to time?

28 A. Yes. 9533

1 Q. Water balloon fights?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did they go in the Jacuzzi?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. The pool?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Play in the arcade?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Go in the house?

10 A. Yes.

Silva spent a great amount of time testifying about her observations of the Arvizo family throughout the years at Neverland. She described Janet as either being “excited” or “not speaking at all” during the period of time that she was “held hostage” at Neverland during February 2003, and said that the Arvizos never complained about anything:

11 Q. All right. Now, at some point, you met a

12 person named Gavin Arvizo; is that correct?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Do you recall roughly when the first time

15 was that Gavin Arvizo came to the ranch?

16 A. August of 2002.

17 Q. August of 2002?

18 A. August of 2000, excuse me.

19 Q. Okay. That’s fine. And the — did he come

20 there with his family?

21 A. The first time I met him, I met him with his

22 brother Star and his father David, I believe.

23 Q. Okay. Did you ever — the first — let me

24 withdraw that.

25 Was Janet Arvizo there the first time you

26 met Gavin?

27 A. I did not meet Mrs. Arvizo the first time.

28 Q. What do you recall about the first visit 9534

1 that the Arvizos had to the ranch?

2 A. Well, Gavin was quite sick at the time.

3 What I most remember is the dad being present and

4 taking care of him with his brother.

5 Q. Okay. Were there other visits between 2000

6 and 2003? In other words, before February of 2003,

7 were there other visits that the Arvizo family made

8 to the ranch?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And during those visits, was Mr. Jackson

11 always present at the ranch?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Who did they tend to come with when Mr.

14 Jackson was not present?

15 A. Chris Tucker.

16 Q. Was the father always present?

17 A. No. After they came, I believe, after Gavin

18 was sick, he seemed to recover, and I don’t remember

19 the father coming after that.

20 Q. Okay. So while Gavin was sick, his father

21 was there; is that correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And while the father was there, how did the

24 boys behave?

25 A. There were very well behaved.

26 Q. When the father stopped coming, how did the

27 boys behave?

28 A. They increasingly became a little more 9535

1 rambunctious.

2 Q. All right. Now, you said that Gavin seemed

3 to be ill and was eventually recovering, and he got

4 to a point where he seemed to have recovered?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. While he was visibly ill, how did Mr.

7 Jackson interact with him?

8 A. I think he was very gentle with him, very

9 caring, just what I remember at the time.

10 Q. Did he seem to be concerned about him, his

11 well-being?

12 A. Yes.

13 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object. Calls

14 for speculation.

15 THE COURT: It’s leading. Sustained.

16 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. Now, let’s talk

 

17 about up to the point just before February 2003. Do

 

18 you recall the last time that this family or any

 

19 members of this family visited the ranch?

 

20 A. I believe it was in the summer of 2002.

 

21 Q. And how were the Arvizo boys behaving during

 

22 that time, in the summer of 2002?

 

23 A. They were quite active during that time

 

24 period.

 

25 Q. And when you say “quite active,” what did

 

26 they do?

 

27 A. I would say they were enjoying all the

 

28 privileges of the ranch. I wouldn’t say they were 9536

 

1 nonstop, but they were pretty active.

 

2 Q. Okay. And did they have some problems that

 

3 seemed to need some attention?

 

4 A. Yes.

 

5 Q. Can you describe what that was?

 

6 A. Well, we just had a viewing of a golf cart

 

7 accident, so that would be one example.

8 Q. Okay. Do you recall the family coming to

9 the ranch in February of 2003?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And what happened in February 2003? Let me

12 withdraw that.

13 Let’s start with this: What were the Arvizo

14 children doing in February of 2003?

15 A. They were there for an extended amount of

16 time. I don’t know exactly what they were there

17 for.

18 Q. Okay. Did they tend to be in the presence

19 of the security people?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Describe that.

22 A. Well, they were there for quite a while, off

23 and on, throughout the weeks. We had contact with

24 them because of their behavior, their activity.

25 That’s pretty — it was pretty limited to that.

26 Q. What did they — what kind of behavior are

27 you talking about?

28 A. You know, again, they were active. I guess 9537

1 I’m trying to be polite here. They were very

2 active.

3 Q. Well, you have to be — it’s nice that

 

4 you’re being polite, but we have to ask you to just

 

5 tell it like it is, whatever it is.

 

6 A. They were pretty reckless at the time. They

 

7 were driving very fast in the golf carts. They were

 

8 also driving ranch vehicles. They’d get in a ranch

 

9 vehicle, and take off and drive, and we’d have to

 

10 stop them. You know, they were young. They

 

11 couldn’t drive a regular vehicle.

 

12 Q. Well, let me stop you at that for a moment.

 

13 When you say “ranch vehicles,” what kind of vehicles

 

14 did you have to stop them in?

 

15 A. A regular van, like an Astro van. Mr.

 

16 Jackson’s personal vehicle, a Navigator at the time.

 

17 Other things, like — they were pretty destructive,

 

18 I would say.

19 Q. So let’s talk about the vehicles first. At

20 the ranch, are the keys usually left in the vehicles

21 during the day?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Are they left in the vehicles during the

24 night?

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. In fact, in the garage — there are some

27 vehicles that are parked in the garage, correct?

28 A. Yes. 9538

1 Q. And the keys for those vehicles are sitting

2 right up on the dashboard right there in view?

3 A. Depending on what is in the garage at the

4 time, I would say yes.

5 Q. Okay. So when the Arvizo kids got the —

6 say, the Astro van, an Astro is like a regular

7 mini-van, right?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. When they got in, say, the Astro van and

 

10 started driving it, to your knowledge, did they ask

 

11 anybody for permission?

 

12 A. No.

 

13 Q. And where would they drive it?

 

14 A. They would drive it on the property.

 

15 Q. Okay. Do you know if they ever drove out

 

16 through the gates, the golden gates I guess you call

 

17 them?

 

18 A. Well, they did drive it around. How far

 

19 they went — they never drove off the property, but

 

20 they drove on the property.

 

21 Q. Okay. Did they drive golf carts through the

 

22 golden gates?

 

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. So they would be out in that area between

25 the — I still don’t have the word for it, but

26 whatever it is, the private —

27 A. Occupied area of the property.

28 Q. There you go. Occupied area. They’d be out 9539

1 in the area that is more or less ranch land; is that

2 correct?

3 A. Right.

4 Q. All right. Were they neat and tidy?

5 A. Not always.

6 Q. What would you tell us about that?

7 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object, unless

8 there’s some foundation as to personal knowledge as

9 to this.

10 THE COURT: Sustained.

11 Q. BY MR. SANGER: To your knowledge, did you

12 see whether or not they were neat and tidy?

13 MR. SNEDDON: Same objection.

14 THE COURT: Sustained. “To your knowledge”

15 still encompasses beyond her personal knowledge.

16 MR. SANGER: “Did you see” is what I asked.

17 Okay. Let me withdraw the first part.

18 Q. Did you see any behavior with regard to

19 whether or not they were neat and tidy?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. What did you see?

22 A. I saw them wearing the same clothes for a

23 few days.

24 Q. How about taking care of policing their area

25 or picking up after themselves? Did they do that?

26 A. Well, they littered quite a bit. So — the

27 personal area I didn’t have access to.

28 Q. All right. Now, from February to March of 9540

1 2003, did you see Janet Arvizo from time to time?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Did you ever see her?

4 A. Rarely.

5 Q. Okay. So let’s talk about the rare times

 

6 when you saw her, okay? Can you describe her

 

7 demeanor during the rare times you saw her from

 

8 February through March?

 

9 A. I would say she was from either excited or

 

10 not excited. She was never just — I don’t want to

 

11 say “normal,” but she was either very happy or she

 

12 wasn’t speaking.

 

13 Q. All right. Was that unusual to you?

 

14 A. I don’t know. I didn’t know Mrs. Arvizo, so

 

15 I don’t know what her demeanor — her regular

 

16 demeanor was.

17 Q. I guess what I’m saying, are you describing

18 somebody that we’d all — never mind. Let’s put it

19 this way: Are you describing what you might call

20 normal behavior or did this seem to be more extreme?

21 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

22 object as lack of foundation.

23 THE COURT: Sustained.

24 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. So she’d either

25 be happy or she would be very quiet?

26 A. Very quiet.

27 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object. Asked

28 and answered. 9541

1 MR. SANGER: It’s leading into the next

2 question.

3 MR. SNEDDON: Well, that doesn’t make it —

4 THE COURT: The answer was, “Very quiet.”

5 Next question.

6 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Where would she go when she

7 was on the ranch during that period of time,

8 February and March?

9 MR. SNEDDON: Object; lack of foundation.

10 THE COURT: Sustained.

11 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Did you see where she went?

12 A. I saw that she — I know she was assigned a

13 guest unit.

14 Q. And did you see her at — now, you would not

15 be in the house; is that right?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did you see her around other parts of the

18 property from time to time?

19 A. Very rarely.

20 Q. Who was taking care of the boys, Gavin and

21 Star?

22 MR. SNEDDON: Object. Calls for a

23 conclusion; lack of foundation.

24 MR. SANGER: Okay. Let me withdraw it, just

25 to make this clear.

26 Q. I’m going to ask you about what you observed

27 yourself, okay? So the first question is, based on

28 your observations, who was taking care of the boys? 9542

1 MR. SNEDDON: I still object. There’s been

2 no foundation that she ever saw anything, and it

3 calls for a conclusion.

4 THE COURT: Sustained.

5 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Did you see the boys, Star

 

6 and Gavin, during this period of time, February to

 

7 March of 2003?

 

8 A. Yes.

 

9 Q. Did you see Davellin?

 

10 A. Yes.

 

11 Q. Did you have an opportunity to determine who

 

12 was taking care of the boys?

 

13 A. I would say Davellin was taking care of

 

14 them.

 

15 Q. Did you see Janet Arvizo interact with her

 

16 boys at all during that period of time?

 

17 A. No.

 

18 Q. What would Davellin do to take care of the

 

19 boys?

 

20 A. If they needed correcting or if they were

 

21 being — if they were saying something that was

 

22 inappropriate, she would ask them to stop talking

 

23 about that, or she’d remind them to go take a

 

24 shower, or something like that.

25 Q. And what was Davellin doing on the ranch

26 during this period of time?

27 A. She was doing what the boys were doing.

28 Watching movies. Driving around in golf carts. 9543

1 Q. Did she seem to be having a good time?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did any of the Arvizo kids spend time, to

4 your knowledge, to your observation, with the

5 security staff?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. What did they do?

8 A. They would come and visit us from time to

9 time in the office and sit in our — sit in our

10 office.

11 Q. And would they talk to you?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What would they talk about?

14 A. Oh, just regular things. You know, what we

15 were doing, and, you know, what was going on, that

16 type of thing.

17 Q. Did they ever complain to you about

 

18 anything?

 

19 A. No.

 

20 Q. Now, you said you saw Janet Arvizo from time

 

21 to time. Did she ever complain to you about

 

22 anything?

 

23 A. No.

 

24 Q. During the February to March 2003 period,

 

25 did the Arvizos leave the ranch from time to time?

 

26 A. Yes.

 

27 Q. Who took them off the ranch?

 

28 A. I would say it was limited to either Vinnie 9544

 

1 Amen or Chris Carter. Occasionally Mr. Marcus, Joe

 

2 Marcus, would take them off property.

 

3 Q. Okay. And what were the purposes of going

 

4 off the property?

 

5 A. I’m not sure. I didn’t inquire. Once they

 

6 were there at the gate and they were ready to leave,

 

7 we would just open the gate and let them leave.

 

8 Q. Were there times they went off the property,

 

9 for instance, during the day, and they came back

 

10 three or four hours later?

 

11 A. Yes.

 

12 Q. And when they went through the gate, did

 

13 they check in and out just like any other guests?

 

14 A. Most of the time. I mean, sometimes if we

 

15 have a guest that’s, you know, coming on and off the

 

16 property, we wave them through, make sure we get a

 

17 head count to see who’s leaving so we can account

 

18 for them later.

 

19 Q. So when people would go off for a trip to

 

20 town, for instance, you would not necessarily always

 

21 write that down; is that correct?

 

22 A. No, we would write it down. I mean, someone

 

23 will slip through. You don’t always see someone.

 

24 Maybe they’re sitting down in the seat. And we try

 

25 not to hold anyone up at the gate if they’re

 

26 leaving.

Next, Sanger questioned Silva about her observations of the interactions between the Arvizos and Ronald Konitzer and Dieter Weizner, two of the five unindicted co-conspirators:

27 Q. All right. Did you — do you know Ronald

28 Konitzer and Dieter Weizner? 9545

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And were they at the ranch in February and

3 March of 2003?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Were they there every single day?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Was Ronald Konitzer there with anybody?

8 A. He was there with his wife and his son.

9 Q. And did you have an opportunity to observe

10 Mr. Konitzer and his wife and his son?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Can you describe their demeanor?

13 MR. SNEDDON: Object as irrelevant, Your

14 Honor.

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

16 THE WITNESS: They seemed to interact like a

17 regular family.

18 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Were they impolite, or

19 polite, or —

20 A. No, they were very polite.

21 Q. Did you see — when you saw Dieter Weizner

22 there, what did you see him doing?

23 A. He was there on the property. Exactly what

24 his function was, I don’t know.

25 Q. All right. Did you see either Ronald

 

26 Konitzer or Dieter Weizner ever treat any of the

 

27 Arvizos in an unusual or inappropriate fashion?

 

28 A. No. 9546

1 MR. SNEDDON: Object; lack of foundation.

2 THE COURT: Sustained.

3 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Did you ever see any of the

4 Arvizos in the presence of Mr. Konitzer and Mr.

5 Weizner?

6 A. I can’t recall a specific time, but they

7 were there on the property at the same time.

8 Q. They were there together with —

9 MR. SNEDDON: Move to strike as

10 nonresponsive.

11 THE COURT: I’ll strike the last phrase,

12 they were on the property.

13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. Well, during February

14 and March 2003, were Konitzer and Weizner on the

15 property at the same time as the Arvizos?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you see any interaction between them?

18 A. No.

19 Q. By the way, who is Miko Brando?

20 A. Miko Brando is the son of Marlon Brando.

21 Q. And was he a guest or an employee, to your

22 knowledge?

23 A. He’s been both. But on this occasion,

24 again, I don’t know what he was doing. I know that

25 he was there off and on.

Janet’s “escape” from Neverland with employee Katie Bernard to a salon was the next topic of questioning, and Silva testified that there was nothing that prevented Janet Arvizo from calling police if she felt the need to do so:

26 Q. Did you ever see Janet Arvizo leave the

27 premises with Katie Bernard?

28 A. Yes. 9547

1 Q. Who is Katie Bernard?

2 A. Katie Bernard was the secretary at the time.

3 Q. All right. So she’s an employee of the

4 ranch, correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And what kind of a vehicle did they leave

7 in; do you know?

8 A. I don’t recall right at this moment. It

9 probably was a ranch vehicle.

10 Q. All right. And do you recall roughly when

11 this occurred?

12 A. It was during the time they were there. I

13 believe during the initial part of their visit.

14 Q. Okay. Initial part of February? I couldn’t

15 hear you.

16 A. The initial part of their visit, yes.

17 Q. Would that be the first part of February?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And do you recall Katie Bernard — let me

20 withdraw that.

21 Do you recall the purpose of Janet Arvizo

 

22 leaving with Katie Bernard?

 

23 A. I believe she had a salon visit.

24 Q. Okay. Was there any film crew following

25 them as they left the ranch?

26 A. No. I — actually, I don’t know.

27 Q. Okay.

28 A. Not that — I was not told that. 9548

1 Q. All right. You didn’t see any film crew

2 there to follow them when they left the ranch?

3 A. No.

4 Q. All right. Was there anything that would

5 have prevented any guest at the ranch, including

6 Janet Arvizo, from calling 9-1-1 if they had some

7 sort of emergency?

8 A. No.

Silva refuted the media myth that the Arvizos had no way of notifying authorities by confirming that the guest units had phone lines that did not require a code to place calls to people outside of Neverland:

9 Q. And how do you call 9-1-1 from the ranch?

10 A. From the guest units, you immediately

11 receive an outside line, so you could pick up the

12 phone and dial 9-1-1.

13 Q. So the guest units, you don’t even have to

14 use the code?

15 A. No. I haven’t done it for a long time, but

16 from what I believe, you can just pick up the phone

17 and you get an outside line.

18 Q. On some of the other phones, you have to

19 dial a code to get an outside line?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. And that would be true for any kind of a

 

22 call; is that correct?

 

23 A. Correct. We have a — an emergency

 

24 procedure, something that would be similar in a

 

25 hotel room, that shows you how to get out if there’s

 

26 an emergency. It’s near the phone. It gives you

 

27 directions on what to do in the event of an

 

28 emergency. It would be either to call extension – 9549

 

1 the extension at the gate and report whatever the

 

2 problem was.

 

3 Again, I’m not very clear if you can just

 

4 pick up the phone. I’m almost certain you can; that

 

5 you can pick up the phone and dial out and get an

 

6 outside line.

 

7 Q. So let’s put it this way: The phones in the

 

8 guest units may or may not require a code to get an

 

9 outside line?

 

10 A. Correct.

 

11 Q. But if you can make a phone call from the

 

12 guest units one way or the other to Los Angeles, for

 

13 instance, you can call 9-1-1, correct?

 

14 A. Yes.

15 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

16 object to the form of the question in the sense that

17 she says she doesn’t know whether there’s a code to

18 get out or not.

19 THE COURT: Sustained.

20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. If there’s no

21 code, you would just dial 9-1-1, and you get

22 emergency dispatch, right?

23 A. Yes.

24 MR. SNEDDON: Object. Calls for

25 speculation. She doesn’t know.

26 THE COURT: Overruled.

27 Q. BY MR. SANGER: And if the phones in the

28 guest room had the same code as other phones on the 9550

1 ranch, you would dial the outside code and then

2 9-1-1; is that right?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. All right. And my question is, whichever

5 way it worked, if you could make calls to Los

6 Angeles, for instance, from the phone in the guest

7 ranch, you would also be able to call 9-1-1,

8 correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So if somebody knows the code to call an

11 ordinary number, that’s the same code you’d use to

12 get an outside line if you needed it, right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Was there an occasion when Janet Arvizo was

15 supposed to leave the ranch and did not want to go

16 or did not show up?

17 A. I recall a time that the kids left before

18 her, and she left maybe an hour, hour and a half

19 after them. I don’t recall the date, but I

20 remember, leaving, it seemed a little inefficient to

21 me, since they were all leaving, that she wasn’t

22 ready or — I don’t know the reason for her delay,

23 but she didn’t leave the same time they did.

24 Q. What kind of vehicle was there waiting for

25 her?

26 A. I don’t recall the vehicle exactly.

27 Q. All right. Some sort of vehicle that was

28 being chauffeured by someone? 9551

1 A. It could have been a ranch vehicle.

2 Q. But it was being driven by somebody?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. So somebody had the vehicle there and

5 the kids were ready, but Janet wasn’t?

6 A. Right.

The Arvizos were never prevented from leaving Neverland any time that they requested to do so, according to Silva:

7 Q. All right. Let me ask you about the kids,

 

8 that is, the Arvizo children, being allowed to leave

 

9 the ranch. Were they allowed to leave the ranch

 

10 anytime they wanted to?

 

11 A. They were allowed to leave the ranch, but

 

12 they were supervised.

13 Q. All right. Was there a concern about them

14 not being supervised?

15 A. Well, their mother wasn’t there on some

16 occasions, so I would say yes.

17 Q. All right. And when their mother wasn’t

18 there, were they allowed to leave the ranch if they

19 didn’t have an adult with them?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. Let me ask that again. Maybe you

22 meant to say that. But if they didn’t have an

23 adult —

24 A. If they didn’t have an adult, they were not

25 allowed to leave.

26 Q. If there was not an adult?

27 A. They needed to be supervised.

28 Q. Do you recall if that was communicated to 9552

1 the security staff at any time?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And how was it communicated?

4 A. It was directed to me verbally, and it was

5 also a written directive.

6 Q. And who told you that?

7 A. I came in on my shift, and I believe one of

8 my supervisors advised me of the directive and

9 that’s how I was notified.

10 Q. Did the — did the children — you talked to

11 the children from time to time, right?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Did they ever say they wanted to leave —

14 MR. SNEDDON: Object. Calls for hearsay.

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

16 MR. SANGER: I actually didn’t finish the

17 question, but let’s just leave it at that.

18 Q. Did they ever — did the Arvizo children

19 ever say in your presence that they wanted to leave

20 the ranch?

21 A. No.

22 Q. To your knowledge, were they ever prevented

23 from leaving the ranch when they requested it?

24 A. No.

Silva was then asked about a directive to security guards that the Arvizo children were not to leave Neverland without permission; the prosecution use this as “evidence” of a conspiracy to hold the Arvizos hostage, but other security guards who testified earlier in the case stated that the rule applied to ALL children at Neverland. Silva testified that Janet Arvizo never requested to her that she wanted to leave, and had she done so she could have left at any time:

25 MR. SANGER: Now, Your Honor, what I’d like

26 to do is put up Exhibit 334. And this is the one

27 that has multiple pages, so I’m going to refer to

28 MJ00154 as the particular page from Exhibit 334. 9553

1 May I publish that?

2 THE COURT: Yes.

3 MR. SANGER: Thank you.

4 Q. All right. That’s not focusing really well.

5 Can you read it?

6 A. It —

7 Q. I’m going to —

8 A. The 19th of February?

9 Q. Yes. February 19. And I’m going to refer

10 to this line right here. Can you read that line?

11 If you can’t, I’ll bring it up to you so you can

12 read it.

13 A. Yes, I can read it.

14 Q. What does that line say, first of all?

15 A. “The kids are not allowed to leave per Joe.

16 ‘Kids’ meaning like Gavin, Star, et cetera.”

17 Q. Who wrote that there; do you know?

18 A. I believe that was Officer Elenes.

19 Q. So there was — that was an officer who was

20 doing that at whose direction; do you know?

21 A. Per Joe Marcus.

22 Q. And there’s a number, “1752.” So that would

23 be 5:52 in the afternoon?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Do you know if the kids, in fact, left the

26 ranch that same night?

27 A. I’m not sure what time they left.

28 Q. All right. If you look at the gate logs, 9554

1 you could figure that out. We won’t have you do it.

2 They’ve already been introduced.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. So you could tell from the gate logs

5 presumably when they left?

6 A. Yes. I’m sorry.

7 MR. SANGER: All right. All right. We can

8 turn the lights back on.

9 Is that your Post-it?

10 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes.

11 MR. SANGER: That’s yours?

12 Q. And the contacts that you had with Janet

 

13 Arvizo, did she ever indicate to you that she wanted

 

14 to leave?

 

15 A. No.

 

16 Q. And if she indicated she wanted to leave,

 

17 would she have been allowed to leave?

 

18 A. Yes.

 

19 Q. Were you aware as to whether or not

 

20 transportation was arranged for — you mentioned one

 

21 time. Other than that one time, was transportation

 

22 arranged for her to leave the ranch from time to

 

23 time?

 

24 A. Yes.

25 MR. SANGER: All right. May I have just one

26 moment, Your Honor?

27 THE COURT: Yes.

28 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. While the Arvizos 9555

1 were there at the ranch from February to March 2003,

2 did you see them have contact with other guests?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And in particular, Davellin. Did Davellin

5 have contact with other guests?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Who do you recall, if anyone in particular?

8 A. Marie Nicole. Whatever — whatever other

9 guests were there as well. We had quite a few

10 guests during that time period. I can’t recall

11 exactly who was there, but whoever was there, she

12 was involved with them.

13 Q. Did she spend a lot of time with Marie

14 Nicole?

15 A. I believe so. They were two girls, and so

16 they did spend some time together.

17 Q. And did Davellin also spend time with one of

18 the firefighters, firemen, or whatever you call them

19 there? I’m sorry.

20 MR. SNEDDON: Object; lack of foundation.

21 Q. BY MR. SANGER: To your knowledge.

22 THE COURT: Just a moment.

23 MR. SANGER: Let me withdraw it. I’ll say

24 some other words and make it better.

25 THE COURT: Okay.

26 Q. BY MR. SANGER: You said you saw the kids

27 spending time in the security office from time to

28 time? 9556

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Was there anybody in particular, either

3 security or fire person, who Davellin — who you saw

4 Davellin spend time with?

5 A. During that time period, or —

6 Q. February to March of 2003.

7 A. Not anyone particular. I mean, she was

8 there, but I can’t remember anyone specifically.

9 Q. All right. So she spent time with more than

10 one person?

11 A. Well, we’re a staff, and we’re active just

12 as well. So I’m sure in passing, you know, there

13 was a greeting. “Hello, how are you?” that type of

14 thing, or she would come in and ask for something,

15 so —

16 Q. All right. Now, what about the boys? Who

17 would they spend time with, Star and Gavin?

18 A. They would mostly spend time with each other

19 or alone, you know, so — I believe Mr. Brando’s son

20 was there during that time period. So one of the

21 Cascio — the younger Cascio boys was there as well.

22 Q. Did they spend time with the Cascio boys, or

23 one of the boys?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Did they spend time with one of the Brando

26 kids? This must be a grandchild.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. A grandchild of Marlon Brando? 9557

1 A. Shane.

2 Q. Shane. Did they spend time together?

3 A. Yes.

4 MR. SANGER: Okay. Very good. I have no

5 further questions.

6 THE COURT: Cross-examine?

Sneddon began his cross examination of Silva by asking her to recall how often Jackson’s young friends visited Neverland without their parents and slept in Jackson’s bedroom suite:

8 CROSS-EXAMINATION

9 BY MR. SNEDDON:

10 Q. Good morning.

11 A. Good morning.

12 Q. During the time that you were at the ranch,

13 you had a progression of responsibilities that got

14 larger and larger, correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. So you worked there continuously from ‘91?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Until current? You’re a current employee?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And you worked your way up to head of

21 security at one point in time, correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And now you’re — you’ve been — I don’t

24 want to use the wrong term, but you are no longer

25 head of security?

26 A. No.

27 Q. And there’s somebody else who’s head of

28 security out there, correct? 9558

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Now, during this period of time, you met a

3 lot of families that visited the ranch, I would

4 assume, correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you’ve mentioned the Robeson family, the

7 Robson family —

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. — as one of the families.

10 The Culkin family?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. The Barnes family?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And the Chandler family?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. The Cascio family?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. And the Arvizo family are just a few

19 of the ones that visited the ranch, correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. With respect to the Robeson — or Robson

22 family, I’m sorry, after the first visit of that

23 family to the ranch, the father was never there

24 anymore, was he?

25 A. I never met the father.

26 Q. And with regard to the Barnes family, after

27 the Barnes family visited for the very first time,

28 the father was never there at the ranch when they 9559

1 visited, were they — was he?

2 A. The father returned and made visits.

3 Q. How many occasions do you recall Mr. Barnes

4 being on the property?

5 A. From one visit to another? Do you mean

6 separate incidents —

7 Q. Yes, ma’am.

8 A. — or days?

9 I would say at least two or three times

10 afterwards.

11 Q. Now, there were times that Brett Barnes, the

12 young child, that he was at the ranch alone,

13 correct, without any of his parents?

14 A. There could have been a time, yes.

15 Q. There could have been more than one time,

16 couldn’t there?

17 MR. SANGER: Objection; calls for

18 speculation.

19 THE COURT: Sustained.

20 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Do you recall there was

21 more than one occasion when Brett Barnes was on the

22 ranch without any parents being present?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. In fact, he would stay several days at a

25 time on the ranch, correct?

26 A. I wouldn’t — I don’t remember the exact

27 number of days, but I do remember him being there.

28 Q. And when he stayed at the ranch, he stayed 9560

1 in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom, correct, when his mother

2 was not at the ranch?

3 A. I don’t know exactly where he stayed. But

4 he would stay in the main house.

5 Q. So to your knowledge, he was in the main

6 house, but you don’t know where in the main house?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. And when Mr. Robson — not “Mr.,” the child

9 Robson visited the ranch, he was there on occasion

10 without his mother or his father, correct?

11 A. I don’t remember exactly that, but there

12 could have been.

13 Q. When he did, he stayed in the main residence

14 also, correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 MR. SANGER: I’m going to object to the

17 question of “When he did” as assuming facts not in

18 evidence.

19 MR. SNEDDON: Well —

20 MR. SANGER: Or vague.

21 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was,

22 “Yes.”

23 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And you say, with regard to

24 both Brett Barnes and to Wade Robson, that you just

25 know they’re in the house, because the staff was not

26 allowed into the house, correct, the security staff,

27 except if there was an emergency or at Mr. Jackson’s

28 request? 9561

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And you recall the Chandler family, correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you ever recall meeting Mr. Chandler?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Or a Mr. Chandler at all?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Or a husband at all?

9 A. No.

10 Q. And the child’s name was Jordan Chandler,

11 correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You know who I’m talking about when I talk

14 about Jordan Chandler?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And Jordan Chandler visited the ranch on a

17 number of occasions without his mother, correct?

18 A. Again, my recollection is he may have. I’m

19 not sure.

20 Q. And when he did, he stayed in the main

21 house?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And again, you don’t know where he stayed in

24 the main house?

25 A. No.

26 Q. And Macaulay Culkin visited the ranch

27 without his parents, correct?

28 A. I remember him mostly being with his 9562

1 parents, unless he was an adult. He’s been there

2 recently without his parents.

3 Q. Well, I don’t mean — you’re right. I

4 should go back.

5 Between the period of 1991 and 1993,

6 Macaulay Culkin visited the ranch without his

7 parents being present, is that correct, on occasion?

8 A. My recollection is that he was there with

9 his parents.

10 Q. Is it your recollection also that he stayed

11 in the house?

12 A. Yes.

To be continued: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2015/02/08/may-9th-2005-trial-analysis-francin-contreras-gayle-goforth-violet-silva-ramon-velasco-joseph-marcus-part-3-of-4/

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9 Comments leave one →
  1. Jack permalink
    February 9, 2015 7:42 pm

    Clemente is definitely a coward, he can’t and won’t debate the facts because he doesn’t WANT the facts He KNOWS the true facts, but does not want them known, and that is why he blocked you David .As he does to anyone who tries to state the facts .

    As reflected in the known Trolls that he has acquainted himself with. I cannot believe that a so called ”expert” converses with lowlife troll(s) who has /have abused tormented supporters / Fans all over the internet in the most vile form for years, & with numerous twitter accounts and profiles..And all he does is slap ‘it’ on the hand and he says – ”Ok. Just keep it clean. Thx!”

    or – ”can you just chill a bit. I get your point of view but we get our message across better w/ more argument & less attack.Thx!”

    This man has an agenda, and he doesn’t care about the truth. If he did, his response would have been very different, and definitely not ………>”If you weren’t an ass I might actually read your garbage & rip it to shreds. But you are an ass so I won’t. C Ya!”.

    The Fact is, he can’t ”rip it to shreds” because if he could, he would have, but he knows he can’t…And so his only recourse is to block you, and obviously anyone else that challenges him.

    Sorry this is long, but Clemente’s whole debacle has me sickened to the chore.

    • sanemjfan permalink
      February 9, 2015 9:06 pm

      That’s OK! To be honest, I never expected him to have a dialogue with me; I knew he’d block me. But at least I helped expose him for the fraud that he is! Thanks for your support!

      • Jack permalink
        February 10, 2015 7:40 pm

        You are very welcome. You are right, this Clemente fellow uses dialogue unbecoming for a person who should know better & who should show neutrality and not so closed minded.

        He claims to be an ”expert” in his field yet describes or shows no obvious knowledge of either case other than bias and balderdash and if he is faced with the facts he completely shuts people down using verbiage and untruths that he can’t substantiate with the truth or the facts.

        And when faced with that he blocks those who are showing him for what he really is..And it’s so obvious. An ass wipe of the lowest kind who sold their soul and their integrity to the devil as DD and all her accomplices did for the money..as so did so many others.

        Clemente, by doing what he is doing has shot any credibility he may have had to pieces IMO.

        He is a like a ”Dog on heat” to the hater TROLLS.

    • lynande51 permalink*
      March 16, 2015 10:55 pm

      He didn’t block me he followed me ha ha. I am still waiting for him to show me the technology that fried all the hard drives on all the computers that were seized in the search to cover up the child erotica.Then after they were fried Michael’s assistants put 1800 plus adult heterosexual girlie pictures on the same hard drives. Still waiting for that explanation

      • The Edge permalink
        March 17, 2015 8:35 pm

        He also follows Fatfonso. Whats your point lynande51??

        • lynande51 permalink*
          March 17, 2015 9:40 pm

          That he followed me.Did that part not make sense?

  2. Jack permalink
    February 7, 2015 8:34 pm

    Thanks for all the work you and Lynande do, what you do is invaluable. There is a swirl of evil and vile untruths via Clemente at present, I see what he is up to on twitter. Also, It seems the Trolls are basking in his ignorance and lies, and taking advantage.

    I am not on twitter..I am steering clear.. for now, but I can see everything that’s going on..Very strange agenda driven happenings to say the very ,least..

    I await with much anticipation David, your reply to the so called ”expert” who obviously hasn’t a clue about what really happened in 93 much less in 2003..and what he said on twitter.

    ALL your work, both of you and VMJ via Helena, and VMJ2 is invaluable.

    Thank you!

    • sanemjfan permalink
      February 8, 2015 3:41 pm

      Thanks for your support! I challenged Clement to provide facts, and he blocked me! What a coward.

  3. thanks permalink
    February 6, 2015 9:23 pm

    Thank you for allthe great informations! god bless you

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