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The Prophecy For The Defense

March 28, 2015

DSSL/MJ Facts: The Evidence Redux

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The word Redux is often used quasi-humorously to mean that a process has been repeated without being improved. One of our old oppositions has been posting several updates to a “new and improved version” of their site. The most recent contributors is someone that is convinced that Michael was guilty and has submitted a story to MJ Facts once again listing all of the reasons that this person believes the allegations against Michael Jackson are true. Here we are again with the same old tired list of “The Evidence”.

The writer gives us a list that Michael Jackson fans and defenders have heard all too often that led the writer to believe that Michael Jackson was guilty. The contributors list is as follows.

1. Nude books of boys- These are the two books seized by police in 1993.Their titles are Boys Will Be Boys and The Boy: A Photographic Essay- They were entered into evidence on May 5th,2005 just prior to the testimony of Wade Robson.
2. The Semen of two other men was found on the bed
3. Testimony of Blanca Francia.
4. Testimony of Larry Feldman and Stan Katz
5. As Len puts it the nail in the coffin- The description was a match.

So here we are once again refuting all of these nonsensical claims. It isn’t like we haven’t done this before because we have, several times as a matter of fact on VMJ. As a matter of fact there were no less than four entries on VMJ explaining the description alone. There were three on the semen evidence and a summary of Blanca Francia, Larry Feldman and Stan Katz can be found on this blog as well but I guess that wasn’t clear enough.

This time I am writing it and I stopped thinking this was a matter to be handled delicately a long time ago. So the first entry is going to take that proverbial nail out of that proverbial coffin. Here it is for the last time.

Part one:
”The Description” Redux

Soon after Michael Jackson died I was on The Official Michael Jackson Forum. People that were interested in the allegation against him in 1993 were talking about the body search, photos and that they did not match. Most fans on the site were quoting the one article that was published. It was a small short article that said that the description didn’t match. That was all they had.
I made a statement at the time saying that I thought I knew what the discrepancy was and said that I believed that we would find out that Michael was not circumcised when the official autopsy results were release. I remember when the autopsy came out and it showed that he was uncircumcised. Some fans on there posted their amazement that my prediction was correct and wondered how I could have known that.

How did I know that? Well, it’s simple, I am a nurse and if it’s one thing I do know its anatomy and physiology. All nurses have to go through the same training. That training is like a “boot camp” of sorts where you start at the bottom and work your way up step by step. Because of that have given a multitude of bed baths including pericare and placed an equal multitude of French Foley catheters throughout my career. I know what the male genitalia look like and how they work. I also know that in an autopsy on a male circumcision vs intact is a defining feature of male anatomy. And to all you guys out there that say it is a match or are hesitant when it comes to this question, guess what I know about you.

Then came an article on The Smoking Gun. It was titled The Telltale Splotch. This was put up on The Smoking Gun January 6th of 2005 and Gawker wrote about it as well. It had a brief excerpt talking about a splotch and it said he was circumcised. It also states that the Chandler’s OFFERED the description as proof.

Along come the MJ detractors. They came from far and wide proxy servers, like Topix, MJ Facts and DSSL to tell us that they had found a court document where Tom Sneddon swore that it was a match. They said according to the document sworn by Sneddon the police had asked for a description of Michael’s “erect penis” and that it would look the same as an uncircumcised penis. They have no limitations because I have even had one try to tell me that Judge Melville agreed it was a match and gave me a three line quote from the transcript for evidence. I attempted to correct the error by stating the obvious.

1. A Judge is not allowed to opine about evidence presented.
2. A judge must remain neutral.
3. A judge determines the admissibility of the evidence not the veracity of any evidence presented.
4. Because here in the USA it is THE JURY in a Jury trial that is the finder of the facts.

The judge did not “back up” Sneddon’s claim he can’t and I know this because I have had the dubious honor of being called to jury duty 10 times whether I like it or not. Guess what else I know about Tom Sneddon, besides the fact that he was an overzealous and vindictive prosecutor. He doesn’t know foreskin at all.

They continued to argue this point of circumcision with MJ defenders even using the premise that they say no one has heard what his description was for sure because it was never made public. It was or have you forgotten The Smoking Gun? No? Still don’t see it? Fine, here you go. I will show you what that description should have been by listening to Jordan Chandler.

The first thing that I read was the Psychiatric interview with Dr. Gardner. The interview with Dr. Gardner was on October 6th 1993 in New York. It was detailed account of the activities that Jordan Chandler said occurred between Michael and him in 1993. In this account he says this from page 26:

“I don’t know but I can tell you where.”
“Where did it take place?”
“In my father’s house, his Hideout, my mother’s house, and Neverland.”
“Okay, so these are four different places, so obviously it had to happen at least four times. Right?”
“Oh yeah, of course.”
“But I want you to give me a guess – – ”
Okay. More than fifteen, that’s safe. But he had me masturbate him.”
“On how many occasions?”
“About ten. And he said that – – he had me – – he got me to twist one of his nipples while I sucked on the other and he masturbated himself

Now one would expect under those circumstances that Jordan had seen and felt Michael’s penis a minimum of 11 times.

Now let’s move ahead to Jordan Chandler’s Declaration given on December 28th 1993. When you read through it there is actually nothing that would lead one to think that he could give a description. What happened I thought? What happened to the reciprocal touching that one would expect to see because that is what perpetrators expect is gratification from a “returned” touching.

The other thing that I know about victims is that it is incredibly rare for young male victims to exaggerate or embellish the abuse. They are far more likely to minimize it and not be forthcoming about the full extent of it than they are to add things that did not happen or that could be proven not to have happened.

What happened that made this part disappear? Well, Michael Jackson was presented with a search warrant for an examination and photographs of his nude body including genitalia, that’s what happened.
IF Jordan Chandler had done what he said he did in the Psych interview he would have seen this:

Scroll down to see video on lower right side.

Sometimes, a picture is worth a thousand words isn’t it? Jordan should have said Michael Jackson was uncircumcised and Michael would have been arrested because it was a match and the evidence they were looking for with the search warrant would have been found. He would have seen and felt what foreskin does under the conditions that were first listed.

You can tell that their side knew that it wasn’t a match because they had Jordan give another statement excluding any incident that might lead to a description. They were the ones that for years focused on a “spot” that would have moved all over the place and they did that to divert attention away from the obvious. Michael Jackson was not circumcised. Jordan was wrong and he had to omit some very crucial points in the first statement so  you can rightly question any other statement he makes after that.

I know that some will ask why this post was even necessary and I have asked myself the same thing for a long time. I asked because I am quite aware that the contributor of the piece written on MJ Facts was a frequent commenter on DSSL.

Len on DSSL

Which has me puzzled because DSSL had the same link to the same video since late 2010. Didn’t the writer for DSSL share the information with her readers? Or was that when the spin started?

Me on DSSL with link to circumcisioni site


To be continued


This is the entire argument and judges ruling in response to the Blemished Penis. As I have stated above the judge overseeing a case does not opinion on the veracity of the evidence presented. His opinion is only on the admissibility of the evidence. The attorney’s are presenting their arguments and using certain laws of evidence that they say apply to the motion to admit the evidence being argued When Judge Melville in this case agreed with the Defense in this case he was agreeing that the argument the defense made about permitting the evidence was in fact correct.

19 THE COURT: All right. The next issue that

20 we have is the motion to admit evidence concerning

21 Jordan Chandler.

22 Do you wish to be heard on that, Mr.

23 Sneddon?

24 MR. SNEDDON: Mr. Zonen is going to handle

25 that, Your Honor.

26 THE COURT: Mr. Zonen?

27 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I think we’ve

28 adequately stated our position in the pleadings. I 12175

1 can tell you that with regard to the relevance of

2 that material, there was quite a bit of testimony

3 that was presented during the course of the defense

4 case about nothing untoward or inappropriate

5 occurring in Michael Jackson’s bedroom and numerous

6 witnesses who have testified to the fact that many

7 children, particularly back in the 1993, ‘94, ‘92

8 period, who spent not just nights, but weeks and

9 even months in Michael Jackson’s bedroom, in Michael

10 Jackson’s bed, and it was a completely nonsexual

11 event.

12 The fact that this child was able to give a

13 description of a unique feature of his anatomy that

14 could not have been known by him except for a very

15 intimate acquaintance with Mr. Jackson is very good

16 circumstantial evidence of the fact that the

17 relationship between he and at least that child was

18 something more than casual and something more than

19 innocent.

20 In that regard, we’ll submit, unless you

21 have questions.

22 THE COURT: Let me hear from the defense.

23 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.

24 MR. SANGER: I, once again, tried to keep

25 the brief brief. I hope the Court —

26 THE COURT: I appreciate you keeping your

27 briefs brief.

28 MR. SANGER: Yes. I don’t want a lack of 12176

1 volume to suggest that this didn’t take well into

2 the night to get done here. And I don’t want to

3 repeat everything, but I think because it is such an

4 important issue, we’re right at the end of the case,

5 I feel compelled to speak about it just briefly, if

6 I may.

7 First of all, this seems to come directly

8 within the California Supreme Court’s discussion in

9 the Carter case, which basically says it’s not

10 proper to bring in evidence that magnifies evidence

11 that the opposition has not had a chance to meet

12 squarely during the case-in-chief, which we haven’t,

13 because this was not offered, it was not hinted at.

14 It was not even in the original 1108 motion from

15 which the Court made a cut and reduced what they had

16 presented originally. So it wasn’t even in there.

17 I mean, we had no notice to deal with these

18 issues — with this issue at all. So there is

19 certainly unfair surprise, as stated directly in the

20 Carter case.

21 And Carter also says that the Court is

22 supposed to avoid dramatic evidence introduced late

23 in the trial that’s going to have an undue effect.

24 Now, as we pointed out, this was not

25 offered. I mean, this is really a stretch to even

26 come up with any kind of an argument as to why this

27 should — why they could even ask to bring this in.

28 And they’re not asking to bring it in as 1108 12177

1 evidence. They’re asking to bring it in as 1101(b)

2 evidence.

3 And the idea is, I think they’ve said in

4 their pleadings, that this goes to the issue of

5 whether or not Mr. Jackson was shy or modest. Now,

6 that’s not what Mr. Zonen just said when he got up

7 here and argued. I think he shifted the argument a

8 bit, if I’m not mistaken, and talked about things

9 happening in the bedroom.

10 They didn’t offer — I mean, we can’t just

11 keep having a moving target here. They didn’t offer

12 it in their moving papers. They didn’t offer it for

13 that purpose. They offered it on the shy and modest

14 purpose. So it would be 1101(b) evidence on kind of

15 a collateral matter, if it ever happened. But it

16 didn’t happen in this case in the defense.

17 We went through and did a word search on the

18 entire transcript, several different words, “shy,”

19 “modest,” all sorts of things. We found one

20 question that used the word “shy,” not even in this

21 context. It had to do with whether or not a maid

22 saw Mr. Jackson change his shirt. And the objection

23 was sustained to that question. So it was never

24 answered. So it didn’t happen.

25 We also went through and — just to be sure,

26 and read — we read all the testimony from the key

27 witnesses in the defense who might have said

28 something like that if anybody said it. And the 12178

1 only thing we can come up with is an investigative

2 report where the word — I think “shy” — it was

3 either “shy” or “modest,” one of the two was used.

4 We quoted it in there. And it turns out that that

5 was never brought out from that witness on the

6 stand.

7 So it seemed to me that, when I was looking

8 at this, this was a pocket brief the District

9 Attorney had originally prepared in case somebody

10 did this. It didn’t happen. Now they’re trying to

11 bring it in by way of rebuttal, and it would just be

12 absolutely inappropriate as 1101, because it doesn’t

13 rebut anything, okay?

14 What really they’re trying to do, and I

15 think that’s what I heard Mr. Zonen just argue, is

16 they’re trying to argue this is 1108. And it

17 doesn’t meet the criteria for 1108. It doesn’t meet

18 the criteria the Court set down that it would be

19 somebody directly observing something. So it would

20 have the prejudicial effect of the jury considering

21 it, obviously, for 1108 purposes. Because it would

22 be very shocking to see pictures of — anatomical

23 pictures and all that sort of thing.

24 So just from that standpoint, they’ve made

25 no — show no basis. There’s no foundation to admit

26 this as rebuttal, because there’s — they haven’t

27 shown what they’re rebutting under 1101(b). And

28 obviously, if they did that, the prejudice would be 12179

1 so overwhelming, because it would go to the 1108 and

2 it shouldn’t come in for that reason.

3 And as we said before, 1108 — as the Court

4 is well aware, 1108 is a very delicate kind of an

5 issue. The jury is given tremendously prejudicial

6 evidence, that is, prejudicial in the sense that it

7 is propensity evidence, and that propensity

8 evidence — under this weird law we have in

9 California that doesn’t exist most other places,

10 propensity evidence is allowed to come in, but the

11 Court has to exercise discretion in limiting it, so

12 it doesn’t overwhelm the trial. And the Court made

13 those rulings. And to bring this in at this point

14 and emphasize 1108 in rebuttal with something that

15 isn’t even really 1108 evidence would be

16 tremendously prejudicial.

17 But when you get right down to it, the main

18 reason that it has to stay out is it violates

19 Crawford and the confrontation clause. It’s not

20 admissible hearsay. It is testimonial directly

21 under Crawford. This is the kind of stuff that

22 Crawford is talking about, when police officers do

23 interviews, and they get information and they write

24 it down in reports, and then they preserve that and

25 the prosecution wants to bring it in, that violates

26 the confrontation clause. You cannot do that.

27 So you would have a violation of a federal

28 constitutional right were this allowed in, in any 12180

1 event, and so the Court can start at either end.

2 Either just decide it on that and it’s over, or you

3 look at the other end. It’s not proper rebuttal,

4 because there was no evidence to rebut. And under

5 the Carter case, it’s simply dramatic evidence that

6 would be overwhelming at the end of the trial and

7 really, in my opinion, and as we briefed, totally

8 meaningless. There is no probative value. But if

9 there was, by a stretch, it would be on a collateral

10 matter.

11 And so I think — I feel very strongly about

12 this that this is absolutely inappropriate. And I

13 will submit it, Your Honor. Thank you.

14 THE COURT: Mr. Zonen?

15 MR. ZONEN: Just briefly with regards to

16 Crawford. This is not hearsay at all. It’s not an

17 exception to hearsay. It’s not hearsay.

18 The issue is whether or not this child had

19 knowledge of the existence of that particular spot.

20 And the evidence of his knowledge, certainly his

21 ability to draw that picture, would be

22 circumstantial evidence that he knew about it. It

23 would be the equivalent of a child being able to say

24 that a room was green. And he would only know that

25 if he had been in the room. It’s not for the truth

26 of the matter that the room is green. We can show

27 that independently with the photograph as can we

28 show the spot with the photograph. But the fact 12181

1 that a child would know that the room was green

2 would only be knowledge that the child would have

3 circumstantially because he was there or because

4 somebody told him.

5 In this particular case, it’s the type of

6 information that was not commonly available at the

7 time, and circumstantially it would be relevant for

8 the fact that he must have seen that particular

9 spot, and therefore it’s not testimonial. It’s not

10 communication in that regard. It would not fit

11 within Crawford. It’s simply not hearsay.

12 MR. SANGER: And if I may make just one

13 comment on that — I know we shouldn’t go back and

14 forth but —

15 THE COURT: I’d really like you not to do

16 that.

17 MR. SANGER: Very well, Your Honor.

18 THE COURT: I’m going to deny the request to

19 bring in the evidence of the blemished penis. This

20 is the reason: It’s twofold, really. And under a

21 352 analysis, the Court agrees with the defense,

22 that shyness really was not an issue of any

23 proportion. I think you’ve reminded me — I knew

24 there had been some statement somewhere in the trial

25 about shyness, but the — I think you’ve reviewed

26 that with me, and I think I agree with — my

27 recollection now has been refreshed to exactly what

28 that was. But I knew it was only a small thing to 12182

1 start with, if anything. And you’re saying it was

2 actually nothing.

3 But the analysis there would be, even if

4 shyness had been raised as an issue, the prejudicial

5 effect would far outweigh the probative value of the

6 shyness issue. And secondly, I think — even though

7 your analysis is I think correct, I keep going

8 through it, but I think it is not hearsay. I still

9 think Crawford would apply to the ability to

10 cross-examine the boy — or the — you know, Mr.

11 Chandler. He’s not a boy anymore — on that issue,

12 and that’s definitely not available, so that would

13 be my reasoning for excluding that evidence.

14 Was there anything else we needed to discuss

15 before we brought the jury in?

9 Comments leave one →
  1. elizabeth pamela walker permalink
    April 13, 2020 11:42 am

    amen x x

  2. Jan permalink
    June 14, 2016 7:17 am

    the Uk national enquirer is calling Michael a paedophile again in today edition it is a disgrace!

  3. Jack permalink
    April 7, 2015 12:53 pm

    Lynette@ Twitter response to JC – Who are you talking to?

    He is responding to yesterday replies/comments/requests on YT, pls look Here:

  4. Nancy permalink
    March 29, 2015 5:17 pm

    This article is spot on. Nothing ever happened between Michael and Jordy, so the description was a total fabrication. Michael never held back on fighting anybody who accused him of wrongdoing so this incorrect description was 100% all he needed to smash the Chandlers, and later destroy Sneddon’s charges. Even without the photos he could have had one or two independent doctors prepare their own actual descriptions which would have nullified the joke which Sneddon and the Chandlers owned. Hell, even just a doctor’s certificate saying he was uncircumcised would have stopped the accusations dead in their tracks. A few days in each court, at an extreme maximum, would have been all it took for each case, and Michael would have been exonerated forever.

    Yet there was a settlement. We need to ask, why? My theory is that there was and still is someone, or some organization, that needed and still needs Michael to look guilty. I believe they threatened to kill him or someone close to him if he fought this thing so he settled with the Chandlers, thereby making him out to be something he wasn’t. There was no way Michael couldn’t win in a court of law against such an open and shut case. There can be no other explanation.

    • lynande51 permalink*
      March 29, 2015 5:44 pm

      I think he signed the settlement for it to go away for both him and Jordan. That settlement, to me, proves that Michael was much more concerned about Jordan than his own father was. I think that even in this case Michael was more concerned for Jordan than he was for himself. He was always that way with children, all children everywhere. To Michael $15 million was a small price to pay to stop a child from hurting and Jordan was because of what his father did to him with the media onslaught. Michael would do what he could to stop Jordan’s pain even if he had to be hurt himself.
      As for an organization needing Michael to be guilty it is always a possibility. We know now thanks to “Turning The Tables on The Chandler Allegations” blog that Victor Gutierrez was in touch with Evan as early as April of 1993.We found out that he was questioned by the police in LA for two days starting four days after the news broke about Jordan’s accusation. They questioned him for 8 hours a day for two days. They were obviously questioning about something. The story that he is named in is actually about finding out who leaked the police and DCFS report to the press so did they think he might have been the one that did that?
      I know that he probably told them the same story that he told everyone that he was an author that was researching Michael Jackson. I find it incredible that the police had someone, that I strongly suspect is a pedophile, right in front of them, talking to them and he was able to put the focus on Michael Jackson instead of himself. the fact that he could do that tells me that the police and the DA’s were really out to get a big celebrity.

  5. March 29, 2015 5:37 am

    It seems that MJ was being railroaded. Does it matter to anyone who still wants to accuse MJ that Jordan Chandler as an adult, away from his step-father’s influence, admitted that he lied.

    • lynande51 permalink*
      March 29, 2015 7:32 am

      It was his father not his step father that made him do it. His step-father was Dave Schwartz and he actually tried to help prevent the whole thing. That is the taped conversation that he did on July 7th,1993 before Jordan went to his fathers house. It is posted here if you haven’t read it before.
      Evan Chandler was a violent man. He beat Dave Schwartz unconscious, he beat his second wife Nathalie in front of the children on more than one occasion. One was prior to him even knowing Michael Jackson and Jordan was a witness to that. In the book that Ray Chandler wrote he says that Evan once hit his own mother and we all know what he did to Jordan after the 2005 trial.
      That is a pattern of violent behavior. Ray Chandler, in the book, attempts to minimize it and say that he wasn’t abusive because he only did it a few times?
      So if you were 12-13 years old and a man you saw hit people ( that he supposedly loved) told you to do something wouldn’t you? Especially if that person had you in their custody and wouldn’t let you leave?13 year olds don’t problem solve like an adult so who knows what Evan said to Jordan to get him to do this.It took Evan an hour of threats and lies ( they admit this in the book) after sedating Jordan before Jordan relented and told his father what he wanted to hear. Who knows what those threats were that Jordan had to listen to. Even in their version of things it must have been bad because according to them Jordan even said “okay but you won’t hurt Michael will you”. I think he threatened Michaels and or Jordan’s life is what I think and because Jordan problem solved like all other 13 year old boy he did what his father wanted.

      • March 30, 2015 11:39 am

        You are spot on with this- There is no doubt that Jordan was in fear of violent retaliation from his father Evan IF he didn’t file that declaration – His father had complete physical control of him and was defying court orders to return him to June when all the tooth-pulling violence occurred against the boy. . . Anyone who thinks that wasn’t done to drive home the point that Evan was in control and to psychological harm and instill fear in Jordan, needs to really ponder on that point.

  6. March 29, 2015 2:20 am

    Thank you for the article… I’m impressed by your true love for Michael.. I know it is really hard to go through all the haters, dumb people who don’t even listen to the truth. Thank you and god bless you!

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