March 14th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Gavin Arvizo (Cross Examination), Part 2 of 4

Shortly before the court took a short recess, Gavin confirmed to Mesereau that he and his family first started sending Jackson the cards two months into his chemotherapy, and Janet approved of Gavin referring to Jackson as “daddy”:

6 Q. Okay. When did you learn your cancer was in

7 remission.

8 A. June 2001.

9 Q. Okay. And after you learned your cancer was

10 in remission, when is the next time you remember

11 speaking to Michael Jackson.

12 A. When he wanted me to go up and do the Martin

13 Bashir thing.

14 Q. Was that the first time you recall speaking

15 to Michael Jackson after you learned your cancer was

16 in remission.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Okay. These cards that I just showed you,

19 letters and cards, you started sending them shortly

20 after you met Mr. Jackson, correct.

21 A. Well, not really, because I think we — I

22 think I started wanting to send the cards when

23 Michael wasn’t talking to me anymore.

24 Q. When he wasn’t talking to you anymore.

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. And approximately when do you think he

27 wasn’t talking to you anymore.

28 A. Two months into my cancer. 1861

1 Q. Excuse me.

2 A. Two months into my chemotherapy.

3 Q. Approximately when would that be.

4 A. August or September of 2000.

5 Q. Okay. So August or September of 2000, you

6 and your family started sending nice letters and

7 cards to Michael Jackson, correct.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And those are the letters and cards that I

10 showed you a little while ago, right.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And it was your understanding your mother

13 used to send him cards and letters as well, right.

14 A. I think so.

15 Q. And she used to refer to him as “daddy,”

16 didn’t she.

17 A. I don’t think she referred to him as

18 “daddy.”

19 Q. You never heard her say that once.

20 A. Well, toward me, me saying that. Because, I

21 mean, my dad had left. And I started calling him

22 “daddy” after my dad left because I didn’t have a

23 dad.

24 Q. And your mother approved of that, correct.

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. Okay.

27 THE COURT: All right. Let’s take our

28 morning break. 1862

Mesereau continued his cross examination by asking Gavin to describe his surgeries, the extent of his illness, and when his cancer went into remission:

1 THE COURT: All right. You may proceed.

2 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Gavin, I just want to ask

4 you a couple of questions about your illness. Okay.

5 Looking at your medical records, clearly you

6 had a massive amount of tumor, right.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And you had surgery on your spleen, a

9 kidney, the tip of your pancreas, right.

10 A. I don’t know about my pancreas. But they

11 took out my kidney and my spleen.

12 Q. All right. Now, how long after your surgery

13 did you learn you were in remission.

14 A. After my surgery. It wasn’t — you’re not

15 in remission until you’re done with your

16 chemotherapy.

17 Q. Okay. So when were you told your cancer is

18 in remission.

19 A. June 2001.

20 Q. Okay. And when was your surgery, if you

21 know.

22 A. June 2000.

23 Q. Okay. So one year after your surgery, were

24 you told the cancer had disappeared.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Okay.

27 A. June of 2001.

Ironically, Gavin claimed that the doctors were never able to determine exactly what type of cancer he had, so as a result he stated that “I only believe that God gave me this cancer to guide my life in a certain way”. (What a crock of baloney! Read this post about the hypocrisy of Gavin and other enemies of Jackson who have tried to play the religion card to gain sympathy, despite all of their lies and attacks against Jackson!)

28 Q. Now, have you — have you ever learned what 1868

1 kind of cancer it was.

2 A. They didn’t — no one ever knew what kind of

3 cancer it was. That’s why I only believe that God

4 gave me this cancer to guide my life in a certain

5 way —

6 Q. Right.

7 A. — because they — no one — they sent it

8 all over the country and no one could figure out

9 what kind of cancer it was.

10 Q. What I’m asking is this: How long after the

11 surgery did you learn there was no cancer in your

12 body at all. Was it one year.

13 A. It was — well, it’s like they had a CAT

14 scan after my fifth round of chemotherapy.

15 Q. Right.

16 A. And then they said they couldn’t see the

17 cancer anymore, but they said they still had to

18 finish the rest.

19 I asked them, “Why can’t I stop now then.”

20 Because, I mean, I didn’t like taking chemotherapy,

21 because it made me nauseous and a bunch of other

22 stuff.

23 But he said I had to finish the next five,

24 because it could be to where it’s really, really

25 small, to where you can’t see it under a microscope.

26 So they said I had to finish.

In this excerpt, Mesereau tried to ask Gavin if he remembered making a false claim of child abuse against his mother in 1996, but Sneddon objected and Judge Melville sustained his objection, and Mesereau moved on to another topic:

27 Q. Okay. Do you recall — let me rephrase the

28 question. 1869

1 Do you remember in 1996 making a false

2 allegation that your mother abused you.

3 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

4 object to that. 403.

5 THE COURT: Sustained.

Here is a big discrepancy in Star and Gavin’s testimonies, and further proof of just how sexualized they were prior to meeting Jackson! The password that Gavin used to log into his AOL account on the Apple laptop that was given to him by Jackson was “Sexy”, which is hardly what you would expect from someone who claimed to be as ignorant about sex as Gavin claimed to be! Unfortunately, due to Judge Melville’s prior ruling, Mesereau was not allowed to cross examine Gavin on this subject.

Evvy Tavasci, Jackson’s personal secretary, was asked by Gavin to help him set up his AOL account, including changing his password to “Sexy”. A copy of her note which details her conversation with Gavin in 2000 is included on page 35 of the defense pleading titled “NOTICE OF MOTION TO ADMIT EVIDECE OF GAVIN ARVIZO AND STAR ARVIZO’S SEXUAL CONDUCT”.

6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: I asked you some questions

7 about Evvy Tavasci. And she was Michael Jackson’s

8 assistant, right.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And did you talk to her often.

11 A. Yeah.

12 Q. And —

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. — when did you begin talking to her.

15 A. I began talking to her once I — the first

16 time I met Michael, I mean, I would call her

17 sometimes and ask her about stuff. I would talk to

18 her, and I would ask her if she knew where Michael

19 was sometimes, or stuff like that.

20 Q. Well, how many times do you think you

21 telephoned Evvy Tavasci.

22 A. I don’t know. I don’t know how many times I

23 called her.

24 Q. You called her quite often, didn’t you.

25 A. I believe so.

26 Q. And do you know when you began telephoning

27 Evvy.

28 A. When I first met Michael. 1870

1 Q. And did Michael give you her phone number.

2 A. I believe so.

3 Q. Did Michael tell you you could call Evvy

4 when you wanted to.

5 A. Not really. It was — I wasn’t supposed to

6 just call her for a lot of times. Or like — for

7 just like business — well, not really business,

8 but, I mean, stuff like if I wanted to go to

9 Neverland or something like that.

10 Q. I can’t hear what you’re saying.

11 A. If I wanted to go to Neverland or something

12 like that.

13 Q. Okay. Did you think she was your friend.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. Did you think she was a friend of

16 your family.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And did you call her every week.

19 A. No, not really. I mean, we would call her

20 sometimes, but I don’t know if it was every week.

21 Q. You mentioned that she had helped you set up

22 an AOL account on the computer that Michael Jackson

23 gave you, right.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And approximately when did she set up that

26 account, if you know.

27 A. After Michael had given me the computer.

28 Michael told me that he wanted to get me Internet 1871

1 for the computer, so he told me just like — that’s

2 the kind of stuff I’m talking about to call Evvy, to

3 call Evvy and she would help me set it up.

4 Q. When you called Evvy to help set up that

5 account, were you recovering from cancer.

6 A. No. I was in the middle of it — I mean, I

7 just started.

8 Q. Excuse me, I couldn’t understand that.

9 A. I just started chemotherapy.

10 Q. Okay. So you had just started chemotherapy

11 when you first began talking to Evvy.

12 A. Because the first time I went up to

13 Neverland he gave me the computer, so that’s when he

14 told me that he wanted me to get Internet. So when

15 I came back, that’s when I set it up, came back to

16 my house. That’s when I set up the Internet.

17 Q. So you came back to your house with a

18 computer that Michael Jackson had given you, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. You called Evvy to help set up an AOL

21 account, right.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. You wanted an Internet account, correct.

24 A. I thought it would be cool if I had one.

25 Q. Okay. And Michael Jackson ended up paying

26 for that, true.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Okay. And you requested a screen account 1872

1 name, right.

2 A. Well, I didn’t request it. Well, it’s

3 because I have the computer and they were telling me

4 what to do. And I put my name in — I put the

5 screen name I wanted in there.

6 Q. Okay. You put the screen name you wanted in

7 there.

8 A. Yeah. Like there’s — well, when you have

9 the CD and you’re setting it up, like it tells you

10 to do all the things, and —

11 Q. Right.

12 A. — there’s a point where they have you put

13 in what screen name you want.

14 Q. Right.

15 A. And I put the screen name that I wanted in

16 there.

17 Q. Did you do this right after you returned

18 home with the computer Michael Jackson had given

19 you.

20 A. Probably not right after. Maybe a few days

21 after.

22 Q. Okay. And was this one of the first things

23 you did when you got home.

24 A. No. Because it was a few days after I got

25 home.

26 Q. Okay. So a few days after you returned from

27 your first trip to Neverland, you tried to set up an

28 AOL account on the computer that Mr. Jackson had 1873

1 given you, right.

2 A. Yes, I did set up an AOL account.

3 Q. Was that the first computer you’d ever

4 owned.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Was it the first computer you’d ever used.

7 A. No, because I — no.

8 Q. Explain — let me rephrase that.

9 When did you first learn to use a computer.

10 A. In the first grade.

11 Q. Okay. Did you own a computer at any time

12 before Mr. Jackson gave you the computer.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Okay. But you knew how to use one, correct.

15 A. I wasn’t like a cyber guy, but I knew how to

16 generally use a computer.

17 Q. You knew what an AOL account was, right.

18 A. Not really. They told me.

19 Q. But you immediately started to set one up

20 when you got home with the computer Mr. Jackson gave

21 you, right.

22 A. Not when I got home. A few days later.

23 Q. You called up Evvy about setting up that

24 account, right.

25 A. Yeah. Because — well, yeah. Yeah.

26 Q. And you requested a screen account name of

27 gblade2000 —

28 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that. 1874

1 THE COURT: Sustained.

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember the

3 password — excuse me, let me rephrase that. Do you

4 remember the prosecutor asked you questions about

5 passwords.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And do you remember you talked about what

8 passwords you wanted.

9 A. Not — to the prosecutor.

10 Q. Yeah. Did you say something about “hawk”.

11 A. Oh, I told him that one of my screen names

12 that I had was whitehawk344.

13 Q. Please tell the jury what a screen name is.

14 A. It’s on the Internet. You have like a name

15 that you go by, and that’s the screen name.

16 Q. Do you remember asking Mrs. Tavasci to

17 change the password to “sexy,” s-e-x-y.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

19 object again. This is in violation of the Court’s

20 order.

21 THE COURT: Sustained; that is a violation.

22 The jury’s admonished to disregard that.

23 You’re instructed not to go into that.

Did you notice that Gavin said that he didn’t set up his internet until a few days after he got home from Neverland? Well, according to Star, it was set up while they were at Neverland! Here’s an excerpt from his cross examination:

7 Q. You told them Michael Jackson and Frank

8 showed you and your brother a site on the computer,

9 right.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. You told them it was a site like AOL, right.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You knew what AOL was when you mentioned

14 that, didn’t you.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Why did you just tell the jury you didn’t

17 know.

18 A. I knew it after my brother was — was, I

19 don’t know, I don’t know, was connected or — I

20 don’t know the word, but when he was — because when

21 Michael gave him the laptop, he had someone call him

22 and set up an AOL account for my brother for his

23 laptop.

And here is when, under direct examination, Star stated that it was Gavin’s computer that they used to view online pornography on!  Later on in this post, you’ll see Gavin testify that it was Frank’s computer that they used to view online porn.

18 Q. Now, when you went into the bedroom area,

19 who all was there.

20 A. Frank, Michael, me and my brother.

21 Q. Anybody else.

22 A. Oh, Prince and Paris were there also.

23 Q. Now, when did Prince and Paris come into the

24 picture.

25 A. They were also there. They were also with

26 us on the kitchen raid, when we went to go get food.

27 Q. Now, when you got upstairs and you’re in the

28 room, what happened then. 1037

1 A. They were asleep on the bed, and Frank had a

2 computer. It was a computer that Michael gave him

3 the first time.

4 Q. Gave who.

5 A. Gave Gavin.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. And this time it already had Internet

8 access, so Frank did something and the Internet was

9 on, and we started going on sites.

10 Q. Going on sites.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What kind of sides.

13 A. Pornography sites.

14 Q. And where was Mr. Jackson during this time.

15 A. He was sitting right next to us.

  

Mesereau then switched gears and asked Gavin how he learned the codes to open the combination locks at Neverland, and he claimed that Jackson gave him the codes. He also failed to include the wine cellar in the list of rooms at Neverland that he had entered when Jackson wasn’t present:

25 Q. Let me ask you questions about the alarm

26 system.

27 Do you recall the alarm system at Neverland.

28 A. I remember an alarm system that was up at — 1875

1 where like you would see — where you would — this

2 one house where they put all this stuff in, like his

3 awards and his gloves, and stuff like that.

4 Q. When did you first learn about the alarm

5 system at Neverland.

6 A. Well, he had passwords and stuff, so I’m

7 pretty sure those were alarm systems.

8 Q. And when did you first see an alarm system

9 at Neverland.

10 A. I saw the code things, but I never really

11 saw the alarm system.

12 Q. Now, what code things are you talking about.

13 A. The code that you push so the doors would

14 open.

15 Q. And how did you learn about those codes.

16 A. We’d go into the main house, Michael gave me

17 a code, I guess that’s what I learned about it.

18 Q. Do you remember the number of the code he

19 gave you.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Do you remember any of the code numbers at

22 Neverland.

23 A. I remember the code to his room.

24 Q. What was the code number to his room.

25 A. I’m pretty sure it was like 1960.

26 Q. And approximately when did you learn that

27 code number.

28 A. I didn’t learn that until after I came back 1876

1 from Miami.

2 Q. Had you ever been — excuse me. Had you

3 ever learned any code number at Neverland before you

4 got back from Miami.

5 A. Yes. They — when I was visiting the first

6 time, they told me the code to the main house.

7 Q. Who is “they”.

8 A. It was either Michael or the maids.

9 Q. Did you ever ask anybody for the code at

10 Neverland.

11 A. Yeah, I would ask Michael.

12 Q. And did you ever ask anybody else.

13 A. Well, not really. I mean, I would ask the

14 maids sometimes when I would forget the code and

15 they would remind me. But when I would ask — like

16 when I didn’t know the code at all, and I would

17 first ask, I would usually ask Michael.

18 Q. Did you ever ask any security person any

19 code number.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Did you ever see your brother or sister ask

22 any security person for any code number.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you recall having the code to get into

25 Michael’s room.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Do you recall having the code to get into

28 any other room at Neverland. 1877

1 A. No.

2 Q. Never did.

3 A. No. I think those are the only two.

4 Q. Do you recall ever going into any room at

5 Neverland when Michael Jackson wasn’t present,

6 besides his bedroom.

7 A. I mean, there’s a lot of rooms there. I

8 don’t — maybe we’d go in the arcade and play video

9 games. I don’t know if that counts.

10 Q. What rooms at Neverland have you been into

11 when Michael Jackson was not present.

12 A. The theater. The main house. My unit. The

13 train house — the train station. I guess that’s

14 it.

15 Q. Are they the only rooms you ever went into

16 when Michael Jackson wasn’t present.

17 A. Oh, maybe the library, too.

In this excerpt, Mesereau questions Gavin about whether he had ever been into the rooms of Prince and Paris when Jackson wasn’t present, and Gavin dug himself into a hole by stating that he once helped Nanny Grace Rwambra teach Prince during one of their tutoring sessions:

 4 Q. Did you ever go into Paris’s room at

5 Neverland when Michael Jackson was not present.

6 A. I don’t think I did. I mean, because their

7 room is like — because you could walk through the

8 doll room and just go right to the upstairs. So, I

9 mean, their room wouldn’t really be a room that you

10 can really walk through. So, I mean, I don’t think

11 I ever went into that when they weren’t there.

12 Q. Are you sure.

13 A. I’m pretty sure.

14 Q. Okay. Is Prince’s room near Paris’s room.

15 A. No, I don’t think so. I think they’re

16 like — both doors are like in two different corners

17 of the whole upstairs thing.

18 Q. Have you been in every room in the main

19 house.

20 A. Um, I believe so.

21 Q. And why do you believe so.

22 A. Because I was there a long time, you know,

23 when Paris was there — or when Prince and Paris

24 were there, and, like, I was there one time when

25 they were getting ready to go to bed. I would walk

26 through the doll room, and then I would go up to

27 where the train thing was, and then they were having

28 their class one time that — Grace was teaching 1879

1 them. And then I went up there, and I was — I

2 think I was teaching Prince something. I was

3 helping Grace. And —

4 Q. Were you helping Grace teach —

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. — the children.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Where were you helping Grace teach.

9 A. I don’t know. It was probably — I don’t

10 even think I was really helping them. I think I was

11 helping them with a puzzle or something.

12 Q. With a puzzle.

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. You said you were helping with homework or

15 something along those lines, right.

16 A. Well, I was helping with their schooling.

17 Q. With their schoolwork.

18 A. With their schooling.

19 Q. Please tell the jury what help you were

20 giving Grace as far as the children’s schooling is

21 concerned.

22 A. It wasn’t really, like, teaching, like you

23 wouldn’t say, “This and this equals this,” or

24 whatever. I was just like — like Prince might have

25 been doing a drawing, and I was — I was talking to

26 him about it, and I was saying, “Well, it’s really

27 nice,” and — or like they might have been doing a

28 puzzle, and I would be helping them do it or 1880

1 something like that.

2 Q. Did you do that more than once.

3 A. I think I only did that once.

4 Q. Okay. And did you ask Grace if you could

5 help out before you did that.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And she said “yes”.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. How long was that session.

10 A. Well, I think their school is only like

11 three hours. But, I mean, I think I was only in

12 there for, like, 30 minutes to an hour.

13 Q. Okay. And was it your understanding that

14 Michael Jackson’s children do their schooling at

15 Neverland.

16 A. I — I — I thought that wherever — I

17 thought Grace would teach them, and then Grace would

18 go wherever they go, so I guess it would be

19 anywhere.

20 Q. And was this teaching going on in one of the

21 children’s bedrooms.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Where was it going on.

24 A. It was upstairs, like in the little playroom

25 place.

26 Q. Well, there’s a room upstairs which has

27 school materials, right.

28 A. Yes. 1881

1 Q. And what school materials have you seen in

2 that room.

3 A. I saw this little tiny chalkboard, and then

4 like these big floor piece puzzles, and — I don’t

5 really remember.

6 Q. But you’ve seen schoolbooks in there,

7 correct.

8 A. No, I don’t think so.

9 Q. Well, that’s where the children do their

10 schooling, as far as you know, right.

11 A. No. I said that I think whenever Grace

12 wants to teach them, that’s where they do their

13 schoolwork.

14 Q. Okay. But you’ve seen blackboards, you’ve

15 seen school materials; correct.

16 A. I said I saw a little kid blackboard, but I

17 don’t even think Grace was using it.

18 Q. Okay. But the room you’re talking about is

19 not one of the children’s bedrooms, correct.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay. Now, was that the first time you’d

22 been in that room.

23 A. No.

24 Q. When was the first time you went through

25 that room.

26 A. I mean, because the room wasn’t really a

27 classroom. I mean, per se. They would use it as a

28 classroom. There would be stuff there. There would 1882

1 be — to use as a classroom. There was like this

2 video game thing there. I think it was in that

3 room. And I think it might have been in the same

4 room as the big train thing.

5 Q. Was it your understanding that Michael’s

6 children are tutored in the main house.

7 A. My understanding was that they are tutored,

8 but I don’t know where.

9 Q. Okay. Okay. But you don’t think it’s in

10 that particular room you just described.

11 A. It probably was. I mean, I’m saying

12 wherever Grace wanted it, they could have it,

13 because it’s not like she had a set classroom. It’s

14 not like they’re going to New York and they’re going

15 to come back to Neverland to do their classing,

16 their schooling.

17 Q. Do you remember approximately when you

18 helped Grace tutor the children.

19 A. Probably after I came back from Miami.

20 Q. Okay. Wasn’t before then.

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. Did you see the children tutored the

23 first time you went to Neverland.

24 A. No. That was the only time I ever saw them,

25 really.

Mesereau next began to question Gavin about the bedroom alarms outside of Jackson’s bedroom, and Gavin admitted that they could be heard from inside the second floor of the bedroom, which is a stark contradiction to Star’s claim that they could not be heard from inside Jackson’s bedroom, which is how he was able to observe Jackson abusing Gavin!

11 Q. Do you recall ever being in Michael

12 Jackson’s bedroom and hearing the alarm go off.

13 A. The little “dee-do, dee-do” thing.

14 Q. Yes.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. Approximately when was that.

17 A. I don’t know. After Miami. I mean, but

18 it’s — because — I mean, when you’re up in his

19 bedroom, like you can hear it, but it’s not as good

20 as if you’re downstairs, but you can still kind of

21 hear it.

Here is what Star said about his so-called inability to hear the bedroom alarms from the inside of Jackson’s bedroom under cross examination on March 8^th, 2005:

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Arvizo, did Mr.

15 Jackson ever tell you that the reason that alarm

16 system goes off is to let him know if anyone is

17 trying to enter his bedroom.

18 A. No.

19 Q. So you were not aware of that.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay. You have heard that alarm system go

22 off when you were upstairs, haven’t you.

23 A. When the doors open.

24 Q. Yes. You’re saying when the door’s closed,

25 Michael Jackson can’t hear the alarm system.

26 A. No.

27 Q. Is that what you’re saying.

28 A. Yes. 1207

Next, Gavin was asked by Mesereau about the aftermath of the Bashir documentary, and as Gavin complained about an incident where one of Jackson’s security guards was stalking his family, Mesereau asked if it was because Janet Arvizo had requested security after being hassled by tabloid reporters, and Gavin denied it at first, but then conceded that he really didn’t know if his mother requested security:

22 Q. Okay. When you were initially interviewed

23 by the sheriffs, you were asked about what happened

24 after the Bashir documentary was on television,

25 right.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Now, when did you first hear about the

28 Bashir documentary that appeared on television. 1884

1 A. On the news and from Michael.

2 Q. Were you watching the news at home when you

3 first heard about it.

4 A. I didn’t really know that it was the Bashir

5 documentary per se. But I knew that they were

6 talking about kids sleeping in his room or whatever.

7 Q. Well, you mentioned to the sheriffs about

8 people coming to your house and bothering you,

9 right.

10 A. Yes. I think so.

11 Q. And when did that first start.

12 A. I think after we came back from Neverland.

13 Q. Okay. You say after you came back from

14 Neverland. When was that.

15 A. I don’t know. I’m not sure.

16 Q. Well, when you told the sheriffs that people

17 were coming to your house and bothering you, what

18 were you referring to.

19 A. Well, one time we caught one of Michael’s

20 security guys that we thought he was standing in —

21 trying to stand behind a car, and then my stepdad

22 went out and was like — asked him what he was

23 doing, and then we saw him run, and —

24 Q. Well, your mother had asked for security

25 because she said your family was being hassled,

26 didn’t she.

27 A. I don’t know if she asked him or — who are

28 you saying that she asked. 1885

1 Q. You never heard your mother say she wanted

2 some security because your family was being hassled.

3 A. No, I knew that she didn’t like it, but, I

4 mean, I don’t know if she asked for security.

Mesereau caught Gavin in another huge lie when he specifically asked Gavin if he had ever spoken with comedian Jay Leno, to which Gavin emphatically denied that either he or his family ever spoke with the comedian. However, Mesereau claimed in his opening statement that Gavin called Leno, and with his mother Janet in the background, began to offer overly effusive praise and admiration to Leno, which made Leno uncomfortable. After hearing in the background what he thought sounded like Janet pressuring Gavin to ask him for money, Leno hung up the telephone!

When asked by Mesereau about when he met with Sneddon about the possibility of being questioned about Jay Leno, Gavin said he and Sneddon didn’t meet to discuss Jay Leno until “a day or two” before his direct examination! Gavin was never asked about Leno during his police interviews or his grand jury testimony, and he denied speaking with Leno (although it will be proven later on in this trial that he did speak with him.)

13 Q. When you were responding to Prosecutor

14 Sneddon’s questions, do you remember discussing Jay

15 Leno.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Now, isn’t it true that in none of your

18 interviews with the sheriffs and never when you

19 testified before the grand jury on two occasions did

20 you ever mention Jay Leno, correct.

21 A. Yes. Because I thought he didn’t have

22 anything to do with this case.

23 Q. Did Prosecutor Sneddon tell you at some

24 point that Mr. Leno had something to do with the

25 case.

26 A. Yes. Well, he asked me about what I know

27 about Jay Leno and how I came about to have him in

28 my — well, not really have him, but, I mean, how 1888

1 he — I don’t know how to say it. Like, he pretty

2 much just asked me what I know about Jay Leno.

3 Q. Did Prosecutor Sneddon tell you that I had

4 mentioned Jay Leno in this courtroom.

5 A. No.

6 Q. Did he tell you how the name Jay Leno had

7 come up in the case.

8 A. No.

9 Q. When did Prosecutor Sneddon first mention

10 the name Jay Leno to you.

11 A. Well, actually, it wasn’t really —

12 Mr. Sneddon was there, but I believe it was — I

13 don’t remember who exactly asked me, but I remember

14 him being there, and I remember Mr. Sneddon shaking

15 his head, but I don’t think it was Mr. Sneddon that

16 actually asked me.

17 Q. Do you know approximately when this meeting

18 took place.

19 A. Before I even — maybe a day or two before I

20 first came to testify here.

21 Q. So it was after this trial had started,

22 right.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. And did Mr. Sneddon call you on the

25 phone to discuss this.

26 A. No. I met with him.

27 Q. Okay. Did someone ask you to come meet with

28 Mr. Sneddon. 1889

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Who was that.

3 A. I don’t remember. I remember they told me

4 that I was going to, but I don’t remember who

5 exactly.

6 Q. Do you remember where the meeting took

7 place.

8 A. In a house.

9 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Sneddon ask you to testify

10 that Jay Leno was your favorite comedian.

11 A. No.

12 Q. Okay. When did the idea that Jay Leno was

13 your favorite comedian come up in this case.

14 A. Well, Jay Leno was my favorite comedian, but

15 I don’t really understand what —

16 Q. Do you remember calling Jay Leno on the

17 telephone.

18 A. I remember calling — yeah, I remember

19 calling his phone.

20 Q. Do you remember speaking with Jay Leno on

21 the telephone.

22 A. No, I never spoke with Jay Leno.

23 Q. At any time.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Did you ever try to reach Jay Leno on the

26 telephone.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And who did you call, if you know. 1890

1 A. I called a phone number that I was given.

2 Q. Where did you get the phone number.

3 A. It was either Jamie Masada or Louise

4 Palanker.

5 Q. Did you dial the number.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Was your mother with you.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Was anybody in the background.

10 A. Well, when I called him, I’m pretty sure

11 that I was in the hospital, so either it could have

12 been my dad, or maybe a nurse that would come in to

13 do my vital signs or something.

14 Q. And you dialed the number, right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And do you have any idea who answered the

17 phone.

18 A. Answering machine.

19 Q. And did you ever actually get Mr. Leno on

20 the phone.

21 A. No.

22 Q. So you deny you’ve ever spoken to him on the

23 phone, right.

24 A. I’ve never spoken to Jay Leno.

25 Q. Okay. You never mentioned Mr. Leno to

26 Psychologist Stanley Katz, right.

27 A. No, I don’t think so.

28 Q. And you never mentioned Mr. Leno to 1891

1 Lieutenant Klapakis during any interview, correct.

2 A. No, I’ve never mentioned Jay Leno to

3 anybody. Except —

4 Q. I’m sorry.

5 A. Except for when they asked me what I know

6 about Jay Leno.

7 Q. To your knowledge, did anybody in your

8 family contact, or try to contact, Mr. Leno while

9 you were ill.

10 A. No. Because I was the only one with the

11 phone number.

12 Q. Did you ever give it to your mother.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Ever give it to your father.

15 A. No.

16 Q. Ever give it to Star.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Ever give it to your sister Davellin.

19 A. Her name is Davellin. But, no, I never gave

20 it to her.

21 Q. Okay. You left a message on his machine,

22 correct.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Did you ever get a call back from anyone

25 claiming they represented Mr. Leno.

26 A. No.

27 Q. All right. So what you’re saying is if

28 anybody spoke to Mr. Leno and said they were you, it 1892

1 was certainly a false statement, right.

2 MR. SNEDDON: Object as argumentative, Your

3 Honor.

4 THE COURT: Sustained.

5 THE WITNESS: I never spoke to —

6 THE COURT: Just a moment.

7 Next question.

8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Has Prosecutor Sneddon

9 ever discussed with you his conversation with Mr.

10 Leno.

11 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, object. Assumes

12 facts not in evidence.

13 THE COURT: Sustained. Assumes facts not in

14 evidence.

15 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it, Your Honor.

16 Q. Has Prosecutor Sneddon ever told you that he

17 had a conversation with Jay Leno about this case.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Has Prosecutor Sneddon ever told you that

20 any Santa Barbara sheriff had a conversation with

21 Jay Leno about this case.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Never told you that at all.

24 A. No.

Here is what Mesereau had to say about Gavin’s phone call to Leno during his opening statement:

24 First of all, the Arvizo family is from Los

25 Angeles. We are going to bring in witnesses to tell

26 you about their behavior. For example, Janet and

27 Gavin called Comedian Jay Leno and tried to get

28 money from Mr. Leno. Mr. Leno has told the Santa 124

1 Barbara police, “Something was wrong. They were

2 looking for a mark. It sounded scripted. The

3 mother was in the background, and I terminated the

4 conversation.”

14 In the fall of 2000, just as they were

15 visiting Neverland, they hustled Jay Leno, George

16 Lopez, and Weatherman Fritz Coleman in Los Angeles.

17 I’ve explained to you the approach to Jay Leno, who,

18 by the way, doesn’t associate with Michael Jackson

19 at all. And he told the Santa Barbara police

20 something was wrong. The conversation was recorded.

21 They got on the phone. Mr. Leno says, “I’m actually

22 easier to reach than a lot of people think,

23 particularly if I hear somebody’s in need.” It was

24 Gavin calling him, not Janet. But he said, “I could

25 hear the mother in the background. And the way he

26 approached me, saying, ‘I love you, I watch you late

27 at night,'” suggested to him something was wrong.

28 And he terminated the conversation fairly 139

1 quickly. He told the police they were looking for a

2 mark.

In this excerpt, Gavin claimed that he never spoke with his brother Star about the alarm system outside of Jackson’s bedroom, and that he had never been inside of Jackson’s bedroom when Jackson wasn’t there. Notice how he once again confirms that he heard the alarms when he was inside of Jackson’s bedroom:

25 Q. Okay. Did you hear the alarm in Michael

26 Jackson’s bedroom more than once.

27 A. The little “dee-do” sound.

28 Q. The alarm. 1893

1 A. Yeah, like when Frank would come in or

2 something, you could hear it.

3 Q. You could hear the alarm go off.

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. How many ringing sounds would you hear.

6 A. It would go like three times, “dee-do,

7 dee-do,” like three times. And that’s how many

8 ringing sounds it was.

9 Q. Have you ever discussed that alarm system

10 with your brother Star.

11 A. Probably. I don’t know.

12 Q. Did you talk to your brother Star about what

13 he said about the alarm system in this courtroom.

14 A. No.

15 Q. Have you discussed with your brother Star

16 anything you said in this courtroom.

17 A. No.

18 Q. How many times do you think you entered

19 Michael Jackson’s bedroom when Mr. Jackson wasn’t

20 there.

21 A. I never went inside his room when he wasn’t

22 there.

23 Q. To your knowledge, did your brother ever go

24 into his room when he wasn’t there.

25 A. I don’t think my brother went into his room

26 when he wasn’t there.

27 Q. Okay. So you have no knowledge of him doing

28 that, correct. 1894

1 A. No.

However, Azja Pryor, the ex-girlfriend of Chris Tucker and daughter of the late Richard Pryor, stated in this 2009 interview that Gavin and Star both begged to be let into Jackson’s bedroom while he was away, and according to the prosecution’s timeline, this was after the alleged abuse had started!

Star Arvizo claimed that he and Gavin did indeed go into Jackson’s room when he wasn’t there, and they were asked to leave! Here is an excerpt from his direct examination:

20 Q. Okay. You gave a description of Michael’s

21 bedroom to the jury yesterday, right.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And what did you tell the jury you’d find on

24 the first floor.

25 A. The first floor.

26 Q. Yes. The first floor of Michael’s bedroom,

27 yes.

28 A. The room to the right or to the left. 1275

1 Q. Let’s take the room to the left. What do

2 you see in the room to the left.

3 A. All the way to the left.

4 Q. Yes.

5 A. There’s like — there’s a counter with a

6 bunch of perfumes and colognes. There’s a mirror.

7 There’s another big mirror behind it. There’s

8 speakers. There’s a bunch of electric razors in a

9 drawer. There’s a big bathtub, Jacuzzi-type thing.

10 There used to be a reclining chair there. It

11 wasn’t — you couldn’t — it was — it was like a

12 square cushion, and there was a cushioned chair, and

13 there’s a dresser. There’s a door with a small —

14 with a toilet in there. There’s glass doors all the

15 way to the end. There’s a big safe in there. What

16 else. There’s a — yeah.

17 Q. And how about the room to the right.

18 A. All the way to the right, there’s another

19 counter with a bunch of stuff on it. There’s a

20 poster of Harry Potter and his two friends. There’s

21 a rest room all the way, if you keep walking down,

22 with a shower. There’s a closet to your left with a

23 bunch of clothes and a bunch of souvenirs from other

24 movies.

25 There’s — when you first walk in, there’s a

26 closet with a bunch of pajamas. And if you go to

27 your left, there’s the stairs going up.

28 What else is there. There’s a — that’s it. 1276

1 Q. You and your brother were caught in that

2 room when Michael Jackson wasn’t even at Neverland,

3 weren’t you.

4 A. To sleep, yeah.

5 Q. You and your brother used to go into that

6 room when Michael wasn’t even at Neverland, right.

7 A. Yes, Michael opened his room up to us so we

8 could sleep there while he was gone.

9 Q. You were actually asked to leave that room

10 when you were caught during a time when Michael

11 wasn’t even at Neverland, right.

12 A. No.

13 Q. And you and your brother rummaged through

14 every room in that bedroom area, correct.

15 A. No.

16 Q. You went snooping around the entire bedroom

17 area when Michael wasn’t even there, correct.

18 A. No.

19 Q. You went into that closet when Michael

20 wasn’t even there, correct.

21 A. No.

22 Q. How do you know there are pajamas in the

23 closet.

24 A. Because Michael showed us.

25 Q. So Michael was showing you every little bit

26 of the bedroom.

27 A. No, he just showed us where the pajamas

28 were. 1277

1 Q. And you were never caught in there and asked

2 to leave; is that what you’re saying.

3 A. Yes.

Next, Gavin was asked about the online pornography that Jackson and Frank Cascio allegedly showed him on his first night at Neverland in 2000, and Gavin stated that he couldn’t really remember whose computer was used to look at online porn during his first visit to Neverland in 2000, but he said it was “probably” Frank’s computer (which was a Sony). However, Star testified that it was the computer that Jackson had given to Gavin (which as an Apple) that was used to watch online porn!

16 Q. Okay. You testified that Michael Jackson

17 and Frank showed you a computer and went to websites

18 with naked women, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And approximately when was that.

21 A. That was like on the first night that we

22 were inside his room that we were going to go to

23 sleep.

24 Q. And you said it was like an Apple computer;

25 is that right.

26 A. I’m not sure, because I don’t remember — I

27 think it was Frank’s computer because — it wouldn’t

28 be mine, because I didn’t set up the AOL account 1895

1 until, like, after I came back, so it was probably

2 Frank’s computer.

3 Q. Was your computer an Apple computer.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. You told the sheriffs that it was

6 either your computer or Frank’s computer during one

7 of your interviews, right.

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. Was Frank’s computer an Apple computer.

10 A. I think it was probably a Sony computer.

11 Q. And you told the sheriffs that Frank started

12 looking at girls on those sites, right.

13 A. He started, like, typing up stuff, yes.

14 Q. Pardon me.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And did he ask you to join in.

17 A. No, well, he was — he had it on his bed and

18 he set it up, and there were — well, Frank was

19 typing in stuff and looking. And me, Michael and my

20 brother were there.

21 Q. Is that when you say that Michael Jackson

22 looked at a naked girl on the computer and said,

23 “Got milk.”

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Okay. Now, to your knowledge, did Michael

26 Jackson or Frank ever show you a website on a

27 computer like that at any other time.

28 A. I don’t think so. 1896        

1 Q. Was that the only time.

2 A. I believe so.

3 Q. Okay. And Frank’s the one who initially was

4 pressing the buttons to look up the site, correct.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. You also testified that at some point

7 Michael Jackson showed you some girlie magazines,

8 right.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And I believe you mentioned Hustler and

11 Playboy to the sheriffs, right.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. You also testified that at some point

14 Michael Jackson pretended that he was having sex

15 with a female mannequin, right.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay. And you also told the jury that at

18 some point Michael Jackson mentioned the word

19 “clitoris,” or “clitoris,” right.

20 A. I don’t think I did.

21 Q. Did you testify to that.

22 A. (Shakes head from side to side.)

23 Q. Ever tell the sheriffs that.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Okay. And your testimony to the jury is

26 that after Michael Jackson showed you women on

27 websites, after he showed you Hustler and Playboy,

28 which are girlie magazines, and after he pretended 1897      

1 to have sex with a female mannequin, he then at some

2 point masturbated you; is that correct.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Is that what you told the sheriffs.

5 A. Yes, I told the sheriffs about that.

In this excerpt, which would wind up having a very significant effect on the jury, Gavin admitted that he felt abandoned by Jackson, who had cut off communications with him after his cancer went into remission:

10 Q. Okay. Now, you complained to the Santa

11 Barbara Sheriffs that, “After I was done with my

12 cancer stuff,” you never saw Michael again, right.

13 A. No, not until the Martin Bashir thing.

14 Q. Okay. And you wanted to see him after you

15 were in remission, correct.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You wanted to visit Neverland after you were

18 in remission, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And you felt in some way that Michael had

21 cut off the friendship, right.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. You felt he had abandoned you, right.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And you felt he had abandoned your family,

26 right.

27 A. Yes.

24 Q. You indicated at the Hilton you watched

25 music videos with Mr. Jackson, right.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. And do you know why Mr. Jackson was at the

28 Hilton. 1906

1 A. I think he was doing some recording thing.

2 Well, yeah, he told me that he was going to do some

3 recording in Los Angeles, or something like that.

4 Q. And at some point you complained to the

5 sheriffs that Mr. Jackson had changed his phone

6 numbers after you visited the Hilton, right.

7 A. Well, that was the only phone number I

8 left — or I called — well, I’m not sure. Because

9 the only phone number that never changed was Evvy’s

10 phone number. And I would call her and I would ask

11 her sometimes where Michael was or something.

12 And then — and I had the phone number to

13 his hotel, so I think I called him at his hotel and

14 asked him if I could go visit him. I think it was

15 around — I’m not sure when exactly.

16 Q. When did you first get upset about your

17 phone numbers for Michael Jackson not working.

18 A. Maybe around the third or fourth

19 chemotherapy round I called his numbers and it would

20 be, like, “This phone number is no longer in

21 service.” Or sometimes it would just ring and it

22 wouldn’t never — no one would ever pick up or

23 something like that.

24 Q. This was after your cancer was in remission.

25 A. No, this was around the third or fourth

26 cancer — round of chemotherapy.

27 Q. Suddenly his phone numbers didn’t work,

28 right. 1907

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And did you try to get ahold of phone

3 numbers that would work.

4 A. I don’t know.

5 Q. Well, you’ve indicated that you were upset

6 that the phone numbers you had for Mr. Jackson at

7 some point didn’t work, right.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And the phone numbers you had for Mr.

10 Jackson began to not work after it appeared that

11 your cancer was in remission, correct.

12 A. No, I said they stopped working after my

13 third or fourth chemotherapy round.

14 Q. Okay. Before that, could you easily call

15 him.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And before that, did you often call him.

18 A. Yes. And he would call me and stuff. We

19 would talk — we talked a lot more before then.

20 Q. In fact, you called him at the Universal —

21 Hilton Universal the day you visited, right.

22 A. I believe so. I’m not too sure how it came

23 about.

24 Q. Who did you complain to about your phone

25 numbers to Mr. Jackson not working.

26 A. I didn’t complain to anybody.

27 Q. Ever mention it to your mother.

28 A. I’m pretty sure I did. 1908

1 Q. Ever mention it to your brother and sister.

2 A. I’m pretty sure I did — well, the first

3 person I told was my biological father, and then —

4 because he was usually the one always with me like

5 when we would go up to Neverland or go with me to —

6 with Chris or something.

7 Q. So you complained to your biological father

8 David that around the time of your third

9 chemotherapy treatment the phone numbers you had for

10 Michael Jackson were not working, right.

11 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

12 object to the question, the use of the first part of

13 it, because I believe that’s not his testimony, so

14 it assumes facts not in evidence.

15 THE COURT: Overruled.

16 You may answer. Do you want the question

17 read back.

18 THE WITNESS: Yes.

19 (Record read.)

20 THE WITNESS: I didn’t really complain.

21 I mean, I was in the hospital, and — I was either

22 in the hospital or at my grandmother’s house or

23 something. And I told my dad that — I told my

24 biological father that they weren’t working anymore.

Here is an excerpt from Mesereau’s speech to the students at Cumberland Law School in 2007 about how the only time Gavin became emotional on the witness stand is when he described how angry he was at Jackson for abandoning his family, not molesting him!

As clever as this thirteen-year-old boy was, he was not smart enough. He had lied previously in a civil deposition where his mother made false claims that she was molested by security guards at JC Penny stores. In my cross-examination, I spent a lot of time trying to reveal to the jury who this thirteen-year-old really was. I could not have done so if I confined him to “yes” or “no” answers. You only learn who people really are when they talk and reveal themselves. I believed self-revelation was worth the price of relinquishing witness control.

I warmed up this witness for the key question. My questions went something like this:

“You and your family wanted to stay at Neverland, correct?”

“You wanted to take trips with Michael Jackson and did so, right?”

“You went on amusement rides with Michael Jackson, didn’t you?”

“Michael Jackson introduced you to people you could only dream about actually meeting, right?”

“And at some point you became very angry at Michael Jackson, didn’t you?”

“Why?”

This child accuser began to ramble about how Michael had abandoned him and his family. He never mentioned anything about child molestation!

 

Mesereau then questions Gavin about his trips to Neverland with Chris Tucker, and Gavin explained that he thought that Tucker travelled with him to Neverland to film the Bashir interview, when in fact Tucker did not travel with the Arvizos for their taping of the Bashir interview at all! Mesereau became incredulous when he heard this testimony, and you can easily tell because he prefaced his question with “Are you telling the jury….” when he asked Gavin if he was sure that Tucker had travelled with him to Neverland.

8 Q. Okay. When you were undergoing

9 chemotherapy, you visited Neverland with Chris

10 Tucker on a couple of occasions, correct.

11 A. I don’t know if it was during my cancer. I

12 think it was — I visited him after. I don’t know.

13 Q. Approximately when was that, if you know.

14 A. I went up there with his birthday for

15 Dustin, so whenever his birthday is.

16 Q. I’m sorry, I can’t hear you.

17 A. I went up there whenever his birthday was,

18 whenever Dustin’s birthday was. But I don’t know

19 what came first, either the Martin Bashir thing or

20 Dustin’s birthday. I’m not sure.

21 Q. And Michael Jackson wasn’t there, right.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Do you know how that trip got arranged.

24 A. Which trip.

25 Q. The trip with Chris Tucker to Neverland when

26 Michael Jackson wasn’t even there.

27 A. Well, I’m not sure if Dustin — well, if it

28 was Dustin’s birthday or Chris’s — or, I mean, the 1911

1 Martin Bashir thing. So I’m not — I don’t know how

2 it got arranged that we’d go up there. I mean, I

3 don’t — like — I don’t really know whether it was

4 like a limousine or something.

5 Q. But you don’t know who set that up, right.

6 A. Not exactly. Well, the — I think the

7 Martin Bashir thing I went up there with Chris.

8 And then with the Dustin thing, I went up

9 there in Chris’s bus with a bunch of other people,

10 his family and stuff.

11 Q. Are you telling the jury that when you did

12 the Martin Bashir filming, Chris Tucker was with

13 you.

14 A. Um, I’m — I don’t know whether he drove me

15 up there or not. I — because I’m not too sure how,

16 like, all this stuff — how I got up there. But I

17 know I went up there with Chris for Dustin’s

18 birthday.

19 Q. Do you remember Chris being there when you

20 were filmed for the Bashir documentary.

21 A. I don’t know, because I think I might have

22 went up there with Chris, because I remember going

23 up there with Chris one time when we were riding

24 horses, and then he was wearing like this — this

25 thing that like only like sheiks would wear, and he

26 was joking around, and we were all riding horses and

27 stuff. And I don’t know — I think it might have

28 been around the time that I was — that Martin — 1912

1 that the Martin Bashir thing got filmed.

2 Q. To your knowledge, Chris Tucker wasn’t in

3 the Bashir documentary, right.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did you leave Neverland after that visit

6 with Chris.

7 A. After — well —

8 MR. SNEDDON: Excuse me, I’m going to object

9 as vague as to “that visit.” We’ve discussed a

10 couple of them.

11 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it.

12 THE COURT: All right.

13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you were at Neverland

14 to film what became part of the Bashir documentary,

15 at some point you went home, right.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And did you go home with Chris Tucker.

18 A. No. We stood there and we went swimming and

19 stuff.

Here is who Star said accompanied him to Neverland in September 2002 to shoot the Bashir documentary; notice that he never mentioned anything about Chris Tucker!

28 Q. Do you recognize the name Martin Bashir. 1054

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And how do you recognize it.

3 A. He was the person that did the taping of

4 “Living with Michael Jackson.”

5 Q. How do you know that.

6 A. Because we were introduced to him.

7 Q. Where were you introduced to him.

8 A. At the ranch.

9 Q. Do you remember about when that was.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Was it before or after the time that you’d

12 gone to the ranch with Mr. Tucker and his children,

13 or child.

14 A. It was after.

15 Q. And do you recall, was it during the time

16 that you were in school or was it during the summer.

17 A. School.

18 Q. And who all went to the ranch on this time,

19 on this occasion.

20 A. It was only me, my brother and my sister.

21 We went up there by ourselves.

22 Q. And how did you get there.

23 A. By limo.

Mesereau then began to question Gavin about the circumstances behind him and his brother Star asking to sleep in Jackson’s bedroom on their first night at Neverland in 2000. Gavin’s account is contradicted by Frank Cascio’s account, which is included after Gavin’s excerpt.

 

7 Q. Now, you visited Neverland a number of times

8 in the year 2000 with your biological father,

9 correct.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And do you remember if Michael Jackson was

12 there during those visits.

13 A. I think he was there for the — I think he

14 was there once. The first time I went there he was

15 there. And then I think the second time I went

16 there, he was there and then he had to leave.

17 Q. When your father was at Neverland with you,

18 did you ever stay in Michael Jackson’s room.

19 A. No, I only stood on the first night, and

20 then the rest of the nights I just stood in, like,

21 the units and stuff.

22 Q. And when you say you stayed there the first

23 night, is that the night you described where Michael

24 Jackson and Frank slept on the floor, and you and

25 your brother slept on the bed. Is that what you’re

26 talking about.

27 A. Yes, I believe so.

28 Q. And is it your testimony that that first 1915

1 visit, you had dinner in the main house with your

2 family and Michael Jackson.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And during that dinner, was there a

5 discussion about whether or not you and Star could

6 sleep in Michael Jackson’s room.

7 A. The first day.

8 Q. Yes.

9 A. Yeah. Like, we were in Michael’s office and

10 then we were talking about stuff, and then Michael

11 told me to ask if I could go sleep in his room so we

12 can watch, like, movies and stuff.

13 Q. Was there a discussion at the dinner table

14 that evening with your parents and Michael Jackson

15 about whether or not you could stay in his room.

16 A. Yes. Michael told me to ask my parents in

17 front of him and my parents.

18 Q. Did you ask your parents in front of Mr.

19 Jackson at the dinner table that evening.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Did your parents both approve you and your

22 brother staying in Michael Jackson’s room.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And that’s the night you say Michael and

25 Frank slept on the floor, right.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Did you ever ask either of your parents

28 after that whether you could stay in Michael 1916

1 Jackson’s room.

2 A. I don’t think so.

3 Q. You don’t think you ever asked them that

4 question again.

5 A. I think it was like we only stood there that

6 one night, and then after that, we stood in our

7 units or something. Because I think that’s the only

8 night I slept in his room, the first night.

9 Q. Okay. You said after that, you had stayed

10 in the guest units.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And are the guest units where your mother

13 was staying.

14 A. Well, there’s a lot of guest units, so I

15 think me and my brother had a room. Me and my

16 brother and my sister had a room, and my mom and my

17 dad had another room.

18 Q. Okay. And you and your brother would stay

19 in those guest units, right.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And approximately how many of those trips to

22 Neverland do you think you and your brother stayed

23 in the guest units.

24 A. After that first night we would stay in

25 there every night we would go there, every time, or

26 sometimes we would go to the train house and sleep

27 up there.

28 Q. You’d sleep in the train house. 1917

1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Please tell the jury where the train house

3 is.

4 A. It’s on top of a — like you come — like

5 the guest units are right here, and you go up the

6 side of this hill, and then up there there’s like

7 this train station. And then you can sleep in

8 there, because there’s, like, couches, and you can

9 roll out a bed, and then there’s a T.V. there and

10 stuff. It was pretty cool.

11 Q. How many times do you think you and your

12 brother stayed in the train house.

13 A. A few nights, I guess.

14 Q. When you visited Neverland with Chris

15 Tucker, did you stay in the train house.

16 A. Yeah. I think so. I think that’s the time

17 that we stood in the train house.

18 Q. Do you know where Chris Tucker stayed when

19 you visited Neverland with Chris Tucker.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Did you ever go into his room.

22 A. I think we might have. I don’t know. I

23 mean, I don’t know where he stood right as of now.

24 I mean, I don’t remember, but I don’t — I think we

25 went into his room to, like, say, “Let’s go do

26 this,” or something like that.

Gavin and Star claimed that Jackson asked them to ask their parents to allow them to sleep in his bedroom, but Frank Cascio said that it was Gavin who literally begged Jackson to sleep let him sleep in his bedroom!

Here is Frank Cascio’s statement about what REALLY happened that night at Neverland!

Also, did you notice that Gavin said that he was asked by Jackson to get permission? But Star said that both he was also asked to get permission!

Here is Star’s cross examination testimony about how Jackson asked both he and Gavin to get permission to sleep in his bedroom while they were in Jackson’s office, and both of them asked for permission while they were at Jackson’s dinner table eating with their family with him:

Q. All right. When you were at Neverland

Ranch, was there ever an occasion where you slept in

Mr. Jackson’s room with Mr. Jackson?

A. Yeah.

Q. Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of

the jury how it came about that you ended up

sleeping with Mr. Jackson in his bedroom?

A. I think we were in his office. We were all

talking.

Q. Who’s “we”?

A. Me, my brother and Michael. We were all in

his office, and we were talking. And then Michael

said we should sleep in his room. And then I was

like — I was, like, “Okay, yeah,” because we were,

like, wanted to sleep in his room, too. And then he

told us to ask in front of our parents if we could

sleep in his room.

So I think it was like at dinner, we had

asked her — we asked our parents if we could sleep

in Michael’s room, and then so we did. And then my

parents said yeah, it was okay. 1506

 

And here is Davellin’s version of that event, where she states that Gavin, not Star, asked to sleep in Jackson’s bedroom as they ate dinner together:

6 Q. Now, when you were at the ranch — go back

7 to the ranch for just a second. You were at the

8 ranch, and you’re visiting. Do you know — were you

9 present during a conversation, at any time while you

10 were on the ranch, concerning whether or not the

11 boys would stay with Mr. Jackson in his bedroom.

12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay;

13 foundation.

14 MR. SNEDDON: I haven’t asked for the —

15 THE COURT: All right.

16 You may answer that “Yes” or “No.”

17 The objection is overruled.

18 THE WITNESS: What was the question again.

19 THE COURT: I’ll have the court reporter read

20 it to you.

21 MR. MESEREAU: And leading, Your Honor.

22 THE COURT: Overruled.

23 (Record read.)

24 THE WITNESS: Yes.

25 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And where did that

26 conversation take place.

27 A. In the main dining room.

28 Q. And who was present when the conversation 601

1 took place.

2 A. Me, my father, my brothers and Mr. Jackson.

3 Q. And what was going on at the time that it

4 took place.

5 A. We were eating.

6 Q. Who brought up the subject.

7 A. Gavin did.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

9 THE COURT: Overruled.

10 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’m sorry, I don’t think we

11 heard your answer. Who brought it up.

12 A. Gavin.

13 Q. Gavin did.

14 A. Uh-huh.

15 Q. In response to his request —

16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Misstates the

17 evidence; leading; hearsay.

18 MR. SNEDDON: I haven’t even finished the

19 question yet.

20 THE COURT: But I think you caught yourself.

21 MR. SNEDDON: No, I —

22 THE COURT: I’ll sustain the objection as

23 leading. It’s —

24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: As a result of the

25 conversation that particular night, do you know, of

26 your own personal knowledge, where your brother

27 slept.

28 A. Yes. 602

1 Q. Where.

2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation;

3 hearsay; relevance.

4 THE COURT: Foundation; sustained.

5 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: With regard to your — I

6 asked you of your own personal knowledge.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And what was that based on.

9 A. Gavin telling me — well, no —

10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay; move to

11 strike.

12 MR. SNEDDON: I’ll rephrase it this way,

13 Judge:

14 Q. As a result of the conversation that —

15 without telling us what was said, as a result of the

16 conversation that occurred at the dinner table, did

17 your brothers sleep in the guest room that night.

18 A. No.

 

And here is Sneddon’s version of that event! He stated that Jackson only asked Gavin, not Star!

10 Now, on the night before the last day that

11 they were to leave, Michael Jackson, the defendant

12 in this case, takes Gavin aside, and he says to

13 Gavin, “Gavin, why don’t you ask your parents if you

14 can spend the night in my bedroom, at the dinner

15 table tonight.”

16 Well, obviously here’s a little kid who’s in

17 the midst of a life-threatening disease —

18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.

19 MR. SNEDDON: — a chance to spend the

20 night —

21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.

22 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead.

23 MR. SNEDDON: — the chance to spend the

24 night with one of his idols. Gavin obliges. Gavin

25 asks his parents at dinner, “Can I spend the night

26 with Michael Jackson in his bedroom.”

27 And the parents say, “Yes”; they agree. And

28 it’s agreed that Star will go along with them. 38

 

To be continued: https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/march-14th-2005-trial-analysis-gavin-arvizo-cross-examination-part-3-of-4/