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April 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Ralph Chacon (Direct & Cross Examination), Adrian McManus (Direct & Cross Examination) , Part 4 of 5

December 12, 2012

Adrian McManus arrives to court

The next prosecution witness was Adrian McManus, a former employee of Jackson who worked at Neverland from August 29th, 1990 through July 31st, 1994.  She started off as housekeeper but later was promoted to cleaning Jackson’s bedrooms. Here is what Sneddon had to say about the abuse that she allegedly witnessed in 1993 in his December 10th, 2004 pleading titled “PLAINTIFF’S MOTION FOR ADMISSION OF EVIDENCE OF DEFENDANT’S PRIOR SEXUAL OFFENSES”:


Adrian McManus began her employment as a domestic at Neverland Valley Ranch an August 29, 1990. For the first nine months of her employment, she was assigned general housekeeping responsibilities, which did not include Michael Jackson’s bedroom. During that nine-month period, Blanca Francia was the person in charge of cleaning Michael Jackson’s private quarters.

Around April or May of 1991, Mrs. McManus was assigned responsibility for cleaning Michael Jackson’s private quarters. She continued in to work in that assignment until 1994. She worked directly for Michael Jackson and had exclusive control over the keys to his room. The supervisor of the house during most of her employment was Gayle Goforth.

During her employment, Mrs. McManus observed three separate incidents of Michael Jackson molesting children. Each involved a different child. The first incident involved Macaulay Culkin. It occurred during the nine-month period after she was hired, but before she was assigned the cleaning of Jackson’s quarters. It was late one afternoon and she was upstairs, cleaning a bathroom. A library is located near the bathroom. As she walked out of the bathroom and by the library, she saw Jackson and Macaulay Culkin standing near the fireplace in the library. Jackson and young Culkin were standing face-to-face, but sideways to her. She saw Jackson kiss Culkin and place his hand on Culkin’s buttock area. She observed Jackson fondling the child’s crotch area outside the boy’s clothing.

On a later date, after she was assigned to clean Michael Jackson’s room but before his 1993 “Dangerous” tour, she saw another incident involving a young boy by the name of Brett Barnes. She believes it was in 1993 and in the morning.

Mrs. McManus had been directed by Michael Jackson to go upstairs and pull out all the videotapes in a certain room. Jackson and the Barnes boy came to the video room to see how she was coming along with the chore. They left together and headed downstairs. She decided it was too hot in the room, so she also decided to go downstairs. When she got to the landing near the bottom of the stairway, she looked down the hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom. Jackson and Barnes were side by side facing the door to the bedroom and Michael Jackson was on the boy’s right. She saw Michael Jackson kissing Brett Barnes and fondling his buttock area. Jackson’s left hand was over the boy’s clothing and on the child’s bottom.

Jackson was kissing the boy on the right side of the child’s face, near his mouth. She panicked and immediately retreated back to the videotapes project.

The third incident involved a boy named Jordan Chandler. It also occurred in 1993 and before the “Dangerous” tour. It was also before the public allegations of child molesting were lodged against Michael Jackson. Mrs. McManus was inside Jackson’s private quarters upstairs, dusting in his bedroom. She heard the chimes go off, indicating someone was entering into the private quarters area, and then she heard Jackson’s voice.

A bathroom is located at the foot of the stairwell leading to the upstairs bedroom. Mrs. McManus looked down the stairway and saw Jackson and Jordan Chandler. They apparently had been in what she has described as the “fort area” (which may be in the vicinity of the waterfalls between the two lakes on the property) because both were wet and their wet clothing was lying on the floor. Both had on long pants, but no shirts. Michael Jackson was kissing Jordan and fondling his crotch area. His hand was definitely down between the child’s legs. She also saw Jackson kissing Chandler on the mouth. Both were facing each other. She stepped back and remained quiet, waited for them to leave and then left the bedroom without being observed.

Mrs. McManus will also be called as a witness as to matters not coming within Evidence Code section 1108, including, but not limited to, defendant’s admission to her that he eavesdropped from his room on telephone conversations of others on Neverland Ranch telephones, and that she was present during one such eavesdropping on a telephone call by Lisa Marie Presley. She will also testify that during her cleaning chores, she saw numerous books on surveillance and recording. She also observed recording devices in defendant’s private quarters. Further, Mrs. McManus saw a book on masturbation and can also establish that Michael Jackson drank alcohol, particularly wine.

On March 25th, 2005 Mesereau submitted the following pleading titled “SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF OPPOSITION TO DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S MOTION FOR ADMISSION OF ALLEGED PRIOR OFFENSES”, in which he stated the following rebuttal to the allegations of McManus and others:

The Abdool Plaintiffs

The defense requests that the Court take judicial notice of the file in Abdool v. Jackson, Santa Maria Superior Court, Case No. SM 89344. The plaintiffs in that case, including Adrian McManus and Ralph Chacon, who are listed as witnesses in the prosecution’s motion, and their lawyer, Michael Ring, were sanctioned jointly on numerous occasions for lying in their depositions and to the court.

The total sanctions were approximately $66,000. The sanctions were imposed for discovery violations and for forcing the defendants to prove, in open court, that the plaintiffs were lying. The sanctions were imposed because the plaintiffs had lied in their depositions and, in some instances, actually lied on the stand in open court. For instance, on one occasion, one of the plaintiffs, while on the stand, blatantly contradicted her own testimony, given earlier in the day. The judge left the bench saying he was disgusted.

The jury in the Abdool case found against the plaintiff on all of their allegations. The jury also found in favor of the defendant, Michael Jackson, and against Adrian McManus and Ralph Chacon, for stealing from Mr. Jackson. The court imposed attorney’s fees and costs of $1.4 million against the plaintiffs. The trial of these plaintiffs lasted 6 months and 1 day before The Honorable Judge Canter. Were these plaintiffs to be called in this case, one would assume, based on the six month duration of the Abdool trial, that the plaintiff’s testimony and the defense would take at least a month in and of itself.

Furthermore, these witnesses were not claiming to be percipient witnesses to actual sexual offenses, with the exception of Ralph Chacon.

Ralph Chacon is a liar. He lied about being given a weapons permit based on his role as a witness. He lied in deposition. He lied to reporters and he lied on the stand.

Adrian McManus had stolen from her own family members. She was sued for stealing niece and nephew’s inheritance. She made all sorts of false and contradictory claims.

The plaintiffs were allowed to talk about the allegations in pretrial discovery, and did so. The only person having anything salacious to say was Ralph Chacon. When the case came to trial, the trial court disallowed evidence of the salacious allegations because they had nothing to do with the causes of action in the litigation. Nevertheless, these plaintiffs were thoroughly discredited, not only as to the allegations they made in court, but as to what Mr. Chacon had to say.

With regard to all of the Abdool plaintiffs, they lied about going to the media and selling their stories, when in fact, they had an agent and had gone to the media to sell their stories. It turned out they were a bit too late to take advantage of the opportunities that Blanca Francia and the Quindoys were able to cash in on. These people tried to hawk their false stores and were unsuccessful, so they filed their meritless lawsuit. They lied about meeting with the media. As if this were not enough, the stories that they told and personally edited were so fantastic and salacious, they had denied ever saying such things, when they believed that Mr. Jackson’s counsel did not know about it. Even after the stories appeared, they denied that they had talked with the journalists, because they denied that the events in the stories occurred. In one instance, it was demonstrated that their handwritten notes were on drafts of the stories. Once again, it will be necessary to relitigate all of this.

Here is her recollection of her time at Neverland:





8 Q. Ms. McManus, good morning.


9 A. Good morning.


10 Q. Without telling us the location or the name


11 of where you’re working, describe the kind of work


12 you’re currently doing.


13 A. I work in a jewelry department where I sell


14 diamonds.


15 Q. Is this a department store?


16 A. Yes, sir.


17 Q. Is it in the Santa Maria area?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. How long have you been working at that


20 department store?


21 A. Seven years in July.


22 Q. You work in the diamond department, do you?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. All right. There is such a thing as a


25 diamond department?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. They sell raw diamonds or finished diamonds


28 or jewelry? 5283


1 A. Fine diamonds, jewelry.


2 Q. All right.


3 A. It’s actually a lot of diamonds.


4 Q. Okay. Have you worked in that department


5 the entire time?


6 A. No.


7 Q. Have you worked in other departments in that


8 store as well?


9 A. Yes.


10 Q. Prior to that, what kind of work were you


11 doing?


12 A. I was a merchandise assistant for the


13 cosmetic department.


14 Q. At the same store?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. For what period of time?


17 A. Probably the beginning of my employment.


18 Maybe about four years.


19 Q. And prior to that, what kind of work were


20 you doing?


21 A. Do you mean like after that or before that?


22 Q. Before working with this store.


23 A. I worked for Sears, and I ran — I was in


24 the cosmetic department.


25 Q. Did you ever work for Michael Jackson?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Do you see Michael Jackson in this


28 courtroom? 5284


1 A. I don’t have my glasses. I forgot them


2 upstairs.


3 Q. How far can you see?


4 A. I can’t see real far.


5 Q. Can you see me?


6 A. Yeah, blurry.


7 Q. I won’t ask that question, then.


8 Can you read, in the event we need to show


9 you some documents?


10 A. No, I need to get my glasses.


11 Q. We’re going to have a break in a few


12 minutes. I’ll reserve all those questions until we


13 have that break.


14 You did work for Michael Jackson at some


15 point, did you not?


16 A. Yes.


17 Q. For what period of time did you work for


18 Michael Jackson?


19 A. From, I think, August 29th of 1990 through


20 July 31st of 1994.


21 Q. In what capacity? What kind of work did you


22 do for Mr. Jackson?


23 A. At the beginning I was just a maid, regular


24 housekeeper. Nine months later I was cleaning his


25 bedroom.


26 Q. And did you continue that job for the


27 duration of your employment?


28 A. Yes. 5285


1 Q. Were you the only person cleaning his


2 bedroom?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. Tell me how that worked. Why were there not


5 other people involved in cleaning his bedroom as


6 well?


7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.


9 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What were you told about who


10 would be cleaning his bedroom?


11 A. I was just told that I was flexible and that


12 I was the one to clean his bedroom.


13 Q. And that was that entire time after a few


14 months after you commenced working for Mr. Jackson?


15 A. Yes.


16 Q. So it was early ‘91?


17 A. I just know it was nine months after,


18 because I started in ‘90, and —


19 Q. Now, up to that point, you were responsible


20 for cleaning other locations at Neverland; is that


21 correct?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. What were those other locations? Tell us


24 what your job included.


25 A. Before that time?


26 Q. Yes.


27 A. Cleaning the rec room, the ranch house, the


28 guest units, the hill house, the main house, except 5286


1 his bedroom at that time.


2 Q. Do you know who the person was who was


3 responsible for cleaning his bedroom before you?


4 A. Blanca Francia.


5 Q. And did you know Blanca Francia?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. Were you the one who took over that job when


8 she left?


9 A. Yes.


10 Q. Did you take over that job as soon as she


11 left?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. Describe to us what those responsibilities


14 included, cleaning —


15 THE COURT: Let’s take a break.


16 (Recess taken.)


17 THE COURT: Go ahead.


18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Thank you. Where we left off


19 before the break, I was asking you about your


20 responsibilities, once you assumed the position of


21 being the personal maid for Michael Jackson.


22 And before I get to that, do you have your


23 glasses?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Is Mr. Jackson here in the courtroom?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Okay. Could you identify him, please?


28 A. He’s right here. 5287


1 MR. ZONEN: And the record should reflect.




3 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What were your


4 responsibilities as his personal maid?


5 A. To pick up after Mr. Jackson, anything to do


6 with his clothes, his — washing his clothes, fixing


7 his bed, cleaning his bedroom.


8 BAILIFF CORTEZ: I’m sorry, can you speak


9 more into the microphone?


10 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You have to stay fairly close


11 to the microphone to be able to be heard all the way


12 to the back of the courtroom, if you will.


13 Describe his bedroom suite for us, please.


14 A. It was a very big room. There was a second


15 level to it. There was a Jacuzzi on one side with a


16 bathroom. A closet. Inside that closet was a


17 secret closet.


18 The other side of the room there was a


19 bathroom also, and another walk-in closet, and there


20 was a stairway that led up to the second level.


21 Q. Were your responsibilities limited to that


22 suite?


23 A. At one time, yes.


24 Q. All right. What if Mr. Jackson was gone for


25 a while, if he was on tour, or out of town for a


26 period of time, what would you do?


27 A. I still had to pick up the room, as far as


28 keeping it dusted, and brassing, and cleaning the 5288


1 tub. There was still a lot to do.


2 Q. Were there responsibilities that went beyond


3 the suite on those occasions?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. Did Mr. Jackson have monkeys during that


6 period of time, or apes, or chimps, or —


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. — primates?


9 A. Yes.


10 Q. Were they living in his room?


11 A. They weren’t living in his room, but they


12 were brought into his room.


13 Q. Were there cages for them?


14 A. Some — well, when I seen them, they were


15 running around.


16 Q. Did you ever see cages in his room?


17 A. I don’t recall seeing cages in the room.


18 Q. Were you, on occasion, required to tend to


19 the monkeys or clean up after the monkeys?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. And describe what that obligation was.


22 A. Well, there was a little monkey, a chimp,


23 and —


24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; relevance.


25 THE COURT: Relevance, Counsel?


26 MR. ZONEN: I’ll withdraw the question. Let


27 me move on.

Now, let’s get down to business! McManus claimed that she witnessed Jackson abusing Wade Robson in the early 90’s, and this is why she was called to testify as a 1108 witness. Here is her recollection of how she first met Robeson:

28 Q. Were you the personal maid for the balance 5289


1 of time that you were there?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. All right. Do you know a person by the


4 name — or did you know a person by the name of Wade


5 Robeson?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. Who was Wade Robeson?


8 A. He was a little boy that used to go to the


9 ranch, and he was from Australia.


10 Q. How old was he when you saw him at the


11 ranch?


12 A. I don’t know exact. Maybe 10, 11.


13 Q. Now, you have a son, do you not?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. And your son at that time was approximately


16 how old?


17 A. Maybe ten.


18 Q. About the same age as Wade Robeson?


19 A. Yes.


20 Q. Did your son ever come with you to Neverland


21 Ranch?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. On many occasions?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Did your son know Wade Robeson?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Did they, on occasion, play together?


28 A. Off and on. 5290


1 Q. For what period of time did you see Wade


2 Robeson there at the ranch; do you recall?


3 A. Are you talking about, like, months or —


4 Q. Well, for what period of time did Wade

5 Robeson visit the ranch?


6 A. Are you talking about years or just the


7 timing, like?


8 Q. From the earliest time that you saw him


9 visit to, say, the last time you saw him visit, if


10 you can recall, give us a sense of what period of


11 time that was.


12 A. I would say probably 1992. I don’t know how


13 many months.


14 Q. And did you see him there for a long period


15 of time?


16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


17 THE COURT: Sustained.


18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: How often did he visit during


19 that period of time? In other words, how many


20 separate times did he come, to your recollection?


21 A. There were a lot of times. Come maybe for a


22 week or the weekend.


23 Q. All right. And that was my next question.


24 A. Sorry.


25 Q. How long would he stay when he did come?


26 A. Sometimes a weekend, sometimes maybe a


27 little longer.


28 Q. And during that period of time, where did – 5291


1 where did Wade Robeson stay when he was at the


2 house, when he was at the ranch?


3 A. In Mr. Jackson’s room.

Next, Zonen questioned McManus about her observations of Jackson and Robson’s interactions at Neverland. She claimed to have seen them sleeping in the same bed together in the downstairs section of Jackson’s bedroom, which is probably true because Robson went on the record in 1993 and stated that he merely fell asleep in Jackson’s bed after staying up late, and there were no sexual connotations involved. Later on in this trial, Robson’s mother will testify that she was fully aware of where her son was sleeping, and had no problems with it:

4 Q. Were you the personal maid for Mr. Jackson


5 during the entire time that Wade Robeson visited?


6 A. I believe so. Yes.


7 Q. Let me change that again.


8 During the period of time that you were the


9 personal maid, was Wade Robeson visiting that entire


10 time?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Okay. I think you said among your


13 responsibilities were to pick up after Mr. Jackson


14 and wash clothing. Do you have a recollection as to


15 whether or not you saw Wade Robeson’s personal


16 possessions?


17 A. Sometimes.


18 Q. And I asked you where Wade Robeson stayed,


19 and you said Mr. Jackson’s room. Do you know where


20 he stayed in the room?


21 A. In the same bed as Mr. Jackson.


22 Q. Okay. Were there other beds in Mr.


23 Jackson’s suite during that period of time?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Where were the other beds?


26 A. There was one upstairs in like — I don’t


27 know if you’d call it — in like a loft.


28 Q. Was that bed ever used? 5292


1 A. No.


2 Q. Do you have a recollection of ever changing


3 sheets on that bed?


4 A. I did, you know, just to keep it kind of up,


5 but not always.


6 Q. Do you have a recollection of anybody ever


7 seeping in that bed; in other words, coming in and


8 discovering that those sheets had simply been used,


9 the bed had been used?


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. How often?


12 A. Maybe — maybe once.


13 Q. During the entire time that you were the


14 personal maid for Mr. Jackson?


15 A. I believe so.


16 Q. All right. Did you know Wade Robeson’s


17 parents, mother or father?


18 A. I don’t ever remember meeting a father, but


19 I remember the mother.


20 Q. And where did she stay when they were there?


21 A. In the guest unit.


22 Q. Did Wade Robeson have any brothers or


23 sisters who came?


24 A. Not that I recall.


25 Q. Do you know if Wade Robeson’s mother ever


26 stayed in Mr. Jackson’s residence?


27 A. No. I recall her in the guest units.


28 Q. Did you see Wade Robeson in Mr. Jackson’s 5293


1 residence?


2 A. Yes.

Here’s Robson and his mother Joy defending Jackson in 1993, along with Brett Barnes:

Next, McManus was asked to describe Macaulay Culkin and his family’s visits to Neverland, and of course he just had to focus on the whereabouts of Culkin’s sleeping arrangements:

3 Q. Do you know who Macaulay Culkin is?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. Who is Macaulay Culkin?


6 A. He was a little boy that used to come to the


7 ranch.


8 Q. Do you know during what period of time


9 Macaulay Culkin came to the ranch?


10 A. 1990, maybe, through maybe ‘93.


11 Q. He was there for extended periods as well?


12 A. Yes.


13 Q. And by “extended periods,” what do we mean?


14 A. Sometimes a week. Sometimes longer.


15 Q. Did he visit frequently during that period


16 of time?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. Was he ever there during the period of time


19 that Wade Robeson was there?


20 A. I can’t recall.


21 Q. Did Macaulay Culkin have brothers or


22 sisters?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. Do you know how many brothers or sisters he


25 had?


26 A. I’m thinking maybe seven or eight.


27 Q. It was a large family?


28 A. Yes. 5294


1 Q. Did you ever meet his parents?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. Would all of them come to the ranch on


4 occasion?


5 A. Sometimes.


6 Q. Were there occasions when Macaulay Culkin


7 came by himself?


8 A. Sometimes.


9 Q. And on those occasions when he came by


10 himself, how long, typically, would he stay?


11 A. The weekend. Sometimes his parents would


12 show up later and they’d be there maybe a week.


13 Q. How old was Macaulay Culkin when he was


14 visiting the ranch during that period of time?


15 A. Maybe 11. 10 or 11 maybe.


16 Q. At the earliest — you gave us a period of


17 time that was over two or three years. What was the


18 youngest age you remember seeing him, as best you


19 can recall?


20 A. Maybe ten.


21 Q. Okay. Was Macaulay Culkin — do you know


22 him to be an actor?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. Have you seen things that he’s been in,


25 movies or television?

26 A. Maybe one.


27 Q. Do you know where Macaulay Culkin stayed


28 when he was at the ranch? 5295


1 A. In Mr. Jackson’s room.


2 Q. And as I had asked previously, do you know


3 where in Mr. Jackson’s room he stayed?


4 A. In his bedroom, in his bed.


5 Q. And how do you know that?


6 A. Because when I would — when I would go in


7 the room the next day, there was just one bed that I


8 had to fix.


9 Q. Do you know if Macaulay Culkin and Wade


10 Robeson’s visit would overlap on occasion, when both


11 would be there at the same time?


12 A. Can you repeat that?


13 Q. I’m sorry?


14 A. Can you repeat it?


15 Q. If their visits would overlap, if they would


16 be there at the same time. Do you have a


17 recollection of seeing Macaulay Culkin and Wade


18 Robeson there at the same time?


19 A. I could have.


20 Q. Do you know where Macaulay Culkin’s family


21 stayed when they were at the ranch?


22 A. Usually at the guest units.


23 Q. And the guest units were a separate


24 building?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. Do you know if his brothers or sisters ever


27 stayed overnight in Mr. Jackson’s personal


28 residence, his personal suite? 5296


1 A. Not that I know of.

Next, Zonen questioned McManus about her observations of Jordan Chandler at Neverland:

Q. Who is Jordan Chandler?


3 A. He’s another little boy that used to come to


4 the ranch.


5 Q. Do you know what period of time he used to


6 come to the ranch?


7 A. Maybe ‘93.


8 Q. Was it for as long a period of time as Mr.


9 Culkin, Macaulay Culkin came to the ranch?


10 A. No.


11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


12 THE COURT: Sustained.


13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Can you tell us the period of


14 time that Jordan Chandler visited at Neverland? In


15 other words, at what time did it commence and at


16 what time did it end, if at all, during your period


17 of employment?


18 A. Maybe 1993 and maybe through ‘94. Maybe


19 early, maybe late — actually, maybe late ‘93.

Here are more of her recollections of Brett Barnes:

20 Q. Who is Brett Barnes?


21 A. Another boy that used to come to the ranch.


22 Q. How old was Brett Barnes when he visited?


23 A. Probably maybe 11.


24 Q. For what period of time did Brett Barnes


25 come to the ranch?


26 A. He was there quite a lot. Mid — maybe


27 1993.


28 Q. Do you know approximately what period of 5297


1 time Brett Barnes would come and visit? In other


2 words, over what period of time, measured in months,


3 measured in years, measured in weeks, from the first


4 visit to the last?


5 A. I would — I’m thinking maybe 1992 through


6 maybe 19 — late 1993.


7 Q. When Brett Barnes came to the ranch, did he


8 come with family?


9 A. Yes.


10 Q. And who in his family did he come to the


11 ranch with?


12 A. With his mother and his sister.


13 Q. Did you ever meet Brett Barnes’ father?


14 A. I don’t believe there was a father in that


15 picture. I have never seen a father.


16 Q. Brett Barnes has a sister, you say, who


17 came?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. How old was she?


20 A. I would say maybe 13.


21 Q. How frequently did Brett Barnes come to the


22 ranch during that period of time?


23 A. A lot.


24 Q. And by “a lot,” what do we mean? Would it


25 be more than one visit a month?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. And when he came, how long did Brett Barnes


28 stay? 5298


1 A. Sometimes — sometimes a week. Sometimes


2 less than a week.


3 Q. Where did he stay when he came?


4 A. In Mr. Jackson’s room.


5 Q. Where did he sleep when he was there?


6 A. In Mr. Jackson’s bed.


7 Q. Do you have a recollection at any time


8 either fixing a bed for Brett Barnes that was


9 separate from Mr. Jackson’s bed or cleaning up after


10 a bed separate from Mr. Jackson’s bed?


11 A. No.

In order to give the jury the impression that Jackson tried to separate the parents from their young sons, Zonen questioned McManus about the sleeping arrangements at Neverland, and she answered that the parents usually slept in the guest cottages, while the boys always slept in Jackson’s bed:

12 Q. I had asked you about Jordan Chandler. When


13 he came to Neverland Ranch, did he come with his


14 family?


15 A. Jordan came with his mother and his little


16 sister.


17 Q. Do you know how old the little sister was?


18 A. Maybe four.


19 Q. She was a small child?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Did you ever meet Jordan Chandler’s father?


22 A. I never — I never met — I never seen his


23 father around there. I never met him.


24 Q. During the visits when Jordan Chandler came,


25 where did his mother and sister stay?


26 A. In the guest unit.


27 Q. And where did Jordan Chandler stay?


28 A. In Mr. Jackson’s room. 5299


1 Q. Consistently?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. Where did Jordan Chandler sleep when he was


4 in Mr. Jackson’s room?


5 A. In Mr. Jackson’s bed.


6 Q. Now, do you have a recollection of these


7 four boys being there at the same time, Macaulay


8 Culkin, Jordan Chandler, Brett Barnes, and Wade


9 Robeson?


10 A. Um, I — I kind of recall Brett being there


11 with Jordie, at the same time. And, you know, it


12 could have been Wade also, when Brett was there.


13 Q. Would that have been a common occurrence?


14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


15 THE COURT: Overruled.


16 You may answer.


17 THE WITNESS: Not always.


18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you understand — not


19 always?


20 A. Not always.


21 Q. Do you have a recollection of specific

22 events of all of them being there together or the


23 two or the three that you mentioned?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; asked and


25 answered.


26 THE COURT: Overruled.


27 You may answer.


28 THE WITNESS: I just recall seeing them 5300


1 there at the same time, Brett and Jordie.


2 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Brett and Jordie?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. Do you know how many times you saw Brett and


5 Jordie there together?


6 A. At least two times.


7 Q. During the entire period of time that you


8 worked as Michael Jackson’s maid, personal maid, was


9 it a frequent occasion that there would be one of


10 those four boys there?


11 A. Yes.


12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


13 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was,


14 “Yes.” Next question.


15 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Was there ever an occasion


16 that one of those four boys was there and did not


17 stay in Michael Jackson’s bedroom and bed?


18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.


19 THE COURT: Sustained.


20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Was there ever an occasion


21 that you personally witnessed during the time that


22 you worked as his personal maid when any of those


23 four boys stayed — and you were on duty, where they


24 stayed in the guesthouse and not in Mr. Jackson’s


25 bed?


26 A. No.

Next, McManus described the “inappropriate behavior” towards Culkin, Barnes, and Chandler. She claimed to have seen Jackson kissing and fondling Culkin and Chandler, and putting his hand down the pants of Barnes. Instead of immediately intervening to bring these alleged sexual assaults to an end, McManus simply “walked off” into another room! Unbelievable!

27 Q. As part of your obligations and


28 responsibilities as the maid, did you clean up in 5301


1 the bathrooms?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. Was there a Jacuzzi in the bathroom?


4 A. It wasn’t in — yes, but —


5 Q. Am I describing the room incorrectly or


6 inaccurately?


7 A. Yeah, because it wasn’t really attached. It


8 was just one room where the Jacuzzi was, and off to


9 the side there was a bathroom and a shower.


10 MR. ZONEN: Just one second.


11 Q. During the period of time that you were


12 working as Mr. Jackson’s personal maid, did you ever


13 see behavior by Mr. Jackson toward any of these boys


14 that concerned you?


15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.


16 THE COURT: Overruled.


17 You may answer.




19 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: And which of the four boys


20 are we talking about?


21 A. Macaulay Culkin, Brett Barnes and Jordie


22 Chandler.


23 Q. All right. Let’s begin with Macaulay


24 Culkin. What is it that you saw that concerned you?


25 A. I was coming out of the bathroom by his


26 bedroom, by Mr. Jackson’s bedroom. I was cleaning


27 that bathroom. And when I came out, I saw Mr.


28 Jackson and Macaulay in the library, and Mr. Jackson 5302


1 was kissing him on his cheek, and he had his hand


2 kind of by his leg, kind of on his rear end.


3 Q. Did they know that you were there?


4 A. I don’t know —


5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; calls for


6 speculation.


7 THE COURT: Sustained.


8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you announce your


9 presence to them?


10 A. No.


11 Q. Where were you at the time you witnessed


12 this?


13 A. I was coming out of the bathroom by Mr.


14 Jackson’s bedroom.


15 Q. All right. Is that on the first floor?


16 A. Yes.


17 Q. Is that where you were?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. Were they on the first floor as well?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Did you — did you note that they were in


22 the room or had come into the room?


23 A. No.


24 Q. Were you surprised to see them?


25 A. Yes.


26 Q. Had you been cleaning in that room?


27 A. In the bathroom?


28 Q. Yes. 5303


1 A. Yes.


2 Q. How did you come upon them? How did that


3 happen?


4 A. I was leaving the bathroom, and when I


5 walked out of the bathroom, I looked up and I saw.


6 Q. How far away from you were they?


7 A. I don’t know the feet. It was a little


8 distance.


9 Q. Between the distance that you and I are at


10 this moment?


11 A. Maybe a little further.


12 Q. All right. Let’s say to the back rail over


13 here, behind me?


14 A. Probably a little further. Maybe a little


15 further.


16 Q. Second or third row?


17 A. Maybe second row.


18 MR. ZONEN: Okay. And for the record, could


19 we say that’s 30 feet, 25? The second row?


20 THE COURT: I’m not testifying.


21 (Laughter.)


22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: How far do you think that is


23 in feet? Do you have any way of knowing?


24 A. No.


25 Q. All right. You did not hear them come into


26 the room?


27 A. No.


28 Q. When you got to the position where you saw 5304


1 them, were either of them looking at you?


2 A. No.


3 Q. Were either of them facing you?


4 A. No.


5 Q. And you testified that you saw Michael


6 Jackson kissing Macaulay Culkin?


7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; asked and


8 answered.




10 THE COURT: Just a moment.


11 THE WITNESS: Oh, I’m sorry.


12 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.


13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Where did he kiss him?


14 A. On the cheek.


15 Q. And where did he touch him?


16 A. Kind of like by his leg, and it went to his


17 rear end.

18 Q. And how long did that last?


19 A. I don’t know how long. I just walked off.


20 Q. And you say you walked off.


21 A. Yes.


22 Q. Walked off where?


23 A. I went to the laundry room.


24 Q. All right. Were you in a position where you


25 could do that without being seen?


26 A. I believe so.


27 Q. All right. Did you leave the — literally


28 leave the suite? 5305


1 A. I was in the rest room and I left the rest


2 room.


3 Q. Okay. Now, can you describe that for us,


4 how you could do that without necessarily being seen


5 or detected in his room? You didn’t have to walk by


6 them or anything?


7 A. No. They were at a distance, so I just


8 walked through the hall.


9 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever mention to you anything


10 about that?


11 A. No.


12 Q. Did you ever mention anything to him about


13 that?


14 A. No.


15 Q. Was that the first thing that you had seen


16 in terms of behavior toward a child that caused you


17 concern?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. Did you see any other incidents that caused


20 you concern in terms of Mr. Macaulay Culkin?


21 A. No.


22 Q. What was the next thing that you saw that


23 caused you concern?


24 A. Brett Barnes.


25 Q. And what did you see?


26 A. Well, I was up in the video room, and Mr.


27 Jackson had me taking videos out of the wall. There


28 was — the room was a video room. It was actually a 5306


1 soldier room. And he had me taking all of the


2 videos out of the wall, and there was like — I


3 don’t know what you call them, like wood things that


4 would hold the videos, and they had, like, screws in


5 the wall. So I was pulling those all out because he


6 had heard that you could see down into his bedroom.


7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.


8 THE COURT: Sustained.


9 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.




11 THE COURT: Just a moment. I’ll strike from


12 the point where she said, “So I was pulling those


13 out.”


14 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. Why — what were


15 you pulling out from the walls?


16 A. Videotapes.


17 Q. Why were you doing that?


18 A. Because Mr. Jackson had heard that you could


19 see down into his bedroom. There was like a little


20 cubbyhole in the back of the walls up in that room,


21 so he wanted to see if you could see down into his


22 bedroom.


23 Q. So did you, in fact, remove videotapes?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Could you see down into the bedroom?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Did you show him that, or did he see that


28 with you? 5307


1 A. He was in his room, and where I was at was


2 above his room, so he came up with Brett Barnes to


3 that room.


4 Q. He came up to the room?


5 A. Up to the video room with Brett Barnes.


6 Q. While you were there?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. All right. And did you show him that spot


9 while he was there?


10 A. Yes.


11 Q. All right. Now, when did you see him doing


12 something with Brett Barnes?


13 A. After that?


14 Q. Yes. Was it right after that?


15 A. It was kind of right after that, yeah.


16 Q. And where was he?


17 A. They were walking back down the stairs, and


18 they went down through the hall by his bedroom, and


19 I kind of followed because it was very hot up there


20 in that room. And I was on the landing after you


21 get on the stairs, and I kind of looked over the


22 landing, and he was walking away with Brett to his


23 room, and I saw him put his hand on Brett’s rear


24 end, and he gave Brett a kiss on the cheek.


25 Q. In like fashion to what you described you


26 had seen with Macaulay Culkin?


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. All right. Which of those incidents took 5308


1 place first, Macaulay Culkin or Brett Barnes?


2 A. Macaulay Culkin.


3 Q. How far away from them were you at that


4 time? How far away from them? How far away?


5 A. With Brett?


6 Q. Yes.


7 A. Oh, gosh, not that far. Maybe from where


8 I’m at to maybe the third row back.


9 Q. Okay. I’m done estimating distances, so


10 we’ll leave it at that.


11 All right. Is that the only incident that


12 you saw with Brett Barnes?


13 A. Yes.


14 Q. Did you see an incident with anybody else?


15 A. With Jordan Chandler.


16 Q. And when was that?


17 A. Asking about the year?


18 Q. Relative to the incident that you saw with


19 Brett Barnes.


20 A. God, I can’t even think of the year.


21 Probably ‘93.


22 Q. Was it toward the end of your employment


23 there?


24 A. Maybe — maybe — a little, maybe.


25 Q. And what did you see?


26 A. I was up in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom and I


27 was — I was on the second — the loft area, and I


28 was dusting. And I heard the chimes go off, so I 5309


1 knew somebody was coming into the bedroom.


2 Q. What does that mean, you heard the chimes go


3 off? Where were there chimes?


4 A. There’s like a sensor, like it rings.


5 They’re bells that ring when anybody’s coming into


6 Mr. Jackson’s room, or if you leave the room, the


7 chimes will go off.


8 Q. And when they go off, how long do they ring?


9 A. Until —


10 Q. If you walk through it, it will ring for how


11 long?


12 A. For a while. For a little while, until I


13 guess people are out of the area where you’re seen.


14 Q. So once you clear, does it stop?


15 A. It will stop after, yeah.

16 Q. And the chimes going off meant what to you?


17 A. That somebody was coming into the room.


18 Q. All right. Was that an unusual occurrence


19 while you were cleaning?


20 A. What, the chimes going off?


21 Q. Yes. Somebody coming into the room. If you


22 were cleaning there during the day, would that


23 startle you if that happened?


24 A. No.


25 Q. What did you do?


26 A. Well, I was upstairs, and I — I heard


27 talking, like voices. So I knew it was probably


28 Michael and Jordie. 5310


1 Q. Now, “upstairs” means — there’s a second


2 bed up there?


3 A. Yes.


4 Q. Like a loft you said?


5 A. A loft, uh-huh.


6 Q. Were you cleaning at that time?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. Okay. Do you know if the bedroom door was


9 open when you heard the chimes?


10 A. I believe so.


11 Q. And what happened then?


12 A. I kind of looked down from the stairs, from


13 the stairs up there a little, and I saw Mr. Jackson


14 with Jordie, and they were changing their clothes.


15 Like — I figured they were at the water fort. And


16 I looked down and I saw Mr. Jackson kissing on —


17 on Jordie.


18 Q. What part?


19 A. His cheek, and then his mouth, and his hand


20 was on his crotch.


21 Q. What was Jordie wearing at the time?


22 A. He had pants on.


23 Q. How long did that last?


24 A. I — when I saw that, I was quiet, and I


25 can’t even say how long that lasted.


26 Q. What did you do?


27 A. I was kind of shocked, flushed, and I stood


28 quiet where I was at. 5311


1 Q. You didn’t say anything?


2 A. I didn’t say nothing.


3 Q. For you to go and leave that room where the


4 loft is, you would have to walk down the stairs,


5 would you not?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. Would you have had to have walked past them?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. All right. What did you do?


10 A. I stayed up there very quietly, I didn’t say


11 anything. I stood very quietly. And I waited for


12 them to leave the room.


13 Q. And did they leave the room?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. How was Jordie Chandler dressed at the time?


16 A. I just remember he had pants on, and they


17 were changing shirts. He had pants on and so did


18 Mr. Jackson.


19 Q. And when you said his hand was on Jordie


20 Chandler’s crotch, on the outside of the pants or on


21 the inside of the pants?


22 A. On the outside.


23 Q. Was he kissing him the entire time that you


24 were watching?


25 A. From what I saw, yes.


26 Q. Where exactly were you at the time that you


27 heard the chimes?


28 A. Upstairs in the top loft. 5312


1 Q. And do you know where in that room?


2 A. Kind of by the stairs. By the stairs. I


3 was dusting the stairs.


4 Q. So right at the top landing?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. Did you stay up there until Jordie Chandler


7 and Mr. Jackson left the room?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Did you then go downstairs?


10 A. Yes. After I heard the chimes go off, I


11 knew they had left, and I waited and then I left.


12 Q. How long after this happened did you leave


13 your employment with Michael Jackson?


14 A. Well, I left July. I don’t know, like, the


15 months. I know I left July 31st of ‘94.

In an amazing and spectacular act of honesty, McManus denied ever seeing Jackson molest Wade Robson! When you consider how easy it would have been to just include him with the other “victims” as a way to make her allegations more salacious, it’s very surprising that she chose to exude at least some honesty and integrity in this proceeding.


16 Q. Did you ever see any incidents involving


17 Wade Robeson? You told us about Brett Barnes, and


18 Jordan Chandler, and Macaulay Culkin. Did you ever


19 see an incident involving Wade Robeson?


20 A. No.

Zonen tried to use Jackson’s Jacuzzi as seduction lair that was used to entice young boys into satisfying his sexual desires, or some trash like that, based on his incessant questioning of who and what was found in Jackson’s Jacuzzi:

21 Q. I started to ask you a bit ago about the


22 Jacuzzi. There’s a Jacuzzi that’s located in the


23 master bedroom suite. Describe for us where that


24 is.


25 A. When you go into Mr. Jackson’s room, right


26 when you go down the steps, there’s steps in his


27 room, there’s a rest room like on that side, like


28 right-hand side, where if you go around his bed, 5313


1 there’s another area where there’s another rest


2 room, and there’s a Jacuzzi.


3 Q. How large?


4 A. Oh, God, it’s big. It’s big.


5 Q. Would it hold more than one person?


6 A. Yes.


7 Q. Comfortably?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Was water kept in that Jacuzzi all the time?


10 A. No.


11 Q. What were your responsibilities with regard


12 to cleaning the Jacuzzi?


13 A. I would have to clean the Jacuzzi off and


14 on, run the water in it. But there were times when


15 I had to let the water out of the Jacuzzi.


16 Q. All right. And were there things in the


17 Jacuzzi on occasion?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. Like what?


20 A. Like Mr. Jackson’s undershorts, and a little


21 boy’s undershorts.


22 Q. Do you know which boys had been staying


23 there during that time?


24 A. A lot of the little boys were staying there


25 at that time.


26 Q. You wouldn’t know which boy’s it was, the


27 undershorts?


28 A. Brett — it could — Brett. Jordie. 5314


1 Macaulay. That happened frequently.


2 Q. They’d actually be in the Jacuzzi in the


3 water?


4 A. They’d be in the water, or sometimes they’d


5 be on the floor by the Jacuzzi.


6 Q. And these were underpants?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. And you could tell the difference between


9 the boy’s underpants and Mr. Jackson’s underpants?

10 A. Yes.


11 Q. Did you have to clean them?


12 A. Yes, I washed them.


13 Q. Did you, on occasion, wash the children’s


14 underwear as well?


15 A. At times, yes.


16 Q. If it was left behind?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. You’d pick it up and wash it?


19 A. Yes.

Here’s an example of how Jackson shared his Jacuzzi with everyone: in 1990, when Ryan White visited Neverland after being invited there by Jackson, he made good use of the Jacuzzi, and this showed how much Jackson wanted him to feel as comfortable as possible. Jackson had been “advised” that he shouldn’t have such intimate contact with White out of fear that he could contract the HIV virus (this is the same logic that forced Magic Johnson to retire in 1991), but Jackson refused to listen to them. Here’s what Arnold Klein had to say about this issue on the Larry King show in 2009:

KING: “You wanted to tell me something about Michael and Ryan White, the young boy dying of AIDS.

KLEIN: That’s very important, yes. Michael wanted to bring Ryan White to Neverland. And his plastic surgeon, a brilliant surgeon, said you can’t bring him in the Jacuzzi because you may catch AIDS.

KING: You’re kidding?

KLEIN: No, he said that. Honestly, honest to God. So Michael called me, and he said, “Will I catch AIDS if I go in the Jacuzzi with Ryan White?” I said, no way. And he was very good friends with Ryan White until he died. And that’s what people don’t know.

KING: Did he go in the Jacuzzi with him?

KLEIN: Absolutely, because, you know what? He really cared. I want to tell you, this is a person who really cared about other people. He’s unlike anyone I ever met.”


For more information on White’s relationship with Jackson, read this post.

McManus didn’t intervene in any of the alleged instances of abuse that she claimed to have witness, and didn’t tell anyone until she hired her attorney Michael Ring to represent her and the four other Neverland employees in their frivolous “wrongful termination” lawsuit.

When questioned about the authenticity of her testimony during her deposition, McManus stated that she lied and denied seeing the abuse because Jackson had “threatened” her by saying “You know, Adrian, if you ever say or you do something that I don’t like, all I have to do is tell Bill Bray or Norma Stakos, and they will take care of you, but it wouldn’t come from me.” Whatever. McManus testified that she stayed at Neverland, despite this threat from Jackson, because her husband had been laid off, and she needed the $7.50 dollars an hour that she was earning.  

23 Q. Were you interviewed by anybody from law


24 enforcement during this investigation?


25 A. Um —


26 Q. I think the question that I asked was, had


27 you been interviewed by anybody from law enforcement


28 during the course of that investigation? 5323


1 A. I believe so.


2 Q. All right. Did you become aware of the fact


3 that there had been a lawsuit filed on behalf of


4 Jordan Chandler?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. Were you called to testify in a deposition?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. And did you, in fact, give a deposition to


9 attorneys representing both Mr. Jackson and Mr.


10 Chandler?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Do you remember who those attorneys were?


13 A. Larry Feldman, Howard Weitzman, and some


14 lady named, I think, Jan Faye or —


15 Q. Were you still employed at Neverland during


16 that time?


17 A. Yes.


18 Q. During the course of that deposition, were


19 you asked if you observed any behavior by Michael


20 Jackson directed toward Jordie Chandler or anybody


21 else that you thought was inappropriate or any form


22 of sexual behavior?


23 A. Yes.


24 Q. How did you answer that question?


25 A. I didn’t tell the truth.


26 Q. What did you say?


27 A. I said I didn’t see anything.


28 Q. All right. Why did you say that in this 5324


1 deposition?


2 A. Because when — when I had taken over the


3 job for Mr. Jackson’s room, Mr. Jackson had


4 threatened me.


5 Q. What did he say to you?


6 A. He had told me, “You know, Adrian, if you


7 ever say or you do something that I don’t like, all


8 I have to do is tell Bill Bray or Norma Stakos, and


9 they will take care of you, but it wouldn’t come


10 from me. “


11 Q. Were you concerned about that statement?


12 A. I was very concerned with that.


13 Q. That was what, three years earlier?


14 A. That was right when I took the bedroom.


15 Q. Why did you continue to work there after


16 that statement?


17 A. I don’t know. I — I got caught up, I


18 guess, in — my husband was laid off, and we had a


19 house payment, and I just stayed.


20 Q. What was your salary at Neverland?


21 A. I worked 40 hours a week, but I started at


22 7.50 an hour.


23 Q. What was your salary at the time that you


24 left Neverland?


25 A. I left at 8.86 an hour.


26 Q. In the four years, your salary went up $1.80


27 an hour?


28 A. Yes. 5325


1 Q. What hours did you maintain at Neverland?


2 What was your schedule?


3 A. Sometimes 8:30 to 5:00. Sometimes 8:30 till


4 one o’clock in the morning. You never knew, kind


5 of, when you were going to go home.


6 Q. Every day you went to Neverland, you didn’t


7 know if you would go home at 5:00?


8 A. Right.


9 Q. How often was it that you were asked to stay


10 after 5:00?


11 A. There were a lot of times.


12 Q. In a week period, how many days in that week


13 would you expect to stay after 5:00?


14 A. You just never knew. It depended if there


15 were guests. Sometimes it could have been two


16 times. Three times. You just didn’t know when you


17 were going to go home.


18 Q. And you could stay actually until the early


19 morning?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. And then come back the next day at 9:00?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. Were you ever asked to work weekends?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. If you were asked to work on an evening or


26 on a weekend, and you didn’t want to, would you just


27 simply say, “I can’t do that tonight”?


28 A. No. 5326


1 Q. Why?


2 A. Because you were scheduled and you had to


3 show up.

Here is McManus’ testimony of some of the alleged abusive behavior that she claimed she was subjected to by Jackson’s OSS bodyguards, which prompted her to quit and sue Jackson for wrongful termination and sexual harassment:

1 Q. Why?


2 A. Because you were scheduled and you had to


3 show up.


4 Q. Now, you started talking about OCC — OSS.


5 A little dyslexia here, excuse me. OSS. And you


6 named the people who were involved in OSS; is that


7 right?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Up until that time, had there been people


10 armed at Neverland?


11 A. No.


12 Q. Were each of those people armed with


13 weapons?


14 A. I believe so.


15 Q. How was their behavior toward you?


16 A. They were terrible.


17 Q. How did they behave toward you? What did


18 they do?


19 A. Jimmy Van Norman would —


20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague as to time

21 and individuals.


22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Let’s begin with Jimmy, then.


23 I’ll withdraw the question. Ask you specifically


24 about Jimmy Van Norman. All right.


25 And from the time that he came on working


26 until the time you quit was approximately how many


27 months?


28 A. I would say maybe six or seven months, 5327


1 maybe.


2 Q. During that time, was his behavior toward


3 you fairly consistent?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. And describe things he would do to you, or


6 with you.


7 A. He called my home one morning when I was


8 still kind of asleep, and he woke me up with a phone


9 call. And I was going to take my son to school that


10 day. It was a Monday, I remember. And he said,


11 “Adrian” —


12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


13 MR. ZONEN: Goes to her state of mind and


14 explaining her conduct.


15 THE COURT: The state of mind being why she


16 left?


17 MR. ZONEN: And commenced a lawsuit.


18 THE COURT: All right. I’ll overrule the


19 objection.


20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. What happened in


21 this call?


22 A. He called my home early in the morning, and


23 he said, “Adrian?” And I said, “Yes?” And he says,


24 “You sound different.” And I said, “Well, I just


25 woke up” You know, I hadn’t had coffee. My voice


26 was a little bit rough.


27 And he says something about what kind of


28 underwear I wear, and when was the last time I got 5328


1 “it”; that apparently I needed it.


2 Q. Did you recognize the voice when he called?


3 A. Yes, I did.


4 Q. Did he have to identify himself?


5 A. No, he didn’t. But I knew it was him.


6 Q. What did you do when you said that?


7 A. I changed the subject, because I thought


8 maybe Mr. Jackson needed something and maybe he was


9 just calling to — to get Mr. Jackson to talk to me


10 or something. I didn’t know.


11 Q. Did he ultimately communicate a message to


12 you from Mr. Jackson?


13 A. Sometimes — not him, but sometimes the


14 other ones would.


15 Q. But on that occasion, that particular call,


16 did he ultimately communicate a communication from


17 Mr. Jackson?


18 A. No, he didn’t.


19 Q. Did he ever tell you why he was calling?


20 A. No.


21 Q. Okay. Did you hang up that phone call?


22 A. Actually, he got another call, and the phone


23 was ringing in the back, which I knew was a Merlin


24 phone, because I knew the sounds of the phones, and


25 he said, “Darn, I’ll call you right back.”


26 Q. Did he call you right back?


27 A. He didn’t call back.


28 Q. Had you received more than that one phone 5329


1 call from this person, Van Norman?


2 A. I did receive another call later, and I —


3 and I don’t know the month. Right now I can’t think


4 of the month. And it was Jimmy, and he —


5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.


6 MR. ZONEN: Same reason.


7 THE COURT: Well, you know, I’m not getting


8 to her state of mind either. All of that testimony


9 I let in for her state of mind I let in at your


10 request for her state of mind.


11 MR. ZONEN: Let me withdraw the last


12 question and let me move on.


13 THE COURT: I need an offer as to why I’ve


14 let other testimony in.


15 MR. ZONEN: Let me withdraw that question


16 right now and move on.


17 Q. Did you quit your job at Neverland?


18 A. Yes, I did quit.


19 Q. Why did you quit?


20 A. Because I was being sexually harassed. I


21 had death threats. I was being chased in the house


22 with a stun gun. More like abuse. And mentally I


23 could not deal with it.


24 Q. Was this all the new collection of guards


25 that had been brought in?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Did you ever talk with Mr. Jackson about


28 what was going on? 5330


1 A. I don’t believe so, with that.


2 Q. And why not?


3 A. I believe he left. He had left later, maybe


4 in February. And Marcus Johnson left with him with


5 the bodyguards, but there was still bodyguards


6 around, so Mr. Jackson wasn’t really around where


7 you could tell him, so –

In this excerpt, McManus described her motivation for suing Jackson, and the counterclaim that Jackson filed against her. She was accused by Jackson of stealing an expensive drawing, but she claimed that she found it in a trash can in the recreational room. McManus did not file for bankruptcy, unlike the other four Neverland employees, so to this day she still owes her portion of the $1.6 million dollar judgment against her! (To Jackson’s credit, he had a lien put on her paycheck during her tenure at Sears.)

8 Q. What made you decide to file a lawsuit


9 against Mr. Jackson?


10 A. When I realized that I didn’t have to work


11 in a job where I was being sexually harassed, and


12 abused, and having to deal with death threats and —


13 Q. Did you talk with Mr. — who was your


14 attorney? Who represented you?


15 A. Actually, we had Michael Gray and Michael


16 Barber, and we had Michael Ring and Kelly Frances.


17 Q. All from the same firm?


18 A. At the time, yes.


19 Q. Who was the lead attorney in that case?


20 A. Michael Barber. And Michael Ring (sic)


21 ended up, I guess, getting out of it. I don’t know


22 what happened there, but Michael Ring ended up


23 taking over.


24 Q. Michael Ring?


25 A. Michael Ring.


26 Q. Was he the one who tried the case?


27 A. Yes.


28 Q. That case went on for quite some number of 5331


1 months, didn’t it?


2 A. Yes, it did.


3 Q. Did you quit your job before or after


4 seeking counsel from Michael Ring or any other


5 lawyer?


6 A. I believe I quit my job first while I went


7 out on doctor’s care.


8 Q. You were not the only plaintiff in that


9 suit, were you?


10 A. No.


11 Q. Who were the other plaintiffs?


12 A. There was Melanie Bagnall, Kassim Abdool,


13 Sandie Domz, and Ralph Chacon.


14 Q. Was there a counterclaim that was filed


15 against you? Were you accused of anything?


16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What were you accused of?


18 A. I believe of — of, I think, taking Super


19 Soaker water guns. Taking candy, balloons, posters,


20 sunglasses.


21 Q. Were you accused of taking a drawing?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. All right. Tell us about the drawing.


24 A. The drawing, actually, I had found it in the


25 trash outside by the rec room. It was a trash area


26 there. And I had taken trash out from the house,


27 from the kitchen, and I saw it in there. There was


28 a bag out there, and it was just open and it was a 5332


1 sketch. It wasn’t a big sketch. It was a small


2 sketch.


3 Q. About how big?


4 A. Oh, gosh. Probably — I don’t even know.


5 Maybe about that big. Maybe like that. It wasn’t


6 very big.


7 Q. Six inches by five inches —


8 A. Yeah.


9 Q. — something like that?


10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.


11 THE WITNESS: Yeah, something like that.


12 THE COURT: Sustained.


13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Can you give us an estimate


14 on the record, the size of it? Because you were


15 holding your hands out.


16 A. Maybe three-by-five. I don’t know.


17 Something like that.


18 Q. All right. You said you found it in the


19 trash?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Where?


22 A. Outside. Outside by the rec room. There


23 was a trash area back there.


24 Q. Did you know who did the drawing?


25 A. I didn’t know who did it, but I thought —


26 well, maybe. I was really — I don’t know who did


27 it.


28 Q. Who did you believe did it? 5333


1 A. Um —


2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; calls for


3 speculation.


4 MR. ZONEN: Explains why she took it.


5 THE COURT: Actually, you know, we’re having


6 the same problem that when Mr. Mesereau was asking


7 questions. You seem to be going into the


8 allegations in the Complaint, which — the facts of


9 the lawsuit, which I’ve said we can’t do. So I’m


10 going to ask you to go into a different area.


11 MR. ZONEN: All right.


12 Q. After many months in trial, was there a


13 resolution to that case?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. What happened?


16 A. We lost.


17 Q. Each of you?


18 A. Yes.


19 Q. As to all counts?


20 A. Yes.


21 Q. Was there a judgment against you?


22 A. Yes.


23 Q. For a great deal of money?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. How much?


26 A. 1.6 million.


27 Q. Did you go into bankruptcy afterward?


28 A. No. 5334


1 Q. So that debt still exists today?


2 A. Yes.


3 Q. You owe Mr. Jackson $1.6 million?


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. Is that for all the attorney’s fees and the


6 court costs?


7 A. Yes.


8 Q. Have you paid any part of that?


9 A. A lien was put on my paycheck when I was


10 working at Sears and there was money taken out, but


11 I don’t recall how much.


12 Q. Okay. Is there a lien currently on your


13 paycheck where you currently work?


14 A. For the lawsuit?


15 Q. For this lawsuit.


16 A. No.


17 Q. Do you anticipate that will happen?


18 A. I don’t —


19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Calls for


20 speculation; relevance.


21 THE COURT: Sustained.


22 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Are you concerned that that


23 will happen?


24 MR. MESEREAU: Same objection.


25 THE COURT: Sustained.

Next, McManus recounted the details of her tabloid interview with Splash, which was orchestrated as a way to help finance their lawsuit against Jackson. She also mentioned another lawsuit that she and her family were involved in, which prompted Judge Melville to sarcastically ask how many lawsuits are they going to cover!

For whatever reason, McManus didn’t hire a lawyer to represent her during that other civil trial that she was asked about; instead, she represented herself! As you can imagine, she lost the case and a judgment of $17,000 was entered against both her and her husband.

26 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Had there been a deposition


27 that was taken of you prior to the commencement of


28 that lawsuit? 5335


1 A. Do you mean like before, with Jordie


2 Chandler?


3 Q. Yes.


4 A. Yes.


5 Q. In the course of that deposition, did you


6 disclose the events that took place that you’ve


7 disclosed to this jury?


8 A. No, I did not.


9 Q. Are you talking about the Jordie Chandler


10 lawsuit, deposition?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Was there a subsequent — another deposition


13 that was done in the lawsuit of your case, Kassim


14 Abdool and everyone else against Michael Jackson and


15 everyone else?


16 A. Yes.


17 Q. In that deposition, did you disclose what


18 you saw?


19 A. Yes, I did.


20 Q. At some point during the course of that


21 lawsuit, either before the commencement of trial or


22 during, were you involved with others in selling a


23 story to a tabloid?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. Which tabloid was it?


26 A. Actually, there was a man named Gary Morgan,


27 and he was from Splash.


28 Q. What is Splash? 5336


1 A. I don’t know — I don’t know if he’s


2 affiliated with different — I’m not even really


3 sure. I just know that he sold stuff.


4 Q. But it was a tabloid?


5 A. I believe so.


6 Q. Did you actually have an interview with


7 them?


8 A. Yes.


9 Q. Did they give you money?


10 A. Me personally?


11 Q. Yes.

12 A. They were — well, can I explain, because I


13 don’t —


14 Q. Who did the interview? In other words, how


15 many of the plaintiffs involved that you’ve


16 identified did this interview?


17 A. Everybody was there, including our attorney.


18 Q. Did he participate in the interview as well,


19 your attorney?


20 A. He was there with — yeah.


21 Q. Who is it who negotiated what would be paid?


22 A. I believe Michael Ring.


23 Q. Did you have any say in that at all?


24 A. No, I didn’t.


25 Q. Was it understood that some of the money


26 would be going to you, or all of the money?


27 A. From what I recall, all of the money went


28 into a trust in Michael Ring’s name in order to 5337


1 fight the lawsuit against Mr. Jackson.


2 Q. Did any of that money actually go to you?


3 A. At one time, yes.


4 Q. And how much was that?


5 A. A thousand dollars.


6 Q. Do you know how much money in total was


7 turned over to Michael Ring?


8 A. I would honestly — I mean, my best


9 recollection, I’d say probably maybe 32,000 or more.


10 Q. And did that go to finance the lawsuit?


11 A. Yes.


12 Q. Were you involved in another lawsuit at that


13 time or prior to that time?


14 A. Yes.


15 Q. What was that?


16 A. Well, it had to do with my husband’s


17 sister-in-law.


18 Q. And what happened?


19 A. My husband was — my husband had two half


20 brothers. They had different fathers. And one of


21 the half brothers was real close with my husband,


22 and he ended up diabetic and he lost his eyes and


23 his kidneys and they had him on dialysis. He went


24 blind.


25 And he was married, and his wife and him, I


26 guess they had a very — a relationship that wasn’t


27 very good. From what I understand, she started


28 fooling around with a radio talk show guy, and she 5338


1 got pregnant —


2 Q. Tell us what happened with regard to the


3 lawsuit.


4 A. I’m sorry.


5 Q. Who was suing who?


6 THE COURT: How many lawsuits are we going to


7 cover?


8 (Laughter.)


9 THE WITNESS: I’m sorry.


10 We got sued.


11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Okay. For what? The


12 resolution of his estate?


13 A. Actually, my husband was left as a


14 beneficiary, and my husband got kind of fed up with


15 her. And that was a family thing on their side of


16 the family. And I kind of just got drug into it,


17 but —


18 Q. Did you have counsel representing you in


19 this lawsuit?


20 A. No, we didn’t.


21 Q. Was it a jury trial?


22 A. No.


23 Q. Was it a court trial?


24 A. Yes.


25 Q. You were representing yourself?


26 A. Yes.


27 Q. Was the other side represented by counsel?


28 A. Yes. 5339


1 Q. Was there a judgment entered against you or


2 your husband?


3 A. I believe 17,000 from each one of us.


4 Q. Was this from money from the estate?


5 A. Yes.


6 Q. Did you pay that?


7 A. I made payments, and I don’t even recall how


8 much I made payments for. And then I couldn’t do it


9 no longer.


10 Q. All right. Did you lose your home in this


11 process?


12 A. No. We sold our home.


13 Q. And are renting today?


14 A. Yes.

McManus was questioned again about the drawing that she admitted to taking from Neverland, which she subsequently sold to the Splash tabloid for $1,000 dollars. She claimed that she found Jackson’s drawing in the trash can, and sold it to Splash at the request of her attorney Michael Ring.  

15 Q. Do you know anybody in the Arvizo family?


16 Do you know that name?


17 A. No.


18 Q. Do you know a Janet Arvizo?


19 A. No.


20 Q. Gavin Arvizo?


21 A. No.


22 Q. Star Arvizo?


23 A. No.


24 Q. Davellin Arvizo?


25 A. No.


26 Q. I had asked you earlier about a drawing.


27 Was that drawing sold to someone during the course


28 of your litigation? 5340


1 A. Yes.


2 Q. And who was it sold to?


3 A. Well, actually, at Michael Ring’s office,


4 our attorney, Gary Morgan had asked if we had any


5 photographs or pictures or something, and I said,


6 “Well,” you know, “there’s a sketch that I found, I


7 found in the trash.” I told him, “You can have it.”


8 It was just a sketch. It wasn’t a — it wasn’t a


9 Polaroid, you know, it was just ink. And I gave it


10 to him. And I guess he went and sold it.


11 Q. Who sold it?


12 A. Gary Morgan.


13 Q. And Gary Morgan is who?


14 A. He’s from Splash.


15 Q. Did you get any money for that?


16 A. Actually, I think that when — I believe


17 that’s where that thousand dollars might have come


18 from.


19 Q. From the sale of that picture?


20 A. I think so.


21 Q. Did you represent that as a drawing that had


22 been done by Michael Jackson?


23 A. I believe I might have said it, that I


24 thought it was done by Michael Jackson.


25 Q. Did you believe it was?


26 A. I did.


27 Q. Why did you have it in the first place? Why


28 did you take it? 5341


1 A. Because I found it in the trash and I


2 figured it was in the trash, so if something’s in


3 the trash, I mean, somebody might not have wanted


4 it.


5 Q. Did you take it because you believed he did


6 it or did you take it because you liked it?


7 A. I took it because I liked it, because I


8 liked to draw and I thought it was pretty neat.

Jackson was an avid drawer and artist, and loved to sketch numerous types of artwork. In May 2012, his mother Katherine Jackson displayed a collection of Jackson’s art to CNN’s Piers Morgan, and it can be viewed here:

To be continued:

11 Comments leave one →
  1. Elizabeth Stanley permalink
    May 27, 2020 4:05 pm

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  2. stacy2 permalink
    December 14, 2012 7:35 pm

    It’s still amazing to me how none of these liars were charged with perjury.

    • December 15, 2012 7:43 am

      They weren’t charged with perjury in the 2005 trial because they were the prosecution witnesses and it is the judge that has to charge them with perjury.However Sneddon and his prosecution team should have been sanctioned after their testimony or the testimony should never have been allowed in the first place. It was a proven judicial fact that these people and their attorneys were sanctioned for lying in depositions and on the stand in another court.It was determined that they had no intention to tell the truth once they took the oath so they never should have been heard in another court. The really shameful thing is that everyone knew that they lied in the civil suit and the lies were no different this time aroud. I am still dumbfounded by Sneddon prosecuting this in the first place. Putting these people on the stand only prove that he was bringing a vindictive prosecution to tria.

    • nannorris permalink
      December 15, 2012 8:45 am

      Even after this trial , Sneddon was still going after MJ..Just incredible..People get up on the stand and actually admit they previously lied under oath and that is just fine with Sneddon , when they are now saying what he wanted to hear.So you have a bunch of self admitted liars and for this, Sneddon brings him to court.
      But hey, the prosecutors asked for the lessor alcohol charges , when their case was tanking., but nobody cared that the stewardess admitted to serving the underage girls on the plane when she knew they were under age.It is insane.I cant imagine how MJ felt , that he was getting railroaded and all the press was looking the other way.

      • lynande51 permalink*
        December 15, 2012 2:58 pm

        The press didn’t just look the other way, they conspired to keep the testimony and the facts of some of that testimony a secret from the public. Not just the American public but everywhere around the world. And it started with Bashir and Dimond.

  3. nannorris permalink
    December 13, 2012 5:20 pm

    So McManus left when someone phoned her about her underwear, but not when she saw children being molested ? unbelievable scum
    I also think it is interesting that she claimjs JC always slept in Jacksons room , because his own mother will testify that he didnt end up staying in MJ room until he kept asking to, he had been staying with June and wanted to hang out with all the other kids…
    No wonder Mesereau didnt want this trial televised..They would have been able to watch others and adjust their story

    • nannorris permalink
      December 13, 2012 5:24 pm

      Zonen must have talked to this witness to make sure she would mention MJ had primates running around, to make MJ look weird, and the infamous “secret closet” , that a lot of rich seem to have for fear of home invasion..But for MJ it is something sinister , even though , I dont recall anyone talking about any sinister stuff happening in it..ugh

  4. December 12, 2012 8:09 am

    * Just a little thing, it’s spelled Robson without the ‘e’.

    • sanemjfan permalink
      December 12, 2012 9:55 pm

      Thanks! I’ll fix it right now!

      By the way, the reason I misspelled it in my commentary is because the court reporter misspelled it in her transcription of McManus’s testimony. However, when Wade testified on May 5th, 2005, his name was spelled correctly.


  1. May 9th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Francin Contreras, Gayle Goforth, Violet Silva, Ramon Velasco, Joseph Marcus, Part 1 of 4 | Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0
  2. April 7th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Ralph Chacon (Direct & Cross Examination), Adrian McManus (Direct & Cross Examination), Part 3 of 5 « Michael Jackson Vindication 2.0

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