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The Blog Wars: Addendum

July 14, 2015

In the first post titled The Bog Wars I posted a series of emails and comments from the writer of DSSL and the group of people from a site once called Wacko Facts now MJ Facts.

In this continuation I will show another set of emails that we received at VMJ from one of her constant readers and commenters, someone who uses the screen name of Len. Len was also shown commenting on Topix in a screen shot about the link that she was shown by someone regarding David and Charles . This person was DSSL’s “connection” to someone that knew someone that had once worked with Michael.The emails to us were unsolicited.

Len has written for the MJ Facts site recently and I addressed that here. Len has also started Tweeting more than commenting on Topix. You will see many commonalities in the speech of Len and DSSL, they are however two different people, both female. Theses emails went unnoticed because it was believed that the sender was DSSL.

Here are the emails from Len:

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:20 PM, CLS < wrote:

Name: CLS
I know I’m going to make myself very unpopular with you, the web master. But I used to be unsure whether or not Michael Jackson really did molest those boys or if he was just so mentally ill, he didn’t understand why it was inappropriate for a grown man to have sleepovers with children. Then I met somebody in the camp of a very well-known person in the music industry, who was very familiar with Michael. He told me Michael was a pedophile and went into great detail about what happened and how the family knew about it but tried to cover up for him. He went into more details than I wanted to hear. I also met somebody who handled child-molestation cases and had read the documents, including those not available to the public. He then told me how to access documents that are available for public viewing. This removed all doubt. Bear in mind I have never bothered to read any of the books on this subject, by the so-called experts. I checked for myself.
You can spin the obvious evidence as much as you wish. But I want to know what you have at stake in trying to insist he was innocent because I do not understand celebrity worship. Michael was human, not the new messiah. Knowing the truth about Michael Jackson doesn’t make me a hater. I still like his music. If anything I feel sorrier for him. He had a tortured mind from the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse he suffered as a child, and he lived a tragic life. But I take it as a lesson that the cycle of abuse will continue if the abused don’t seek therapy to heal the trauma.
It’s taken a lot of courage to write you. I’ve read the comments by what I refer to as the rabid worshipers of the Church of Michael Jackson, and they scare me. They are ugly and inflammatory toward anyone who even suggests Michael was human and not a god. They are also threatening, and I would be afraid to meet them on the street. My personal safety is important to me. However, I would simply like to know what is inside your mind that needs to canonize another human being you never knew. What is it you need from a celebrity that fulfills your life? What is missing from your life that needs to cling to celebrity status?
I don’t know if you’ll have a calm answer for me, or if you’ll strip my humanity and aim for personal attacks of an individual you don’t know. But bear in mind I still see you as human and would merely like an explanation.
Time: Tuesday October 19, 2010 at 4:20 pm

VMJ response

—–Original Message—–
From: MJ Vindication team
Sent: Oct 19, 2010 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Vindicating Michael] Contact Us
CLS, we here are not discussing any gossip which may be told by this and that man in Michael’s surrounding.
I also have an article written by a former child who was in a video studio with Michael while a new video was made and who says that all those around Michael thought he was a p. They didn’t know a thing but thought they did and were even sure that they knew.
“How else can it be if he is with a child every day”? they thought. And what if Michael didn’t want to associate with these guys around him – who played cards and drank beer during the pauses (which were many as this child describes) and made dirty jokes openly about Michael? They practically laughed in his face saying they would not stay alone with him for fear he does something to them.
If these are the people who are your sources – no thank you. I don’t associate with such people in real life and I am not going to start doing it in the virtual one. Cynics are just not my cup of tea.
However if you have any documents we are ready to look into them. We are not stretching the truth here to cover up things – we are establishing the truth.

CLS/Len Response:

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, > wrote:


I wish the information I had was just gossip. It made me feel sick to hear it. If I can ever get permission to tell you who spoke, I will. My concern, however, is said individual would be crucified by those who don’t want to know an ugly truth. In regards to the documents, they are very easy to access. Just go to the Santa Barbara County and Los Angeles County websites, and you can download publicly available documents. Bear in mind, the criminologist I mentioned also read the documents that were not made available to the public, due to his position. But facing the truth about what Michael Jackson did doesn’t make anyone a hater. It just means they see him as human and not a god. It means just being realistic and enjoying his music for what it is.

But you still aren’t answering my questions about what you have at stake, in all of this. Why do you need to see a mere mortal as if he were the new messiah? Is something missing in your life that causes you to need a celebrity to worship? I need to know why you, and others like you, are so obsessed with a celebrity. I find your brand of fandom both intriguing and frightening. But I want to understand it. Right now, it comes across as insanity.


VMJ response:

—–Original Message—–
From: MJ Vindication team
Sent: Oct 20, 2010 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Vindicating Michael] Contact Us


Giving a person’s name is not important  – being a foreigner I would not know who he is anyway, so names do not have an effect on me. What I am interested is the documents. I’ve been to the LA county webside and have seen ALL the documents provided there – this is where we found that Ray Chandler was fighting the subpoena from MJ’s team. Ray said his book was based on documents, but when MJ’s defense demanded he presents them in court he fought this chance tooth and nail.

If you are speaking about any other site with ‘damning’ documents please provide the link and we will look into them.

Answering your question about what is at stake – it is the truth which is at stake. This is what I am really worshipping and if in the process of establishing the truth Michael Jackson turns out to be a pure human being, ruthelessly crucified by the world for more than 15 years, consequently a saint and probably a messiah, so be it.

At the moment a thorough scrutiny of each available fact has proved to us that Michael Jackson was slandered on an exceptionally massive scale, that is why our investigation is slowly turning into the direction of finding out “Why”?

And why are you asking? Isn’t it natural for people to want to know the truth?


P.S. Since we are aiming at as much transparency as it is possible, please note that this exchange of messages may be published in the blog.

CLS response:


I am honored you felt my emails to you were important enough to post on a public blog. It gave me a good laugh when I read it! I already know Michael Jackson was a pedophile, so your comments about my supposed fear made me laugh even louder. I’m grinning from ear to ear, even as I type this. However, what fascinates me so much about your website is the religious fervency of the posted blogs I enjoy reading when I have nothing to do, during my lunch break. It’s the same language people in church use to write about Jesus. This is truly a source of entertainment, which then makes me want to know what is going on inside the minds of the Michael Jackson cult following, especially since most of them – with a few exceptions – are teenage girls, who did not witness Michael’s rise and fall from glory. He was the darling of the press, until his constant plastic surgery and increasingly odd behavior made it impossible for anyone to ignore.

The person on the inside is well known. So, if you didn’t know who that person was, I’d have to say you were living in the stone age. Have you honestly read all the documents? When the criminologist who handles child-molestation cases contacted me, he said there are very specific item to read: the victim testimonies and the police reports. Since I have read legal documents before, these made for quite a read. What I found interesting about the Arvizo case is that the items described by the minors were exactly where they said they were!

I would also recommend reading the court document Team Michael successfully pushed through to seal previous documents about any previous molestation case and not allow them to be used in court. In addition, if you thoroughly read the settlement case set up my Team Michael with the Chandlers, you’ll notice the obsession with protecting Michael’s image and money-producing ability was more important than the accusations themselves. There were also constant threats of lawsuits if the Chandlers talked. Now the paragraph for Michael that echoed the paragraph for the Chandlers to not talk was interesting because Michael violated it, by his public interview with Diane Sawyer. The clause stating the Chandlers had to notify Michael if they were subpeoned is a spit in the face of the legal system. I’m surprised they agreed to it. Then again, Pellicano was involved, and he is now in prison.

In addition, the redacted FBI files showed two witnesses refused to testify in court. I would love to see what the other half of the files have to say because it would more than likely shed even more light. I would want the unedited version. Right now, the FBI prove nothing about Michael’s innocence or guilt. They just raise even more questions about the missing information.

Oh, the criminologist also said the original testimony is used in these cases because children are easily intimidated into changing their original statements, in the courtroom. But if you have read the documents I mentioned and still think Michael Jackson is the new messiah, then I have a strong suspicion it wouldn’t matter if anyone in the music industry with clout and the Jacksons themselves told you he molested children. You would either continue to deny it, or the realization would complete the collapse of your mind.

The so-called truth about Michael Jackson shouldn’t be important to you. The Jackson family more than likely could care less about you. Most people know or at least suspect he was a pedophile, but they still like his music and buy it, anyway. It’s what is inside your mind (and others like you) that desperately obsesses over this that intrigues me. What should be important to you is focusing on your own life and not wasting your time on celebrities. Nobody is a saint or the new messiah. That Michael was mentally ill, addicted to plastic surgery, had sleepovers with other people’s children, and was a drug addict doesn’t make him anything but human.


VMJ response:

—–Original Message—–
From: MJ Vindication team
Sent: Oct 21, 2010 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Vindicating Michael] Contact Us
I’ve made you angry?

CLS response


Angry? Not at all! If I were offended, I would have told you so. In reality, I’m still laughing. It’s very interesting to see how you spin things, and I enjoy reading it, a lot. But you still haven’t answered my queary about why you are so obsessed with a celebrity’s problems with little boys. What is taking place in your life that makes you need this? What kind of life are you actually living?

By the way, in case you have never seen an uncircumsized man’s penis, let me help you understand a few facts. The length of the foreskin varies from man to man, the way the size of a woman’s breasts vary from woman to woman. In addition, when a penis is erect, the foreskin pulls back, making it appear circumsized. Regardless, Jordan Chandler’s description of the blotch on Michael’s erect penis was accurate.

And before I forget, extortion is a crime. Had the Chandlers lied about the sexual abuse in order to get money, they would have found themselves in criminal court, especially by somebody like Michael Jackson. Now, have you read the documents I recommended?


As you notice some of the same themes run through the conversation that also ran through those of DSSL. Both believe or would like us to believe that they KNOW Michael was molested as a child and as highlighted in the previous post they visited boychat sites to read what was written there.

Len also called fans, rabid and crazy. even going as far as saying that she feared for her safety should she meet one on the street.All comments like this are common statements by the group of trolls from Topix. Topix if you remember was the only place one could originally comment on MJ Facts.

Len was also a source that DSSL used for information regarding Michael because of her claim that she once dated someone that knew someone that used to work with Michael not for him but with him.

The following are screenshots from Len in the comment discussion on DSSL.

Len on DSSL abou tthe mouthpiece 2

That is the one where she confirms that she was the one with a source in the “music business”.

Len on DSSL abou tthe mouthpiece

Len on Rabid fans

This one is where she discusses in the comments about how she feels about fans. She and DSSL had a falling out when DSSL equated pedophilia to being gay. From DSSL

Desiree and GayPedophiles

 This is what Len had to say about her thoughts on homosexuality and pedophiles.


And here is a discussion on Topix between the two of them.

Des on Topix answering acusation 1

I would like to point out that what it appears DSSL and Len had in common was a hatred of the fans and friends of Michael Jackson.

They seem to have had a falling out but I doubt that it is genuine. The reason for my doubts is that Len and recently started on Twitter, going to defend another “friend” from Topix with the screen name Jina Wild. From this I find out that that MJ Facts on twitter made the same claim that DSSL made in emails that one of her readers had been in contact with a former Trans America insurance employee that was mentioned in articles relating to the Michael Jackson settlement.

MJ Facts friends with people from Trans America Insurance

When Len started on Twitter she was there to push the Prosecution legal motions that were filed in the Michael Jackson case that these Trolls have always said was evidence that Michael was guilty. Len stated on Twitter that she was a compliance regulator and that is how she knew how to read and interpret what was written in them.

Len as Compliance Regulator

This is what we do know about this group. That they originally posted on both MJ Facts and DSSL either as contributors or commenters. They seek out Michael’s fans on various forum blogs and social media sites to start conversation that detract from the topic being discussed and to provoke an angry response. This is the classic tactic of a troll. These are also the same people that are running and commenting on a Facebook page called Supporters of Wade Robson and other Victims of MJ. The say that they are advocates for victims of abuse.

In my next post I will show the connection between MJ Facts, DSSL and the Supporters of Wade Robson. Knowing who these people really are and what they have done in the past, one has to ask why Wade Robson uses trolls that promote the tabloids version of the Michael Jackson allegations.


20 Comments leave one →
  1. Elizabeth pamela walker permalink
    May 1, 2020 12:11 pm


  2. Jan permalink
    December 25, 2015 6:04 pm

    See the rubbish again:

  3. Manny permalink
    December 6, 2015 12:33 pm

    These topix people that you are speaking of are evil mean spirited bullies. Try saying anything in favor of Michael Jackson and they pounce on you. They have done many horrible things to posters such as find out your real name and locations and post it. Stay far away. It is not worth one minute of your time. Michael Jackson was innocent. All they want to do is abuse MJ and anyone who defends him.

  4. lynande51 permalink*
    December 1, 2015 5:58 pm

    He was marked as spam and I am going to move your comment to pending so he doesn’t see it and start again.

  5. TGlendaDerWitch permalink
    July 16, 2015 11:14 pm

    “He had a tortured mind from the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse he suffered as a child.”

    These haters can’t even get their stories straight. Loony Len says Mike was abused and when her bestest buddy on twitter @gbyland tweets

    @mamgwyllt @LenIsDisgusted @coastal_girl So which disorder makes ppl fantasize abt a popstar being abused?

    all she replies with is {*guffaw*}

    If this wasn’t so dayum stupid it would be funny.

    • lynande51 permalink*
      July 23, 2015 7:43 am

      It’s a ruse there isn’t a word of truth in what they say on Twitter either about Desiree or to her because DSSL took over as the primary writer for MJ Facts in January of 2012 shortly after the last post on her blog about the Jordan Chandler Settlement. She and Len worked on it together since Len says that she is a former Compliance Regulator she thinks she knows what legal documents mean.

  6. Jamal permalink
    July 15, 2015 7:54 pm

    You are not going far enough you also need to investigate people like sleepingboy Octopus Jina Wild Badman84 Pop Tart all of them are from Topix and Mike Par TJPTheGreat ymlaen2016 Gentleman & Scholar Alfonso all from Twitter and Oh Well DUI & morphing trolls on radaronline they are all in it together possibly the same person or just a couple of people!!

    • July 16, 2015 1:31 pm

      Exactly, that’s what I said there aren’t as many as they would have you think and don’t forget NFL Fan, Butterballs aka INDAHouse,Lawl,Billy Da Kid (although the last 2 haven’t posted in a while),And others that I can’t think of right now, but I agree that they switch nics a lot

    • lynande51 permalink*
      July 16, 2015 2:36 pm

      I know that they use multiple screen names and I also know who they are.It isn’t my intention to give THEM attention, personally. My intention is to show the connection between their beliefs and Wade Robson and James Safechucks “stories” because absolutely everyone of their claims were in the public and were available to be looked up by these people to help Wade Robson and James Safechuck script their stories.

      • July 17, 2015 4:27 pm

        They are “scripted” by lies of the others that have already been proven so.
        They even talk about them fake FBI Files that even the Demon herself Diane Dimond wont touch. especially Octopus he’s unreal he talks about EVERY INCH of MJ’s body even his private parts (Sorry for language but this is how he talks- Penis and ball sack-@$$ hole) EVERYTHING he’s sick he needs to be investigated next to tell you the truth. For someone who claims to hate MJ so much he sure is on all parts of MJ’s body 24-7-365 and that’s no lie he’s ALWAYS on topix. and never works-sleeps- or spends any time with his “wife” yes he claims to be married IDK who would put up with his obsession for MJ and not leave his @$$ I’m sorry for the language but these people do this to me.

    • Haters Beware permalink
      August 29, 2015 9:01 pm

      Jina Wild is a alcoholic. Alfonso is a fat slob he looks like jubba the hut. Badman84 is a antigovernment anti everything bisexual radical. Gentleman & Scholar is a former homosexual escort. JessicaSideways is a mtf hater of Christians she thinks her poop don’t stink. NFL Fan is a unemployed waste of oxygen. INDAHouse is a thirsty troller he was the Danbury CT troll. StoneGrooved is half the facebookers posting on Mike Par’s page.

  7. Mado permalink
    July 15, 2015 2:38 pm

    Thank you. ♥

  8. Dee permalink
    July 15, 2015 3:19 am

    As always, absolutely brilliant work, Helena and all.

    Whoever this/these people are, they clearly don’t understand that they are exactly what they are accusing you of. The fact that they seem to know about the allegations, the fact that they have seemingly trawled files and spoken to unnamed person/persons, indicates that they are the ones with an obsession. Maybe you should ask what it is in their lives, that they feel the need to further damage the reputation of a relentlessly vilified – and innocent – man?

    Your responses are brilliant. Your work is phenomenal. I am sure that I speak on behalf of all those who know the truth – both those just discovering Michael and those like myself, who have been defending him for decades. Since the bulk of Michael’s fans consist of the latter, it makes me laugh to see them suggest that we’re all teenagers in order to verify their claims that we know very little about truth. As VMJ has proven time and time again, the ultimate truth cannot be stifled.

    Love you guys.

    • Mado permalink
      July 15, 2015 2:36 pm

      Dee this is a great reply. Thanks.

  9. July 14, 2015 11:50 pm

    This is only that one hater not 2 Len Is Disgusted from Topix and mjfacts. I know this because I know how she talks/writes and trust me it’s her, she’s obsessed with them Edited Legal Docs and mjfacts and passes them off as real and from a criminologist. which is bull because if there was any evidence MJ was guilty they wouldn’t have hidden it, and MJ would have been found guilty. Len is accusing the FBI and others of hiding evidence. There is no evidence in any of the cases because if there were someone whether the FBI or the Trial in 2005 or Sneddon would have found something/anything to put him away and he didn’t and trust me Sneddon tried he literally turned the World upside down to look for something and he couldn’t find anything.

    • lynande51 permalink*
      July 15, 2015 3:29 pm

      No the first one is Desiree from Desiree Speaks So Listen Blog. That blog was closed by court order late last August. It was closed through blogger by court order because that is the only way that Blogger will close an account as I was told by others that tried to have different blogs closed. I was not the one that had it closed for dumb, dumber and dumbest.She was also the main person tweeting for the account RealMJFacts on twitter.There is more than one from the site called MJ Facts. If you believe them there are six of them and a few fringe elements.

      • Margaretha permalink
        July 15, 2015 8:37 pm

        Indeed it is goed to hear you closed that Desiree Speaks So Listen Blog down. I hope it was not too hard to get the court order. Well done!

      • July 16, 2015 1:44 am

        Good for you getting that one closed down, I hope you can do the same for Topix and mjfacts because they are run by the same crowd and neither site would let you post the truth on them. oh ok sorry but I know this Len more then I do Desiree. Des’s is still tweeting with RealMJFacts I see her doing it all the time. and no I don’t believe it’s 6 haters there are less than that because all of them are famous for switching nics to make it look like there are more of them then there really is. I know about Topix and am familiar with both.that’s why I say it’s the same person{s} that run them.

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