April 18th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Janet Arvizo (Cross-Examination), Part 1 of 4
Mesereau’s cross examination continued today and he started by questioning Janet about her legal squabbles with her ex-husband David. She was represented pro bono by attorney Michael Manning from 2001-2003, and of course Janet’s unnecessary testimony of being represented pro bono was stricken from the record! Mesereau questioned her about Manning’s representation of her during that time period because he wanted to show the jury how Janet had yet another opportunity to notify someone of her alleged “imprisonment”, yet didn’t do so. Janet asserted attorney-client privilege, and didn’t answer the question.
17 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued)
18 BY MR. MESEREAU:
19 Q. Ms. Arvizo, throughout January, February,
20 March and April of 2003, you were being represented
21 by counsel in proceedings related to your ex-husband
22 David, correct?
23 A. Of what year?
24 Q. 2003.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And without going into much of the detail,
27 you were represented by a lawyer who you’ve
28 mentioned already named Michael Manning, correct? 6546
1 A. For what?
2 Q. For your request for spousal support, your
3 issues involving David Arvizo and your domestic
4 proceeding, correct?
5 A. This is correct.
6 Q. And documents related to your requests for
7 spousal support from David and other issues related
8 to your divorce were being periodically filed by
9 Attorney Michael Manning, correct?
10 A. I don’t understand his question very well,
11 but something about spousal support and child
12 support, that was in effect for already almost —
13 almost, my best estimate, for almost three years.
14 We had been waiting for that court date for years
15 already. That’s my best estimate.
16 Q. And how long do you recall Michael Manning
17 representing you?
18 A. I think, my best estimate, since 2001. I
19 was way at the bottom of his list because I — he
20 was providing his services for free.
21 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
22 THE COURT: Stricken after the date.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: So would it be accurate to
24 say, based on what you remember, Attorney Michael
25 Manning was representing you in 2001, 2002, 2003,
26 and 2004 on issues related to your ex-husband?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And various income and expense declarations, 6547
1 various declarations, various documents were
2 periodically being filed with the court by Attorney
3 Manning on your behalf, right?
4 A. If I clearly — if I understand his
5 question, I think with Mr. Manning, that was handled
6 in a bulk, and I think it was probably in the first
7 meeting that I had ever met with him, and I held
8 onto those things. That’s the best I can remember.
9 So he did it when he had time because, like I said,
10 I was at the bottom of his list.
11 Q. Would it be accurate to say that this lawyer
12 filed documents on your behalf on October 15th,
13 2001, October 16th, 2001, November 6th, 2001,
14 January 10th, 2002, April of 2002, June 25th, 2002,
15 January 6th, 2003, January 23rd, 2003, March 5th,
16 2003, and that there was a hearing on March 11th,
17 2003, involving your issues with David? Does that
18 sound accurate to you?
19 A. I don’t know what he’s trying to say. But
20 like I said, in the initial meeting with him, to the
21 best of my recollection, it was handled like in a
22 package, he had like a package already made. So
23 when he had time, he went ahead and took care of it
24 himself. Because he made me aware, since he was
25 doing it for free, it was as he could, so I had to
26 be patient.
27 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
28 showed you all those filed documents that were filed 6548
1 with the court?
2 A. Yes. He filed them accordingly to when he
3 had time, because I was not a paying customer.
4 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
5 THE COURT: After “Yes,” I’ll strike.
6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, have you had
9 a chance to look at those court documents?
10 A. Just the date on them, the same ones he just
12 Q. Do they refresh your recollection that your
13 attorney was filing documents throughout those years
14 on your behalf?
15 A. Like I said, he went — according to when he
16 had time, yes, that’s correct.
17 Q. All of those years, this attorney was
18 representing you in your domestic problems with your
19 ex-husband David, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. I think it goes without saying that
22 this lawyer was representing you during the time
23 period you claim you were being harassed and falsely
24 imprisoned by Mr. Jackson’s associates, correct?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And I think you’ve already said, you never
27 told this lawyer at any time that anyone in your
28 family was being held against their will, correct? 6549
1 A. Are you — is that attorney-client
2 privilege? Because he’s still my attorney.
3 Q. If you’re asserting the privilege, I will
4 not ask any further into that.
5 A. Yes, please.
6 Q. Okay. Is Attorney Michael Manning still
7 representing you?
8 A. No, he’s not.
9 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated to the jury that
10 this attorney was representing you for free; is that
12 A. Yes, this is correct.
13 Q. Didn’t your attorney at one point file
14 documents with the court asking that your ex-husband
15 pay your fees?
16 A. Yes, this is correct.
Next, Mesereau questioned Janet about a complaint she filed with police against her ex-husband October 4th, 2001. She brought photos of herself and her children with celebrities in order to prove to the detective that she really had contact with them. Just listen to her ridiculous answer when asked if she had ever gone to the Hollenbeck police station!
17 Q. Now, in the — just to set the record
18 straight on dates, it appears that your divorce
19 action was filed October 15th, 2001. Does that make
20 sense to you?
21 A. The best I can remember is after David was
22 arrested and the first day he presented himself at
23 the criminal courts is when Michael Manning handed
24 him already the documents for divorce.
25 Q. Okay.
26 A. That’s the best I can remember how it
28 Q. And do you recall approximately when he was 6550
1 first arrested?
2 A. I think he was arrested either the end of
3 September — I think my best estimate is the end of
4 September, but it could have possibly been the
5 beginning of October. But the best I can remember
6 is the end of September.
7 Q. Now, on October 4th, 2001, you went to the
8 Hollenbeck Division with Davellin, Star, and Gavin
9 to report problems with David, right?
10 A. The Hollenbeck Division is composed of two
11 different separate buildings. The Hollenbeck Police
12 Department is a separate building from the
13 Hollenbeck detective center. And if you walk there,
14 it’s quite a distance. But on car, it’s quite fast.
15 And there’s even, I think, a bridge, a freeway
16 bridge that separates both things, and they’re even
17 on separate side of the buildings. Separate side of
18 the street, I mean.
19 Q. And you know that police department quite
20 well, correct?
21 A. I’ve never gone to the police department.
22 I’ve only gone to the detective center.
23 Q. And on October 4th, 2001, you did go to the
24 Hollenbeck detective section, correct?
25 A. I don’t remember the date, but I do remember
26 the event.
27 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
28 show you a report to refresh your memory on the 6551
2 A. If you say the date’s on there, then that
3 should be correct. That should be accurate.
4 Q. I can’t testify. Can I just show it to you?
5 A. Well, if it’s on the paper, it’s correct.
6 Q. Okay. Would it refresh your recollection if
7 I just show it to you?
8 A. Okay. Come on over.
9 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
10 THE COURT: Yes. But, Counsel, she’s
11 conceded the date. So what are you doing?
12 MR. MESEREAU: If the Court permits, I’ll
13 just read the date into the record.
14 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I’ll stipulate to
15 the date as being the date of the event.
16 THE COURT: Without stipulation, she’s
17 conceded whatever date is on there is accurate. So
18 let’s move along.
19 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
20 Q. The date on the report is October 4th, 2001.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. And you recall going to the detective
23 division to speak about your problems with David,
25 A. Yes. The detective there had invited me, if
26 I wanted to come on over, to come on over, because
27 our phone had been — our interview had been by the
28 phone. 6552
1 Q. Now, you got to the detective division and
2 asked to talk to a detective, correct?
3 A. Yes. I think it was the same one that I had
4 been talking to.
5 Q. And you told the detective you wanted to
6 show the detective a videotape and numerous photos
7 of you and your children spending time with various
9 A. Yes, because he had a hard time believing
10 that a woman in East L.A. with her children knew
11 such — knew — knew them. And he’s a detective,
12 so, you know, he was curious.
13 Q. Did you bring the photos of celebrities with
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. And what photos of celebrities did you bring
17 to the detective division of the Hollenbeck
19 A. I think it was — I think it was mostly of
20 Chris. Chris and Aja.
21 Q. And according to the detective, you laughed
22 and appeared happy at the meeting, correct?
23 A. Yes, because finally me and my children are
24 getting some sense of freedom.
25 Q. It says you seemed happy as you showed him
26 information about various celebrities, correct?
27 A. Well, it was a video of Chris and the
28 children together. And Aja. 6553
During the weekend break, Janet met for 10 minutes with the prosecution to her testimony review and police documents, including one in which she told police that Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant, and weatherman Fritz Coleman would help her! She claimed she said this because David told her that he would tell everyone that she had slept with them, and she wanted them to verify that it wasn’t true.
1 Q. Now, before you testified has anyone showed
2 you any police reports to review?
3 A. Yes, they have shown them to me.
4 Q. And who’s “they”?
5 A. The D.A.’s Office.
6 Q. Okay. And when did they do that,
8 A. Approximately, probably — I think it was
9 days ago, yes.
10 Q. Okay. Did you meet over the weekend with
11 anyone from the prosecution?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. Who was that?
14 A. Mr. Zonen.
15 Q. And when did you meet Mr. Zonen?
16 A. Yesterday, with a detective present.
17 Q. And did you go over documents?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Did you talk about your testimony?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. How long was the meeting?
22 A. With me? Probably about — about ten
24 Q. Okay. And the whole meeting was ten
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Okay. And where did it take place?
28 A. At — in – 6554
1 Q. Don’t give your address if it’s your home.
2 Just say it’s, you know, at a residence.
3 A. No.
4 Are you okay?
5 BAILIFF CORTEZ: I apologize.
6 THE WITNESS: I don’t know what you —
7 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Was it at a residence?
8 A. No. No, it wasn’t.
9 Q. Was it at an office?
10 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object to the location,
11 Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: He’s just trying to get a general
13 statement. It’s overruled.
14 You may answer.
15 THE WITNESS: Where I’m staying.
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Okay. And they
17 came to see you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And the meeting was only ten minutes?
20 A. It was ten minutes.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. I think he must have been on his way back to
23 the office, I guess.
24 Q. Okay. In your — in one of your domestic
25 violence disputes with David, do you remember
26 signing a declaration that your children — your
27 boys sleep with baseball bats because they’re afraid
28 of David? 6555
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And was that true?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. And when did your boys begin sleeping
5 with baseball bats, if you know?
6 A. To the best that I can remember, it’s when
7 David and Mr. Halpern, his attorney, were making
8 the — parading on the circuitry of the T.V., you
9 know, making their rounds on T.V. And so it
10 resurfaced a lot of things that they had been
11 already feeling. But it intensified in 2003.
12 Q. So because of the T.V. appearances by David
13 and his lawyer, your sons began sleeping with
14 baseball bats; is that what you’re saying?
15 A. It began then. It began. It’s the best I
16 can remember.
17 Q. Now, did the — now, excuse me, did you say
18 a prosecutor showed you various police reports?
19 A. Not yesterday.
20 Q. Not yesterday?
21 A. No.
22 Q. But at some point?
23 A. Yes. Yes.
24 Q. Did the prosecutor show you another police
25 report where you reported David for domestic
26 violence and told the police that Michael Jackson,
27 Kobe Bryant and Fritz Coleman are going to help you?
28 A. That’s because David was calling me “whore,” 6556
1 and he said — David said that he was going to tell
2 everybody that I had sex with them. And so if they
3 wanted to do that, they can go verify with them that
4 I’m not having sex with any of those people.
5 Q. That wasn’t in your police interview, was
7 A. I did speak to the detective about it.
8 Q. So when you told the detective, “Michael
9 Jackson, Kobe Bryant and Fritz Coleman are going to
10 help me in my action against David,” that’s what you
11 were referring to?
12 A. Not action against David. That they can go
13 ask basically them themself that I’m not having sex
14 with them.
15 Q. Okay. But you’ve seen the report, and
16 nowhere in the report does it ever say that you told
17 the police officers that there are accusations that,
18 “I’m having sex with these celebrities,” correct?
19 A. Well, I don’t think that’s considered a
21 Q. So when the police officer just mentions
22 that quote, in your mind you should have also said,
23 “I told him the reason for the quote was that there
24 were false accusations about me having sex with
25 these celebrities,” correct?
26 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object. That question is
28 THE COURT: Sustained. 6557
1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Had you ever told Michael
2 Jackson anything about your domestic problems with
4 A. No.
5 Q. Had you ever told Kobe Bryant anything about
6 your domestic problems with David?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Had you told Fritz Coleman anything about
9 your domestic problems with David?
10 A. No.
11 Q. And again, in looking at the report, you
12 know that there’s nothing in that report about these
13 false accusations of sex, you know that, correct?
14 MR. ZONEN: Objection; asked and answered.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know that?
17 A. I don’t think it was considered a crime.
18 Q. Would it refresh your recollection just to
19 see the report?
20 A. I don’t need to see the report. I’m telling
21 you that’s what happened and that’s it.
Janet was asked about a photograph of her holding a knife in a threatening manner, and she stated that she and David were just playing around when she posed for that photo. According to Janet, that photo was sold to the tabloids by David and his attorney:
22 Q. Okay. Now, you had a hearing — excuse me,
23 let me rephrase that better.
24 Based on reports you made to the police,
25 David Arvizo was charged with domestic violence a
26 couple of times, right?
27 A. I don’t know what you’re talking about.
28 What – 6558
1 Q. I’ll be happy to rephrase.
2 Based on accusations you made about David
3 Arvizo being abusive and violent, he was prosecuted,
5 A. I don’t under —
6 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object as speculative.
7 THE COURT: Sustained.
8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you recall David Arvizo
9 being prosecuted for crimes related to domestic
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And as far as you know, why was he
14 A. Because he did the crime.
15 Q. And was he reported for those crimes, to
16 your knowledge?
17 A. He was investigated.
18 Q. And do you know how the investigations
20 A. Yes, because the best I can remember is I
21 was outside getting beat up and some children called
22 the police.
23 Q. Now, do you recall, in — excuse me. At
24 some point you spoke to a city attorney, correct,
25 from the Los Angeles County City Attorney’s Office,
27 A. Okay. Which case are we talking about?
28 Q. One of your domestic — one of the domestic 6559
1 violence cases that were filed against your
2 ex-husband David. Do you recall talking to someone
3 named Soriano?
4 A. Okay, yes.
5 Q. Okay. And do you recall talking to Mr.
6 Soriano about a photograph that had you holding a
7 knife? Do you remember that?
8 A. I didn’t talk to him about it. He asked me,
9 because David and Mr. Halpern, the ones that they’ve
10 sold to the tabloids, presented it to me.
11 Q. And you didn’t deny there was a photo of you
12 with a knife like this, right?
13 A. Of course there was.
14 Q. And you had an explanation for that
15 photograph, right?
16 A. Of course.
17 Q. And please tell the jury what that
18 explanation is.
19 A. In the tabloids they have blurted out —
20 well, they phased out the running — I think it was
21 running water, dishes — full of dishes in the sink,
22 my son sitting in the background doing his homework.
23 I was washing the dishes at the time. And David had
24 asked me, he goes, “Hey, Janet’s like the movie.”
25 This is the best I can remember. And he said,
26 “Here,” and it was all done in jokingly, and he
27 snapped a picture. Well, we’re talking about one of
28 those throw-away camera pictures. And my son is 6560
1 clearly in the background doing his homework,
2 holding up his paperwork. It’s the best I can
4 Q. And you would agree you’re photographed with
5 a knife like this?
6 A. Yes, I am.
7 Q. And it all is play acting, right?
8 A. No, it was done jokingly.
9 Q. Okay. Some other photographs surface of you
10 with something else you were holding, correct?
11 A. That was a broom. You know, when you sweep
12 like this from left to right, depending, yes. And
13 they also — Mr. Halpern and David also sold that to
14 the tabloids.
15 Q. And that was meant in jest also, correct,
16 the photo of you with a broom?
17 A. Those pictures were taken in, hmm, I
18 think — I think in 1999. The best I can remember.
19 1999. No, goodness, I think 1998, actually. Seven
20 years ago. That is the best I can remember.
21 Q. Now, around October 16th of 2001, you filed
22 documents with the Superior Court through your
23 attorney, Michael Manning, in which you claimed
24 David had threatened to kill you and the kids,
26 A. I don’t think it’s the word — the way
27 you’re saying it is word for word. But David, many,
28 many years, had already threatened me. Always. 6561
1 Q. And didn’t you say in documents filed with
2 the court David said he would kill you and the kids?
3 A. I think what is — I don’t think he’s saying
4 it word for word. But David had always threatened
5 me and the kids, always.
6 Q. Did he threaten you with death?
7 A. He always would.
8 Q. And you indicated that David said that if
9 you cause him trouble, he would have one of Ray’s,
10 his brother, people kill you and the kids, right?
11 A. Yes. David had said that for years, many,
12 many years to me.
13 Q. Who is Ray?
14 A. Ray is David’s brother, who is a convicted
15 drug dealer.
16 Q. And did Ray himself ever threaten you and
17 the children?
18 A. Ray never, never threatened me. It was all
19 per David’s own word.
20 Q. At some point did you mention in one of your
21 interviews that you had been abused in your own home
22 growing up?
23 A. Never.
24 Q. Okay. Did you ever mention anything about
25 your father being abusive?
26 A. Absolutely never.
27 Q. And you didn’t tell that to anyone, correct?
28 A. Never. 6562
1 Q. Okay. Did all the abuse in your home come
2 from David himself?
3 A. Always.
In this excerpt, Janet claimed that she didn’t know that Bradley Miller was an investigator for Mark Geragos, and that he didn’t identify himself as one, despite the fact that he recorded himself saying it before the interview started!
4 Q. Okay. Do you recall the meeting with Brad
5 Miller at Jay Jackson’s residence?
6 A. I think so.
7 Q. And do you recall Mr. Miller mentioning to
8 you and Jay Jackson and your family that he worked
9 for Attorney Mark Geragos, who represented Michael
11 A. No, I didn’t recall that. And it wasn’t
12 important to me because when he had walked in at the
13 door, he said he was Michael’s private investigator.
14 And also Frank had told me that Brad Miller was
15 Michael’s private investigator. So all that
16 mumbo-jumbo he was saying, it wasn’t brought to my
17 attention until we had a — here, I was here in this
18 courtroom, and I think it was September. So he’s
19 doing the same thing he did in September.
20 Q. When —
21 Move to strike, Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: I’ll strike after, “No, I didn’t
23 recall that.”
24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: When you learned that Brad
25 Miller was an investigator, did it ever occur to you
26 that you were being investigated?
27 A. No. Because Frank had told me that he was
28 Michael’s private investigator and he was here to 6563
1 help me and the kids. And I believed him. I
2 believed too much of them.
3 Q. He said he was an investigator for Mark
4 Geragos in front of Major Jay Jackson, did he not?
5 A. Jay repeatedly kept coming in and out of his
7 Q. Did Brad Miller, as far as you remember,
8 ever tell Major Jay Jackson in Major Jay Jackson’s
9 home that he was an investigator for Mark Geragos,
10 who represented Michael Jackson?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Do you recall ever discussing with Jay
13 Jackson the fact that Brad Miller was a private
15 A. No. It’s just that’s how he introduced
17 Q. Did you ever discuss with Jay Jackson either
18 before or after that interview who Brad Miller was?
19 A. There was no — I don’t know what he’s
20 trying — it’s so broad, but, the answer to that
21 question is no, as I’m understanding it.
22 Q. After the interview was completed, did you
23 ever discuss with Jay Jackson who Brad Miller was?
24 A. No.
25 Q. And did Jay Jackson ever ask you, “Janet, he
26 said he’s an investigator. Who is he?”
27 A. No.
28 Q. Did you ever learn that Asaf worked for 6564
1 Attorney Mark Geragos?
2 A. On the tape — on the tape-recorder that
3 Asaf illegally was taping the Child Protective
4 Services, he also says my son — I think my son
5 there, Star, asks him, and he points out that he’s
6 Michael’s security, or Star asks him, “Are you
7 Michael’s security?” And he clearly says by his own
8 mouth, “Yes.”
9 Q. Did you ever learn that Johnny was a private
10 investigator working with Miller?
11 A. Johnny told me he was Michael’s security.
12 Q. So it never occurred to you at any time that
13 Attorney Mark Geragos had anyone investigating who
14 you were and who your family was?
15 A. Well, first of all, why would he have a
16 criminal defense attorney —
17 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
18 THE WITNESS: — if there’s no criminal
19 investigation under its way?
20 THE COURT: You may answer that “yes” or
21 “no.” Did it occur to you?
22 THE WITNESS: Can you —
23 MR. MESEREAU: If we could have it read
25 THE WITNESS: Could you ask it differently?
26 Because I answered you what I thought was the answer
27 that you were looking for.
28 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did it ever occur to you 6565
1 that Attorney Mark Geragos had hired investigators
2 to investigate who you and your family were and what
3 your plans were?
4 A. Criminal defense attorney, no. Now I know
5 he’s a criminal defense attorney. No.
6 Q. And you never discussed with Major Jackson
7 who these people are and what they’re doing,
9 A. No. I believed everything Frank had told
10 me. I believed everything Michael had told me. I
11 believed them. I trusted them, that’s why we’re
12 here today.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: I’ll strike everything after
Mesereau asked for permission to play the audiotape of the Bradley Miller interview AGAIN, and Judge Melville annoyingly asked if Mesereau could ask questions pertaining to the main points of the tape, instead of having the court listen to the entire 34 minute audiotape AGAIN. (This is one of the few rulings that I agreed with!)
So Mesereau began with Janet’s previous assertion that she didn’t know that Bradley Miller was Geragos’ investigator, despite the fact that on the tape she twice acknowledged him after he gave a description of his background. Also, pay attention to the fact that Janet admitted that everything nice that she said about Jackson in the Miller interview was true, yet everything from the rebuttal video was scripted!
16 MR. MESEREAU: At this time, Your Honor,
17 with the Court’s permission, we’d like to play the
18 audiotape of the Brad Miller interview,
19 Exhibit 5000.
20 THE COURT: Would you remind us how long that
21 tape is?
22 MR. SANGER: It’s 34 minutes and 24 seconds.
23 THE COURT: Are you going to interrupt the
24 tape with questions or just play it again?
25 MR. MESEREAU: I was going to interrupt with
26 a couple of questions. Not too many.
27 THE COURT: Can’t you just go to the points
28 in the tape that — instead of having us sit here 6566
1 again, listen to that whole tape?
2 MR. MESEREAU: I can do that, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: All right. Do it.
4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, do you
5 recall — the interview begins with Mr. Miller
6 saying the following: “All right. This is a
7 tape-recorded statement conducted with the Arvizo
8 family, conducted by Brad Miller. Today is Sunday,
9 February 16th, 2003. It’s now 9:47 p.m. on that
10 evening. And as I told you, my name is Brad Miller.
11 I’m a licensed private investigator working on
12 behalf of the Law Firm of Geragos & Geragos,
13 specifically for an attorney by the name of Mark
14 Geragos, who is an attorney for Michael Jackson.
15 And this conversation is being tape-recorded with
16 your permission, correct, Janet?”
17 And your answer is, “Yes.”
18 Do you recall Mr. Miller telling you he
19 worked for Mark Geragos?
20 A. In September it was brought to my attention,
21 this mumbo-jumbo. Up to that point I had only
22 believed he was Michael’s private investigator.
23 Q. Do you recall towards the end of that
24 recorded interview, Mr. Miller asks you the
25 following: “All right. Well, I thank you guys. I
26 think this has been very helpful. So let’s wrap
27 this up. It’s now about 10:25, Sunday night,
28 February 16th, 2003. As I’ve told you, my name is 6567
1 Brad Miller. I’m a private investigator working on
2 behalf of Mark Geragos, who’s an attorney for
3 Michael Jackson. And this conversation has been
4 tape-recorded with your permission, correct, Janet?”
5 Answer, by you, “Yes.”
6 Do you recall that?
7 A. I didn’t pay attention to that.
8 THE COURT: Counsel, do we have a transcript
9 yet for that?
10 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, we do, Your Honor. I
11 don’t think we’ve lodged it with the Court, but we
12 do have one.
13 THE COURT: Would you lodge it with the
14 Court, please?
15 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll see if I can —
16 THE COURT: Later today is fine.
17 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Yes, we will.
18 Q. Where was Jay — excuse me, where was Major
19 Jay Jackson during that interview?
20 A. My husband — in the beginning, we were
21 just — it was a new relationship. And at that
22 point I think he must have been in his bedroom,
23 because you saw him kind of detached, what was going
25 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor.
26 THE COURT: Stricken.
27 You just need to answer the question.
28 Listen to it carefully, and then just answer the 6568
1 question. Don’t volunteer additional information.
2 Would you — do you want to restate it or do
3 you want the court reporter to read it back?
4 MR. MESEREAU: If the court reporter would
5 read it back, I’d appreciate it. Thank you.
6 (Record read.)
7 THE WITNESS: The majority of the time, in
8 his bedroom.
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you recall Major Jay
10 Jackson sitting during the majority of that
11 interview on the couch?
12 A. The majority of that interview he was in his
14 Q. Now, is it your — let me rephrase that.
15 Are you claiming that what you said in this
16 interview on February 16th, 2003, was scripted?
17 A. I already told him before. Everything that
18 was on the Bradley Miller audiotape was from my
19 heart, from the initial lovey-dovey meeting that I
20 had in Miami. I believed him and I trusted him.
21 So, it’s — the best I can say, it’s most — it’s
22 all accurate.
23 Q. You were asked by Mr. Miller, “What was Mr.
24 Jackson’s role in his recovery?” referring to Gavin
25 and his cancer. Do you remember that?
26 A. Uh-huh.
27 Q. And you said, “Like a father, like a father
28 to him.” Do you remember that? 6569
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Brad Miller said to you, “What would Michael
4 And your answer was, “Everything a loving
5 father, unselfish, kind,” then inaudible, “exhibits
6 unconditional love,” correct?
7 A. All of the Bradley Miller audiotape, it’s
8 all correct and accurate. That’s how I felt.
9 Q. Now, your son Gavin also spoke in that
10 interview, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And as far as you know, he was telling the
13 truth, right?
14 A. There’s — there was a few times that I had
15 stepped out, because I was feeling a little bit
16 concerned as to why and — how Jay was feeling,
17 because it was a new relationship with me that I was
18 beginning with Jay, so I was getting a little
19 concerned as to why Jay kept coming in and out. So
20 there’s periods in there that I’m not present when
21 there’s being audiotape.
22 Q. Gavin said that Michael would always put a
23 smile on his face. Do you remember that?
24 A. I have since read the — the transcript of
25 the audiotape. And like I said, everything there is
26 accurate. Everything there is correct. That’s how
27 they were feeling at that moment and at that time.
28 Q. And you were there when Gavin said Michael 6570
1 didn’t come to the hospital but he would call him on
2 the phone, correct?
3 A. Pardon me?
4 Q. You were present at the interview when Gavin
5 said Michael didn’t come to the hospital. He would
6 call on the phone, right?
7 A. Yes. He did — Michael never once came to
8 the hospital. But there was long hours of
9 conversations, hours and hours.
10 Q. And you said in that interview, “And that’s
11 one thing the role Michael was, he wasn’t just a
12 father figure to Gavin, he also was to Star and
13 Davellin, because he knew that all three of them
14 needed him and he was — um, is family to me. And
15 he also realized that I needed him.” Correct?
16 A. Yes. This is stemming from the initial
17 meeting that I had in Miami that he gave me a
18 reinterpretation of what his role was. This is from
19 Michael in Miami.
20 Q. So this is from your heart and it’s the
21 truth, correct?
22 A. Yes, it is. It is.
Next, Mesereau asked Janet about her descriptions of David’s abuse during her interview with Miller. For example, she described an incident in August 2000 where David was upset with her for dancing with Jackson, and Mesereau used this to pounce on her earlier statement of never having had a conversation with Jackson. Janet claimed that she danced with Jackson but didn’t converse with him, which is total baloney because she also ate dinner with him at his dinner table (this is when Gavin asked her if he could sleep in Jackson’s bedroom):
23 Q. You talked about David being charged with
24 child endangerment and terrorist threats, right?
25 A. If that’s on there, yes.
26 Q. Would it refresh your recollection? I can
27 show it to you.
28 A. Yes. 6571
1 Q. And Davellin said that David had broken her
2 tailbone, correct?
3 A. Yes, he had.
4 Q. And that was true, correct?
5 A. Yes. Yes. With his big old foot. Kicked
6 her right —
7 Q. Gavin said that David hit him during his
8 cancer treatment?
9 A. Oh, yes.
10 Q. And that was also true, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And Star said that David hit him where he
13 has a cyst, correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. You said that David would even abuse the
16 dog, right?
17 A. Yes. He hurt many of our little animals.
18 Q. You mentioned a ferret and a dog, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay.
21 A. Yeah.
22 Q. You talked about, “They had filmed — when
23 they had filmed the beautiful story about Michael
24 and my son, David was there present.” Do you
25 remember that?
26 A. Yes. Yes.
27 Q. What were you referring to when you talked
28 about “the beautiful story about Michael and my 6572
2 A. It was the DVD that’s titled “Michael and
3 Gavin.” I had never seen it prior to this time, but
4 Michael had informed me that it was a beautiful
5 story. So this is a — all stemming from the Miami
6 meeting, that 45-minute lovey-dovey meeting that I
7 had with Michael.
8 Q. So when you talked about the beautiful
9 story, you hadn’t seen it; is that true?
10 A. I had never seen it prior to Gary giving it
11 to Evvy — I mean Evvy giving it to Gary and Gary
12 giving it to us.
13 Q. You said that David was mad one day because
14 you and Michael were dancing, right?
15 A. Yes. And this was — this was David’s
16 character. You know, I couldn’t wear makeup.
17 Couldn’t shave my legs. You know, just different
19 So, yes, it was a — I was happy to see
20 Gavin dancing, because Gavin at that point had like
21 a toddler walk. And, to me, that made me happy.
22 And we were at a 20-foot distance and yet I still
23 got beat up for that.
24 Q. But you said that, “Me and Michael were
25 dancing,” correct?
26 A. Yes, me, Michael, the children. You don’t
27 take it out of context or make it dirty. He was —
28 me, Michael, the children, other guests there. It 6573
1 was inside this — what is it? — bumper cars area,
2 and they have the ability to play the music really
3 loud, so — and that’s what — that’s just what it
4 was all about.
5 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike the comments,
6 Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Denied.
8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Where were you and Michael
10 A. It was inside, just the children, me,
11 Michael and other guests there, under a tent in the
12 bumper car area.
13 Q. And when did this happen?
14 A. That happened in the initial meeting in
15 August of 2000. And I was happy to see that Gavin
16 was actually trying to dance. He wasn’t able to
17 dance. But because he had a toddler walk, to me,
18 that was a big step.
19 Q. Did you tell the jury last week you had
20 never had a conversation with Michael Jackson until
22 A. Yes, I never had a conversation with
23 Michael. Michael didn’t talk to me in the initial
24 visit with him.
25 Q. You danced with him, but you never talked to
27 A. That’s right. It wasn’t me and him solely
28 under the blue sky night. It was me, him, my 6574
1 children, other guests, under a tent in the bumper
2 car area, which they had the ability to play the
3 music really loud.
4 Q. The first time you visited Neverland, do you
5 recall having dinner in the main house at Neverland?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you recall Michael Jackson being there?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you recall a discussion about where Gavin
10 was going to sleep?
11 A. It wasn’t a discussion with me. It was a
12 discussion with David.
13 Q. And approximately when did that dinner take
15 A. Dinnertime.
16 Q. Approximate month and year?
17 A. Approximate, August 2000.
18 Q. And you never spoke to Michael Jackson at
19 that dinner table?
20 A. No. David was present.
21 Q. How long did the dinner last?
22 A. I guess maybe — maybe 20 minutes’ worth.
Judge Melville became annoyed again and told Mesereau that he could strike one of Janet’s answers, but what would be the point because all Mesereau is doing is having her confirm statements that she already admitted that she made, and that she meant at that time, so Mesereau moved on:
24 Q. Getting back to the Brad Miller recording,
25 you said the following: “In my observance and their
26 interaction, and Gavin with Michael and Star, with
27 Michael and Davellin, with Michael is that, as a
28 father figure, he provides for them. He provides 6575
1 them with a sense of humor. He’s very funny. And a
2 sense of direction and guidance.”
3 And you meant what you were saying, correct?
4 A. Yes, I did. This is my observance of what I
5 saw in Miami. But now I know different what was
6 happening and I was — and I was clueless.
7 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike the comments.
8 THE COURT: I’ll strike after “Yes, I did.”
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You said, “Michael’s
10 everything that an ultimate father is, and that’s
11 what the children have always prayed for, is a
12 father, and that God has blessed them with. And me,
13 I’ve always wanted family, so he’s family to me.”
14 You said that from your heart, correct?
15 A. Yes. He put on a good show in Miami.
16 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike the comment.
17 THE COURT: Strike the — after “Yes.”
18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And you said, “In being
19 what I endured in 17 years, I would be the most
20 sensitive to any little thing. And Michael has
21 never, absolutely never, made me feel in any way,
22 form, shape or matter that anything was anything
23 different other than Gavin as a son to Michael, Star
24 as a son to Michael, Davellin as a daughter to
25 Michael, and Michael father, like a father to all
26 three of them.”
27 Do you remember saying that?
28 MR. ZONEN: What page are we on? 6576
1 MR. MESEREAU: 12.
2 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
3 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember saying
4 those words?
5 A. Yes, and now I realize how stupid I was.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
7 THE COURT: I’ll strike after, “Yes,” but
8 what’s the point? I mean, on the questions here,
9 you’re asking her whether she said things. We’ve
10 heard the tape, we know what she said. Do you have
11 specific areas you wanted to ask her about?
12 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Getting her to say again that she
14 said those things doesn’t seem to be getting us
15 somewhere here, to me.
16 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll tie it up, Your Honor.
In this excerpt, Janet explained once again that her statements to Miller were true, and she spent the next four days rehearsing for the rebuttal video with “the Germans”. Seriously.
Mesereau then moved on to her relationship with Jamie Masada, and the celebrities that he introduced her to.
17 Q. Ms. Arvizo, do you remember telling the jury
18 that you were rehearsing with the people you refer
19 to as the Germans for the February 20th interview?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. This interview with Brad Miller is February
22 16th, 2003, correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. You’ve told the jury it wasn’t rehearsed,
26 A. That’s correct.
27 Q. Are you saying in the next four days you
28 rehearsed for the February 20th video? 6577
1 A. Prior to Jesus, it was many times daily in
2 Neverland with Dieter. First it was Ronald, Dieter,
3 and then it became Dieter hands on. And as you can
4 see, maybe you’ve — it’s been played approximately
5 five or six times here, and I’m sure there’s many
6 people that can recite it now. Imagine me working
7 daily, Dieter hands on, with me and my kids, many
8 times in one day, how that’s possible.
9 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
10 THE COURT: I’ll ask you just to answer the
11 question again. The question was, “Are you saying
12 in the next four days you rehearsed for the February
13 20th video?” And what’s your answer to that
15 THE WITNESS: It had already done — been
16 done prior with Dieter on a daily basis.
17 THE COURT: All right. I’ll strike her other
18 answer. Next question.
19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You’re saying you’d
20 rehearsed with Dieter before, but what you said on
21 this interview with Brad Miller was from the heart,
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. When did you first meet Jamie
26 A. The best I can remember, I think it was —
27 it was definitely before Gavin became ill.
28 Q. And how did you meet him? 6578
1 A. Through — the best I can remember, it
2 was — I had seen a flyer at a public school that
3 was, you know, talking about a comedy camp.
4 Q. Did you bring your children to Jamie
5 Masada’s comedy camp?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. Okay. And did your children attend the
8 comedy camp?
9 A. Yes. Yes, they did.
10 Q. Did you attend with them?
11 A. Yes. Every single time. I did.
12 Q. Now, do you recall any of your children
13 getting on stage and performing about how poor your
14 family was?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. And do you recall telling Jamie Masada that
17 your children dove into a fountain for coins?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you recall telling George Lopez your
20 children dove into a fountain for coins?
21 A. No. It may have been David maybe. If
22 they’re saying that, it may have been David.
23 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
24 THE COURT: Stricken after “No.”
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Jamie Masada introduced
26 you to various celebrities, right?
27 A. Not just me, the whole group, the whole —
28 everybody. Everybody that was attending. 6579
1 Q. And did you meet various celebrities through
2 Jamie Masada?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And who did you meet?
5 A. There were guest comics. And me personally,
6 I didn’t get to meet them. The only people I did
7 get to meet was — personally was George Lopez.
8 This is the best I can remember. Louise Palanker.
9 Fritz Coleman. Sully McCullough. That’s the best I
10 can remember. Those are the people that I
11 personally met. And of course Chris Tucker and his
12 fiancee, girlfriend, I don’t know how they are now,
13 but that’s the best I can remember. Me personally.
14 Q. And approximately what month and year was
16 A. The best I can remember, it was all prior to
17 Gavin becoming ill. The only one that we met after
18 Gavin was ill was Chris Tucker. And with Aja. This
19 is the best I can remember. But all the other ones
20 that have already came up here, it was prior to
21 Gavin becoming ill.
Next, the J.C. Penney suit was the subject of cross-examination again, and Janet once again gave herself an honest assessment by admitting that she said she was depressed during her deposition because she was a “nobody”, and that she is STILL a “nobody”!
Janet also confirmed that she filed for disability because of her depression, which was caused from the fact that her husband didn’t lover her or her kids anymore. Whatever. Mesereau pointed out that she deliberately didn’t tell her lawyers during her deposition that David caused her depression because she was worried that it would affect her settlement.
22 Q. In your deposition in the J.C. Penney case,
23 and I’m referring to December 18th, 2000, you
24 indicated that you had filed a state disability
25 claim because you were depressed. Remember that?
26 A. Um, yes.
27 Q. You were asked what caused the depression.
28 You said it was not your marriage, “I was just sad 6580
1 about being a nobody.” Do you remember that?
2 A. I’m still a nobody.
3 Q. Would you just answer the question. Isn’t
4 that what you said?
5 A. If it’s on there, that’s correct.
6 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
7 show you that?
8 A. There was many things why I was sad. Most
9 of all, the man that I was married that didn’t love
10 me or my kids.
11 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
12 THE COURT: Strike that answer. I’m not
13 quite sure what the question is at this point,
15 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase; I can restate
16 it, Your Honor.
17 Q. You testified under oath, Ms. Arvizo, that
18 you filed a state disability claim because you were
19 depressed, and when asked why you were depressed,
20 you said, “I was sad about being a nobody,” right?
21 MR. ZONEN: Objection; compound.
22 THE COURT: Sustained.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember being
24 questioned about why you had filed a state
25 disability claim?
26 A. No, I don’t. But what he’s talking about —
27 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object as nonresponsive.
28 THE COURT: Sustained. 6581
1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember filing a
2 state disability claim?
3 A. Not at that time. It was years and years
4 and years prior to what he’s saying now.
5 Q. Do you remember why you filed that state
6 disability claim?
7 A. Depression.
8 Q. And the depression was because you felt you
9 were a nobody, right?
10 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object as irrelevant;
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 You may answer.
14 THE WITNESS: I’m still a nobody. But now
15 I’m with somebody that’s just a regular person.
16 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor.
17 I’d just request the witness be asked to respond to
18 the question.
19 THE COURT: I’ll strike the answer. Are you
20 asking her if that’s the reason she gave on the
22 MR. MESEREAU: In the deposition, Your
24 THE COURT: I think you need to make that
25 clear. It’s not clear.
26 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. I will do that.
27 Q. Ms. Arvizo, in your deposition in the J.C.
28 Penney case on Monday, December 18th, 2000, you had 6582
1 admitted you had filed a state disability claim,
3 A. Yes. Years prior.
4 Q. You said you filed a claim for depression,
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You were asked if your marriage had caused
8 depression. Do you remember that?
9 A. No, I don’t remember that.
10 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
11 show you those pages?
12 A. No. But if it’s on there, it’s correct.
13 Q. You were asked was it your marriage, and
14 your answer was, “No, I was just sad about being a
15 nobody,” correct?
16 A. And I’m still a nobody.
17 Q. In your effort to obtain money in that
18 lawsuit, you didn’t want anyone to think you had had
19 any depression from — caused by David, correct?
20 A. That’s incorrect.
In this excerpt, Janet was asked if she told Azja that she was excited to go to Brazil, and if she had asked her if she wanted to tag along! (Although she denied this to Mesereau, it’s clearly obvious that she told Azja these things, which is why Mesereau asked her about it.)
21 Q. When did you last see Brad Miller?
22 A. When did I last see Brad Miller?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. When he was standing right next to — next
25 to the camera, in the rebuttal video. Right there.
26 Here’s the camera. Here’s Brad Miller. Right
27 there. I think. That’s my best remember — my best
28 recollection. 6583
1 Q. The interview with the DCFS was the morning
2 after the rebuttal video.
3 A. Oh, that’s right. He did come afterwards
4 and — that’s — go ahead.
5 Q. Was Brad Miller at the meeting with the
6 representatives of the Department of Children &
7 Family Services?
8 A. No, he wasn’t present there when they were
10 Q. So was the last time you saw him, that you
11 can recall, where you did the rebuttal video? Was
12 that the last place you saw him?
13 A. He did come afterwards, after the ladies had
14 left. The ladies were no longer in my apartment.
15 He did come afterwards.
16 Q. Was it your idea to have the DCFS interview
17 at Major Jackson’s home?
18 A. I think so.
19 Q. Why?
20 A. I don’t remember.
21 Q. Were you living at Major Jackson’s home —
22 A. No.
23 Q. — when you had that interview?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did you represent to the social workers from
26 the DCFS that that was your home?
27 A. No, I told them this was my boyfriend’s
28 home. 6584
1 Q. Did you tell him that your children ever
2 stayed there?
3 A. I did tell them that we visited there.
4 Q. Was your intent to make them think that’s
5 where your children lived?
6 A. Absolutely not. They know where I lived. I
7 lived in East L.A. on Soto Street. They knew that.
8 Q. Now, I believe you told the jury that at
9 that interview was someone named Aja Pryor, correct?
10 A. Aja Pryor, yes.
11 Q. And Aja Pryor at the time, as far as you
12 knew, was actor and comedian Chris Tucker’s fiancee,
14 A. At that time that’s what I felt. They do
15 have a baby together.
16 Q. And her baby was there for the interview,
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And after the interview was over, you drove
20 somewhere with Aja Pryor, didn’t you?
21 A. Incorrect.
22 Q. Did you ever drive with Aja Pryor anywhere
23 after the interview?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did Aja Pryor ever drive you to Neverland at
26 any time?
27 A. No.
28 Q. How often did you used to talk to Aja Pryor 6585
1 during this time period?
2 A. Often.
3 Q. Would you call her?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Would she call you?
6 A. We’re talking about a friendship that had
7 gone on for years. So can you specify the time
9 Q. Sure. Let’s say between January of 2003 and
10 April of 2003.
11 A. Okay. Prior to Neverland, it was back and
12 forth phone calls. During Neverland, it was —
13 there was no return phone call that she can call me
14 back on.
15 Q. Do you recall Miss Pryor ever driving your
16 children to Neverland?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. When was that?
19 A. That was right after the CPS interview, when
20 Asaf had escorted Aja and the children to the car.
21 And they were being followed.
22 Q. Did you ask —
23 Move to strike the comments.
24 THE COURT: Denied.
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you ask Miss Pryor to
26 drive your children to Neverland after the DCFS
28 A. No. 6586
1 Q. Do you know why she did that?
2 A. That was already prearranged.
3 Q. How was it prearranged?
4 A. Well, it was already in a conversation
5 prior, per Frank’s instructions.
6 Q. Did you ever ask Aja Pryor for the keys to
7 Chris Tucker’s car?
8 A. No.
9 Q. To your knowledge, did Davellin ever do
11 A. No.
12 Q. Do you recall ever being in a call with
13 Davellin where you and Davellin asked Aja Pryor to
14 the keys to Chris Tucker’s automobile?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Do you recall discussing going to Brazil
17 with Aja Pryor?
18 A. Like I had told you, remember those
19 conversations that I would have and try to slip
20 something in? So at the end of the — all these
21 people could put this puzzle together as to where me
22 and my children were finally at.
23 Q. Do you recall telling Aja Pryor that you
24 were excited to go to Brazil?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Do you recall inviting Aja Pryor to go to
27 Carnaval in Brazil with you?
28 A. No. 6587
1 Q. When’s the last time you saw Aja Pryor?
2 A. I think it was the CPS meeting. I think
3 that was the last day.
Now, let’s get to the good stuff! Mesereau finally gets to Janet’s police interviews, and boy were they interesting, to say the least! Janet attended vocational school in the summer and fall of 2003 (so she claimed) and studied to be an orthopedic technologist; too bad this stupid trial diverted her dreams!
Janet also confirmed that she was an acquaintance of Carol Lamere, a grandmother of one of the students in Davellin’s tap dance studio, and that Davellin spent many nights at her house in 2000. This testimony corroborates Lamir’s interview with Mesereau’s investigator in which she stated that Davellin confessed that Janet planned to blackmail Jackson into buying her a house by threatening to accuse him of showing her sons online pornography; this interview can be read on pages 26-33 of this document.
4 Q. I’d like to ask you some questions about
5 some of the interviews you gave the sheriffs in
6 Santa Barbara, okay?
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. I’m just going to go through those
10 You indicated in one interview that you were
11 studying to be an orthopedic technologist, correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And was that true?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And where were you doing that course of
17 A. I was doing that at a vocational school in
18 Orange County.
19 Q. And what years did you attend there?
20 A. I attended approximately in 2003.
21 Q. Did you finish that course?
22 A. No.
23 Q. How long did you go to school there?
24 A. Probably summer and attempted to try to
25 finish fall.
26 Q. You mentioned to the sheriffs that you knew
27 Carol Lamir, correct?
28 A. Yes. That’s David’s girlfriend. 6588
1 Q. Well, before you thought she was David’s
2 girlfriend, you knew her in another capacity,
4 A. Yes, David and I both knew her.
5 Q. And how did you know her?
6 A. Through — she doesn’t like to call herself
7 grandmother, but she actually is the grandmother
8 to — to one of the children that was taking tap
9 dance lessons where my children were.
10 Q. And you met her at that school, correct?
11 A. This is correct.
12 Q. Okay. Did you stay in touch with her for
13 any length of time after you met her at that school?
14 A. David did.
15 Q. Did Davellin ever stay at her house, to your
17 A. Davellin stood, I think, when Gavin had
18 gotten ill, I think for less than one month. And I
19 came to find out that all she wanted Davellin was to
20 clean her house. And so I put a stop to that.
21 Q. To your knowledge, how many evenings did
22 Davellin stay at Carol Lamir’s house?
23 A. I can’t remember. But the best one who
24 could remember that would probably be Davellin.
25 We’re talking five years ago.
26 Q. Do you know if she spent weeks there?
27 A. I don’t think so.
28 Q. Did you often know if she was going to stay 6589
2 A. Of course.
3 Q. Would she ask your permission to stay there?
4 A. No, she didn’t want to go to her house
5 anymore. And I came to find out is because all
6 Carol wanted her was to clean her house.
7 Q. But you don’t know approximately how many
8 nights Davellin stayed at Carol Lamir’s home, right?
9 A. No. Please. My son had cancer, I….
10 Q. Do you know approximately what year Davellin
11 was staying at Carol Lamir’s home?
12 A. Yes, this was when Gavin had cancer, in
Janet’s lies know no end! She claimed that during her stay at the Calabasas Hotel, she told Azja that she was being held against her will and asked her to call the police for her (so that the call wouldn’t be traced to her), and of course Azja will deny this later on in this trial when she testifies.
14 Q. Did you ever tell Aja Pryor that your family
15 was being held against their will?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. When was this?
18 A. I think — I think it was during the hotel
19 period. That’s the best I can remember. I — I
20 tried to reach different people.
21 Q. And you specifically remember telling her
22 that you were being held against your will?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you remember ever asking her to call the
26 A. No. That was another thing I slipped in,
27 and I was always hoping that these people would call
28 themself. This way the call didn’t come from me. 6590
1 Quick slip-in.
2 Q. Now, during the DCFS interview, Aja’s
3 present at Major Jackson’s home with three social
4 workers from Los Angeles, correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. You never say anything about your being held
7 against your will, correct?
8 A. That’s correct. Because Asaf had already
9 told me — he already had warned me prior to them —
10 the ladies coming in.
11 Q. You saw Major Jackson when you arrived that
12 morning, correct?
13 A. Yeah — I think so. But it was a new
14 relationship with Jay, and he was a — now he has
15 softened up, but back then was very completely
Next, Mesereau questioned Janet about her knowledge of where Gavin and Star slept during their first visit to Neverland in August 2000 (for the record, Star and Gavin slept in Jackson’s bedroom on the night before they left)
17 Q. The first time you visited Neverland, did
18 you tell the jury you didn’t know where your sons
19 were the first evening?
20 A. Which — are you talking the police report?
21 MR. ZONEN: I’ll object as vague.
22 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll rephrase it if it’s
24 THE COURT: All right.
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The first time you, your
26 husband and your son — excuse me, you, your husband
27 and your children visited Neverland, do you remember
28 when that was? 6591
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And approximately when was that?
3 A. In August of 2000.
4 Q. Do you remember where your son stayed that
5 first evening?
6 A. In Michael’s house.
7 Q. How did you know they were staying in
8 Michael’s house?
9 A. Because Gavin had asked.
10 Q. Did you hear Gavin ask?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Do you know approximately where he made that
14 A. No, I don’t remember.
15 Q. Did he make that request at the dinner
16 table, to your knowledge?
17 A. You know, I — I can’t remember that part.
18 Q. Did you —
19 A. We’re talking five years ago.
20 Q. Did you have any discussion with Michael
21 Jackson about where your sons were going to stay
22 that evening?
23 A. I didn’t — he didn’t talk to me. I didn’t
24 talk to him. It was David talking to Michael.
25 Q. So as far as you know, the first night you
26 were there, your sons were staying somewhere in the
27 main house, but you didn’t know where, right?
28 A. This is correct. 6592
1 Q. And you assumed that David knew where; is
2 that correct?
3 A. I assumed that children stay with children.
4 That’s what I assumed.
5 Q. Did you see your sons the next day?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you ask them where they had stayed that
9 A. No, I didn’t. They had told me that they
10 had played, and that was good.
11 Q. Did you then stay at Neverland a second
13 A. I think so. Yes. Yes, yes.
14 Q. And was it your belief that your sons stayed
15 in the main house that night?
16 A. Yes, they did.
17 Q. Did you see them the next morning?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you ask them where they had spent the
21 A. No. I didn’t — now I know a lot of things.
22 Now I know —
23 MR. ZONEN: Objection; nonresponsive.
24 THE COURT: Sustained.
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you stay at Neverland
26 a third night during that first visit?
27 A. I don’t remember how many days we stayed
28 there, but I know it was just days. And that’s it. 6593
1 You’re going to walk me through each room — I mean
2 each door, each day, and I don’t know.
3 Q. Do you think you stayed more than two nights
4 at Neverland during that first visit?
5 A. Definitely more than two, but definitely
6 less than — less than a week. It was just days.
7 But I can’t remember, it was five years ago.
8 Q. Did you ever at any time ask your sons
9 during that first trip to Neverland where they had
10 spent the night?
11 A. No. No, I didn’t. But I’ve learned things
12 now —
13 MR. ZONEN: Objection; nonresponsive.
14 THE COURT: Sustained.
15 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
16 THE COURT: Stricken.
Next, Janet denied that she complained to anyone that Jackson wouldn’t return the Ford Bronco to her after he said he would repair it, which shows her lack of gratitude!
17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In one of your initial
18 interviews with the sheriffs, you talked about
19 Michael Jackson giving a big gift for Gavin, which
20 was a car, correct?
21 A. Yes. It looked exactly like the O.J.
22 Simpson truck.
23 Q. Was it an SUV?
24 A. It was — it was an old car. It looked like
25 just the O.J. Simpson Bronco thing.
26 Q. It wasn’t a Bronco, was it?
27 A. Oh, no. No. That’s incorrect. Thank you.
28 You’re right. It was a laptop computer. The truck 6594
1 came afterwards.
2 Q. Okay. I’m focusing on just the truck.
4 A. Okay. Because you had mentioned the truck,
5 so —
6 Q. Well, you said it looked like Mr. Simpson’s
7 Bronco, but it was really a Chevy Blazer, wasn’t it?
8 A. No. I think it was a Ford Bronco.
9 Q. At some point, didn’t you refuse to return
10 the registration to that car?
11 A. I didn’t have no registration.
12 Q. Did you ever keep any of the papers
13 associated with that car?
14 A. No, a VIN number.
15 Q. Did you ever tell the sheriffs in any
16 interview, “I have the papers associated with that
18 A. I have papers that — I wrote down the VIN
20 Q. Anything else?
21 A. No, that’s it.
22 Q. You were upset that that Blazer was
23 returned, weren’t you?
24 A. No.
25 Q. You never were upset?
26 A. No.
27 Q. Did you ever think it was wrongfully kept by
28 Mr. Jackson? 6595
1 A. No. What I thought was wrong is that they
2 wanted Gavin to come back alone to pick it up,
3 that’s what I thought. That was the uneasy part.
4 Q. Did you ever complain to anyone that,
5 “Michael Jackson said he would repair the car and we
6 never saw it again”?
7 A. No, I didn’t complain. That was just
8 information that — the police wanted to know every
9 detail, so that was the best I can recall. And
10 we’re talking about in 2001. This is four years
12 Q. Now, at some point, you said that Mr.
13 Jackson gave your son a laptop computer, right?
14 A. Yes, he did.
15 Q. And do you know approximately when that was?
16 A. That was the first visit that we had gone to
17 in August of 2000.
18 Q. And did you actually see that computer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And was that returned at some point also?
21 A. Yes, it was.
22 Q. Do you remember telling the sheriffs that
23 you had kept the VIN number and registration?
24 A. Okay. Now I know the difference. It was
25 only VIN number. The paperwork of the VIN number.
26 That’s all.
27 Q. So when you said “registration,” it was a
28 mistake? 6596
1 A. Yes. It’s VIN number, that big long number.
2 Q. All right. And you also complained about
3 Michael’s people taking the computer back, correct?
4 A. No, I didn’t complain. I had just made them
5 aware, that’s all.
6 Q. And when you say you made them aware, who
7 were you talking about?
8 A. The police.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. Because they wanted every detail that I can
11 possibly remember, so it was just information.
12 Q. Okay. You never complained to any sheriff
13 that the computer had been returned when it really
14 belonged to Gavin?
15 A. No. It was information.
16 Q. Okay.
17 THE COURT: Counsel?
18 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, okay.
19 THE COURT: Take our morning break.
20 (Recess taken.)
After returning from recess, Mesereau proceeded to question Janet about the gifts that Gavin received from Jackson during his hospital stay, and the phone messages that Jackson left for Gavin on his answering machine. Janet told police that Jackson was trying to cure Gavin, and by doing that she shot herself in the foot because the prosecution asserted that all of Jackson’s communications with Gavin were part of the grooming process! Janet admitted that she said that due to her own “cluelessness”.
1 THE COURT: Counsel?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, thank you, Your Honor.
3 Q. Ms. Arvizo, you mentioned to the sheriffs in
4 one of your initial interviews that Michael had sent
5 gifts to Gavin, correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And what gifts do you recall Michael Jackson
8 sending to Gavin when Gavin was ill?
9 A. When Gavin was ill?
10 Q. Yes.
11 A. Go through the whole list?
12 Q. Sure. Whatever you can remember.
13 A. The best I can remember is the computer,
14 the — I think it was a Bronco – I just have a
15 picture of it – white, Christmas gifts, and that was
16 all, when he was sick.
17 Q. And what —
18 A. That’s the best I can remember.
19 Q. Do you remember anything being delivered at
20 the hospital for Gavin from Michael Jackson?
21 A. Yes, a big gift basket.
22 Q. Okay. Do you remember toys like Play
23 Station 3, things like that, being delivered to
24 Gavin for Michael?
25 A. Okay, I was incorrect in saying Play
26 Station 3. It was a Play Station 2, and that was
27 during Christmastime.
28 Q. Is that all the gifts you remember Gavin 6603
1 ever receiving from Michael Jackson?
2 A. This is the best I can remember, when Gavin
3 was sick.
4 Q. When Gavin wasn’t sick, do you remember
5 other gifts being given?
6 A. Yes. Michael would send things through —
7 through like a courier, messenger, something like
8 that, give baskets, and was saying, “I love you,
10 Q. Do you remember telling the sheriffs that
11 when Michael Jackson gave those gifts and those
12 messages, you assumed he was trying to cure him,
13 because Gavin was ill? Do you remember saying
15 A. No, I don’t think that’s exactly correct how
16 you’re saying it. But I feel when Gavin was sick,
17 there were just things that were get-you-well gifts,
18 I guess, I don’t know. The only thing that made me
19 uneasy was —
20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike.
21 THE COURT: Overruled. And you interrupted
22 her answer.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember telling
24 the sheriffs Michael Jackson would leave messages at
25 your home for Gavin?
26 A. Yes. He would leave — what kind of
27 messages? Phone messages?
28 Q. Yeah. He’ll say things like, “I’ll never 6604
1 forget you,” and things like that, right?
2 A. Okay. The best I can remember, Gavin had
3 his own private phone number, own answering machine,
4 because his room had to be sterile. And Michael
5 knew that it was his private — private phone line.
6 And that’s where Michael would leave the phone
8 Q. And you told the sheriffs when you were
9 discussing those messages, referring to Michael
10 Jackson, “He’s saying it out in the open. You know,
11 you know, he’s saying it probably because he’s ill,
12 trying to cure him.” Do remember that?
13 A. Yes. That again is my own cluelessness.
14 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
15 THE COURT: The part after “Yes”? After
16 “Yes,” is that —
17 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right. I’ll strike it.
Mesereau continues to ask about the various trips that Star and Gavin took to Neverland with their father, and the number of times Janet herself went with them (she never went back to Neverland after the first visit until 2003):
19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you learned at some
20 point that Star, your son Star, had done a video at
21 Neverland with Mr. Jackson, correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And when did you learn about that video?
24 A. I think in Miami. That’s when I learned
26 Q. And have you ever seen that video?
27 A. I’ve never seen that video.
28 Q. Okay. When Star was at Neverland making 6605
1 that video, did he ever discuss it with you?
2 A. No.
3 Q. You’ve described your first trip to
4 Neverland, okay? When was your second trip to
6 A. I think it was the — Aja and Chris’s baby
7 boy’s birthday party that Aja and Chris took
8 their — almost their entire whole family. He had
9 them flown in from Atlanta, Georgia.
10 Q. And approximately when was that trip?
11 A. That was approximately — I think it was
12 early September in 2002.
13 Q. After your first trip to Neverland, your
14 children went back with David on a couple of
15 occasions, did they not?
16 A. Not my children. My two boys. They went —
17 do you want me to say?
18 Q. Sure.
19 A. Okay. The initial visit, the best I can
20 remember – always, please, dates, best I can
21 remember – is August 2000. And then both my boys
22 returned with David to Neverland. Davellin did not
23 return. Davellin stood with me. So —
24 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Your Honor, we have
25 lodged with the Court a transcript of the Brad
26 Miller interview, and I believe it’s Exhibit 5008.
27 THE COURT: Thank you.
28 THE CLERK: Is it received into evidence? 6606
1 THE COURT: No.
2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: During — let me get this
3 straight now. You went the first time with David
4 and your children, and there were a couple of times
5 after that that David just took your sons, correct,
6 to Neverland?
7 A. It was one other time.
8 Q. Okay. Was there just one other trip with
9 David and the sons alone?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. All right. And when do you think that was?
12 A. That was right after, also.
13 Q. And how long a trip was that, if you
15 A. The best I remember, it was also — it was
16 also days.
17 Q. Do you know where your sons stayed, during
18 that trip, in the evening?
19 A. No, I don’t. The best — you can probably
20 ask the boys.
21 Q. Did you ever ask them yourself where they
22 had stayed during that next trip with David?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you ever ask David where they had stayed
25 during that trip?
26 A. No.
27 Q. Before 2003, how many times did you
28 personally visit Neverland? 6607
1 A. Before 2003?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. Before 2003, best I can remember was the
4 initial visit that I went. I think it was August
5 2000. And then with Chris and Aja’s baby boy’s
6 birthday party in early September 2002.
7 Q. Now, during Chris and Aja’s birthday party,
8 Mr. Jackson was not present, right?
9 A. Yes. Mr. Jackson was not present.
10 Q. And did you stay in the guest quarters?
11 A. Not at all. It was only a day visit. It
12 was a birthday party. That’s all it was.
13 Q. You came in that morning and left that
15 A. Yes.