April 13th, 2005 Trial Analysis: Jay Jackson (Cross Examination) and Janet Arvizo (Direct Examination), Part 5 of 5
Here is an example of how erratic Janet’s behavior was during her testimony: after giving a rambling, nonsensical answer to the simple question of why did she go to Jesus Salas for help, Zonen asked Janet if she remembered the question that she was asked, and she answered “No!”
After having the question repeated, she stated that she asked him to bring her home because she was afraid of Ronald and Dieter, and the more she was questioned, the more bizarre her answers became! She even admitted to having her legs waxed during this exchange, too. You have to read it for yourself to believe it!
7 Q. Why did you go to Jesus?
8 A. Because after asking them to leave so many
9 times and they wouldn’t let me leave. And then they
10 were all working on a positive PR for Michael. They
11 also wanted to point out how they were doing things
12 for the mother and the kids. It was — they were
13 going to use it — it went back and forth, and then
14 they were going to use it in lieu, like — also,
15 like, they don’t think that they were going to put
16 out there. They’re crazy.
17 So that was —
18 Q. You don’t remember the question, do you?
19 A. No.
20 Q. I don’t either.
21 A. I thought there was —
22 Q. Why did you go to Jesus?
23 A. To help me.
24 Q. Okay. And did you talk to him about helping
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. All right. And in what language did you
28 speak with him? 6096
1 A. I spoke to him both in English and Spanish.
2 Q. Why is that? Why did you speak in Spanish?
3 A. Well, because I was very concerned about
4 anybody hearing.
5 Q. What did you ask Jesus to do?
6 A. To help me leave, me and the kids.
7 Q. What did he tell you?
8 A. He says — because I had told him that they
9 weren’t letting me go. And he says that, “No one
10 should ever be held if they don’t want to stay
12 Q. And did you leave?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. All right. Now, during that period of time
15 that you were at Neverland before you left with
16 Jesus, did you go anyplace out of Neverland?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Where did you go?
19 A. Ronald and Dieter said, like I told you
20 about Michael’s positive PR, and they wanted to show
21 that he’s doing things for the mother and the kids.
22 And, you know, so — they had me so wrapped up. I
23 believed everything they said.
24 Q. Miss Arvizo?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Where did you go?
27 A. Okay. I went to, like, a beauty place.
28 And, oh, but get this. 6097
1 Q. Miss Arvizo?
2 A. I’m paying for it.
3 Q. Miss Arvizo?
4 A. That’s right.
5 Q. Where did you go?
6 A. Okay. I went and got my legs waxed.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. And the key thing there —
9 Q. Hold on, hold on.
10 A. — I’ll pay for it, because it was in
11 replacement of my things.
12 Q. All right. I want you only to answer the
13 question that’s asked of you.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. I want you to listen to the question that’s
16 asked. Would you do that?
17 A. Sure.
18 Q. Okay. You went to a beauty salon of some
19 nature; is that right?
20 A. Yes. Yes.
21 Q. Did you have a body wax?
22 A. No.
23 Q. All right. You had your legs waxed?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What else?
26 A. That’s it.
27 Q. All right. Whose idea was it to do that?
28 A. Ronald and Dieter. 6098
1 Q. How did they come up with a beauty parlor?
2 A. Because they wanted to show that they were
3 doing something for the mother. Positive PR.
4 Q. Okay. Now, you said you paid for it.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. In what way did you pay for it?
7 A. Because I — I told them, “The only way I’m
8 going to do that is if you deduct that from the
9 things that were lost or stolen.” Who knows?
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. In replacement of that.
12 Q. Was that agreed to?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right.
15 A. They said, “Okay.”
16 Q. Who is it who took you there, to a location?
17 A. Chris.
18 Q. It was Chris Carter who took you there?
19 A. Yes. And then their little surveilling
21 Q. There were other people that came with you?
22 A. Yes. Yes, their little surveilling filming
24 Q. Where were your children during that time?
25 A. With Michael.
26 Q. Did you —
27 A. The boys were with him, you know.
28 Q. Did you return back to Neverland? 6099
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Okay. Was that the day that you left?
3 A. I think it was, because I figured, you know
4 what? That’s it. That’s enough. They got their
5 positive PR, and now maybe I can go.
6 Q. You went to Jesus?
7 A. No. After, the Germans are following me
8 every single place.
9 Q. Then you went to Jesus?
10 A. I waited till they fell asleep, and then I
11 went to Jesus.
12 Q. Did Jesus agree to take you off the
14 A. Yes. Yes.
15 Q. Did he drive you and your children home?
16 A. Yes.
Here is Janet’s description of her time at home, after being dropped off by Jesus Salas to avoid “the killers”. Frank Cascio allegedly told her that it was too “scary” for her to stay at her mother’s house, so she and her kids went to Jay Jackson’s house. From there, Frank and Michael Jackson called her numerous times and convinced her to return to Neverland in order to avoid “death threats”. During this testimony, Janet looked directly at Jackson and told him that “I believed you”, after she was asked by Zonen if she believed Jackson’s claims that she and her children were in “danger”:
17 Q. Where did you go?
18 A. To my mom’s. They had me scared about going
19 to my mom — to my own place.
20 Q. What did they tell you about your place?
21 A. That the killers had been there, that it had
22 even been broken into. I believed everything they
23 said. Now — now I don’t.
24 Q. This is the Soto Street residence?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. All right. Did — did you ask Jesus to take
27 you to your parents’ place?
28 A. Yes. 6100
1 Q. And did he, in fact, take you there?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you tell either of the two Germans,
4 Dieter or Ronald, where your residence was?
5 A. The East L.A.? Yeah. Oh, they took care of
6 all of that in Miami. Found out every detail.
7 Q. They knew where the Soto Street residence
9 A. Yeah. And plus, you know, Michael knew
10 before that.
11 Q. Okay. He had picked up your children from
12 that residence?
13 A. Yeah, and I had lived there for almost
14 already five years.
15 Q. All right. Now, when you went to your
16 mother’s residence, you stayed there how long?
17 A. I can’t remember. But I remember Frank
18 convincing me that it’s too scary to stay there.
19 And I figured my parents are old, and so I went to
20 Jay’s house.
21 Q. With your children?
22 A. With my children.
23 Q. All right. Did —
24 A. But I still didn’t want to go back to
26 Q. So you went to Jay’s house?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And you stayed there for approximately how 6101
1 long; do you know?
2 A. I don’t know.
3 Q. Were you getting any telephone calls while
4 you were at either your mother’s house or at Jay’s
6 A. Yes, a lot.
7 Q. From whom?
8 A. From Frank. And then Michael had called
9 once and spoke to the boys, and to Gavin.
10 Q. Mr. Jackson?
11 A. Yeah. At this point, I think he’s still
12 a —
13 Q. Mr. Jackson phoned personally?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Was this at your mother’s house or was this
16 at your —
17 A. My mom’s house.
18 Q. Do you know how long after you returned from
19 Neverland it was that Mr. Jackson called your
20 mother’s house?
21 A. Almost immediately. And spoke to both boys.
22 And then to Gavin. But Frank, oooh, all of the
24 Q. You say “all of the time.” What does that
26 A. Oh, gosh, a lot.
27 Q. What was he saying?
28 A. That he loves us, Michael loves us, and, you 6102
1 know, loves — he wants to protect us. I’m in so
2 much danger, me and the children. Just — just
3 everything in those kind of topics.
4 Q. Did he describe the danger?
5 A. Yeah, he said that, “You don’t know, Janet.
6 We’re receiving constant death threats here about
7 the children.” You know, I believed him.
8 Q. And he was telling you this in your
10 A. Yes. Yes.
11 Q. All right.
12 A. But there was so many conversations.
13 Q. When Mr. Jackson actually phoned —
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. — did you talk with him at all?
16 A. No. No, Frank had already done the legwork
17 for him, let him know.
18 Q. The question was only whether or not you had
19 spoken with Mr. Jackson.
20 A. No.
21 Q. When you went to Jay Jackson’s home, this is
22 the one on St. Andrews Place?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. In mid-Wilshire in Los Angeles?
25 A. Yeah, he has a — had a one-bedroom
27 Q. Did the phone calls continue there?
28 A. Yes. 6103
1 Q. Were you calling Frank back? Was he leaving
2 messages? Were you returning his call?
3 A. The ones I returned, probably maybe — at
4 that time, before returning to Neverland? I think
5 maybe — maybe once. Once or three times. Very —
6 definitely less than five. The rest were all him.
7 Q. Did you believe there was a danger to —
8 A. And that’s maybe.
9 Q. Did you believe there was a danger to your
10 children at that time?
11 A. Yes, I believed them.
12 (To the defendant) I believed you.
13 Q. Did Frank, in any of his conversations with
14 you, tell you who it was who posed a danger to your
16 A. No. The killers, you know.
17 Now when somebody knocks, I say, “Okay, it’s
18 either a subpoena or a killer.”
19 Q. All right. Did he ever discuss any other
20 matters with you over the telephone?
21 A. Yeah. Yeah, how much that Michael loved the
22 kids and me. And then about doing this video. And
23 I had told them no, because Dieter and Ronald had
24 scripted it, and so they wanted us to say exactly
25 what they wanted us to say for — what they wanted
26 us to exactly say.
27 Q. During this period of time that you were
28 back in Los Angeles – all right? – after Jesus drove 6104
1 you away from Neverland, did the kids go back into
3 A. No.
4 Q. Why not?
5 A. Because I really believed them. I did.
6 Q. Believed that there was what?
7 A. Killers.
8 Q. Danger?
9 A. And then afterwards, I came to find out from
10 Mr. Davie that honestly no reporter ever came to my
11 children’s school.
Next, Zonen questioned Janet about the avalanche of offers that she and her family received from the media to grant interviews after the documentary aired. Janet thought that those offers were proof that “the killers” that Jackson and his entourage had told her about were really out to get her. One of the offers that she received was for $100,000 dollars to give a story about her ordeal with Jackson, and this is offer may be from the same people who offered Janet the book deal that her ex-husband David was referring to in his interview with Mesereau’s private investigator on page 25 of this document:
12 Q. Were you dealing with reporters at all
13 during this period of time after you came home?
14 A. When I came home, all I saw was my mom’s
15 tables filled with offers, filled with different
16 offers. Vacation, money, cars. You name it, it was
17 there. It was there.
18 And so before I had gone to my mom’s,
19 Ronald, Dieter, Michael had filled my head that
20 there was reporters all over the place, and the
21 killers were, you know, every place I was. I really
22 believed them.
23 And so when I got my to mom’s and saw the
24 table filled, you know, I thought they were telling
25 the truth.
26 Q. Hold on. Now, the table was filled with
27 what, documents?
28 A. Yeah. 6105
1 Q. What kind of documents?
2 A. Letters. Different letters making offers,
3 making — for a story, interviews.
4 Q. With you?
5 A. With the children, with me, or both.
6 Q. All right. Did anybody actually call and
7 contact — and talk to you while you were there?
8 A. The phone was ringing like crazy, so I would
9 pick it up and pretend it wasn’t me, you know, just
10 in case it was one of my parents’ family members,
11 because my mother’s mother has Alzheimer’s, so my
12 mom and her sister, or a combination, they take care
13 of her, so, you know —
14 Q. All right. Did you have an opportunity to
15 look at any of those documents?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. All right. And I think that you said that
18 there were offers amongst them?
19 A. Yes. Yes, there were.
20 Q. Offers for money?
21 A. Money, cars, vacations. Just you name it.
22 Q. Any of them contain dollar amounts?
23 A. Yes, they did.
24 Q. How much?
25 A. One was 100,000 cash.
26 Q. To do what?
27 A. To give a story about Gavin.
28 Q. All right. Did you assume that it was a 6106
1 story about Gavin with regards to Michael Jackson?
2 A. Yeah. They were very clear on what they
3 wanted. There was — the only people that were
4 vague was those two reporters way in the beginning.
5 Q. Okay. But these offers dealt —
6 A. They were very clear.
7 Q. In other words —
8 A. And some were just, you know, “Basically we
9 want to talk,” that’s all. Not all of them. Some
10 of them were just, “I want to talk.” That’s all.
11 Q. Did you call any of these reporters?
12 A. No, I didn’t.
13 Q. Did you have a telephone conversation with
14 any of these reporters?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did you communicate —
17 A. Other than the one that said Gavin and all
18 that stuff.
19 Q. I understand. Did you communicate with any
20 reporters to the extent of telling them that you
21 were willing to do a story —
22 A. No.
23 Q. — and accept payment?
24 A. Huh-uh, huh-uh.
25 Q. Did you accept payment from any reporter?
26 A. No.
27 Q. Have you given a story to any reporter?
28 A. No. 6107
1 Q. And to this day have you?
2 A. Till this day.
3 Q. Do you have any arrangement to do a story at
4 some time in the future?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Do you intend to give a story?
7 A. Huh-uh.
8 THE COURT: Is it time for a break?
9 MR. ZONEN: I believe so.
10 THE COURT: Let’s take one.
11 (Recess taken.)
After returning from recess, Zonen asked Janet to elaborate on the phone calls that she received from Frank Cascio and Michael Jackson, in which they allegedly begged her to return to Neverland to shoot the rebuttal video. Janet testified that they told her that the media was evil, and as she continued in her testimony, she looked towards the reporters sitting in the back of the courtroom, and told them that they were now “good guys”! This is yet another example of her erratic behavior!
12 THE COURT: Go ahead.
13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, I’ve been asking
14 you about a series of phone calls that —
15 THE BAILIFF: Turn on the microphone, please.
16 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Miss Arvizo, I’ve been asking
17 you about a series of telephone calls that you
18 received from Frank, and I asked you, I believe, if
19 anybody else had called you about this same issue.
20 Your answer was what?
21 A. About —
22 Q. About this matter of returning back to
24 A. Yeah, Michael.
25 Q. And, okay, anybody else beyond that?
26 A. Beyond Frank?
27 Q. Yes.
28 A. No. 6108
1 Q. Did he ever talk about any other matter
2 other than that issue, the danger to the children
3 returning to Neverland —
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. — and the rebuttal?
6 A. Yeah. And also, you know, about the media,
7 that they were all bad people. And, you know,
8 they — they made me believe that.
9 (To the audience) I think different of you
10 guys now. That — that’s what they made me believe
11 about you guys, but, you know, you guys are
12 basically good guys, too. You guys are the good
13 side. It’s okay.
14 Q. Miss Arvizo, at some point in time, did you
15 have an opportunity to listen to a tape-recording of
16 one of those telephone calls?
17 A. Yes, I did. Yes.
18 Q. Were you aware that one of those telephone
19 calls was actually tape-recorded?
20 A. No, I wasn’t aware.
21 Q. Do you recall who it was who played that
22 tape-recording for you?
23 A. The D.A.’s Office at the grand jury.
24 Q. All right. Was it just prior to the grand
25 jury that you heard it for the first time?
26 A. It was right prior to the grand jury.
27 Q. All right. And was it played during the
28 grand jury? 6109
1 A. It was played during the grand jury.
2 Q. And you had an opportunity at that time to
3 listen to that tape-recording in its entirety, did
4 you not?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. All right. Do you remember what specific
7 phone call that was?
8 A. It wasn’t one specific phone call. It was
9 many conversations, and the masters of choreography
10 blended it all into one tape.
11 Q. I want you to just answer the question that
12 I ask you, all right?
13 It was more than one telephone call; is that
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. How do you know that?
17 A. Because I’m the one talking.
18 Q. You simply remember that it was —
19 A. That, and also the key thing such as, you
20 know, my being at my mom’s, being at Jay’s, there’s
21 a difference. My children all not being there, and
22 then Gavin being there. Just different little
23 clues. Since I was the one talking, I knew.
24 And also, one key thing. The original phone
25 number that — that Frank had given me was very
26 different than the conversation that ended up being
27 on the tape. And that — that number was actually
28 towards more over here rather than in the beginning. 6110
1 Q. I’m not certain I understood that. There
2 was —
3 A. There were many conversations blended onto
4 one tape and made as if it was only one
5 conversation. So you’re going to hear a series of
6 different conversations all blended into one.
7 Q. You said there was a phone number that Frank
8 gave you. What did that mean?
9 A. That phone number, the 201 number, was not
10 the one that was originally given to you, it was a
11 different number, that’s why I know.
12 Q. 201 being the area code?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Did you dial that number to talk to Frank?
15 A. No. Not at that time.
16 Q. At any time during this period while you
17 were in Los Angeles, before returning to Neverland?
18 A. Okay. Before returning to Neverland, I’m
19 seeing — I’m being generous. Maybe if — maybe
20 less than three, less than five. And I —
21 Q. Less than three, less than five what?
22 A. Of if I ever returned a phone call.
23 Q. You think you might have returned —
24 A. I may. I may.
25 Q. You might have returned a phone call to him?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. And perhaps as many as three or five?
28 A. And I’m guessing one. 6111
1 Q. Do you have —
2 A. But, yeah — after.
3 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of ever
4 returning a phone call to him?
5 A. I don’t remember. It was — because he was
6 calling so much, there was no need for me to return
7 a phone call —
8 Q. All right.
9 A. — at that period.
10 Q. Was he leaving either voice mail messages or
11 answer phone messages when he called?
12 A. At that time, I was picking up the call, and
13 there was also some phone messages.
14 Q. Did you — can you give us a sense of how
15 many conversations you were actually having with
16 Frank in any given day?
17 A. With Frank? Okay. On the — oh, God, no, I
19 Q. Was the subject of the video, doing the
20 rebuttal, was that something that was frequently
21 discussed in those phone calls?
22 A. This is when he was pulling me back in.
Next, Zonen played portions of the recorded phone calls between Frank Cascio and Janet Arvizo to the jury, and asked Janet about her opinion of Frank, after hearing the phone calls again. She stated that she agreed to return to Neverland after Frank told her that “the Germans” (Ronald Konitzer and Dieter Weisner) had been fired by Jackson for “mistreating” her and her kids:
23 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we have marked — we
24 have marked Exhibit No. 809 as a tape. Actually,
25 it’s on the form of a CD that we would like to play
26 at this time.
27 (Whereupon, a CD, Plaintiff’s Exhibit
28 No. 809, was played for the Court and jury.) 6112
1 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, we have a
2 transcript, and we will furnish a copy of that
3 transcript tomorrow morning.
4 BAILIFF CORTEZ: The microphone, sir.
5 THE COURT: Again.
6 MR. ZONEN: We have a transcript of that
7 tape as well. We will furnish the Court a copy of
8 that transcript as a separate exhibit tomorrow
10 THE COURT: All right.
11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Ms. Arvizo, you’ve now
12 listened to this tape. Is this, in fact, the same
13 tape that you previously listened to?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you have listened to this tape as well
16 during the course of the grand jury hearings?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You believe that this is a compilation of a
19 few telephone calls?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What were your feelings about Frank at the
22 time of these phone calls? What did you think of
24 A. Well, I — I thought he was a good guy. And
25 he ended up being the worst one out of all of them.
26 Q. At the time of these telephone calls, you
27 had trust in him?
28 A. Yes, because he was repeating the same 6113
1 things. Not identical, but he was repeating the
2 same things that Michael had told me in the Miami
3 thing; that we were family. He had said that family
4 never leaves family behind.
5 Q. Did you believe that to be the case?
6 A. I did. I believed him.
7 Q. Michael Jackson you had only met on one
8 previous occasion?
9 A. That’s right. But because he was going — I
10 knew violence, and so when he presented to me that
11 there was a violence to my son and my kids, I
12 thought, you know, what a nice guy.
13 Q. Did you believe Frank with regards to the
14 things that he told you in these telephone calls?
15 A. I’m sorry, what did you say?
16 Q. Did you believe Frank’s representations to
17 you during the course of these phone calls?
18 A. Yeah, I did. I did.
19 Q. Did you believe that you would be sheltered
20 from the Germans if you returned?
21 A. No, I didn’t return until he told me that
22 they were fired. I believed everything he said.
23 Q. What did he tell you specifically about the
25 A. That Michael had them fired. He found out
26 how they were treating the kids and me, so that
27 Michael fired them.
28 Q. He asked you on a few occasions during these 6114
1 telephone calls if it would be okay to post a
2 24-hour guard outside your home.
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Is that the case?
5 A. And I said no.
6 Q. Did you tell him no repeatedly?
7 A. Yes. There was many conversations.
8 Q. Did you ever have a guard posted outside
9 your house?
10 A. Never.
11 Q. Why did you turn that offer down?
12 A. Because I didn’t want my parents to know. I
13 had always hidden everything from my parents.
14 Q. You didn’t want your parents to know what?
15 A. Because I didn’t want them to get scared,
16 because they’re older. I’ve never told my parents
17 about anything. I mean, they barely know now many
19 Q. All right. Now, I think you said that there
20 was never a guard that came; is that true?
21 A. That’s right.
22 Q. When did you decide to return back to
24 A. When — when Frank convinced me.
25 Q. In the tape, he mentions a couple times
26 about doing a video. Is that the rebuttal video
27 that you referred to?
28 A. Yes. And every time I said no. 6115
1 Q. On one occasion in here, you do tell him
2 that you’d be willing to do that, do you not?
3 A. Yeah, as long as it’s not a script, because
4 the Germans wanted to me to say exactly what they
6 Q. Were you willing to say something at that
7 time that was positive —
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. — about Michael Jackson?
10 A. I was.
11 Q. At that time, did you have anything to say
12 about Michael Jackson that was negative?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did you tell him you’d be willing to do
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You have references in this interview, or,
18 excuse me, conversation or conversations about
19 Michael Jackson and Frank being family.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What was that about?
22 A. Because I believed him.
23 Q. I’m sorry?
24 A. I believed him.
25 Q. And Frank was also making those
26 representations to you?
27 A. Yes. I wanted friends so bad.
28 Q. You wanted friends? 6116
1 A. I did.
2 Q. And why is that?
3 A. Because David always told me nobody loved
5 Q. You had talked about David with Frank on
6 these conversations, did you not?
7 A. Yes, I did.
Janet shot off at the mouth again and gave a rambling answer about trying to help Jackson by gathering the numerous legal documents that she had in her possession that pertained to her legal battles with David Arvizo, and she directed these answers at Jackson. She was not asked about this, but instead she brought up this issue on her own, and took Zonen by surprise!
8 Q. Did you tell him everything that had
9 happened with regards to —
10 A. He already had known. I was just gathering.
11 (To the defendant) I was still trying to help
13 I was gathering paperwork to prove of David
14 committing these crimes on me and my kids and my
16 Q. You were gathering up paperwork for what
18 A. To give it to you.
19 Q. You need to address the question only.
20 A. Michael.
21 Q. Why were you gathering up paperwork for Mr.
23 A. Because David was interview after interview
24 and after interview; so they could know that he’s a
26 Q. All right. You need to explain this to me.
27 David is David Arvizo —
28 A. Yes. 6117
1 Q. — your former husband?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You say he gave interview after interview
4 after interview?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. With whom?
7 A. With different reporters. This is what
8 Ronald and Dieter had told me.
9 Q. And somebody had spoken to you about the
10 interviews that David Arvizo is doing?
11 A. Ronald and Dieter did at Neverland.
12 Q. And what did they say to you about those
14 A. That David was talking bad stuff about me
15 and the children.
16 Q. About you and the children?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. All right.
19 A. And about Michael.
20 Q. Did somebody ask you to gather up paperwork
21 about David?
22 A. No, I was just trying to help.
23 Q. And why did you gather up paperwork for them
24 about David?
25 A. Just the paperwork, the restraining orders,
26 everything that the court had given me.
27 Q. What was your purpose for doing that?
28 A. Well, so that we can have proof that this – 6118
1 everything that this man is saying from his mouth is
2 untrue. David.
After that debacle, Zonen went back to his original line of questioning, and asked Janet about her return to Neverland, and interview with Bradley Miller. Janet stated that she was told by Frank Cascio that she needed to talk to Miller because he had seen David Arvizo talking to “the killers”, and this motivated her to agree to do the interview. That phrase was “burned in her brain”!
3 Q. What time was it during the day or evening
4 that Jesus Salas drove you back to your parents’
6 A. I think — I don’t know. Maybe about one-
7 something a.m.
8 Q. It was in the early morning hours?
9 A. Yes. About 1:15.
10 Q. Did you talk with Michael Jackson before
11 being driven back to your parents’ house?
12 A. No.
13 Q. During the entire time that you were in Los
14 Angeles, either at your parents’ house or at Jay
15 Jackson’s residence, were the phone calls continuous
16 during that time?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What finally was it that caused you to
19 decide to return to Neverland?
20 A. When Frank had said that Michael had fired
21 the Germans.
22 Q. Was there an understanding about whether or
23 not you would be doing a video once you got back?
24 A. No.
25 Q. You hadn’t talked about that?
26 A. No. At that point, no. It was just —
27 Q. What was your belief about whether or not
28 you would be doing a video? 6119
1 A. There was — there was none. He had said
2 that I didn’t have to do it after all.
3 Q. Did you express to him some reservations
4 about doing it?
5 A. No, he — I had told him that the Germans
6 wanted to dictate exactly what we wanted to say, so
7 I was — I told him no.
8 And so afterwards, towards when — the end,
9 Frank had said that, okay, that I didn’t have to do
10 it at all, me and the kids.
11 Q. Did you go back to Neverland?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. Do you know approximately what time of the
14 day or evening it was?
15 A. The daytime. Gary came for us.
16 Q. Before going back to Neverland, did you have
17 an interview?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. With whom?
20 A. With Brad Miller.
21 Q. Did you know who Brad Miller was?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Had you ever seen him before?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Was it prearranged that you would have an
26 interview with him?
27 A. Yes. Yes.
28 Q. And who had arranged that? 6120
1 A. Frank.
2 Q. Now, you were still in Los Angeles; is that
4 A. Yes. In Jay’s apartment.
5 Q. And how long prior to that interview was it
6 that you had arranged it or Frank had arranged it
7 with you?
8 A. Hours.
9 Q. So it was the same day?
10 A. Same day.
11 Q. Did he tell you the purpose for this
13 A. Yeah. He had called me like in a state of
14 panic, and he was telling me, “Quick, Janet, quick.
15 We need you to talk to Bradley Miller because he’s a
16 P.I., and he just saw” — “he just saw David make
17 contact with the killers.”
18 And then he’s — he told me about how
19 important it is to say nice things about Michael and
20 that Michael was going to protect me and the kids.
21 Q. Did you believe it?
22 A. I believed it.
23 Q. Did you feel the kids were in danger at that
25 A. Yes, I did.
26 Q. Why did you agree to have an interview with
27 Brad Miller?
28 A. Because I believed him. 6121
1 Q. At which location was this interview?
2 A. In Jay’s apartment.
3 Q. And did he arrive by himself, Mr. Miller?
4 A. Yes, he did.
5 Q. Did he identify himself to you?
6 A. Yes, he did. Michael’s P.I.
7 Q. He told you he was a P.I.?
8 A. Michael’s P.I.
9 Q. You’ve had an opportunity to listen to a
10 tape-recording of that interview, have you not?
11 A. Yes, I have.
12 Q. Do you recall at some point during the
13 course of that interview him turning the tape off?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you know why?
16 A. I had walked in for that second, and then I
17 had walked back out right after he had turned it
18 back on, and he said that — that — here’s that
19 phrase, to say nice things about Michael, because
20 that would appease the killers. That phrase is
21 burned in my brain.
22 Q. And were you in the room during the entirety
23 of that interview?
24 A. No. I kept coming in and out, because Jay
25 in the beginning, he was kind of like very — now
26 he’s softened up, but before, he was very military,
27 very — everything had — everything was organized,
28 everything was — his things were his things. 6122
1 And so I noticed that he was kind of getting
2 a little upset, because he was walking back from
3 the — from the living room where we were at into
4 his bedroom, so I was kind of nervous that he was
5 getting upset, so —
6 Q. So you were checking on him periodically?
7 A. Yes. Yes.
8 Q. Do you know how long that interview went?
9 A. It — I since have seen the transcript to
10 it, and it shows an ending time, and the ending time
11 is inaccurate. It’s incorrect.
12 Q. What do you think is the length of that
14 A. The length of the interview from when he was
15 there is — it’s about an hour, a little over an
16 hour, but the time that it has on the transcript
17 doesn’t reflect that.
18 Q. Did Mr. Miller explain to you why he was
20 A. Yes. For what Frank had said. The same
22 Q. Did he give you any instruction as to what
23 to say before turning on the tape-recorder?
24 A. Yeah, he fed us. Sometimes we would rewind,
25 stop, rewind, stop. And so he was feeding us, but
26 everything I said, I said it with my heart.
27 Q. All right. And you said nice things about
28 Mr. Jackson, did you not? 6123
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. And did you believe those things at that
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. You would have said those things even if he
6 hadn’t rewound the tape-recorder?
7 A. That’s right.
8 Q. Did you then go back to Neverland?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Did Mr. Miller talk to you about going back
11 to Neverland?
12 A. No, he didn’t.
Here’s more testimony about her return to Neverland; Janet testified that when she returned and saw both Dieter and Ronald, she immediately suspected that Frank Cascio had lied to her, and she concocted a story of having an emergency and wanting to leave Neverland with her kids. She claimed to have told that story to Dieter and Ronald, but they told her that the kids must stay at Neverland. She was returned to Los Angeles by bodyguard Chris Carter, who we’ll be hearing a lot more about later on in this trial:
13 Q. Who was it who made the arrangements for you
14 to return to Neverland?
15 A. Frank.
16 Q. Do you know if that was the next day?
17 A. That was the next day.
18 Q. When you got back to Neverland, what did you
20 A. And another thing, too, that I seen, which I
21 wasn’t that correct on, I noticed that there is —
22 the only way I can know this is because when Chris
23 Carter brought me back, immediately the phone — the
24 phone stuff was subpoenaed, so on the day that I
25 used Chris Carter’s phone is the day that —
26 Q. We’re jumping ahead of ourselves.
27 A. Well, okay. I feel the date may be
28 incorrect also. But the only reason is because I 6124
1 found out afterwards of that phone call.
2 Q. We’re going to get there. We’re going to
3 get there.
4 You’re back in Los Angeles. Who is it who
5 brought you back to Neverland?
6 A. Gary Hearn.
7 Q. Did you go with your children?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Do you know what time it is, approximately,
10 that you arrived at Neverland?
11 A. I think it was the afternoon.
12 Q. What did you see when you got there?
13 A. Ronald and Dieter.
14 Q. Did that surprise you?
15 A. Minutes — minutes into being inside the
17 Q. Which house?
18 A. Michael’s house.
19 Q. Did you go to his house soon after arriving
20 at Neverland?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you see if Michael Jackson was there?
23 A. Yes. I saw him. He went straight to my
25 Q. And where did your kids go?
26 A. With him to his office.
27 Q. All three of your kids?
28 A. Yes. And then I saw Davellin, and then she 6125
1 went back in. But they were in his office.
2 Q. Did you speak with Mr. Jackson at the time
3 that you arrived?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Did you see the two Germans, Dieter and
6 Ronald, immediately?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What did you do when you saw them?
9 A. I knew now that Frank had been lying to me
10 the whole entire time.
11 Q. What did you do when you saw them?
12 A. I told them that I had an emergency and I
13 have to go back home, me and the kids have to go
14 back home.
15 Q. And who did you say that to?
16 A. I said it to Ronald and I said it to Dieter.
17 Q. What did they say?
18 A. They said no, I couldn’t; that the kids have
19 to stay. If I have an emergency, I can go, but the
20 kids had to stay. And that at this point is when
21 they had pointed out to me that my outside phone
22 calls are being monitored, that I’m being watched,
23 listened to, and they can make my kids disappear.
24 Q. Was this the first time —
25 A. And that anybody — anybody I told — and at
26 this time I’m like, what am I going to tell? That
27 we’re walking across the grass? You know, what am I
28 going to tell? And that anybody that I told, their 6126
1 life was going to be in danger.
2 Q. Did you make a decision at that time as to
3 whether you would leave?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What was that decision?
6 A. Because that’s the only way I could get out,
7 because the other time it took — it took a long
8 process for me to leave. And this time, Jesus had
9 told me he couldn’t help me.
10 Q. What was that decision that you made? To
12 A. To leave.
13 Q. To leave, all right. Did you speak to
14 anybody else other than Ronald and Dieter about
16 A. Yeah, well, Jesus, I asked him for help. We
17 went from the — from the video place, tried to
18 talk — I tried to talk secret with him in Spanish
19 because I was talking to him in English and that’s
20 when Dieter had walked up, and then I — and then I
21 tried to talk to him in Spanish.
22 And we went to the train station, and we
23 went up — up to the — way up on the top, and I
24 tried to talk to him, plead for him to help me, and
25 he said he couldn’t help me anymore, because when I
26 had — when I had left, the whole house turned into
28 Q. Did you ask him specifically to take you 6127
1 back to Los Angeles?
2 A. Yes, I did. Me and the kids.
3 Q. He told you no? What did he tell you?
4 A. That he couldn’t; that to ask Chris for
5 help, because he doesn’t know, and — and I found
6 out that everybody was on a need-to-know basis; that
7 not unless they stumbled upon the problem or they
8 were pulled into it, other than that, everybody was
10 Q. Okay. All right. Did you go talk to Mr.
12 A. Well, what happened was, when — I was going
13 to look for him, but I didn’t have to — have to
14 look for him, because I happened to see him, so —
15 and that was Jesus’s advice.
16 Q. Did you know Chris Carter from a prior
18 A. Yes, from when I was there. He’s Michael’s
19 personal bodyguard.
20 Q. Was he somebody who had been nice to you in
21 the past?
22 A. Yes, he was.
23 Q. Did you go up and ask him if you could
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Did you ask him if your children could as
28 A. I did mention it to him, but that’s when I 6128
1 seen the Germans again, so I completely, you know,
2 “pshooo,” played it off; it was just an emergency.
3 Q. Did he say he would take you?
4 A. Yes, he did.
5 Q. And did you leave?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. Did you leave with your children still at
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Why did you do that?
11 A. Because I did. Because of the reasons that
12 I just told you.
13 Q. Now, you mentioned earlier that in the drive
14 back to Los Angeles, you used Mr. Carter’s cell
16 A. Over and over. And I used the phone inside
17 your car.
18 Q. Who were you calling?
19 A. Calling Jay over and over. But — and I was
20 praying in the car. And —
21 Q. Were you scared?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What were you worried about?
24 A. That they were going to make true on
25 everything that they had said.
26 Q. Were you able to reach Jay on the telephone?
27 A. No.
28 Q. Where did Mr. Carter take you? 6129
1 A. To Jay’s.
2 Q. And did he drop you off there?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you recall at approximately what time you
6 A. Oh, I don’t know, but that — that telephone
7 call is — you could see it on the subpoenaed phone
9 Q. Whatever time that is would be the time that
10 you were in the vehicle?
11 A. That’s the time. That’s the time.
During her trip to LA, she made several phone calls to Jay Jackson, and told him about Frank’s desire to have the Arvizo family shipped to Brazil:
12 Q. Do you remember how many phone calls you
13 made to Jay during that time?
14 A. A lot of them.
15 Q. At one time during the course of this phone
16 conversation or conversations that we just listened
17 to, Frank mentions a trip, going someplace; says
18 you’ll be dancing every night. Do you remember that
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. Did you have more than one conversation with
22 Frank about going someplace?
23 A. Yeah. They wanted us to leave the country.
24 Q. Did they tell you where they wanted you to
26 A. Well, this is in Neverland, when I — and I
27 found out that they were monitoring my phone calls
28 inside Neverland. They had first mentioned Austria. 6130
1 And so I had mentioned it to — to Jay, I think it
2 was Jay, over the phone, and then they came in
3 hollering, because nobody was supposed to know.
4 Then they found out that I had — that I
5 knew Spanish and was a Spanish-speaking country, and
6 the end result was Brazil, so I knew that they
7 wanted me out of the country since then.
8 Q. All right. They were talking about going to
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. They’d actually begun that conversation
12 prior to Jesus taking you out?
13 A. Prior to Jesus.
14 Q. And during the phone calls that you had with
15 Frank, did he mention that?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did he mention it more than once?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did he mention it often?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did he ever mention locations other than
23 A. No. It ended up being Brazil.
24 Q. Did he tell you why he wanted you to go to
26 A. At first — everything — everything
27 evolved. At first, it was to keep me and my
28 children safe from the killers. Then — then it 6131
1 just evolved into that, into — and one of the
2 maximum points was until they had damage-controlled
3 everything for you.
4 Q. No, you need to address us, okay?
5 A. I mean for Michael. And it escalated to
6 that there was no definite time of return, until
7 they fixed everything for you, for Michael.
Upon her return to Jay’s residence, she learned that the Department of Child and Family Services wanted to interview her and her children, due to the fact that two complaints had been filed (one by Gavin’s principal, and the other by Dr. Carole Lieberman), and she was told by Frank that she and her family had to shoot the rebuttal video before meeting with the DCFS social workers:
8 Q. Now, at some time after you came back to
9 Jay’s residence, at some point around that time, did
10 you become aware of the fact that the Department of
11 Child & Family Services wanted to talk with you?
12 A. Immediately.
13 Q. Do you remember if that was before or after
14 you went back to Neverland?
15 A. When Chris Carter brought me back,
16 immediately like that, so then I said yes, I’m going
17 to use this as an excuse to get my children out;
18 that I need them for that.
19 Oh, they went into high gear now, more.
20 Q. Hold on. We’ll get there. We’ll get there,
22 Now, who was it who called you from the
23 Department of Child & Family Services?
24 A. On the phone I spoke to three ladies at
25 three different times, because I was trying to meet
26 with the Child Protective Services by myself, in
27 their office, because I figured — because I
28 believed what the Germans had said. So I figured, 6132
1 you know what? Maybe inside their office, you know,
2 it’s going to be safe to express to them that my
3 children are still there and they’re not letting
4 them out.
5 Q. Did you ask somebody among them if you could
6 interview with them at the office?
7 A. Yes, and they said no. They were not
9 Q. Who is “they”?
10 A. Karen Walker. LaVerne. And I think — I
11 don’t know whether it’s Jackie or Yvonne. She goes
12 by two —
13 Q. There were two people that you had spoken
15 A. Three.
16 Q. All on the telephone?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Same conversation or different
20 A. Different conversations, because I couldn’t
21 make them aware over the phone that – because I
22 believed that my phone calls were being monitored –
23 that they were over there.
24 Q. Did you know why they wanted to meet with
26 A. No.
27 Q. Did they tell you why?
28 A. No. 6133
1 Q. Did they tell you whether or not it had
2 something to do with Michael Jackson?
3 A. No. They said that it — that they would
4 let me know in the meeting.
5 Q. All right. Did —
6 A. They didn’t let me know of any allegations
7 till the meeting.
8 Q. Did not discuss this video, the “Living with
9 Michael Jackson”?
10 A. Nothing.
11 Q. Were you aware, prior to your meeting with
12 Child Protective Services or, as they call it, their
13 Department of Child Family Services, whether or not
14 that meeting had something to do with this
15 documentary “Living with Michael Jackson”?
16 A. Not until they had the actual meeting.
17 Q. Okay. Now, did you tell anybody at
18 Neverland about the fact that you’d been contacted
19 by representatives of the Department of Child &
20 Family Services?
21 A. Yes. I had called the administration
22 office. I had called — I had called — I had
23 called Jesus. Jesus did not return a — not a
24 single phone call of mine. And the administration
25 offices, their business offices did not return any
26 of my phone calls. And then so there was contact
27 made between Frank and me.
28 Q. All right. Now, Frank then called you back? 6134
1 A. Yes. I don’t know whether he called — I
2 can’t remember this fact, but maybe by the phone
3 records you can.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. I don’t know whether they told him to call
6 me or I called him. I don’t know. But at that
7 point I was completely desperate.
8 Q. Did you — did they — by “they” I mean the
9 people from Child — the Department of Child Family
10 Services, DCFS, did they request of you to have your
11 children present during that interview?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did they tell you that that was necessary?
14 A. Yes; that they have to see them themself.
15 Q. All right. Did you communicate that to Frank?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you tell anybody else that; that you
18 needed to have the children there?
19 A. No, that’s all. My one conversation was now
20 only with Frank.
21 Q. All right. And tell me about the
22 conversation that you had with Frank about this
23 interview with DCFS?
24 A. I’m sorry, did you say —
25 Q. Did you have a conversation in particular
26 with Frank?
27 A. No, not “a.” Many.
28 Q. Many, all right. Do you remember any of 6135
1 these conversations?
2 A. Yeah. That — I mean, my kids, because of
3 this meeting.
4 Q. What was Frank telling you during that time?
5 A. At first, it was no, unless I do the video.
6 Then it evolved into — it evolved into more.
7 Q. Well, what more? I mean, what specifically
8 was he telling you about the video and the children?
9 A. Well, it evolved. Right before the video,
10 it evolved into that if I did a good job, I wouldn’t
11 have to leave the country.
12 Q. At some point in time did you agree to do a
14 A. Yes, I did.
15 Q. Did somebody say to you that the video
16 needed to be done before the interview?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Who was that?
19 A. Frank.
20 Q. What specifically did he tell you about that?
21 A. That I had to do it.
22 Q. You had to do it before?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. Now —
25 A. The meeting could not take place prior to
26 the video. The video had to take place prior to the
28 Q. Do you have a recollection at this time of 6136
1 the dates that these particular events —
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. In other words, if I were to ask you
4 specifically the date of the initial phone call from
5 the Department of Child Family Services.
6 A. Oh, no, that I wouldn’t be able to tell you.
7 I need your help on the phone records.
8 Q. Do you know the date?
9 A. But I know it was like that, immediately.
10 Q. Immediately after you returned?
11 A. Yes, with Chris Carter.
12 Q. Do you know the date that was scheduled for
13 the interview?
14 A. Yes, that I do. The 20th.
15 Q. And what day was that? The 20th?
16 A. The 20th. I —
17 Q. And do you know what day of the week that is?
18 A. I think that was a Thursday. I think. I
19 think so. I — I think so. Thursday and the 20th
20 go together in my mind.
21 MR. ZONEN: If the Court will once again
22 take judicial notice that the 20th — I’m sorry, I
23 gave you my calendar. I believe it is a Thursday,
24 but could the Court check and perhaps we could take
25 notice of that.
26 THE COURT: Thursday is the 20th.
27 MR. ZONEN: It is a Thursday, then.
28 MR. MESEREAU: May I just see it for a second? 6137
1 MR. ZONEN: He doubts you?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Thursday is the 20th. Thank
3 you. So stipulated.
4 THE COURT: All right. Is this a good place
5 to stop?
6 MR. ZONEN: Yes, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Is it time to stop?
8 Okay. We’ll stop. See you tomorrow morning
9 at 8:30. Remember the admonitions.
10 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)
That end’s this day’s testimony, and my summary of Janet’s testimony will continue in the next post.
Did any of you notice that Mesereau hardly raised any objections to anything Janet said? This was by no accident; he knew that the more she talked, the more rope she was giving herself to hang herself with! He mentioned this strategy during a speech to the Harvard Law School on November 29th, 2005:
Now, I was criticized for over-trying my case. One night I was channel surfing, and here’s somebody, frankly – I think he was in Boston – saying “I think he’s over-trying his case!” The guy never set foot in the courtroom or saw anything. But there I was over-trying my case. Well, I assume that he meant was “Why would he have a witness on this long?” Because there were witnesses that the prosecutors were relying on that I truly concluded that the longer they’re up, the worse it’s gonna be. Even if you’re talking about small stuff, stuff that doesn’t seem consequential, that’s not the point. The point is let the jury look into their heart and soul. Let them see who this person is, and let them see what a liar and a fraud they are. Keep ‘em up. Keep ‘em up. Keep ‘em up.